Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KarneraMythos]

TPC confirmed dead, you heard it first.

I'mma have to agree with @Shroob for at least after the August Direct, Smash Ultimate speculation wasn't fun anymore. I legitimately believe that if the Grinch Hoax was a reality, we would've had the best of all timelines. What we got however was a terrible Nintendo Direct on a simple fundamental level that caused quite a divide more than pre-November Direct.

Maybe JC from Nintendo is right about the DLC being a "must-have", but they also thought Smash Tour and Corrin (pre-Ultimate) were good ideas.

I'd say that the whole mess behind the Grinch Hoax was that it never intended to fall apart as badly as it did. The November Direct deconfirming it wasn't the issue so much as it was all the padding that occurred between the first trailer and the DLC stuff, and even then, they managed to sneak in a couple of Switch newcomers in the form of Assist Trophies and outfits. They didn't just throw a ton of characters under the bus. They lined up a bunch of characters and fired a bullet to each head, while the Spirits are heavily implied to be in the game for a not-so-pleasant reason.

I like Incineroar, Ken, and Piranha Plant just fine, but they're never going to live down the utter tragedy that was November Direct. Forget the Grinch Hoax at this point: It's the deconfirm-y nature of everything unveiled to us throughout most of it, the worrying aspect of Nintendo being heavily involved with the post-launch DLC, and the ambiguous state of support for a game that could easily reel in more members in fanbases that don't have their most-wanted yet.

Post-November (in general) also taught me that Sakurai isn't super-jazzed about some of the fandom choices out there, which is a shame. Then again, given how little left there is to add in the game that won't cause people to froth violently because it's not the character they wanted makes it heavily unlikely that Sakurai would add anyone that would make up for a lot of deconfirmed characters.

Geno and Lloyd are clear-cut examples of characters that would be interesting to implement in the roster, but other characters with similar fanbases just make them super-unlikely too. With Nintendo thrown in the mix, the Fighter's Pass could look like one of the following assortments:
-Character-shilling for unreleased games of Early-Bird Cameos
-3rd-party characters for games that we at least know about
-Missing Spirits like the heavily-discussed Sylux, Adeline, Porky, etc.
-Characters all across the board as long as their games are on the Switch and help it to sell in some way

Bonus:
-General characters for unreleased games that we don't know about at all, but are tied to remakes/ports which make these characters promotional material, but not for the same reasons as the above examples. This makes them "surprises" of a sort

 

[BlondeLombax]

While we're on the topic of DLC, I wanted to bring something up that I think should preferably be said.
Many fans believe that a character getting into Smash as anything but a fighter means that they are automatically null from DLC options. This extends to the Assist Trophies and Poke Ball Pokemon in particular, and people are divided over the current situation on Spirits. Many think that to add one of these characters as a fighter, then they would have to remove their previous role, which would ultimately make no sense. However, I had a thought; what if characters already in the game in some form could still be DLC, but their previous roles remained intact as well?

BUT THAT WOULDN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE!

Sense has nothing to do with it; there's no telling what happens with these sorts of games.

IT'S BREAKING SAKURAI'S RULES!

They're not Sakurai's rules, they're the fandom's rules, and these "rules" have been broken multiple times in the past, most particularly when Sakurai agreed with the fans (Ridley is too big, too many Fire Emblem characters, et cetera).

SAKURAI SAID SO ON MIIVERSE!

He did. Nearly five years ago. You know what else he disagreed with? Ridley. A lot can change in a little under half a decade.

NO DEV WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS!

That's because it's already been done with other fighting games. Croagunk was initially a support Pokemon in Pokken Tournament, and wound up hopping its way into the roster. Android 17 was previously just an element of Android 18's moveset in Dragon Ball Fighterz, only to show up at a later date flying solo from his sister. Heck, an instance of this already exists within Ultimate, with Robin retaining Chrom within Pair-Up as his Final Smash, despite Chrom himself becoming a playable character. When it's been done before, it can be done again.

THOSE FANS DON'T DESERVE THEIR CHARACTERS/THEY'RE JUST BANDWAGONING!

Okay, this argument is just being petty, and just as much of bandwagoning as they claim those other fans to be going through. Yes, there may be some characters with less than favorable vocal minorities (Waluigi, Ashley, and Shadow come to mind), but that doesn't mean you should disregard the passion and love from the bright side of the fanbase, ironic or not.

VERGE &/OR OTHER LEAKERS SAID THEY WEREN'T HAPPENING!

I'm not ashamed to admit it, I was a little bit blindsided by Verge's accuracy. Even then, though, I'd still advise you to never believe in leaks until they're either true or false, no matter how credible the source may be *cough*grinch*cough*

I HATE YOU FOR SUGGESTING THIS!

I know

 

[Idon]

While we're on the topic of DLC, I wanted to bring something up that I think should preferably be said.
Many fans believe that a character getting into Smash as anything but a fighter means that they are automatically null from DLC options. This extends to the Assist Trophies and Poke Ball Pokemon in particular, and people are divided over the current situation on Spirits. Many think that to add one of these characters as a fighter, then they would have to remove their previous role, which would ultimately make no sense. However, I had a thought; what if characters already in the game in some form could still be DLC, but their previous roles remained intact as well?

BUT THAT WOULDN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE!

Sense has nothing to do with it; there's no telling what happens with these sorts of games.

IT'S BREAKING SAKURAI'S RULES!

They're not Sakurai's rules, they're the fandom's rules, and these "rules" have been broken multiple times in the past, most particularly when Sakurai agreed with the fans (Ridley is too big, too many Fire Emblem characters, et cetera).

SAKURAI SAID SO ON MIIVERSE!

He did. Nearly five years ago. You know what else he disagreed with? Ridley. A lot can change in a little under half a decade.

NO DEV WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS!

That's because it's already been done with other fighting games. Croagunk was initially a support Pokemon in Pokken Tournament, and wound up hopping its way into the roster. Android 17 was previously just an element of Android 18's moveset in Dragon Ball Fighterz, only to show up at a later date flying solo from his sister. Heck, an instance of this already exists within Ultimate, with Robin retaining Chrom within Pair-Up as his Final Smash, despite Chrom himself becoming a playable character. When it's been done before, it can be done again.

THOSE FANS DON'T DESERVE THEIR CHARACTERS/THEY'RE JUST BANDWAGONING!

Okay, this argument is just being petty, and just as much of bandwagoning as they claim those other fans to be going through. Yes, there may be some characters with less than favorable vocal minorities (Waluigi, Ashley, and Shadow come to mind), but that doesn't mean you should disregard the passion and love from the bright side of the fanbase, ironic or not.

VERGE &/OR OTHER LEAKERS SAID THEY WEREN'T HAPPENING!

I'm not ashamed to admit it, I was a little bit blindsided by Verge's accuracy. Even then, though, I'd still advise you to never believe in leaks until they're either true or false, no matter how credible the source may be *cough*grinch*cough*

I HATE YOU FOR SUGGESTING THIS!

I know

As much as I'd love for this to be right...
A lot of your logic boils down to "well, ya never know!" and using some pretty bad false equivalency.

 

[BlondeLombax]

As much as I'd love for this to be right...
A lot of your logic boils down to "well, ya never know!" and using some pretty bad false equivalency.

It's more of a morality booster than anything, you're free to believe what you want.

 

[Deleted member]

While we're on the topic of DLC, I wanted to bring something up that I think should preferably be said.
Many fans believe that a character getting into Smash as anything but a fighter means that they are automatically null from DLC options. This extends to the Assist Trophies and Poke Ball Pokemon in particular, and people are divided over the current situation on Spirits. Many think that to add one of these characters as a fighter, then they would have to remove their previous role, which would ultimately make no sense. However, I had a thought; what if characters already in the game in some form could still be DLC, but their previous roles remained intact as well?

BUT THAT WOULDN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE!

Sense has nothing to do with it; there's no telling what happens with these sorts of games.

IT'S BREAKING SAKURAI'S RULES!

They're not Sakurai's rules, they're the fandom's rules, and these "rules" have been broken multiple times in the past, most particularly when Sakurai agreed with the fans (Ridley is too big, too many Fire Emblem characters, et cetera).

SAKURAI SAID SO ON MIIVERSE!

He did. Nearly five years ago. You know what else he disagreed with? Ridley. A lot can change in a little under half a decade.

NO DEV WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS!

That's because it's already been done with other fighting games. Croagunk was initially a support Pokemon in Pokken Tournament, and wound up hopping its way into the roster. Android 17 was previously just an element of Android 18's moveset in Dragon Ball Fighterz, only to show up at a later date flying solo from his sister. Heck, an instance of this already exists within Ultimate, with Robin retaining Chrom within Pair-Up as his Final Smash, despite Chrom himself becoming a playable character. When it's been done before, it can be done again.

THOSE FANS DON'T DESERVE THEIR CHARACTERS/THEY'RE JUST BANDWAGONING!

Okay, this argument is just being petty, and just as much of bandwagoning as they claim those other fans to be going through. Yes, there may be some characters with less than favorable vocal minorities (Waluigi, Ashley, and Shadow come to mind), but that doesn't mean you should disregard the passion and love from the bright side of the fanbase, ironic or not.

VERGE &/OR OTHER LEAKERS SAID THEY WEREN'T HAPPENING!

I'm not ashamed to admit it, I was a little bit blindsided by Verge's accuracy. Even then, though, I'd still advise you to never believe in leaks until they're either true or false, no matter how credible the source may be *cough*grinch*cough*

I HATE YOU FOR SUGGESTING THIS!

I know

Hey you.

I like you.

Something something put this post plaqued on top of website.

 

[Idon]

It's more of a morality booster than anything, you're free to believe what you want.

Well I've flown too close to the sun before.

Wouldn't want any more Icaruses.

 

[perfectchaos83]

While we're on the topic of DLC, I wanted to bring something up that I think should preferably be said.
Many fans believe that a character getting into Smash as anything but a fighter means that they are automatically null from DLC options. This extends to the Assist Trophies and Poke Ball Pokemon in particular, and people are divided over the current situation on Spirits. Many think that to add one of these characters as a fighter, then they would have to remove their previous role, which would ultimately make no sense. However, I had a thought; what if characters already in the game in some form could still be DLC, but their previous roles remained intact as well?

BUT THAT WOULDN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE!

Sense has nothing to do with it; there's no telling what happens with these sorts of games.

IT'S BREAKING SAKURAI'S RULES!

They're not Sakurai's rules, they're the fandom's rules, and these "rules" have been broken multiple times in the past, most particularly when Sakurai agreed with the fans (Ridley is too big, too many Fire Emblem characters, et cetera).

SAKURAI SAID SO ON MIIVERSE!

He did. Nearly five years ago. You know what else he disagreed with? Ridley. A lot can change in a little under half a decade.

NO DEV WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS!

That's because it's already been done with other fighting games. Croagunk was initially a support Pokemon in Pokken Tournament, and wound up hopping its way into the roster. Android 17 was previously just an element of Android 18's moveset in Dragon Ball Fighterz, only to show up at a later date flying solo from his sister. Heck, an instance of this already exists within Ultimate, with Robin retaining Chrom within Pair-Up as his Final Smash, despite Chrom himself becoming a playable character. When it's been done before, it can be done again.

THOSE FANS DON'T DESERVE THEIR CHARACTERS/THEY'RE JUST BANDWAGONING!

Okay, this argument is just being petty, and just as much of bandwagoning as they claim those other fans to be going through. Yes, there may be some characters with less than favorable vocal minorities (Waluigi, Ashley, and Shadow come to mind), but that doesn't mean you should disregard the passion and love from the bright side of the fanbase, ironic or not.

VERGE &/OR OTHER LEAKERS SAID THEY WEREN'T HAPPENING!

I'm not ashamed to admit it, I was a little bit blindsided by Verge's accuracy. Even then, though, I'd still advise you to never believe in leaks until they're either true or false, no matter how credible the source may be *cough*grinch*cough*

I HATE YOU FOR SUGGESTING THIS!

I know

I do particularly like Sakurai's own wording here, "Why close the door when you can add more?"

I don't believe for one second that the Fighter pass we know about contains any sort of Promotions. So, in my mind I only see these as short term "They're not playable" Status. Anything can change, especially if the marketing is right. There are plenty of ways to circumvent their already given roles. What matters here is Does Sakurai or Nintendo see value in promoting certain characters and, to me, I think it's a likely possibility if we get more than one fighters pass. Doubly so if they want to support Smash for as long as possible.

 

[Angelglory]

Between Lloyd and Yuri, I'd end up picking Yuri, honestly. Sure he only has one sword, but he also punches too.

 

[Icedragonadam]

It's not just the dual swords that would make Lloyd stand out and Unique. It's the overall Combo and Battle System the Tales Series uses. It's a mix of RPG and fighting games. You know how Fighting Games uses the standard light-Medium-Hard punch/kick combo? Think of something like that, but with special techs.

The Tales series uses a Lvl 1 Arte(Base) -> Lvl 2 arte(Mid) -> Lvl 3 arte(Arcane). Which can be set to B + specified Direction. Which adds up to 4 slots. While it's unlikely he'll do this in his Smash appearance. Graces used two types of techs in that game's gameplay. A artes are moves with branching trees where you can attack and using attack again before the time frame ends to move up to level 2 arte to level 3 to level 4. It doesn't have to be set here. Which I'll believe what Lloyd would use to represent Tales's combat system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Graces

And here's Lloyd's arte list.

Spoiler: Video

Pretty much any Tales character would be unique using Tale's signature combo system.

Sakurai isn't the type to not pay attention to details of 3rd Party characters(unless your Sonic). Especially the details with Ryu, Cloud's and Bayonetta's movesets.

 

[Bionichute]

i think we can all agree that the game's marketing past the first reveal was very, very bad. no news for months on end, and when we did get news it was isabelle with barely anything to go off of. discussion for isabelle basically instantly went back to speculation because most of her kit was pretty obvious and nothing interesting was in her trailer

another problem was just the general reveal order, k rool being the big one that was placed at a bad time. k rool made headlines, he was a massive, massive character that fans were incredibly happy to see, a major surprise underdog... and he was revealed in the middle of the pre-release. that, alongside the rest of the direct being amazing, made our hopes run wild, which is where the skull kid speculation came in. of course, after that we shortly realized that the only characters left were, to put it frankly, underwhelming.

consider a fundamental difference between the pre-release between smash 4 and ultimate. smash 4 had daily news, maybe something silly and not that interesting, but there was always a chance that next day would have something cool like a new character reveal. ultimate had the uh. blog. which consistent literally entirely of information we knew, and didn't even update frequently. its a disaster that made it seem like the game had barely anything to talk about.

let me tell you, there is a LOT more of this game to show than directs and the blog would leave you to believe. i wish they had revealed any of the stuff we hadn't known about before the leaks happened.

this was a pretty easy fix imo. you could still do the everyone is here reveal, but then just save the videos for when said character is posted on the blog. that would have made it a lot more fun and actually could have provided anything interesting for the months of no news

 

[Deleted member]

Guys. I can't believe it.

****ing Sakurai himself got a reveal.

 

[Deleted member]

Between Lloyd and Yuri, I'd end up picking Yuri, honestly. Sure he only has one sword, but he also punches too.

A swordsman....who uses his fists....?
Unheard of!

 

[osby]

i think we can all agree that the game's marketing past the first reveal was very, very bad.

Nope, speak for yourself.

 

[Bionichute]

Nope, speak for yourself.

did you read the rest of the post where i explained why the marketing is bad or did you just read that bit and get upset

 

[DraginHikari]

i think we can all agree that the game's marketing past the first reveal was very, very bad. no news for months on end, and when we did get news it was isabelle with barely anything to go off of. discussion for isabelle basically instantly went back to speculation because most of her kit was pretty obvious and nothing interesting was in her trailer

another problem was just the general reveal order, k rool being the big one that was placed at a bad time. k rool made headlines, he was a massive, massive character that fans were incredibly happy to see, a major surprise underdog... and he was revealed in the middle of the pre-release. that, alongside the rest of the direct being amazing, made our hopes run wild, which is where the skull kid speculation came in. of course, after that we shortly realized that the only characters left were, to put it frankly, underwhelming.

consider a fundamental difference between the pre-release between smash 4 and ultimate. smash 4 had daily news, maybe something silly and not that interesting, but there was always a chance that next day would have something cool like a new character reveal. ultimate had the uh. blog. which consistent literally entirely of information we knew, and didn't even update frequently. its a disaster that made it seem like the game had barely anything to talk about.

let me tell you, there is a LOT more of this game to show than directs and the blog would leave you to believe. i wish they had revealed any of the stuff we hadn't known about before the leaks happened.

this was a pretty easy fix imo. you could still do the everyone is here reveal, but then just save the videos for when said character is posted on the blog. that would have made it a lot more fun and actually could have provided anything interesting for the months of no news

Frankly, I think people are over blowing the marketing issue. This speculation period was quite a bit shorter then they usually are and people here have a bad habit of working themselves into a frenzy for unnecessary reasons. The community did it to itself, I've not really encountered anyone outside of the online speculation community that had a problem with the marketing the way people here tend to.

 

[google chrom]

Woodman (Megaman) for dlc.

"Nice"
-Woodman 20XX

 

[Ivander]

So....between Yuri and Lloyd I think I would pick Lloyd. Dual swords is at least something slightly different from most other sword users in the game

Between Lloyd and Yuri, I'd end up picking Yuri, honestly. Sure he only has one sword, but he also punches too.

A swordsman....who uses his fists....?
Unheard of!

Yuri can also use Axes. And compared to Ike where Urvan wouldn't really fit with Ike's Smash moveset, Yuri's moveset in his own game remains mainly the same when wielding an axe. So you could give Yuri an alternate outfit where he uses an axe and he could use it with no differences to power, speed, distance and whatnot.

But yeah, Yuri can also punch the **** out of enemies and punch and slash out spirit wolves too.

 

[osby]

did you read the rest of the post where i explained why the marketing is bad or did you just read that bit and get upset

I've read it all and it was all whining about how marketing team didn't pander to speculating fans for a waiting period as short as 9 months.

 

[Idon]

How about a fists-man, that occassionally uses a sword?

Eh?
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh?

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

How about a fists-man, that occassionally uses a sword?

Eh?
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh?

I second that

 

[osby]

How about a fists-man, that occassionally uses a sword?

Eh?
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh?

So, Ganondorf?

 

[Deleted member]

How about a fists-man, that occassionally uses a sword?

Eh?
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh?

Ganondorf laughs at you.

 

[Bionichute]

I've read it all and it was all whining about how marketing team didn't pander to speculating fans for a waiting period as short as 9 months.

they could have literally done anything in those 9 months to make the game look better, which they didn't

 

[Idon]

So, Ganondorf?

Ganondorf laughs at you.

Yeah but with like
Eye laser beams...
and explosions...
and missiles...

HE'S COOL, OK?

 

[osby]

they could have literally done anything in those 9 months to make the game look better, which they didn't

Apart from blog, directs, tournaments and multi-media advertisements?

I think the game looks good either way, and people complaining about the marketing online won't prevent anyone from purchasing the game.

 

[RedrappeR]

i think we can all agree that the game's marketing past the first reveal was very, very bad. no news for months on end, and when we did get news it was isabelle with barely anything to go off of. discussion for isabelle basically instantly went back to speculation because most of her kit was pretty obvious and nothing interesting was in her trailer

another problem was just the general reveal order, k rool being the big one that was placed at a bad time. k rool made headlines, he was a massive, massive character that fans were incredibly happy to see, a major surprise underdog... and he was revealed in the middle of the pre-release. that, alongside the rest of the direct being amazing, made our hopes run wild, which is where the skull kid speculation came in. of course, after that we shortly realized that the only characters left were, to put it frankly, underwhelming.

consider a fundamental difference between the pre-release between smash 4 and ultimate. smash 4 had daily news, maybe something silly and not that interesting, but there was always a chance that next day would have something cool like a new character reveal. ultimate had the uh. blog. which consistent literally entirely of information we knew, and didn't even update frequently. its a disaster that made it seem like the game had barely anything to talk about.

let me tell you, there is a LOT more of this game to show than directs and the blog would leave you to believe. i wish they had revealed any of the stuff we hadn't known about before the leaks happened.

this was a pretty easy fix imo. you could still do the everyone is here reveal, but then just save the videos for when said character is posted on the blog. that would have made it a lot more fun and actually could have provided anything interesting for the months of no news

The game has the highest pre-order rate and visibility out of any previous title in the series. It has tacit approval from the majority of the competitive scene and a wealth of content around it. Engagement on said content is quite high. By every conceivable metric the marketing would be considered a success from any company looking at their ROI. The game had a primetime commercial gain meme status and pretty much get FREE SYNCH LICENSE ALL OVER THE INTERNET. Do you know how much $$$ it costs to license a God damn queen song? or any of the other songs used in that trailer? It's not ****ing cheap especially in the year where there is a giant "Queen" movie playing across America.

Not trying to be rude. But I work in marketing, and needed to push back against this a little because some of it is untrue. Regardless, I appreciate your enthusiasm on the subject. If you're really interested in it(because it seems you love to try to track the trajectory of people emotional investment, which is a great quality to have in that field) you should read "Jab, Jab, Right Hook". Great piece on it. Hope you're well!

 

[MBRedboy31]

Yeah but with like
Eye laser beams...
and explosions...
and missiles...

HE'S COOL, OK?

So, R.O.B. with a Beam Sword and a Steel Diver?

 

[Bionichute]

Apart from blog, directs, tournaments and multi-media advertisements?

I think the game looks good either way, and people complaining about the marketing online won't prevent anyone from purchasing the game.

yeah a good game can still have abysmal marketing, you don't have to lie to yourself about the marketing being good. the game looks amazing, but they majorly ****ed up on the pre-release build up, which has potentially costed them some sales

 

[New_Dumal]

I think the hype would be absurd if they save the "Everyone is HERE!" for the last direct.
Even with the disaster that the Incineroar Plant combo was, everything would be forgotten if the last surprise was "everyone is here".
They could hide like... Snake, Wolf, P.Trainer, Cloud and some fan favorite stages until the last direct.

 

[KarneraMythos]

While we're on the topic of DLC, I wanted to bring something up that I think should preferably be said.
Many fans believe that a character getting into Smash as anything but a fighter means that they are automatically null from DLC options. This extends to the Assist Trophies and Poke Ball Pokemon in particular, and people are divided over the current situation on Spirits. Many think that to add one of these characters as a fighter, then they would have to remove their previous role, which would ultimately make no sense. However, I had a thought; what if characters already in the game in some form could still be DLC, but their previous roles remained intact as well?
BUT THAT WOULDN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE!

Sense has nothing to do with it; there's no telling what happens with these sorts of games.

Except that there is logic to Sakurai's choices, and nothing so far has broken any trends aside from Snake, who proved to the fandom that characters other than Nintendo's can be in Smash provided they fulfill a few quotas. On the subject of Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon, they've only ever been promoted to playable in the following game. If you want to argue for promotion in a hypothetical Wave 2 of DLC, then it's fair to assume with enough time that Sakurai could "promote" an Assist Trophy or a Pokeball Pokemon, provided we start running out of room for new characters that Sakurai and Nintendo would like to add that isn't already deconfirmed at the moment.

IT'S BREAKING SAKURAI'S RULES!

They're not Sakurai's rules, they're the fandom's rules, and these "rules" have been broken multiple times in the past, most particularly when Sakurai agreed with the fans (Ridley is too big, too many Fire Emblem characters, et cetera).

That's a myopic assumption you've got there. The rules you're making fun of generally exist for a good reason. Without them, character discussion would boil down to this kind of nonsense (except instead of being satire, it's played seriously):

Aside from that, no rule has ever been broken so far. Hell, you can even trace back Sakurai's comment on Snake for as early as the Melee days. He had intentions of including a 3rd-party rep already, but couldn't due to time constraints. You can also attribute his exclusion in Melee with all of the missing All-Star characters, like Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Marth, and even Mr. Game & Watch. The roster wasn't ready to add 3rd-party characters yet because there was still content to draw from the Nintendo games we knew about at the time.

SAKURAI SAID SO ON MIIVERSE!

He did. Nearly five years ago. You know what else he disagreed with? Ridley. A lot can change in a little under half a decade.

False equivalency. If things can "change", we would have had Lyn, Ashley, Isaac, and Waluigi as playable characters by now, if not by Smash 4 already. Sakurai doesn't change his mind as often as you think. In fact, he never changes his mind on anything at all. The closest example to that is Ryu due to an unsubstantiated paraphrase where he felt like Ryu was too redundant to include in Smash. Characters like Mii Fighters, Ridley, Villager, Pac-Man, and so on were eventually added because he figured out ways to implement them into gameplay. It was never about him not wanting them at any point. It's apples to oranges, not artichokes to monster trucks.

NO DEV WOULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS!

That's because it's already been done with other fighting games. Croagunk was initially a support Pokemon in Pokken Tournament, and wound up hopping its way into the roster. Android 17 was previously just an element of Android 18's moveset in Dragon Ball Fighterz, only to show up at a later date flying solo from his sister. Heck, an instance of this already exists within Ultimate, with Robin retaining Chrom within Pair-Up as his Final Smash, despite Chrom himself becoming a playable character. When it's been done before, it can be done again.

Ummm.....Those are different games with different standards for what can or can't be playable. Literally what are you trying to get at here other than once again using false equivalency?

THOSE FANS DON'T DESERVE THEIR CHARACTERS/THEY'RE JUST BANDWAGONING!

Okay, this argument is just being petty, and just as much of bandwagoning as they claim those other fans to be going through. Yes, there may be some characters with less than favorable vocal minorities (Waluigi, Ashley, and Shadow come to mind), but that doesn't mean you should disregard the passion and love from the bright side of the fanbase, ironic or not.

I don't disagree! There are certainly people out there with an irrational hatred toward the fanbases you exemplified. That being said, it's logical to assume that the characters can only be promoted (in the same game they're reintroduced as Assist Trophies mind you) if there are DLC plans beyond the first Fighter's Pass, where different characters not currently in the game will get the spotlight for now.

VERGE &/OR OTHER LEAKERS SAID THEY WEREN'T HAPPENING!

I'm not ashamed to admit it, I was a little bit blindsided by Verge's accuracy. Even then, though, I'd still advise you to never believe in leaks until they're either true or false, no matter how credible the source may be *cough*grinch*cough*

I'll play devil's advocate and say that Verge, Hitagi, etc. have some degree of knowledge to the DLC, but have gone from having concrete evidence to using metaphorical binoculars and walkie-talkies to get their info, which can change sporadically. They're just as much in the dark as we are, at least this time around. For all we know, the Square Enix rep doesn't exist and all the red herring talk behind Geno and Sora could end in a M.Night Shyamalan Twist where the Square Enix rumor itself was a red herring.

I HATE YOU FOR SUGGESTING THIS!

I know

You'd probably get the responses you're hoping for on a site like gamefaqs, lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Something bothers me about the DLC.
We're getting five stages to go with the Fighter's Pass characters, yes?

....so what's with the blank slot remaining once all five are added?
Is there like a 6th stage going to be added for free at some point like Duck Hunt (3DS) and Miiverse (Wii U)?
They're not just going to leave that blank, right....?

 

[osby]

Yeah but with like
Eye laser beams...
and explosions...
and missiles...

HE'S COOL, OK?

I've played Nocturne. I must admit, I'm pretty lukewarm towards Demi-fiend as a character for completely personal reasons, but it's hard to say he wouldn't be an interesting fighter.

Though, I'd be disappointed be if Pixie doesn't show up with him somewhere.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler: It does now.

I just woke up. I saw this.
Amazing, thank you.

 

[Idon]

Honestly, I'd hove honestly preferred if they just space out the announcements a bit better rather than have 3 total "big" events for your game.

Like the options menu?
Classic Mode?
Bosses?
some items and assist trophies here and there?

Pair that minor stuff up with the Isabelle announcement and there'd be far less of a period of info drought.

 

[New_Dumal]

[I messed up and posted only the quotes, please delete this]

 

[DraginHikari]

yeah a good game can still have abysmal marketing, you don't have to lie to yourself about the marketing being good. the game looks amazing, but they majorly ****ed up on the pre-release build up, which has potentially costed them some sales

It's not really about lying, it was sufficient enough for me. I was going to buy the game regardless of the marketing and frankly I think Video Games marketing being so heavily dependent on Hype culture is a bad thing to begin with and leads to so much lying and falsity within the industry itself. The marketing reached probably who it needed to and frankly it's not us that marketing is generally needing to get the attention of.

 

[osby]

yeah a good game can still have abysmal marketing, you don't have to lie to yourself about the marketing being good. the game looks amazing, but they majorly ****ed up on the pre-release build up, which has potentially costed them some sales

I'm not lying myself because I don't share the same opinions with you. Also, considering how high the pre-order numbers are, you need to show proof of those "marketing **** ups" and "potentially lost sales".

And, no, as I said, speculation forums bemoaning about info droughts and no big last reveals isn't a proof.

 

[Idon]

Something bothers me about the DLC.
We're getting five stages to go with the Fighter's Pass characters, yes?

....so what's with the blank slot remaining once all five are added?
Is there like a 6th stage going to be added for free at some point like Duck Hunt (3DS) and Miiverse (Wii U)?
They're not just going to leave that blank, right....?

Probably not.
At the same time though, weird UI decisions is kinda par for the course for Smash.

 

[RedrappeR]

yeah a good game can still have abysmal marketing, you don't have to lie to yourself about the marketing being good. the game looks amazing, but they majorly ****ed up on the pre-release build up, which has potentially costed them some sales

Just gonna jump out on a limb here and redirect you again...

I literally work in marketing. You are super incorrect. Reasons are in my previous post, which you were also tagged in.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Something bothers me about the DLC.
We're getting five stages to go with the Fighter's Pass characters, yes?

....so what's with the blank slot remaining once all five are added?
Is there like a 6th stage going to be added for free at some point like Duck Hunt (3DS) and Miiverse (Wii U)?
They're not just going to leave that blank, right....?

I think it's either going to be relegated to Random, an extra button for future DLC, or Stage creator assuming the Day 1 Patch for missing modes is true.

Speaking of stages, 30 character slots were found in the datamine, but nothing on stages. Hmmm...

EDIT:

Spoiler: Bad-News Bears

Spoke with a friend who has access to the files. They said there were no empty stage slots. Unless this so-called Day 1 Patch adds that information, or we get it as early as Piranha Plant, I feel like the lack of empty stage slots hurts the chances of DLC beyond the Fighter's Pass.