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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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StormC

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I don't think we need "villain reps." That shouldn't be the only reason to add a villain. But villains are fun. You rarely ever see them playable, especially in Nintendo games. They offer a different sort of personality than most heroes and you get to recreate iconic boss battles from various games. It's only natural people would want them. Too many of the villains right now are in a gray area.

Doesn't help that Wolf was cut. K. Rool and Ridley would be enough to suffice for me, but I think there's a place for characters like Kamek too. But I'm not saying we need characters like Captain Syrup or Porky or else the roster is missing something.
 

NintenZ

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In terms of villain characters I feel that there aren’t that many that really strike me, I feel that there’s more appeal and variety in adding female characters in all honesty, but that’s just me.
 

Radical Bones

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I don't think we need "villain reps." That shouldn't be the only reason to add a villain. But villains are fun. You rarely ever see them playable, especially in Nintendo games. They offer a different sort of personality than most heroes and you get to recreate iconic boss battles from various games. It's only natural people would want them. Too many of the villains right now are in a gray area.

Doesn't help that Wolf was cut. K. Rool and Ridley would be enough to suffice for me, but I think there's a place for characters like Kamek too. But I'm not saying we need characters like Captain Syrup or Porky or else the roster is missing something.
I think a lot of the time the villain is a more important character rep than a secondary character. For example, and I might be shot down for this, but I think Wolf or Andross are more important to Star Fox than Falco.

The villain is what drives the main character. Without them, there'd be no plot.
 

StormC

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I think a lot of the time the villain is a more important character rep than a secondary character. For example, and I might be shot down for this, but I think Wolf or Andross are more important to Star Fox than Falco.

The villain is what drives the main character. Without them, there'd be no plot.
Falco has been in every Star Fox game since the beginning and is present in every stage of games like Star Fox 64. Wolf shows up in three stages max. Not really the same thing.
 

Radical Bones

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I would like Donkey Kong Jr to come back in some context.

I thought they used him well in DK ‘94.

He was a trophy in melee I think.
Donkey Kong Jr. would be a pretty cool rep in the DK series to be honest. I think he'd be poorly received if he didn't come with K.Rool or Dixie, though.

Falco has been in every Star Fox game since the beginning and is present in every stage of games like Star Fox 64. Wolf shows up in three stages max. Not really the same thing.
It's not about how often they appear in the game though. The antagonising force is more important in a video game than a sassy comrade.
 
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StormC

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It's not about how often they appear in the game though. The antagonising force is more important in a video game than a sassy comrade.
I mean, these are video games. The plot isn’t super important, Falco has seniority and more presence in the games he’s in.

Characters lower on the totem pole I agree with. But Falco is like Han Solo, THE second lead.
 

Gumzilla

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Hey has anyone noticed that the main character of the first Mother/Earthbound game is still absent?
 

TheMagicalKuja

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So, I got an advertising email from Nintendo. A couple of interesting notes:

- Their E3 page is already up.
- Second and more importantly, Qualifiers for their Splatoon 2 tourney take place on the 21st, with top eight happening a week later. The winners get to go to the invitational, which is happening not too far datewise from Smash's invitational.

What does that tell us? They're gonna announce who's making it to both invitations, and when they announce who's going to Smash is likely the next time we learn anything about Smash Switch.
 

Ura

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If there were exactly six new universes introduced in Super Smash Bros 2018, what do you think they would be? You must pick one retro and two third parties (not because that's going to happen, but because I said so.)

And obviously Splatoon has to be one of the six.

IMO:
  • Splatoon
  • Excitebike
  • Rhythm Heaven
  • The Mysterious Murasame Castle (Retro Rep)
  • Bomberman
  • Castlevania
The reason I don't count Excitebike as the official stand alone retro rep is because his game has received several sequels, kind of like Punch-Out!!.

The criteria for this little game is that you must pick a retro character with only one installment (I know Kid Icarus had two before Brawl, but whatever. I'm making the rules here.)
Splatoon
Rhythm Heaven
Advance Wars
The Mysterious Murasame Castle
Bomberman
Rayman
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Kinda off topic and might seem random (i’ve been lurking but that’s because I didn’t have a very good weekend), but through my time in Smash Bros talk, i’ve seen some ideas that kinda go completely against what’s Smash Bros is supposed to be.

Now what it’s supposed to be is subjective I guess. But what I mean by that in this context is that characters are, “as close to source material as possible “. That’s one thing I think is incredibly important anyway.

For example, and not to trigger people, Ridley. In any given Metroid game where possible, Ridley is typically at least twice Samus’s size. That’s his size. He doesn’t have the ability to change size like Bowser...he’s consistently massive compared to the main character of the series he comes from.

Now this isn’t to say it can’t or shouldn’t happen. I think Ridley could be fun. But if you shrink Ridley down to a particular size to where he’s not THAT much bigger than Samus, is he really a “natural fit” to the game?

Olimar, on the other hand, has an advantage in this case because he doesn’t have another Pikmin monster to compare to in Smash. With Smash, a rather short Olimar can get away with fighting a taller Mario (despite the fact that we have the one manual that compares him to a Nickle). It sounds hypocritical, and there may be something hypocritical to it, but that is a presentable difference there.

I do believe size matters to an extent, especially if a series has a certain size character in it anyway. For example, if Mewtwo is roughly Samus’ height, we wouldn’t expect say, Dialga or another legendary to be downsized as playable because then it wouldn’t be the same thing. That, in itself, would appear to kinda go against the grain of the image of the game.

There are other examples, like giving particular features to a character that they’ve never had in any of the games they are featured in simply to make them fit Smash. I won’t single them out though.
 
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NintenZ

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Hey has anyone noticed that the main character of the first Mother/Earthbound game is still absent?
I think people have just accepted it since him and Ness are essentially the same character, that and the Earthbound series is finished.
 

StormC

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Characters having moves they don’t have in their games happens literally every game. Just saying.
 
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So much of smash goes away from the source material i've stopped caring altogether. Just trying to focus on that at this point would just be limiting things. Not every game needs to be FighterZ.

Hey has anyone noticed that the main character of the first Mother/Earthbound game is still absent?
Ninten is an unfortunate situation. Ness got in before him and Mother isn't a big enough series that people really care for Ninten. The visual similarities plus the fact Ninten himself doesn't have any particular cool moveset qualities pretty much leaves him out.

Doesn't help Mother was only released in the west on the WIi U
:061:
 

NintenZ

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So since we have who was previously the safest character in Smash (Inkling) who do you think is the safest character now?
 
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Starcutter

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So since we have who was previously the safest character in Smash (Inkling) who's the safest character now?
It's debatable.

Some would say bandana dee, but ppl argue that he's generic. Some would say Rex, but there are arguments he's too new. Same with Spring Man for the "too new" thing.


I think the character that is the safest at this point is Isabelle, imo
 

TheMagicalKuja

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To add to what I said above, that means I expect something Smash related in May (28th is a Saturday). Chill and don't expect anything Smash related for the rest of April, it'll be easier to deal with.
 
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So since we have who was previously the safest character in Smash (Inkling) who do you think is the safest character now?
Does "Gen 7 pokemon" count?

If you need specifics I would probably say Isablle. Takamaru is one I cant be too sure on because everyone assumes he is a lock and I cant really trust smashers to be right about retros lol
:061:
 

StormC

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I only see Isabelle as a clone. What gameplay mechanics does she embody that makes her stand out to Sakurai?
 

Tree Gelbman

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I only see Isabelle as a clone. What gameplay mechanics does she embody that makes her stand out to Sakurai?
-sigh-

I'm tired of this argument.

But literally everything she does in Animal Crossing is important and something Villager doesn't do in his moveset. She can represent all the parts of life simulation he doesn't. Building new buildings for example, the interior decorating and items, etc, etc.

Isabelle is the most popular Nintendo character introduced in years asides from Inklings. She's not going to be a clone.
 

NintenZ

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I only see Isabelle as a clone. What gameplay mechanics does she embody that makes her stand out to Sakurai?
From what I've seen and heard she could be like Villager but focus more on stuff she does in the game as the mayor's assistant, this could tie into various public works projects that you obtain in the game and maybe throw things in that a typical secretary does, knocking people over with a clipboard, spilling coffee, etc.
 

Tree Gelbman

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Since when have we had a Nintendo character who literally became the face of their series in just one game? She came into the Animal Crossing series and has been in just 3 games but she is legit the face of a well established series now next to the player avatar.

She has plushes, amiibos, statues, reps the series in Mario Kart (she's even on the box art to say ''Look Animal Crossing is in this game now!"), she has her own official social media account, and just genuinely wasted no time saying ''I'm here to stay."

There's legit no way that Sakurai can ignore her and there's very little chance he could take someone so popular as her and put minimal effort into her.
 
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Hinata

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I agree that Isabelle seems like the safest bet right now. But part of me, deep inside, feels like Takamaru might be a pretty damn safe bet too.

-sigh-

I'm tired of this argument.

But literally everything she does in Animal Crossing is important and something Villager doesn't do in his moveset. She can represent all the parts of life simulation he doesn't. Building new buildings for example, the interior decorating and items, etc, etc.

Isabelle is the most popular Nintendo character introduced in years asides from Inklings. She's not going to be a clone.
But Villager's Final Smash is building a house around people.

i don't think she'll be a clone either please don't hurt me
 

SamuXCI

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I'd prefer Goemon over Takamaru. Shame he is a 3rd party lower tier Konami character.
 

NintenZ

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Apparently Ashley is pretty popular in Japan, I could potentially see her as well if things crop up well due to how much of a stick-out she is.
 

FlareHabanero

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So much of smash goes away from the source material i've stopped caring altogether. Just trying to focus on that at this point would just be limiting things.
It's a mixture of improvising and emulating. Every single thing in Super Smash Bros. needs to conform to the rules of the game, but at the same time also needs to make sense within the context. With the characters specifically, how much is improvised and how much is emulated from other games larger depends on the character.

A golden example I like to use is for Captain Falcon. Everything about the character is made up technically. But Captain Falcon himself focuses on speed, such as his fast running and falling, referencing how Captain Falcon comes from a series of futuristic racing games known for breakneck speeds. He's also got elements of comic book super heroes, or super sentai, hence why he also has high power. In fact his trademark Falcon Punch and Falcon Kick are homages to Kamen Rider's Rider Punch and Rider Kick respectively. So even though it's made up, it still makes sense coming from the type of character Captain Falcon conveys.

By contrast, take Kirby for example. A lot of Kirby's moves are references to moves Kirby can do in his own games. His moveset references Fighter, Ninja, Suplex, Cutter, Stone, Hammer, his signature ability of inhaling, swallowing, and spitting them out, and of course his signature ability to copy others. Only the odd aerial attack and tilt are actually improvised, just for the sake of finishing the moveset.

So basically, it can go either way in a sliding scale fashion.
 

Hinata

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Apparently Ashley is pretty popular in Japan, I could potentially see her as well if things crop up well due to how much of a stick-out she is.
Oh, don't even get me started, mate. Ashley's hella popular in Japan (the Nintendo Badge Arcade introduced her as, quote, "by far the most popular WarioWare character"), she's been heavily marketed ever since Game & Wario, and the devs of that series really wanna push her as much as possible, because they know she's such an icon.

My evidence to prove this point comes from this picture:


Ashley was used to advertise the game Tank Troopers, even though she doesn't appear in the game in any capacity whatsoever. They want Ashley wherever they can get her.
 

StormC

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Sakurai didn’t even consider adding the main villain of the Zelda franchise until he realized he could clone him from a race car driver.

Most Isabelle move suggestions I’ve seen just seem to be very similar to Villager’s play style but with items swapped. Sakurai was pretty conscious about adding characters in 4 with standout gimmicks/mechanics; where does Isabelle fit into that?

I’m not against the character but I’m not sure where Sakurai would take her.
 
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Oh, don't even get me started, mate. Ashley's hella popular in Japan (the Nintendo Badge Arcade introduced her as, quote, "by far the most popular WarioWare character"), she's been heavily marketed ever since Game & Wario, and the devs of that series really wanna push her as much as possible, because they know she's such an icon.

My evidence to prove this point comes from this picture:


Ashley was used to advertise the game Tank Troopers, even though she doesn't appear in the game in any capacity whatsoever. They want Ashley wherever they can get her.
maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan I forgot this game existed (just like everyone else)

I wonder if we'll get a trophy for this. We sure as hell aren't getting anything else.
:061:
 
D

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Oh, don't even get me started, mate. Ashley's hella popular in Japan (the Nintendo Badge Arcade introduced her as, quote, "by far the most popular WarioWare character"), she's been heavily marketed ever since Game & Wario, and the devs of that series really wanna push her as much as possible, because they know she's such an icon.

My evidence to prove this point comes from this picture:


Ashley was used to advertise the game Tank Troopers, even though she doesn't appear in the game in any capacity whatsoever. They want Ashley wherever they can get her.
They pulled a Wolverine with her?

Damn.
 

ColietheGoalie

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Kinda off topic and might seem random (i’ve been lurking but that’s because I didn’t have a very good weekend), but through my time in Smash Bros talk, i’ve seen some ideas that kinda go completely against what’s Smash Bros is supposed to be.

Now what it’s supposed to be is subjective I guess. But what I mean by that I’m this context is that characters are, “as close to source material as possible “. That’s one thing I think is incredibly important anyway.

For example, and not to trigger people, Ridley. In any given Metroid game where possible, Ridley is typically twice Samus’s size. That’s his size. He doesn’t have the ability to change size like Bowser...he’s consistently massive compared to the main character of the series he comes from.

Now this isn’t to say it can’t or shouldn’t happen. I think Ridley could be fun. But if you shrink Ridley down to a particular size to where he’s not THAT much bigger than Samus, is he really a “natural fit” to the game?

Olimar, on the other hand, has an advantage in this case because he doesn’t have another Pikmin monster to compare to in Smash. With Smash, a rather short Olimar can get away with fighting a taller Mario (despite the fact that we have the one manual that compares him to a Nickle). It sounds hypocritical, and there may be something hypocritical to it, but that is a presentable difference there.

I do believe size matters to an extent, especially if a series has a certain size character in it anyway. For example, if Mewtwo is roughly Samus’ height, we wouldn’t expect say, Dialga or another legendary to be downsized as playable because then it wouldn’t be the same thing. That, in itself, would appear to kinda go against the grain of the image of the game.

There are other examples, like giving particular features to a character that they’ve never had in any of the games they are featured in simply to make them fit Smash. I won’t single them out though.
Even as a Ridley supporter, this makes some sense. Not having another character from his series to scale off of make Olimar stick out less.

I would say though that Bowser, even if flexible, 9 times out of 10 is at least double Mario’s size, and quite often is GIGANTIC. But they manage to make him work in Smash while keeping that “giant boss” mentality somewhat intact.
 
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