Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Retroend]

It's not luck when tons of people voted for her.

Of course she isn't iconic. That wasn't the point of the choice. Unlike the rest.

Nintendo was interested in promoting and publishing her games. That could be called "pure luck" if you want. But it had nothing to do with her being in Smash, as that's a completely different scenario.

i still call it pure luck. if people didn't vote for her, she wouldn't be in the game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Will Olimar lose the White & Purple Pikmin and gain Winged and Rock Pikmin like in "Hey! Pikmin" (with the jet pack as his recovery)?

Or will Alph become a separate fighter and take on the Winged and Rock Pikmin in place of White & Purple Pikmin?

I was outraged that this is not what happened in Super Smash Bros for Wii U. But, that was probably Alph's only chance given that Pikmin 3 was new at the time. Now its 5 years old. Alph is currently established as a costume. And it would be easier to give Olimar the Rock & Winged Pikmin and keep it that way.

I just hope they can give Alph the S.S. Drake when you select him as a costume.

 

[StormC]

The closest analogue to Bayonetta is probably Pokemon, which is only partially owned by Nintendo, split with GameFreak and the Pokemon Company.

If Bayonetta 3 is a big success, does that mean Sega could fund and publish a Bayonetta 4? Seems like Nintendo is determined to keep her no matter what.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think Nintendo wants to keep her and it's apparent at this rate. So even if there's a Bayo 4 I'd imagine it'd be Nintendo only as well.

The real question is how Sega would even handle Bayo 4 on other consoles if Nintendo decides to let her go and stop promoting her. Because it's hard to drop an audience into a series that they've missed two installments on and always will.

 

[Blargg888]

Will Olimar lose the White & Purple Pikmin and gain Winged and Rock Pikmin like in "Hey! Pikmin" (with the jet pack as his recovery)?

Or will Alph become a separate fighter and take on the Winged and Rock Pikmin in place of White & Purple Pikmin?

I was outraged that this is not what happened in Super Smash Bros for Wii U. But, that was probably Alph's only chance given that Pikmin 3 was new at the time. Now its 5 years old. Alph is currently established as a costume. And it would be easier to give Olimar the Rock & Winged Pikmin and keep it that way.

I just hope they can give Alph the S.S. Drake when you select him as a costume.

Maybe if they have extra time again, they could make Alph a semi-clone with Winged Pikmin and Rock Pikmin. I doubt they'd add him as a newcomer at this point, though I wouldn't mind if he was.

Personally, I'd like to see Olimar keep his Purple and White Pikmin.

 

[Retroend]

has the recent leak been debunked or is it still alive?

 

[Polan]

i still call it pure luck. if people didn't vote for her, she wouldn't be in the game.

TIL that winning the vote is pure luck.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Maybe if they have extra time again, they could make Alph a semi-clone with Winged Pikmin and Rock Pikmin. I doubt they'd add him as a newcomer at this point, though I wouldn't mind if he was.

Personally, I'd like to see Olimar keep his Purple and White Pikmin.

I'd like to see Olimar move on to Rock & Winged Pikmin

1. Updating characters is good. Especially when it is appropriate. I like being able to go back to a veteran as if they were a newcomer, which is why I'm excited for Link.
2. Rock & Winged Pikmin are more interesting and have more potential for unique effects. Even though Pikmin 2 is one of my favorite video games of all time and I LOVE White & Purple Pikmin.
3. It makes Alph as a costume MUCH more comfortable. Alph with White & Purple Pikmin and a Hocatate Ship just didn't work for me. I just couldn't pretend it was Alph. I knew I was playing as Olimar. But, beyond the Pikmin themselves, Alph is exactly the same. If you give Olimar the Rock & Winged Pikmin, it fits both of them perfectly simultaneously and you don't need to spend unnecessary time on making them separate.

 

[MrReyes96]

Another capcom rep: Phoenix Wright
Another sega rep: I would say Jack Frost, but cloud set the precedent for popular characters instead so I would say joker from p5

 

[ErenJager]

That's not why she got in, however. She was a ballot pick. So she's an exception to how 3rd parties are often picked.

In fact, Geno is the only other one Sakurai has clearly looked at that isn't an iconic 3rd party beyond Bayonetta that we've known of.

He considered Heihachi from Tekken as well.

 

[StormC]

Why are we concerned with repping corporations? We don't owe them anything. I'd much rather focus on characters we actually want to see than fulfilling an arbitrary quota so these companies can get their advertisements into the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He considered Heihachi from Tekken as well.

Yep. Iconic. He's another major fighting game character. In the same reign as Cloud when it comes to iconicness. While there's a minority that won't recognize the character, they're far from niche and extremely notable.

Geno is, like Bayonetta, the only non-iconic 3rd party looked at that we know of at this point. We don't know anything about other Mii costumes like Lloyd, as that could just as easily be a "well, a lot of people voted for him on the ballot, so why not?" Coupled with being owned by Bandai-Namco, and it was easy.

 

[ErenJager]

Yep. Iconic. He's another major fighting game character. In the same reign as Cloud when it comes to iconicness. While there's a minority that won't recognize the character, they're far from niche and extremely notable.

Geno is, like Bayonetta, the only non-iconic 3rd party looked at that we know of at this point. We don't know anything about other Mii costumes like Lloyd, as that could just as easily be a "well, a lot of people voted for him on the ballot, so why not?" Coupled with being owned by Bandai-Namco, and it was easy.

Iconic is a relatively loose term.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Iconic is a relatively loose term.

Not really. It's about being recognizable by the majority of people. Some are more recognizable than others, obviously. MegaMan isn't on the same level as someone like Sonic. And Cloud isn't on the same level as MegaMan either.

It's a pretty easy term to understand.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'd love to have Joker in Smash. (Or Morgana :3)

(From D1's Instagram)

 

[ErenJager]

Not really. It's about being recognizable by the majority of people. Some are more recognizable than others, obviously. MegaMan isn't on the same level as someone like Sonic. And Cloud isn't on the same level as MegaMan either.

It's a pretty easy term to understand.

You just put icons into tiers.

Right there, it's not black or white. It's grey, hence loose.

It's relative to the majority/ audience.

 

[StormC]

Yep. Iconic. He's another major fighting game character. In the same reign as Cloud when it comes to iconicness. While there's a minority that won't recognize the character, they're far from niche and extremely notable.

I wouldn't put Heihachi that high. I'd bet way more gamers recognize Cloud than Heihachi if you just showed a picture of them.

 

[Blargg888]

I'd like to see Olimar move on to Rock & Winged Pikmin

1. Updating characters is good. Especially when it is appropriate. I like being able to go back to a veteran as if they were a newcomer, which is why I'm excited for Link.
2. Rock & Winged Pikmin are more interesting and have more potential for unique effects. Even though Pikmin 2 is one of my favorite video games of all time and I LOVE White & Purple Pikmin.
3. It makes Alph as a costume MUCH more comfortable. Alph with White & Purple Pikmin and a Hocatate Ship just didn't work for me. I just couldn't pretend it was Alph. I knew I was playing as Olimar. But, beyond the Pikmin themselves, Alph is exactly the same. If you give Olimar the Rock & Winged Pikmin, it fits both of them perfectly simultaneously and you don't need to spend unnecessary time on making them separate.

True, but giving Olimar Rock and Winged Pikmin would change his moveset. Sure, you could argue that Rock and Purple Pikmin can act the same way, but Winged and White Pikmin are noticeably different.

Also, while it's true that Olimar doesn't have Rock Pikmin, he does have Winged Pikmin. He just doesn't attack with them.

I feel like it'd be cool if they could incorporate Rock Pikmin into his current moveset as a sixth type of Pikmin that act differently.
For example, Rock Pikmin could be excellent shield breakers, in reference to their ability to easily break down glass structures.
That way, Olimar would have all 7 Pikmin colors in his moveset, without having to remove Purples and Whites.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I do think there are tiers of icons and what not. Like I'm going to just use Sonic and Street Fighter.

Sure Sonic and Ryu are the faces and the major icons but...

Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Robotnik/Eggman are known by a lot of people.

Street Fighter has Chun Li, Ken, Cammy, Bison, and Guile as characters that are quite well known by people. You can even argue for Zangief and Akuma as they've been used to rep the series outside of it's games in what would be pretty major crossovers that would catch a lot of attention.

So I'd still consider all these people gaming icons just not of the same calibur as the leads of their franchises.

 

[Pakky]

I do think there are tiers of icons and what not. Like I'm going to just use Sonic and Street Fighter.

Sure Sonic and Ryu are the faces and the major icons but...

Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Robotnik/Eggman are known by a lot of people.

Street Fighter has Chun Li, Ken, Cammy, Bison, and Guile as characters that are quite well known by people. You can even argue for Zangief and Akuma as they've been used to rep the series outside of it's games in what would be pretty major crossovers that would catch a lot of attention.

So I'd still consider all these people gaming icons just not of the same calibur as the leads of their franchises.

I think Chun Li is a big deal personally, she always accompanies Ryu and when I think of female icons in gaming she comes to mind.

Eggman is also a huge deal well as the original trinity of sonic guys.

All good choices really.

NiGTHs I remember fondly but they aren't that big.

Dig Dug is a big classic game for Namco, though.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't usually talk about King K. Rool because the overwhelming worship and expectation of him in the Smash community kind of turns me off of being a part of it.

But, if King K. Rool finally gets in this time for whatever reason, I'd like to see a slight redesign that makes him look truly terrifying.

I wanna see the reptilian skin stretching from his neck.

I want those teeth longer and sharper than when they were 64-bit polygons.

I want that eyeball PULSING. Blood red.

I wanna see my reflection in that golden belly.

I want King K. Rool to be the first Super Smash Bros character that really looks like he's ready to tear you to shreds with his bare teeth and claws. Make Bowser look like a cuddly cartoon friend.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think Chun Li is a big deal personally, she always accompanies Ryu and when I think of female icons in gaming she comes to mind.

Yeah. I listed her there, but I think she's a pretty high calibur gaming icon not just because of her gender, but because she represents Capcom and Street Fighter as much as Ryu does to the world.

I think she was even more noticable in Ready Player One for example than Ryu was in his cameo.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Why are we concerned with repping corporations? We don't owe them anything. I'd much rather focus on characters we actually want to see than fulfilling an arbitrary quota

The same reason we feel the need to fill arbitrary quotas for first parties lol

 

[MrReyes96]

Why are we concerned with repping corporations? We don't owe them anything. I'd much rather focus on characters we actually want to see than fulfilling an arbitrary quota so these companies can get their advertisements into the game.

Well those corporations have characters that are deserving of being in smash, capcom and sega have more than others.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Someone compiled a list of all the video game characters that Ryu has met or fought through his travels in crossovers. Someone should do that for Chun Li because I feel as if she's gotta be up there when it comes to how many battles she's fought across many crossovers as well.

 

[Pakky]

Someone compiled a list of all the video game characters that Ryu has met or fought through his travels in crossovers. Someone should do that for Chun Li because I feel as if she's gotta be up there when it comes to how many battles she's fought across many crossovers as well.

Yeah because she's appeared in way more than Ken. MvC doesn't even have Ken on the roster in the most recent entries.

 

[Blargg888]

Someone compiled a list of all the video game characters that Ryu has met or fought through his travels in crossovers. Someone should do that for Chun Li because I feel as if she's gotta be up there when it comes to how many battles she's fought across many crossovers as well.

SF x Tekken, Namco x Capcom, Capcom Fighting Evolution, Project x Zone 1 and 2, Super Smash Bros., Marvel vs Capcom, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, etc.

Yeah, Ryu really gets around.

I think Chun Li is a big deal personally, she always accompanies Ryu and when I think of female icons in gaming she comes to mind.

Eggman is also a huge deal well as the original trinity of sonic guys.

All good choices really.

NiGTHs I remember fondly but they aren't that big.

Dig Dug is a big classic game for Namco, though.

What if Dig Dug got into Smash, and he still made the same noise whenever he took a single step? I'd love that, personally.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Someone compiled a list of all the video game characters that Ryu has met or fought through his travels in crossovers. Someone should do that for Chun Li because I feel as if she's gotta be up there when it comes to how many battles she's fought across many crossovers as well.

After Ready Player One. . .that's basically everyone lol.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

SF x Tekken, Namco x Capcom, Capcom Fighting Evolution, Project x Zone 1 and 2, Super Smash Bros., Marvel vs Capcom, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, etc.

Yeah, Ryu really gets around.


What if Dig Dug got into Smash, and he still made the same noise whenever he took a single step? I'd love that, personally.

Dig Dug's entire moveset is pumping air into people til they explode and instantly die.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It'll never happen, but a Smash match with Princess Peach, Samus Aran, Chun Li, and Lara Croft would just be insane.

You'd have the female trail blazers of gaming all on one screen for the first time in the history of gaming.

 

[Pakky]

What if Dig Dug got into Smash, and he still made the same noise whenever he took a single step? I'd love that, personally.

Fam, you got me. I made a move list for him a while back, though I am bad at navigating through my history, lol.

 

[Hinata]

It'll never happen, but a Smash match with Princess Peach, Samus Aran, Chun Li, and Lara Croft would just be insane.

You'd have the female trail blazers of gaming all on one screen for the first time in the history of gaming.

I feel like that'd be pretty comparable to the fact that you can have Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, and Mega Man all fight each other in Smash 4. Both scenarios seem pretty damn iconic.

 

[Blargg888]

Dig Dug's entire moveset is pumping air into people til they explode and instantly die.

And when they die, they stay dead. You can't select them from the CSS anymore, their slot just disappears, leaving behind an empty void.

Not even DLC can save them now.

Dig Dug has no alternate colors, so only one player can choose him. The roster whittles down until there is only one character left.

Only Dig Dug.

Just Dig-Dug.

Someone compiled a list of all the video game characters that Ryu has met or fought through his travels in crossovers. Someone should do that for Chun Li because I feel as if she's gotta be up there when it comes to how many battles she's fought across many crossovers as well.

That list isn't entirely accurate, now that I'm remembering. It included all of the characters from X Zone 1 and 2, despite the fact that Ryu technically doesn't fight all of them, he has just met most of them.

 

[Pakky]

Question, with Bayo and the space animals present, why can't Larua use her guns?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

And when they die, they stay dead. You can't select them from the CSS anymore, their slot just disappears, leaving behind an empty void.

Not even DLC can save them now.

Dig Dug has no alternate colors, so only one player can choose him. The roster whittles down until there is only one character left.

Only Dig Dug.

Just Dig-Dug.


That list isn't entirely accurate, now that I'm remembering. It included all of the characters from X Zone 1 and 2, despite the fact that Ryu technically doesn't fight all of them, he has just met most of them.

Sometimes this thread says things that make me create things I regret.

Spoiler

I think Dig Dug could be a really fun AT. He could travel through the stage the chase people, and when he catches someone, he pumps damage into them which eventually launches them away.

 

[StormC]

Question, with Bayo and the space animals present, why can't Larua use her guns?

Lara uses real guns. With bullets. Even Bayonetta's guns are magic. She'd probably use explosives like Snake.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

So between the two major Atlus titles, SMT and Persona, there have been roughly 15.7m units sold by 2017, a very respectable number. Also, there was the Atlus developed Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, which obviously was Nintendo allowing Atlus to use Nintendo property. How do people feel about any Atlus character being in Smash, regardless of whether they're from SMT or Persona?

My ideal situation would be Persona 5 being announced for the Switch alongside Joker being revealed to join Smash 5. That's obviously wishful thinking, though. What are others thoughts?

EDITS: Made several edits for typos/potential misinformation. Hope its more clear now

 

[Deleted member]

Considering he also said he wanted to put him in Brawl and had him on a poll before even that?

I think Geno's someone he's had his eye on for a while.

As for Bayonetta. The cutest thing about all the hatred she gets is that even if she hadn't won the ballot. She'd be in Smash Switch.

She's practically Nintendo's character now essentially and they'd be putting the pressure on Sakurai to add her anyways.

So it's cute that the haters think she wouldn't be in Smash either way.

The thing is, the ballot is the only way she would have been playable anyway. Like it or not, her franchise only has sequels because Nintendo keeps funding them and Bayonetta games are not known for being successful - par for the course for hack and slash games. If you want an iconic hack and slash character, you go with Ryu Hayabusa or Dante, both of which are among the most important characters in the genre. Had she done poorly on the ballot, she would have never gotten in, Bayonetta 3 or not.

She got in because the hardcore gamers wanted her in and pushed for her inclusion. The fact that she did merits speculation on what types of characters might get picked from the ballot.

As for Geno, I wonder if he could get in should Square get a second character. I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai went to get him and Cloud but because he didn't have the funds for two Square Enix characters, settled for Cloud and Geno as a Mii Costume. With a mainstream gaming budget that's probably larger than ever, maybe we'll get another one alongside Cloud this game. If not Geno, maybe someone like Lara Croft or Slime.

 

[APC99]

The thing is, the ballot is the only way she would have been playable anyway. Like it or not, her franchise only has sequels because Nintendo keeps funding them and Bayonetta games are not known for being successful - par for the course for hack and slash games. If you want an iconic hack and slash character, you go with Ryu Hayabusa or Dante, both of which are among the most important characters in the genre. Had she done poorly on the ballot, she would have never gotten in, Bayonetta 3 or not.

She got in because the hardcore gamers wanted her in and pushed for her inclusion. The fact that she did merits speculation on what types of characters might get picked from the ballot.

I am interested in how Bayonetta's inclusion in Smash has affected her popularity.

There's sure to be a lot of people like myself who picked up the Bayonetta series after her reveal in Smash, so I'm curious how well Bayonetta 3 will do at launch in comparison to Bayonetta 2 on both Wii U and Switch.

 

[Senselessbreak]

has the recent leak been debunked or is it still alive?

Still alive