Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Even as a Ridley supporter, this makes some sense. Not having another character from his series to scale off of make Olimar stick out less.

I would say though that Bowser, even if flexible, 9 times out of 10 is at least double Mario’s size, and quite often is GIGANTIC. But they manage to make him work in Smash while keeping that “giant boss” mentality somewhat intact.

Bowser is a poor example.
His overall size is too inconsistent. And when he was added back in Melee, there was really only one time he was "huge"; Super Mario 64.

 

[NintenZ]

My Super Smash Bros. for Switch Roster. It's kinda like my wishlist...
All I did was the fonts and textures. Made in Photoshop CC 2018
Made by also from Roster Builder 5

View attachment 141776

Spoiler: Starting

View attachment 141775

Spoiler: With Tetsuro Hoshino

View attachment 141777

Just wanted to ask, who is Tetsuro Hoshino?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think Ashley's problem even as a supporter, is you have to get super inspired with her moveset as most of the stuff in the WarioWare games doesn't translate to Smash very well.

And none of it translates to her either seeing as she's a witch in a game that just hosts a segment of mini games.

I mean then again look at Wario and his....absurdity. I'm still not sure how that's suppose to rep WarioWare, but yay Sakurai?

 

[NintenZ]

I also would say Captain Toad is pretty safe as a Mario character to be honest, as far as I'm aware he doesn't really have much competition other than Paper Mario or maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe Geno.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You could do stuff with Ashley's theme song, but not sure how the kookiness would translate to a moveset either.

I only say this because I can't see her just having standard magic attacks either. She'd lack any of the personality the theme song and her segments in the WarioWare games give her.

 

[Deleted member]

....you can make up stuff for Isabelle.....but can't picture Ashley working?

I'm sorry, but that is a massive case of irony.

 

[Blargg888]

Kinda off topic and might seem random (i’ve been lurking but that’s because I didn’t have a very good weekend), but through my time in Smash Bros talk, i’ve seen some ideas that kinda go completely against what’s Smash Bros is supposed to be.

Now what it’s supposed to be is subjective I guess. But what I mean by that in this context is that characters are, “as close to source material as possible “. That’s one thing I think is incredibly important anyway.

For example, and not to trigger people, Ridley. In any given Metroid game where possible, Ridley is typically at least twice Samus’s size. That’s his size. He doesn’t have the ability to change size like Bowser...he’s consistently massive compared to the main character of the series he comes from.

Now this isn’t to say it can’t or shouldn’t happen. I think Ridley could be fun. But if you shrink Ridley down to a particular size to where he’s not THAT much bigger than Samus, is he really a “natural fit” to the game?

Olimar, on the other hand, has an advantage in this case because he doesn’t have another Pikmin monster to compare to in Smash. With Smash, a rather short Olimar can get away with fighting a taller Mario (despite the fact that we have the one manual that compares him to a Nickle). It sounds hypocritical, and there may be something hypocritical to it, but that is a presentable difference there.

I do believe size matters to an extent, especially if a series has a certain size character in it anyway. For example, if Mewtwo is roughly Samus’ height, we wouldn’t expect say, Dialga or another legendary to be downsized as playable because then it wouldn’t be the same thing. That, in itself, would appear to kinda go against the grain of the image of the game.

There are other examples, like giving particular features to a character that they’ve never had in any of the games they are featured in simply to make them fit Smash. I won’t single them out though.

I'd also note that although Olimar is not literally normal sized, when playing Pikmin games, Olimar looks normal size relative to the camera and the person playing as him. Sure, we know that he's not normal size, but we're put in a perspective where he appears at a normal size relative to our point of view.

Ridley on the other hand is a boss character, so he only appears when playing as Samus. This means that he always appears large, unlike Olimar.

 

[Hinata]

You could do stuff with Ashley's theme song, but not sure how the kookiness would translate to a moveset either.

I only say this because I can't see her just having standard magic attacks either. She'd lack any of the personality the theme song and her segments in the WarioWare games give her.

I have faith in Sakurai's ability to give Ashley a moveset that we'll all look at and say "oh, duh, of course that'd be what she does", like he does with so many other characters.

Although, I wouldn't be opposed to a normal mage-esque moveset.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think Ashley's problem even as a supporter, is you have to get super inspired with her moveset as most of the stuff in the WarioWare games doesn't translate to Smash very well.

And none of it translates to her either seeing as she's a witch in a game that just hosts a segment of mini games.

I mean then again look at Wario and his....absurdity. I'm still not sure how that's suppose to rep WarioWare, but yay Sakurai?

I posted about this the other day, Ashley is canonically a witch with black magic and potions and a shappeshifting imp. There's plenty to use right there without actually having to do anything in her moveset to "represent" Warioware. What does Wario have in his moveset to "represent" Warioware?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

....you can make up stuff for Isabelle.....but can't picture Ashley working?

I'm sorry, but that is a massive case of irony.

Isabelle literally has a functioning and active role in her games where she takes place in the gameplay at hand.

Ashley is well...in WarioWare, where she's just hosting mini-games.

WarioWare is literally just mini-games with funny little bits in between. All we know about Ashley is she's a mediocre witch and what's stated in her theme song. While she sounds fun and I support her. You can't exactly make her make someone's pants big or turn them into a spoon.

A majority of the stuff I can think of involves Red and his shapeshifting more and is that really about Ashley anymore?

I don't think that's ironic as you think it is, Golden.

 

[Hinata]

I posted about this the other day, Ashley is canonically a witch with black magic and potions and a shappeshifting imp. There's plenty to use right there without actually having to do anything in her moveset to "represent" Warioware. What does Wario have in his moveset to "represent" Warioware?

Speaking of her shapeshifting imp, how would one incorporate Red into her moveset? Canonically, Red has to transform into Ashley's wand for her to do any magic, I believe, so I think he'd be stuck in that role when it came to her moveset.

 

[Luminario]

Sakurai didn’t even consider adding the main villain of the Zelda franchise until he realized he could clone him from a race car driver.

Most Isabelle move suggestions I’ve seen just seem to be very similar to Villager’s play style but with items swapped. Sakurai was pretty conscious about adding characters in 4 with standout gimmicks/mechanics; where does Isabelle fit into that?

I’m not against the character but I’m not sure where Sakurai would take her.

A trapper is usually agreed on around here. Her association with Public Work Projects in AC could allow her to terraform the stage for her normals and specials. For example, she could lay down a Resetti Manhole as a land mine or summon arches and topiaries out of the ground for smash attacks, along with using the misc items like bubble blower, party popper, toy hammer and even the various emotions in the game to fill out her moveset.
She could have some overlap with Villager, especially in the stats department, but there's so much to take from in AC there's little reason for moves to overlap unless she's pretty low priority.

I think Ashley's problem even as a supporter, is you have to get super inspired with her moveset as most of the stuff in the WarioWare games doesn't translate to Smash very well.

And none of it translates to her either seeing as she's a witch in a game that just hosts a segment of mini games.

I mean then again look at Wario and his....absurdity. I'm still not sure how that's suppose to rep WarioWare, but yay Sakurai?

I feel like if she gets into the game she'll be as her own character, not to bring the craziness of WarioWare to Smash, if you get what I mean. They'll just use her witchiness and hexes as inspiration for a debuffer character as opposed to anything substantial from her microgames.

 

[NintenZ]

Isabelle literally has a functioning and active role in her games where she takes place in the gameplay at hand.

Ashley is well...in WarioWare, where she's just hosting mini-games.

WarioWare is literally just mini-games with funny little bits in between. All we know about Ashley is she's a mediocre witch and what's stated in her theme song. While she sounds fun and I support her. You can't exactly make her make someone's pants big or turn them into a spoon.

A majority of the stuff I can think of involves Red and his shapeshifting more and is that really about Ashley anymore?

I don't think that's ironic as you think it is, Golden.

It’s important to note that Ashley’s song in Japanese is very different from the song in English, the Japanese version is more about her being shy and timid then the English one, which is more about her being clumsy and self-righteous. If Wario is anything to go by, where he was based more on his Japanese self, I feel Ashley would be more based on her Japanese self as well.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Speaking of her shapeshifting imp, how would one incorporate Red into her moveset? Canonically, Red has to transform into Ashley's wand for her to do any magic, I believe, so I think he'd be stuck in that role when it came to her moveset.

I imagine he'll stay her wand regularly, but change into the bat or a broom for her recovery, and maybe turn into the imp itself for smashes or jabs or somethin. You could do all kinds of stuff with a shapeshifting imp.

 

[Senselessbreak]

So Nintendo's Fiscal year prediction:
April:
Labo release
Fire Emblem direct before end of April. Not a remake, or a direct sequel.

May:
Pokemon Direct in May. Gen 8 proper.
HW and DKTF ports release
Dillon´s Dead Heat Breakers release

June:
Sushi Striker release
E3 direct reveals Animal Crossing Switch, Yoshi, Retro's DKC 3, first gameplay of Metroid Prime, and a full Smash reveal. 2 newcomers revealed (Spring Man and Crash)
Nintendo invitational ends with Smash reveal: Ridley and a dedicated Smash direct announced for July
Mario Tennis Aces releases

July:
Captain Toad releases.
Smash direct reveals Captain Toad and K Rool

August:

Wario Ware Gold releases
Yoshi Switch releases
Full Nintendo Direct, featuring more details an Animal Crossing, and other upcoming games. FE Switch protag revealed for Smash

September:

Luigis Mansion 3DS release
Fire Emblem Switch releases in Japan
Live stream character reveal: Rayman

October:

Fire Emblem Switch releases worldwide
50 Fact Smash bros video. Reveals Decidueye and Rex

November:

Smash releases worldwide
Pokemon releases worldwide

December:
Animal Crossing Switch releases

January:

Mario and Luigi BiS release

Feb:

Bayo 3 release

 

[Radical Bones]

Ashley's been seen flying on a broom, shooting energy from her wand, making potions, lighting candles, with a spell book, hanging out with Red etc. There's plenty there for a moveset.

 

[IronTed]

So Nintendo's Fiscal year prediction:
April:
Labo release
Fire Emblem direct before end of April. Not a remake, or a direct sequel.

May:
Pokemon Direct in May. Gen 8 proper.
HW and DKTF ports release
Dillon´s Dead Heat Breakers release

June:
Sushi Striker release
E3 direct reveals Animal Crossing Switch, Yoshi, Retro's DKC 3, first gameplay of Metroid Prime, and a full Smash reveal. 2 newcomers revealed (Spring Man and Crash)
Nintendo invitational ends with Smash reveal: Ridley and a dedicated Smash direct announced for July
Mario Tennis Aces releases

July:
Captain Toad releases.
Smash direct reveals Captain Toad and K Rool

August:

Wario Ware Gold releases
Yoshi Switch releases
Full Nintendo Direct, featuring more details an Animal Crossing, and other upcoming games. FE Switch protag revealed for Smash

September:

Luigis Mansion 3DS release
Fire Emblem Switch releases in Japan
Live stream character reveal: Rayman

October:

Fire Emblem Switch releases worldwide
50 Fact Smash bros video. Reveals Decidueye and Rex

November:

Smash releases worldwide
Pokemon releases worldwide

December:
Animal Crossing Switch releases

January:

Mario and Luigi BiS release

Feb:

Bayo 3 release

Is there a particular reason you expect Nintendo to drop a big release in December? Because they generally don't do that.

 

[Deleted member]

Isabelle literally has a functioning and active role in her games where she takes place in the gameplay at hand.

Ashley is well...in WarioWare, where she's just hosting mini-games.

WarioWare is literally just mini-games with funny little bits in between. All we know about Ashley is she's a mediocre witch and what's stated in her theme song. While she sounds fun and I support her. You can't exactly make her make someone's pants big or turn them into a spoon.

A majority of the stuff I can think of involves Red and his shapeshifting more and is that really about Ashley anymore?

I don't think that's ironic as you think it is, Golden.

So the fact she's a witch....that can use magic spells to hex people with.....can zap people with lightning from her staff.....can fly on a broom (which is actually what her game in Game & Wario is about), can create killer plant monsters, etc.....is not enough.

While literally being someone's secretary is enough to work with for a friendly Shih Tzu.


I give up. I just....give up.

 

[Hinata]

Ashley's been seen flying on a broom, shooting energy from her wand, making potions, lighting candles, with a spell book, hanging out with Red etc. There's plenty there for a moveset.

I'm fairly certain her minigame in Game & Wario would offer some good material for a moveset.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Is there a particular reason you expect Nintendo to drop a big release in December? Because they generally don't do that.

Wild world released December 5, 2005 and is the best selling AC to date.

Also City Folk released near that on November 20, 2008 (with a worldwide release in Dec), and Amiibo Festival and Pocket Camp both launched in late November.

So I'd say expect Pokemon and Smash early to mid Nov, and Animal Crossing early Dec.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think Ashley has some of the most obvious potential out of many of the expected newcomers, honestly. It doesn't take heavy thought to create a functioning moveset out of Red, potions, and black magic. And her Final Smash was already in Smash as her assist trophy. Just put that on steroids.

 

[Hinata]

One more thing to add to the Ashley discussion: It would be pretty easy to include some RNG elements into her moveset, considering that her character card in Game & Wario says she can only successfully cast spells "40% of the time".

Obviously, don't give her specials and stuff THAT high of a failure rate, but a mechanic where her moves might occasionally fail/do less damage/some other negative effect could be interesting.

 

[RandomAce]

So Nintendo's Fiscal year prediction:

November:

Smash releases worldwide
Pokemon releases worldwide.

I really doubt they will release Smash and Pokémon so close to each other in the same month. They would canabalize sales from each other since they’re both very big games and people don’t have enough money to buy both of them at once forcing people to choose only one of them, and losing out on customers once the hype of the games dies down.

They’ll have to separate them by a couple of months to maximize profits.

 

[IronTed]

Wild world released December 5, 2005 and is the best selling AC to date.

Also City Folk released near that on November 20, 2008, and Amiibo Festival and Pocket Camp both launched in late November.

So I'd say expect Pokemon and Smash early to mid Nov, and Animal Crossing early Dec.

Wild World was over a decade ago though. Recently Nintendo hasn't opted for December releases, even for New Leaf.

Pokemon hypothetically is probably November, Smash as well. Although Smash could be a September release. It depends on what the rest of the lineup is.

 

[InTheAir]

Quick question, anyone recommend any GC controllers for anyone just getting into Smash? I want to anticipate any official GC-Switch Nintendo stuff running out of stock as soon as the Smash announcement happens, but I just want any recommendations for a controller/adapter combo that'll work on Dolphin as well as Smash 5 in the future.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

One more thing to add to the Ashley discussion: It would be pretty easy to include some RNG elements into her moveset, considering that her character card in Game & Wario says she can only successfully cast spells "40% of the time".

Obviously, don't give her specials and stuff THAT high of a failure rate, but a mechanic where her moves might occasionally fail/do less damage/some other negative effect could be interesting.

I think intrinsic failure mechanics are just bad, tripping being the prime example. I think a better direction would be have a move that shares an rng mechanic with Villagers turnips, where there's one that is bad compared to the best version, but is still actually functional.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Look.

I have never read a single moveset or even thought of one for Ashley. And you know why?

I've played WarioWare and typically only just focused on the micro-games, you know the actual gameplay. Since story has never really mattered there or much of anything else really to me. Nor has WarioWare ever been a favorite series of mine.

I just have found Ashley nifty because of her design and the fact she's a witch. Her theme song is also quite catchy.

She's by far a super favorite Nintendo character so I haven't really given her THAT much thought. And all I felt was ''She can't just be a standard witch."

Because that's all I've known about her from my time with her as a game character. That she's a cool looking witch an imp buddy and she fails her spells a lot.

That's all the thought I've put into her or really WarioWare in general. Because they're not super heavy get into them games for me. They're light stupid breezy fair for me.

I really have to make it clear that ya'll making me feel really dumb right now. though. Particularly Golden. It's his wording himself yet again.

Just because someone is a hyper fan of one character and can create a moveset for them while you can't and then they have trouble visualizing a moveset for another character even if they're this apparently super obvious moveset to you there's no reason to italicize character names, call it ironic and word yourself in such a ''done" manner.

 

[Senselessbreak]

I really doubt they will release Smash and Pokémon so close to each other in the same month. They would canabalize sales from each other since they’re both very big games and people don’t have enough money to buy both of them at once forcing people to choose only one of them, and losing out on customers once the hype of the games dies down.

They’ll have to separate them by a couple of months to maximize profits.

Smash Wii U and Pokemon ORAS released on the same day. Mario 3D World and A Link Between Worlds released on the same day. Same day releases is not an issue for Nintendo, nor is it an issue for Nintendo fans. If you were going to by both, you are going to get both regardless of the release day. Same day releases just means I need to make less trips to the store. So releasing in the same months is a literal non issue.

 

[monadoboy]

Not comfortable with the idea of smashing Isabelle to shreds. She's a clumsy cute secretary that doesn't deserve to be Falcon Punched. Honestly she would be the only character I'd hate to play against.

That aside, I've been thinking about Assist Trophies and Final Smashes and I wish they made them useful. Same with Final Smashes. I don't even remember most of the assists/Final Smash in Smash 4, everyone I've played with preferred items off. I remember the assists that made people salty, tho.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Look.

I have never read a single moveset or even thought of one for Ashley. And you know why?

I've played WarioWare and typically only just focused on the micro-games, you know the actual gameplay. Since story has never really mattered there or much of anything else really to me. Nor has WarioWare ever been a favorite series of mine.

I just have found Ashley nifty because of her design and the fact she's a witch. Her theme song is also quite catchy.

She's by far a super favorite Nintendo character so I haven't really given her THAT much thought. And all I felt was ''She can't just be a standard witch."

Because that's all I've known about her from my time with her as a VG game character. That she's a cool looking with an imp buddy and she fails her spells a lot.

That's all the thought I've put into her or really WarioWare in general. Because they're not super heavy get into them games for me. They're light stupid breezy fair for me.

I really have to make it clear that ya'll making me feel really dumb right now. though. Particularly Golden. It's his wording himself yet again.

Just because someone is a hyper fan of one character and can create a moveset for them while you can't and then they have trouble visualizing a moveset for another character even if they're this apparently super obvious moveset to you there's no reason to italicize character names, call it ironic and word yourself in such a ''done" manner.

Or you know, you can make a moveset out of nowhere and have it be unique. We see Fox and Captain Falcon, who have never been outside of their Airwings and Blue Falcon, have a moveset out of nowhere and it became catchy and acceptable. Fox with a speedy and blaster moveset from the items in StarFox series and Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch became a meme

So if they can do moves for them, Wii Fit Trainer with the yoga kinds of moves, then they can ****ing make a moveset for Ashley.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Look.

I have never read a single moveset or even thought of one for Ashley. And you know why?

I've played WarioWare and typically only just focused on the micro-games, you know the actual gameplay. Since story has never really mattered there or much of anything else really to me. Nor has WarioWare ever been a favorite series of mine.

I just have found Ashley nifty because of her design and the fact she's a witch. Her theme song is also quite catchy.

She's by far a super favorite Nintendo character so I haven't really given her THAT much thought. And all I felt was ''She can't just be a standard witch."

Because that's all I've known about her from my time with her as a VG game character. That she's a cool looking with an imp buddy and she fails her spells a lot.

That's all the thought I've put into her or really WarioWare in general. Because they're not super heavy get into them games for me. They're light stupid breezy fair for me.

I really have to make it clear that ya'll making me feel really dumb right now. though. Particularly Golden. It's his wording himself yet again.

Just because someone is a hyper fan of one character and can create a moveset for them while you can't and then they have trouble visualizing a moveset for another character even if they're this apparently super obvious moveset to you there's no reason to italicize character names, call it ironic and word yourself in such a ''done" manner.

I mean this in a 100% non-aggressive way and just think this is a better way to approach these situations. You shouldn't say a character doesn't have much potential if you don't know a lot about them. If you don't know much about a character, rather than saying they seem like they wouldn't be able to effectively do something, ask the thread "what makes that character interesting?", or "what would they do?"
Before comparing a character you don't know a lot about to a character you do know some things about, have people clarify what that character does.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Safest character? Pikachu.
Oh, you wanted newcomers?
As much as I'd love to say K. Rool or the ALLMIGHTY THWOMP, I've been burned too many times to say so. I'd put some faith in Captain Toad, to be honest. He's one of the few "stars" that arised from the Wii U era, alongside Inklings and to an extent Shovel Boy, Elma and the Hyrule Warriors girls. Mario almost always gets new fighters, so hes on my radar.
As for Isabelle... never was into Animal Crossing, so I never considered her. Popular? I guess. AC is big enough to get a second character, but I don't know what she'd do. It would be hilarious if one of her attacks was her running over her enemies with the RV from Pocket Camp, though.

Speaking of mobile... do you guys think it will be represented in any way shape or form in the game, DLC or not? Pokemon GO and Miitomo would be likely to get anything at all base game, but nothing much more than trophies. It's an interesting new pillar of Nintendo that I feel they're at least gonna acknowledge this time.

Quick question, anyone recommend any GC controllers for anyone just getting into Smash? I want to anticipate any official GC-Switch Nintendo stuff running out of stock as soon as the Smash announcement happens, but I just want any recommendations for a controller/adapter combo that'll work on Dolphin as well as Smash 5 in the future.

I use my old GC controllers and the Smash 4 one I got a few years back (same thing with a decal). I also use the official GC usb adapter to play on Wii U and Dolphin. You need to do a little work to get it running with Dolphin, though. They may be a little costly nowadays, but they work great, and Switch actually uses them too (you cant optimize GC controls at this time, though)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I never once said it was impossible to make a moveset for Ashley though.

So ya'll can stop with that bull****. I said her problem might be that she's a rep for a microgame series with a man who is known for trying to remain true to a series that the person came from.

Ya'll have given good examples of what she can do that would also count as staying true to her game. So you know....good for you guys.

Yay?

But some of ya'll are getting a little unnecessarily snooty and hostile about it. So take ya'll snootyness and sit on it. I'mma go do something else while ya'll chill the **** out.

 

[Freduardo]

You could make a move set for Ashley based off the lyrics from her song alone.

You could make a moveset for Isabelle.

But let’s talk reality. Let’s talk likelihood.

A Virtual Boy style moveset for Nester. Funky Bowling.

I see the Nintendo power logo on my switch all the time. And I see the effects the Virtual Boy had on my burnt out retinas all the time too.

(The above poster may not actually have a firm grasp on reality or likelihood)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Also I don't like it when mods see people being ass hats to a user and they like the post.

That **** needs to stop too.

 

[Blargg888]

Also I don't like it when mods see people being asshats to a user and they like the post.

That **** needs to stop too.

Kinda weird how you say that people shouldn't be so snooty to you, then proceed to tell people what they should or shouldn't like.

That's not up to you to decide.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Can we all calm down? The conversation is over, and the mods shouldn't have to tell us every 3 days to be less aggressive.

Why don't we (calmly) come up with ways Red, the shapeshifting imp, can work for Ashley or something?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Kinda weird how you say that people shouldn't be so snooty to you, then proceed to tell people what they should or shouldn't like.

That's not up to you to decide.

When.

The.

Actual.

****.

Have.

I.

Ever.

Did.

This?!

I don't give two flying Pikachus what anyone else likes? And never have told someone to stop liking something or like something else?

I would never do this because it goes against pretty much everything I stand for as a person. If you wanna like something. Like something.

It's almost like you have never even met me at all.

 

[Chandeelure]

Can we all calm down?

What did you say?! You wanna fight?!

lol, seriously guys, so much drama for nothing.

 

[InTheAir]

I use my old GC controllers and the Smash 4 one I got a few years back (same thing with a decal). I also use the official GC usb adapter to play on Wii U and Dolphin. You need to do a little work to get it running with Dolphin, though. They may be a little costly nowadays, but they work great, and Switch actually uses them too (you cant optimize GC controls at this time, though)

Crap, I'm looking at these prices and I think I might just wait for the Switch models... even the Wii U Smash controllers are $120 on Amazon. I think my best shot at getting an affordable controller is getting a third-party one that emulates the GC's design, or diving into the used market.