Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

No one in Mario has deep characterization because that isn't the point of Mario at all. Mario doesn't have deep lore with deep characters that need explanations and motives.

It's a franchise about an italian plumber who jumps on turtles and saves a princess. Luigi only exists so that there could be a player two.

wait...what about Rosalina? She has a deep lore

 

[Cosmic77]

Toad and Waluigi are two iconic characters I'd love to see in Smash, but to tell ya the truth, I'm content with how both are represented. I'd rather get someone really unique and creative like PP over a character who got in because they "deserved" it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The bar went literally below the ground after Daisy and K. Rool sent it to the other side of the globe. Don't @ me.

Bold of you to assume the bar was that high for the last decade

 

[Dyllybirdy]

goodbye for now smashboards
i'm in a dark place rn and it's just not fun to do anything anymore. at least right now.
see ya at some other point

I hope you're alright...

See you later.

 

[Deleted member]

wait...what about Rosalina? She has a deep lore

Not really, IMO. There's some vague story book pages about her, but a lot of it is fan interpretation. Head canons from fans can make things seem deeper and more complex than they really are.

 

[osby]

Bold of you to assume the bar was that high for the last decade

First time we got Bowser and Peach, we also got Mario with a PhD. Was there even a bar to begin with?

 

[ClaTheBae]

THIS SONG WILL JUST NOT APPEAR IN THE SHOP

FOR 3 DAYS I'VE BEEN TRYING

COME ON

 

[kirbsmash]

Hi, what is going on guys?

 

[Will]

THIS SONG WILL JUST NOT APPEAR IN THE SHOP

FOR 3 DAYS I'VE BEEN TRYING

COME ON

**** I KEEP FORGETTING TO BUY THINGS FROM THE SHOP

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Not really, IMO. There's some vague story book pages about her, but a lot of it is fan interpretation. Head canons from fans can make things seem deeper and more complex than they really are.

well good thing that’s just your wrong opinion

THIS SONG WILL JUST NOT APPEAR IN THE SHOP

FOR 3 DAYS I'VE BEEN TRYING

COME ON

I got the song two days ago...such sexiness for a song

 

[Cosmic77]

Not really, IMO. There's some vague story book pages about her, but a lot of it is fan interpretation. Head canons from fans can make things seem deeper and more complex than they really are.

By Super Mario standards, Rosalina has the deepest lore out of all recurring Mario characters. It ain't much, but it's deeper than "evil turtle who wants to kidnap the princess" and "tomboy princess from the kingdom next door."

 

[Deleted member]

Not really, IMO. There's some vague story book pages about her, but a lot of it is fan interpretation. Head canons from fans can make things seem deeper and more complex than they really are.

Lol, Rosalina is Luigi’s daughter guys.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Because it can be a lot of things: Ease of implementation, adding unique stuff, popularity, importance to the franchise etc.

True but they still like pulling out unexpected choices like Piranha Plant, did anyone think it deserves to be a playable character?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Isabelle's down b is one of the best moves in this game. You literally have so much stage and ledge control. It kills on platforms. Using it plus her fishing rod is one of the best set ups in the game. It's literally what makes Isabelle so good.

Tree takes actual seconds to set up and hit someone with. It's near useless against someone competent

I dont only use the tree tho, Ive killed dudes using the axe with the tree ans boy howdy is it as satifying as dropping a tree on their head

It's all about preferences, they both are pretty good moves in my opinion. Villager's is probably easier for kills but Isabelle's is for those who like being sneaky.

yeah, thats why I like Villager way more the her. I get more satifaction from the tree the the Lloid because it just feels so good to trap them under the tree. And when the tree grow and just simply literaly touches their ass, its amazing

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

THIS SONG WILL JUST NOT APPEAR IN THE SHOP

FOR 3 DAYS I'VE BEEN TRYING

COME ON

Forget Guile's Theme
This is the song that truly goes with everything

 

[CroonerMike]

Heres the point in my favor.

Lloyd is a Sword user, and he uses tons of Sword skills in his game.
We have alot of Sword users in Smash now.

Agumon would be a more unique character.

Agumon Unique...meh...kinda like an ugly chili Charizard with the wings cut off. It’s design isn’t the most appealing thing in the world. Lloyd actually is very unqiue with his moveset and design as much as I don’t care for him.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

First time we got Bowser and Peach, we also got Mario with a PhD. Was there even a bar to begin with?

In 64 I guess? Though the thought of the only game in the series having high standards for the whole cast was made on the free time of the developers because Nintendo didn't expect it to do well is hilarious

 

[Deleted member]

There's only one thing that determines if a character will be playable in Smash Bros.:

Do Sakurai and Nintendo want to do it? Then yes.

Do they not want to do it? Then no.

The word deserve is one of the worst topics in this fandom. I've made a million posts about it in the past, and I still stand by the opinion that it's a silly attribute that people only use to try and prove their character is better than someone else's because they either:

A. Don't like that character.
or
B. They feel that the other character somehow "threatens" their most wanted and want to put them down anyway they can to convince themselves their favorite is better and more likely.

 

[Deleted member]

**** Style Savvy.

Style Boutique is miles better in any form.

 

[osby]

True but they still like pulling out unexpected choices like Piranha Plant, did anyone think it deserves to be a playable character?

He deserves it because he's a video game character.

...and that's it, really. Smash is a fighting game, not some hall of fame.

 

[Deleted member]

By the way, I was not bashing Galaxy or Rosalina.

I just don't think the "lore" (which is literally just a children's picture book) is all that deep. It's fun, but not mind blowing.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

THIS SONG WILL JUST NOT APPEAR IN THE SHOP

FOR 3 DAYS I'VE BEEN TRYING

COME ON

Wow, that is a nice song!

 

[Cosmic77]

In 64 I guess? Though the thought of the only game in the series having high standards for the whole cast was made on the free time of the developers because Nintendo didn't expect it to do well is hilarious

Not even in 64 was the bar high. Did anyone truly know who Ness was back then?

He deserves it because he's a video game character.

...and that's it, really. Smash is a fighting game, not some hall of fame.

I mean, Smash is still a video game full of all-stars. You've got a few surprises here and there, but it's not like a majority of the roster consists of random Nintendo nobodies.

I'd argue it's a hall of fame of sorts.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow, that is a nice song!

It isn’t.

The assholes who made Style Savvy stole all the OST from Style Boutique, the latter being a superior game.

 

[segillav]

THIS SONG WILL JUST NOT APPEAR IN THE SHOP

FOR 3 DAYS I'VE BEEN TRYING

COME ON

I felt truly blessed when I got it in the shop on day 1.

 

[kirbsmash]

Well Pikachu and Pichu are not the same characters tho

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

It isn’t.

The ******** who made Style Savvy stole all the OST from Style Boutique, the latter being a superior game.

It's the same game. It just has a different name in some countries

 

[osby]

I mean, Smash is still a video game full of all-stars. You've got a few surprises here and there, but it's not like a majority of the roster consists of random Nintendo nobodies.

I'd argue it's a hall of fame of sorts.

I'll give that most of the fighters are important characters in their fandoms and/or well-known figures. But it's still kinda funny acting like there is a bar every character needs to pass.

 

[Deleted member]

It's the same game. It just has a different name in some countries

Spoiler

I know already.

 

[Kingslime304]

I can't believe people are actually defending the tree unironically. This can't be happening

Not really defending it, just pointing it out for the heck of it.

 

[Wademan94]

If we’re talking stuff like characterization in the Mario games, can we talk about Fawful’s rise from minion to big bad?

I think this comment from Philip Draco over on YouTube sums it up best:

Spoiler

Fawful is one of the most inspirational villain of all time.

Think about it. In his first appearance, Cackletta describes him as the best minion she has, and she MEANS it. He destroys a FLYING BATTLESHIP with his HAT.

He then kidnapped the prince, turned him into a dragon, destroyed his rescue party AND blocked the path in a little more time then it took the bros to get 100 coins.

He then proceeds to build robot peach replicas using the stolen voice, and gets THREE voices for the price of one! When his master falls, he quickly pulls out his trusty headgear, Saves her soul, and then scours the land for someone he can use to save his master

Then, at the end of the game... He realizes it.... Why is he working for Cackletta? He doesn't need Cackletta. Cackletta needed HIM.

Due to a poorly designed attack, he somehow loses with an impregnable defensive robot, and is sent flying out of the castle.

But he's not done.

Beanless, and with no place to go, Fawful retreats to the one place no one would look for him: The sewers under his enemies castle. There, he works. He makes commerce, creating the most powerful badges the world has ever seen, even one that allows infinite use of items! THE DUDE HAS A SOLUTION FOR WORLD HUNGER

He trades his way up, selling and buying
until...
Until.....

The day comes. He is ready. He has found a minion who was as faithful as he was. He has built his army, and is ready. He attacks, with full force and might, and takes down the two greatest powers in the mushroom kingdom, Bowser and Peach, with one simple item.

He then takes over the castles, remodeling them and brainwashing who he can, locking away those who resist.

And yet.... He's the most thoughtful tyrant who's ever attempted world domination. He cooks for them. He preforms for them. He pays them well, and works with them to achieve victory.

He doesn't sit on a rocket powered chair, letting everyone else do his bidding, He's in the fight.

He's adding nuts to statues, He's carrying princesses away, he's turning CASTLE INTO GIANT ROBOTS WITH BLACK HOLE GENERATORS

He's in the fight, and does EVERYTHING he can to ensure his success. Because he knows what it's like to be the minion. And he'll do everything he can to help them out.

He might of fallen in the end, probably because he overestimated his ability to fight Bowser, but it doesn't matter. He will always be the minion, who rose from the bottom of the barrel, to the top of the food chain.

All Hail Lord Fawful

Link to video: https://youtu.be/FbQSJp-D5C8

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm watching some matches and damn, Wolf's smash attacks don't have much endlag, that seems like an oversight lol. Won't complain though, safe kill moves are something I highly appreciate

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I'll give that most of the fighters are important characters in their fandoms and/or well-known figures. But it's still kinda funny acting like there is a bar every character needs to pass.

So I suppose it's possibly Sakurai or the devs disinterest in some characters like Waluigi that are shafted then. Not trying to argue about it but I just feel like it's hard to determine who's going to be playable with how unpredictable they are.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Im so ****ing glad Melty Monster is in smash

 

[ClaTheBae]

I'm watching some matches and damn, Wolf's smash attacks don't have much endlag, that seems like an oversight lol. Won't complain though, safe kill moves are something I highly appreciate

Looks intentional besides his F smash. The animation for it looks a little jank when it ends

 

[Wademan94]

Im so ****ing glad Melty Monster is in smash

Same, wish Battlerock Galaxy was in as well

 

[SonicMario]

I don't personally think it's inherently wrong to treat Smash Bros. as a "hall of fame" for Video game characters. Yes, it can lead to people getting upset that a character they've set themselves to believe deserve the full honors as if it's their favorite sports player that got snubbed from being in the new Hall of Fame class of particular sports especially if a character gets in that they don't personally like or lacks any of the credentials they believe makes a character worthy gets in

I just don't think it's entirely wrong to really have those kind of expectations given a majority of the roster does have their place in history. Even most of the newer characters that are around or less then 10 years old are either of new IPs that have hit it big or are popular characters themselves.

I do feel Smash still kind of has a special feel when characters are added even with stuff like the Piranha Plant

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So I suppose it's possibly Sakurai or the devs disinterest in some characters like Waluigi that are shafted then.

Okay, hot take
I'd argue that Sakurai didn't necessarily shaft Waluigi. In fact, he's stayed very true to his character and personality.

Waluigi is meant to be the loser, the guy you're supposed to feel bad for... He's meant to be kind of a joke. And if he got in, I feel like it'd kinda ruin his purpose of his character

Don't get me wrong, I'd be completely fine with Waluigi being playable, but him not being playable fits very well with his loser personality...

 

[osby]

Okay, hot take

I'd argue that Sakurai didn't necessarily shaft Waluigi. In fact, he's stayed very true to his character and personality. Waluigi is meant to be the loser, the guy you're supposed to feel bad for... He's meant to be kind of a joke. And if he got in, I feel like it'd kinda ruin his purpose of his character

Don't get me wrong, I'd be completely fine with Waluigi being playable, but him not being playable fits very well with his loser personality...

There's also that. Plus, there are tons of Mario spin-off characters. One being non-playable hardly means they got shafted.

 

[LetterO]

Okay, hot take
I'd argue that Sakurai didn't necessarily shaft Waluigi. In fact, he's stayed very true to his character and personality.

Waluigi is meant to be the loser, the guy you're supposed to feel bad for... He's meant to be kind of a joke. And if he got in, I feel like it'd kinda ruin his purpose of his character

Don't get me wrong, I'd be completely fine with Waluigi being playable, but him not being playable fits very well with his loser personality...

It'd be in character for Waluigi to be both a character and an assist trophy