Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Iridium]

So, I was watching Umebura SP yesterday, and...wow.

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In top 32, with the players, and that was just top 32. Some dual-maining happened too, but Japan still is the best region for character diversity. It was a pretty good tourney, for the single elimination tradition of the first tourneys.

 

[Pyra]

Combine Villager's and Isabelle's down specials and you get a tree mine that rockets upwards and is also better than Villagers down special

 

[Pokechu]

No one in Mario has deep characterization because that isn't the point of Mario at all. Mario doesn't have deep lore with deep characters that need explanations and motives.

It's a franchise about an italian plumber who jumps on turtles and saves a princess. Luigi only exists so that there could be a player two.

I'm not saying that if a novel can't be written on one's character they can't be in Smash. I'm saying that if they only exist to be someone else's partner, and have no games to themselves showcasing what they can really do, they're likely not a good addition. Luigi has his three games and he's evolved to be really different from Mario. Waluigi today is just like the Waluigi 18 years ago, because he's not ever used for anything.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Why did they have to change Villagers punch and tree to the god awful hammer and whatever she has as down B. Couldnt they have given he something else better?

Isabelle's down b is actually very dangerous on 4-8 player mode since it's kinda hard to see where she dug the rocket.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Isabelle's down b is actually very dangerous on 4-8 player mode since it's kinda hard to see where she dug the rocket.

Ive killed 3 people with cutting one tree before and killed one more just by growing it and it tapping their foot. I personaly think Villagers tree is better then Isabelles Lloid

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not saying that if a novel can't be written on one's character they can't be in Smash. I'm saying that if they only exist to be someone else's partner, and have no games to themselves showcasing what they can really do, they're likely not a good addition. Luigi has his three games and he's evolved to be really different from Mario. Waluigi today is just like the Waluigi 18 years ago, because he's not ever used for anything.

Every Mario character was created for the exact same reason Waluigi was: A role. Bowser's the bad guy, Peach is the princess that you rescue, Luigi is player 2, Yoshi is the animal friend, Wario is bad Mario, etc. Plus, a lot of characters on the roster don't have games of their own or playable appearances period outside of Smash.

The very fact you admitted earlier that Waluigi is recognized shows plenty know who he his and would want him.

TBH, all this really boils down to is you don't like the idea, which is fine. We're gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

[Pokechu]

Toad's forever going to be part of Peach's (and Daisy's now) moveset.

As much as a "never-ever" Waluigi is due to continued Assist role, Toad is even worse in that regard.
Same exact role since Melee with the only change being that he's more active in his role and even shows up for throws instead of being an unwilling meat shield.

Lots of people were saying the same about Ridley and being a boss, but look where we are now. I don't think a move will prevent Toad's inclusion, considering how Chrom is part of a Final Smash and also playable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not saying that if a novel can't be written on one's character they can't be in Smash. I'm saying that if they only exist to be someone else's partner, and have no games to themselves showcasing what they can really do, they're likely not a good addition. Luigi has his three games and he's evolved to be really different from Mario. Waluigi today is just like the Waluigi 18 years ago, because he's not ever used for anything.

Luigi was added before he had any of his own games to show off what he can really do. Mario is Missing is literally his only starring role before Smash 64. He only got in Smash 64 due to being a last-minute clone, but he also was vastly well known(not unlike Waluigi).

Waluigi's biggest issue is that he's harder to add because besides clearly being low priority among newcomer ideas, he can't be easily created using somebody's model. He's too different in his mannerisms. The fact he has no starring role(he kind of does, starting off the plot of Dance Revolution Mix) isn't going to matter nearly that much as things like inspiration, ease of creation, and vast popularity.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Isabelle's down b is one of the best moves in this game. You literally have so much stage and ledge control. It kills on platforms. Using it plus her fishing rod is one of the best set ups in the game. It's literally what makes Isabelle so good.

Tree takes actual seconds to set up and hit someone with. It's near useless against someone competent

 

[Pokechu]

Every Mario character was created for the exact same reason Waluigi was: A role. Bowser's the bad guy, Peach is the princess that you rescue, Luigi is player 2, Yoshi is the animal friend, Wario is bad Mario, etc. Plus, a lot of characters on the roster don't have games of their own or playable appearances period outside of Smash.

The very fact you admitted earlier that Waluigi is recognized shows plenty know who he his and would want him.

TBH, all this really boils down to is you don't like the idea, which is fine. We're gonna have to agree to disagree.

No, it doesn't boil down to me not liking the idea. You don't have to put words in my throat. Because if Waluigi's character was explored, I'd be more than willing to support him for Smash. But when Toad and Paper Mario still aren't in, after both had multiple games to their name, I don't understand the appeal of Waluigi in Smash. Other characters on the roster I'd say don't need their own games (how are Pokemon going to individually have their own game? etc) but because Waluigi is facing off against Toad and Paper Mario, he definitely needs one.

Waluigi is recognized but that still doesn't mean he's a good choice. If we're going by recognizability then Toad is like #1 out of all potential newcomers now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh god ****ing dammit we're having a "DESERVING" argument again in the game where they have Samus and Samus as different characters alongside Mario with different clothes and Baby Pikachu. It's not a high bar to pass

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I know that people are discussing Nintendo characters for DLC, but I'm just going to say to tread carefully with that. I honestly know nothing in terms of what DLC is going to look like, and it's not like I've been told anything by anybody (even if I was, I wouldn't share what I knew), but I don't feel confident in any Nintendo characters being DLC.

At this point, I feel that the Square character is probably still a thing. It's not so much because Erdrick has been leaked, but it's just a feeling. I'm feeling like Lloyd Irving will be added...it just makes sense, especially considering out of all Tales characters, he was the one who got a Mii costume.

In terms of personal wants, despite me not being a huge fan of his games (I played the remasters on PS4 and found them more infuriating than fun) I feel like Crash Bandicoot getting in as DLC would be a major nail in the coffin for any attempt to continue the Playstation All-Stars series (I mean, having Snake, Cloud, Joker, and Crash in the game is a major O O F in that regard).

I really don't know otherwise though. A lot of folks are focusing on characters that bear no popularity in more than one region of the world, which is where characters like Doomguy and Dragonborn fall flat. A character from Dark Souls would be hilarious to me, but I can see it happening. I can see it now, "Solaire is the Dark Souls of Smash characters"- IGN Reviewer.

Basically, it's anyone's guess. It's a nice feeling to know most leaks are probably trash now. I still wouldn't get any hopes up for Nintendo characters though.

 

[Deleted member]

I’m good with Ridley too.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Anyone notice that, aside from the bosses, the last few Spirits you obtain in Adventure Mode are Mother 3 characters?

*dons tinfoil hat*

 

[osby]

No, it doesn't boil down to me not liking the idea. You don't have to put words in my throat. Because if Waluigi's character was explored, I'd be more than willing to support him for Smash. But when Toad and Paper Mario still aren't in, after both had multiple games to their name, I don't understand the appeal of Waluigi in Smash. Other characters on the roster I'd say don't need their own games (how are Pokemon going to individually have their own game? etc) but because Waluigi is facing off against Toad and Paper Mario, he definitely needs one.

Waluigi is recognized but that still doesn't mean he's a good choice. If we're going by recognizability then Toad is like #1 out of all potential newcomers now.

Tbh, Rosalina, Luma and Bowser Jr. also don't have their own games. Waluigi rarely does something Chain Chomp or Dry Koopa can't, but that doesn't mean he has to pass Paper Mario or Toad.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Lots of people were saying the same about Ridley and being a boss, but look where we are now. I don't think a move will prevent Toad's inclusion, considering how Chrom is part of a Final Smash and also playable.

I think his point was more so that Toad being nothing more than a move for the entirety of Smash's history says a lot about how seriously Sakurai is taking the character, there's never been an indication that he's even been considered or that they at least wanted to give him some sort of promotion, and when that happens with someone who's irrefutably a Nintendo all-star, it's probably because Sakurai doesn't think he's got character potential (for whatever reason that might be). It's not the move itself that's the problem, but rather what it tells us of Sakurai's opinion of him.

Another thing Toad doesn't exactly have in his favor is a lack of fan demand as well. Ridley got in purely because of that, if there was a general acceptance of his situation then he'd have continued to be a never-ever, and unfortunately I think that's pretty much the situation Toad finds himself in. Sakurai doesn't see him as a potential character, and his popularity among fans is middling at best, so his situation is unlikely to change.

I'll add that I think it's a shame mind you, I definitely think Toad should be the next Mario character (granted I'm not particularly invested in that argument), but I just don't think it's going to happen.

 

[Opossum]

Waluigi just went "tennis?" and here he has been for the past years. Because he was made just so Wario had a partner.

"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

Let Waluigi have his hobbies.

 

[Pokechu]

Oh god ****ing dammit we're having a "DESERVING" argument again in the game where they have Samus and Samus as different characters alongside Mario with different clothes and Baby Pikachu. It's not a high bar to pass

Samus and ZSS were the same character, just separate now. Dr. Mario and Pichu are easy clones, and Waluigi couldn't be a clone because he's too different. If he could be I'd be all for him in Smash but I don't think he should be added otherwise because he simply isn't important to his series and doesn't offer anything Toad/Paper Mario couldn't (especially because Piranha Plant is already their own character).

 

[Pyra]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

 

[osby]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

See you later!

 

[Pokechu]

Tbh, Rosalina, Luma and Bowser Jr. also don't have their own games. Waluigi rarely does something Chain Chomp or Dry Koopa can't, but that doesn't mean he has to pass Paper Mario or Toad.

Rosalina and Luma had the whole Galaxy games at least and were playable in 3D World, and Bowser Jr. is a reoccurring villain. I don't mean to say Waluigi needs his own game and that's it, if he got important roles in maingames then that'd be great too, like how Toadette is doing now? But as is he's not being used for anything.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Ive killed 3 people with cutting one tree before and killed one more just by growing it and it tapping their foot. I personaly think Villagers tree is better then Isabelles Lloid

It's all about preferences, they both are pretty good moves in my opinion. Villager's is probably easier for kills but Isabelle's is for those who like being sneaky.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

Take care, dude.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Samus and ZSS were the same character, just separate now. Dr. Mario and Pichu are easy clones, and Waluigi couldn't be a clone because he's too different. If he could be I'd be all for him in Smash but I don't think he should be added otherwise because he simply isn't important to his series and doesn't offer anything Toad/Paper Mario couldn't (especially because Piranha Plant is already their own character).

This doesn't change how goddamn low the bar is. Sakurai could easily go "You know what, adding in 2 seperate versions of the same character kind of diminishes the characters who could appear if I add Samus again as a completely unique character in the third installment, I'll choose not to". I don't even ****ing care about Waluigi, it's so ****ing tiring to see "THIS CHARACTERS DESERVES TO BE IN!" and "THIS CHARACTER DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE IN!" when we LITERALLY HAVE SAMUS AND SAMUS AS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS

 

[ClaTheBae]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

Don't know your situation but hang in there man.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

Hope things go better for you, man.

Samus and ZSS were the same character, just separate now. Dr. Mario and Pichu are easy clones, and Waluigi couldn't be a clone because he's too different. If he could be I'd be all for him in Smash but I don't think he should be added otherwise because he simply isn't important to his series and doesn't offer anything Toad/Paper Mario couldn't (especially because Piranha Plant is already their own character).

They were always different playable characters. They just shared the same slot and were sometimes a different person(in the case of Pokemon Trainer) or the same person(in the case of Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zero Suit Samus).

Sakurai even went over that himself. His statement is that Brawl has 39 playable characters. This whole "they're the same character" thing? Never made sense nor actually affected Smash in any way. All they are are separate movesets to play as. Doesn't matter how connected a character is. It's a different moveset, which automatically makes them a separate playable character in some way officially.

 

[ClaTheBae]

we LITERALLY HAVE SAMUS AND SAMUS AS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS

and samus. you're forgetting samus.

 

[osby]

Rosalina and Luma had the whole Galaxy games at least and were playable in 3D World, and Bowser Jr. is a reoccurring villain. I don't mean to say Waluigi needs his own game and that's it, if he got important roles in maingames then that'd be great too, like how Toadette is doing now? But as is he's not being used for anything.

Don't get me wrong, I think acting like Waluigi has anything aside from fan demand is ridiculous, but it's not like characters didn't became playable for less.

I may not like the character, but I don't think he's not playable because he's unimportant.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I gotta be honest, the term deserves is very subjective. The devs are too unpredictable with their choices so we can never determine what's required for a character to be chosen.

 

[Lollipopped]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

I can sympathize with how you feel. Take care, I hope to see you when you feel better.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

and samus. you're forgetting samus.

No, the Samus you're referring to has the same moveset as Samus, my point is "DESERVING!" doesn't matter when Sakurai looked at a character who was already in the franchise since the very beginning and thought "How about I spend a hefty amount of time, money and effort to add that character again but make them completely different?"

 

[Kingslime304]

Isabelle's down b is one of the best moves in this game. You literally have so much stage and ledge control. It kills on platforms. Using it plus her fishing rod is one of the best set ups in the game. It's literally what makes Isabelle so good.

Tree takes actual seconds to set up and hit someone with. It's near useless against someone competent

But then again, Villagers is mostly used for setups, and as a barrier, while Isabelle's mine can be destoyed by most projectiles (Mii swordfighters gale, and snakes kit for example).

 

[osby]

I gotta be honest, the term deserves is very subjective. The devs are too unpredictable with their choices so we can never determine what's required for a character to be chosen.

Because it can be a lot of things: Ease of implementation, adding unique stuff, popularity, importance to the franchise etc.

 

[Wademan94]

Oh boy, discussions on another Mario character for Smash. Can I get a little support for Fawful out there somewhere?

 

[Deleted member]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

Hope things get better and you feel better soon.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh god ****ing dammit we're having a "DESERVING" argument again in the game where they have Samus and Samus as different characters alongside Mario with different clothes and Baby Pikachu. It's not a high bar to pass

The bar went literally below the ground after Daisy and K. Rool sent it to the other side of the globe. Don't @ me.

 

[ClaTheBae]

But then again, Villagers is mostly used for setups, and as a barrier, while Isabelle's mine can be destoyed by most projectiles (Mii swordfighters gale, and snakes kit for example).

I can't believe people are actually defending the tree unironically. This can't be happening

 

[GoeGoe]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

What if I told you, tomorrow is a special Goemon day

 

[Lollipopped]

Oh boy, discussions on another Mario character for Smash. Can I get a little support for Fawful out there somewhere?

Sure, why not? And besides, if we're talking about Mario characters in Smash, then I definitely have my preferences as well.

 

[osby]

Oh boy, discussions on another Mario character for Smash. Can I get a little support for Fawful out there somewhere?

Sorry, I'm interested in only one Mario character and it's not Fawful