Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't think the discussion revolves around cutting them, but rather not adding anymore (At least that's how it is for me.).

Though I personally wished they never added Corrin, especially when it was before the game starring him came out. It was extremely jarring considering the line up surrounding him (Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta).

To be honest, I don’t think it’s something to even worry about.

Not only do I think the DLC will be entirely 3rd party (unless they decide to do an additional pass) but that the next Smash won’t be out for...quite some time, like several years. The concept of adding more Fire Emblem is basically so far off that I don’t even think it’s something to be concerned with.

 

[KMDP]

You can say breasts, you know.

Though maybe it's better if you don't, there's no saying what will cause the conversation in here to go out of rails

I could say Breasts, but that wouldn't have gotten across what I meant. Rouge also has a hourglass figure (weird as that is for an anthropomorphic bat to have, but whatever).

Since this is a Sonic thread now: Sonic Team needs to stop treating writing like an afterthought. Seriously. I'm not a "good old days" guy, but I want to see Sonic being written like in Storybook games or Unleashed again.

They only treat writing as an afterthought because:

Sonic 1 and 2 had very little story.
Sonic '06 and it's convoluted mess of a story will forever loom over Sonic Team's collective heads.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I think we figured that part out when one of the best Sonic games to ever come out wasn't even made by them. At least they'll always have the music to fall back on, even the bad Sonic games tend to have great soundtracks.

Sonic Mania was literally stuff Sonic Team did 20 years ago with 4 new stages that came straight out of the building blocks they left behind lol

 

[Idon]

I don't think the discussion revolves around cutting them, but rather not adding anymore (At least that's how it is for me.).

Though I personally wished they never added Corrin, especially when it was before the game starring him came out. It was extremely jarring considering the line up surrounding him (Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta).

I'm starting to think people don't realize how much of a resource drain pulling a "Everyone is Here" is.

 

[KMDP]

Sonic Mania was literally stuff Sonic Team did 20 years ago with 4 new stages that came straight out of the building blocks they left behind lol

That's a half-truth.

Only one of the new stages is based on an old concept: Mirage Saloon, based on the cut Desert stages from Sonic 2 and CD.

Even then, it's only the concept, and mostly new regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm starting to think people don't realize how much of a resource drain pulling a "Everyone is Here" is.

Ya didn't Smash ultimate go into development in 2015 making it like the 3rd switch title that went into development and it just got released a month ago

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I wouldn’t cut any of the Fire Emblem characters, mainly because each of them are fun to play. If they are fun to play, I don’t care about the representation being uneven, or whatever it is people care about with that. I play it because it’s a video game, and I play video games to have fun. I do not play them to compare how cool my favorite series is to the ones I don’t like, or stare at the screen to say, “Look at how many characters X series has! It’s a work of art!”

Games are art, but the fact that people consider certain changes to the roster based on what a series “deserves” or what seems like “good representation” shows how unimaginative certain sects of the fanbase can be. People hate on the Fire Emblem characters, and most of the hatred comes from the fact that they, these fans, didn’t get who they wanted. Sure, they may have a lot of similar moves. But they’re fun and their movesets work well. Not to mention they all play different...I don’t see the problem.

Sorry not sorry, but I enjoy pretty much every single Fire Emblem character in the game. I hate the cut discussion, but all I will say is that if some fans had their way, the roster would be a trash heap.

Add in the fact that roughly half of them were added to pad out the roster and weren’t picked over “insert character here”, and there really isn’t a reason to get cut happy with them.

Oh, and don’t cut Ike. Ike is the best lord, hands down.

You speak like an educated genius

I hear/read Sonic Forces and I am reminded of this:

burn it to the ground

 

[Darkmoone1]

I'm starting to think people don't realize how much of a resource drain pulling a "Everyone is Here" is.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

 

[Zinith]

I hear/read Sonic Forces and I am reminded of this:

I think I'd prefer to play Sonic Dream Collection 100 times over hearing that one more time

 

[Captain Shwampy]

That's a half-truth.

Only one of the new stages is based on an old concept: Mirage Saloon, based on the cut Desert stages from Sonic 2 and CD.

Even then, it's only the concept, and mostly new regardless.

They're new but its still stuff they learned from ST 20 years ago

either way to give whitehead all credit for mania when most of it wasnt original work is getting annoying at this point

 

[Idon]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I'm saying this "no cut" mentality takes up a lot of dev time and money that probably comes at the expense of new characters, stages, and/or gamemodes.

Ya didn't Smash ultimate go into development in 2015 making it like the 3rd switch title that went into development and it just got released a month ago

I've no idea where SSBU is on the order of Switch games developed, but development started 2016.
Also, not sure what you're saying.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

You have to program in 74 fighters opposed to smash4s 58 you have to put in 100+ stages a ton of music 1000+ Spirits put the stupidity long World of light mode together and a lot see where im going with this?

 

[KMDP]

They're new but its still stuff they learned from ST 20 years ago

either way to give whitehead all credit for mania when most of it wasnt original work is getting annoying at this point

You're right.

What Whitehead('s team) can be credited for is the level design (by which I mean layout), while quite a bit of it is made of direct references to the original Sonic games, just as much is brand new design.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Since this is a Sonic thread now: Sonic Team needs to stop treating writing like an afterthought.

Sonic Team needs to just let Whitehead make the games and let the Sonic Boom team write them.

 

[Darkmoone1]

You have to program in 74 fighters opposed to smash4s 58 you have to put in 100+ stages a ton of music 1000+ Spirits put the stupidity long World of light mode together and a lot see where im going with this?

Well that goes without saying. I'm not interested in the discussion of cuts or no cuts because a new game came out just a month ago and there really shouldn't be a discussion revolving around what character should be leaving SSB. Rather, I don't want an existing franchise filled to the brim with characters being overflowed into DLC.

This is why I'm not understanding the discussion. We're in DLC mode, where we should take about what might be added in the next few months and not what might be removed years later.

 

[KMDP]

Sonic Team needs to just let Whitehead make the games and let the Sonic Boom team write them.

No matter how good the writing is for Boom, I'm not sure I'd want Canon Knuckles to be a meathead.

Not saying that's necessarily what they'd do, but... considering the show... you know.

Knuckles is naive (and therefore gullible), not outright stupid, consarnit.

 

[CannonStreak]

Sonic Team needs to just let Whitehead make the games and let the Sonic Boom team write them.

How do you know he could make a 3D game to begin with? Also, how do you know that his 2D style could translate into 3D without problems such as disorientation from running through the loops as compared to how loops are done in Sonic Team's 3D games?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

No matter how good the writing is for Boom, I'm not sure I'd want Canon Knuckles to be a meathead.

Not saying that's necessarily what they'd do, but... considering the show... you know.

Knuckles is naive (and therefore gullible), not outright stupid, consarnit.

You will take Knuckles the Feminist and you will love him always...or else Tails gets it

 

[KMDP]

How do you know he could make a 3D game to begin with? Also, how do you know that his 2D style could translate into 3D without problems such as disorientation from running through the loops as compared to how loops are done in Sonic Team's 3D games?

Well...

The Mania Special Stages exist, and they are in 3D (so he, or at least his team, is clearly capable).

And there are many, many Sonic fan engines (Green Hill Paradise, Sonic Utopia and Project Hero, to name a few) that prove that it can be done.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm just sitting here and thinking about all of the fallen that never made the cut...

Black Knight
Isaac
Krystal
Shadow
Shovel Knight
Skull Kid
Waluigi

The only question remains whether those like Bandana Dee, Dixie, Elma, Rayman, Shantae and such still has a shot assuming Spirits don't deconfirm...

 

[Deleted member]

You will take Knuckles the Feminist and you will love him always....

You should have of left it at this lol

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sonic Team needs to just let Whitehead make the games and let the Sonic Boom team write them.

I dunno, Boom's humour was mostly "Haha, Sonic fans, do you remember this? *kneeslap*" from what I can tell

 

[CannonStreak]

Well...

The Mania Special Stages exist, and they are in 3D (so he's clearly capable).

And there are many, many Sonic fan engines (Green Hill Paradise, Sonic Utopia and Project Hero, to name a few) that prove that it can be done.

Well, speaking of those games, here is something on what those games do wrong.

http://www.tssznews.com/2016/11/05/reasonable-assessment-sonic-can-work-in-3d/#section1

There are clearly some problems here that Sonic Team seems to want to avoid.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well...

The Mania Special Stages exist, and they are in 3D (so he, or at least his team, is clearly capable).

And there are many, many Sonic fan engines (Green Hill Paradise, Sonic Utopia and Project Hero, to name a few) that prove that it can be done.

Sonic Utopia was only a proof of concept and it didn't even have good level design, dunno about the others

 

[Darkmoone1]

I'm just sitting here and thinking about all of the fallen that never made the cut...

Black Knight
Isaac
Krystal
Shadow
Shovel Knight
Skull Kid
Waluigi

The only question remains whether those like Bandana Dee, Dixie, Elma, Rayman, Shantae and such still has a shot assuming Spirits don't deconfirm...

I was a little shocked to find Rayman as a spirit. Not sure how the dealings go with third party characters, but I guess Nintendo wasn't interested in making Rayman into the initial roster? Stings a bit cause that's another character whose games I enjoyed.

 

[Wademan94]

So what exactly is the difference between the Light House and the Pool Room and which one would I be better off starting my Sonic fighting game discussion in?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So what exactly is the difference between the Light House and the Pool Room and which one would I be better off starting my Sonic fighting game discussion in?

Sonic fighting game?

Why not a Sega crossover fighting game instead while your at it?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You should have of left it at this lol

nah, the Tails part must stay. He must be destroyed for speaking sinfully

 

[Cyn]

So what exactly is the difference between the Light House and the Pool Room and which one would I be better off starting my Sonic fighting game discussion in?

Light House. Pool Room is more for off-gaming talk.

 

[Wademan94]

Sonic fighting game?

Why not a Sega crossover fighting game instead while your at it?

Because I focused mostly on Sonic characters with potentially a few guests.

Though to be far I mean I guess the story idea I had would justify a full on Sega crossover.

Light House. Pool Room is more for off-gaming talk.

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member]

You thought the trumpet meme was dead?

Think again!

 

[Icedragonadam]

Don't need to worry about the Piranha Plant code as I just entered it already. Funnily enough it came 2 days after I got the game, so I received it 3 days ago. Now to wait for the plant.

I wonder what Piranha's classic theme will be. One theme I want it to be is him fighting characters no one expected to be in like what the character himself is. So something like:

Stage 1: Ness and Lucas
Stage 2: Snake
Stage 3: Wii Fit Trainer
Stage 4: Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B, & Duck Hunt
Stage 5: Bayonetta
Stage 6: Cloud

Boss: Galleom(Because his final smash is Petey who was a boss in SSE like Galleom, and his return was also unexpected).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Because I focused mostly on Sonic characters with a few guests.

Alright it was just a suggestion.

That and we need more Smash-esque crossover fighting games. We already have Jump Stars granted the gameplay is different and Cartoon Network already did one as well.

Capcom
Disney
Nickelodeon
Sega

All the possibilities.

 

[osby]

I was a little shocked to find Rayman as a spirit. Not sure how the dealings go with third party characters, but I guess Nintendo wasn't interested in making Rayman into the initial roster? Stings a bit cause that's another character whose games I enjoyed.

You know Nintendo doesn't make the game, right?

Also developers weren't interested in making hundreds of characters into initial roster.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sonic fighting game?

Why not a Sega crossover fighting game instead while your at it?

This actually happened.

It's mainly a crossover between Virtua Fighter and Fighting Vipers however, with some other characters from Sega AM2 games as bonuses.

 

[KMDP]

Well, speaking of those games, here is something on what those games do wrong.

http://www.tssznews.com/2016/11/05/reasonable-assessment-sonic-can-work-in-3d/#section1

There are clearly some problems here that Sonic Team seems to want to avoid.

"Speed can’t feel like speed if we never experience slow."

If only Arin Hanson could learn this.

The person writing the article makes a good point that loops, in the 2D plane, was a small set piece that tested your ability to maintain top speed, while loops in the 3D fan games test a completely different skill, keeping the analog stick steady.

The thing about loops is that, in the traditional set-up, they're barely even worth having in a 3D plane, if the loops moved you onto a different platform that you couldn't have reached otherwise (for example, if you enter the loop and come out the other side on the next "floor" up or something), then they'd be worth having.

You could assign something like Skill Points (like in Spyro the Dragon) to getting around loops, but... more pressingly, I think people forget that in Sonic 1, Loops weren't even that common.

They only appeared in Green Hill and Star Light Zone, less than a third of the game.

In 3D Sonic, are they even necessary?

Sonic Utopia was only a proof of concept and it didn't even have good level design, dunno about the others

All of the one's I listed are proof-of-concept games (Project Hero is just a white void with level geometry and test items; it's is sort of like the old Story about Super Mario 64, where the devs dumped Mario into a test stage and fine-tuned him until he felt perfect).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If only Arin Hanson could learn this.

Arin Hanson could learn a lot of things, I don't see why lots of Sonic fans have beef with him when he clearly sucks at video games period

 

[Deleted member]

This actually happened.

It's mainly a crossover between Virtua Fighter and Fighting Vipers however, with some other characters from Sega AM2 games as bonuses.

Thats interesting.......ly Cool!!
New avatar by the way to celebrate my new main

 

[Idon]

The best 3D Sonic game already exists and it's called Mirror's Edge.
(It's not actually like Sonic in anyway, but it's a pretty damn good game regardless)

 

[CannonStreak]

KMDP Maybe loops are necessary, maybe they are not, but they are still a staple of Sonic games. I personally would like it if they gave they player some control over Sonic and characters when they go through the loops, like holding the control stick forward while Sonic runs forward automatically, and letting go of the control stick would cause the characters to fall off, like in Sonic Adventure 2's loops.