Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PsychoJosh]

It's almost like he doesn't know the Kingdom Hearts fan base at all.

I never said I did, but also know that I don't want to.

nice stereotyping there m8.

Thank you. It was the point after all. Not to talk about who plays it but who it's made for.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

See that's why I don't think Sora would happen. It's not even just the Donald and Goofy of it all.

If you keep the Mickey symbol on his Keyblade. That's copyrighted too. He's a fortune of a third party character.

Possibly the most expensive one out there.

I never said I did, but also know that I don't want to.

Okay, then you should probably not say anything about a group of people you've just admitted to knowing nothing about?

 

[Superyoshiom]

I think I'm starting to warm up to the idea of having Pig Ganon in Smash. Technically he's not the same character as Ganondorf, and looks radically different too. Rework Ganondorf to have a magic and projectile based moveset, and give this character an extremely heavy, trident based moveset. Since Sakurai seems keen on not adding Zelda characters outside of the main three, he might as well add this guy.

I think it presents a nice parallel:
Link - Toon Link
Zelda - Shiek
Ganondorf - Ganon

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

World of Final Fantasy is entirely different from Smash Brothers though and you know it.

Sakurai attempts to add every bit of what makes a franchise special into Smash.

Part of (but not all of obviously) what makes Kingdom Hearts special is Disney.

What made the Wario franchise so special was that it consisted of two popular series, yet only one is represented.

I'm not trying to make a point right now, I just wanted to rant about the lack of Wario Land content.

 

[PLATINUM7]

We did get the Mickey Mouse and the Mickey and Donald Game & Watch games listed in Brawl's chronicle.

I don't think it means anything character inclusion wise but copyright wise maybe. From what I can tell, they were published by Nintendo, so did that give them the clear to list them?

Another thing, the hidden Mickey on the Kingdom Key is part of Sora's design pretty much. I'd assume if you negotiate getting Sora and get that ©Disney on the trailer/title screen you can use the hidden Mickey.

 

[Deleted member]

....is there something I'm missing when people refer to it as the "hidden" Mickey?

 

[N3ON]

das a crossover innit

so obv Sora is guaranteed

 

[PLATINUM7]

....is there something I'm missing when people refer to it as the "hidden" Mickey?

It's the term for when the Mickey symbol is subtly (or not so) inserted into places.

 

[vaanrose]

....is there something I'm missing when people refer to it as the "hidden" Mickey?

Someone needs to win the Super Bowl so they can go to Disney Land.

 

[Hinata]

I opened up a whole can of worms that didn't really need to be opened. Whoops.

....is there something I'm missing when people refer to it as the "hidden" Mickey?

It's a super secret Mickey. Nobody's allowed to know about it. It's right there in plain sight, so nobody would ever think to look for it.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Ok, rip Into it. How would you feel if they had to keep the roster under 60 characters and this is what we got?

I worked on everything for this. Popularity, history, representation, male female, evil/good, uniquiness, yadda yadda yadda

Preliminary examination...

No Ganondorf?
Squirtle and Ivysuar over Lucario and Greninja?
Ridley at the cost of ZSS?
Removal of the clones such as Doc, Lucina, and Pittoo and yet you ADDED PICHU?!
No additional Xenoblade character, yet Octoling?
...KEEBY? Dare I even ask?
Falco is replaced by Andross?
...Saki? Like, really?
Masked Man over Ness? Not in this century, sir.
Corrin and Robin tossed for Lyn and Anna? I mean, Lyn is cool, but Anna?
Dillon? Nice.
Please tell me you did not sacrifice Wii Fit for Chibi-Robo or the Chorus Men...

The rest is okay. If we got this as a roster, I'd be a tad miffed at the large number of extremely unnecessary cuts.
Also, the clones (Doc, Lucy, and DP as mentioned earlier) take up hardly any relevant dev time, so cutting them serves no purpose other than having 3 less characters.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

das a crossover innit

so obv Sora is guaranteed

Bill Trinen talked about it in a Nintendo Direct, so there is no doubt.

 

[N3ON]

Bill Trinen talked about it in a Nintendo Direct, so there is no doubt.

I rest my case.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Ok, rip Into it. How would you feel if they had to keep the roster under 60 characters and this is what we got?

I worked on everything for this. Popularity, history, representation, male female, evil/good, uniquiness, yadda yadda yadda

I now see why Sakurai doesn't care about representation

 

[Icedragonadam]

Alright a question that hasn't been asked yet. If Corrin returns, will the female version be the default version this time? She seems to be the far more popular gender option compared to her male counterpart and is the default for the other crossover games Corrin is in.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay, fine.

I think Sora and by extension Kingdom Hearts were created solely for the type of overweight junior high school anime club fangirls who watched Disney Channel and played FF8 when they were 5, that said to themselves "I think Goofy and Squall should kiss". And sadly as it turned out, there were a lot of them out there and the series created a lot more of them.

That's how I really feel.

I think you think you're making a valid point but your point is so exaggerated it just makes you look foolish.

Kingdom Hearts is ridiculous but its nothing like what you've described.

I'd suggest playing one to find out but...

You already seem bitter on the idea.

That attitude is gonna hurt you in the speculation trip, trust me.

 

[Starcutter]

So, I just finished The World Ends With You, and that game's great.

Also, we seem to be talking about square reps, how convenient. I'd love Neku in smash.

I mean he was also in that kingdom hearts game

 

[Jak_spoon]

Preliminary examination...

No Ganondorf?
Squirtle and Ivysuar over Lucario and Greninja?
Ridley at the cost of ZSS?
Removal of the clones such as Doc, Lucina, and Pittoo and yet you ADDED PICHU?!
No additional Xenoblade character, yet Octoling?
...KEEBY? Dare I even ask?
Falco is replaced by Andross?
...Saki? Like, really?
Masked Man over Ness? Not in this century, sir.
Corrin and Robin tossed for Lyn and Anna? I mean, Lyn is cool, but Anna?
Dillon? Nice.
Please tell me you did not sacrifice Wii Fit for Chibi-Robo or the Chorus Men...

The rest is okay. If we got this as a roster, I'd be a tad miffed at the large number of extremely unnecessary cuts.
Also, the clones (Doc, Lucy, and DP as mentioned earlier) take up hardly any relevant dev time, so cutting them serves no purpose other than having 3 less characters.

Yea so I wanted to see how people would feel if we got what the "common" smash fan wants. If we had to rebbot the series because the roster got to the point that it was too large. So like I said I focused I focused on the good/evil, male female, yada yada. I forgot to mention that you have to imagine that were playing a game with no clones/semi-clones, as everyone "truly" desires. No characters can get in twice (Ie sheik and ZSS) and I wanted to place in characters that have no shot while also limiting the bigger first party characters. Another thing that was really hard was I was trying to limit "Anime sword characters".

So that being said, (I really should have put in an explanation in the first post)

Gannondorf is supposed to be a combined re-imaged Gannondorf/Gannon that uses the trident
Squirtle and Ivysuar over Lucario and Greninja? Yes, because I was trying to make the world of Pokemon consistent so they wouldn't need a token next gen pokemon, and so the roster wont feel dated but classic.
Had to cut ZSS.
Pichu was added as a joke character, I was thinking of replacing her with evee but I stayed with it.
No additional Xenoblade because I didnt want to turn it into an FE situation plus I needed to limit sword guys
...KEEBY? Yea its supposed to be kirby but I could find kirby in that pose to make his position in the center pop
Falco is replaced by Andross? yup. I couldnt have clones but I wanted two Starfox reps.
...Saki? I needed a skriker character to replace Falco and ZSS
Masked Man over Ness? Not in this century, sir. yea agreed
Corrin and Robin tossed for Lyn and Anna? I mean, Lyn is cool, but Anna? Yes I did that, I have no counter.
Dillon? Nice.
Please tell me you did not sacrifice Wii Fit for Chibi-Robo or the Chorus Men... Cut Wii Fit for "the popular opinion"

So heres my next question, Is this the roster that the fans really want?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Swap out Ashley or Paper Mario for Waluigi, Nook for Isabelle and I find Ness being cut questionable to include Masked Man and I'd say you have what most casuals want( in the west at least.)

Actually no as far as I've seen you need half a roster of 3rd parties including Steve and Goku.

 

[Antimatter042]

Yea so I wanted to see how people would feel if we got what the "common" smash fan wants. If we had to rebbot the series because the roster got to the point that it was too large. So like I said I focused I focused on the good/evil, male female, yada yada. I forgot to mention that you have to imagine that were playing a game with no clones/semi-clones, as everyone "truly" desires. No characters can get in twice (Ie sheik and ZSS) and I wanted to place in characters that have no shot while also limiting the bigger first party characters. Another thing that was really hard was I was trying to limit "Anime sword characters".

So that being said, (I really should have put in an explanation in the first post)

Gannondorf is supposed to be a combined re-imaged Gannondorf/Gannon that uses the trident
Squirtle and Ivysuar over Lucario and Greninja? Yes, because I was trying to make the world of Pokemon consistent so they wouldn't need a token next gen pokemon, and so the roster wont feel dated but classic.
Had to cut ZSS.
Pichu was added as a joke character, I was thinking of replacing her with evee but I stayed with it.
No additional Xenoblade because I didnt want to turn it into an FE situation plus I needed to limit sword guys
...KEEBY? Yea its supposed to be kirby but I could find kirby in that pose to make his position in the center pop
Falco is replaced by Andross? yup. I couldnt have clones but I wanted two Starfox reps.
...Saki? I needed a skriker character to replace Falco and ZSS
Masked Man over Ness? Not in this century, sir. yea agreed
Corrin and Robin tossed for Lyn and Anna? I mean, Lyn is cool, but Anna? Yes I did that, I have no counter.
Dillon? Nice.
Please tell me you did not sacrifice Wii Fit for Chibi-Robo or the Chorus Men... Cut Wii Fit for "the popular opinion"

So heres my next question, Is this the roster that the fans really want?

I respect the vision you had in mind when making this roster, but honestly I can't see any "common" Smash fan wanting this at all, I certainly wouldn't buy the game with this roster. I think in your attempts to include only timeless and unique characters you've stripped away a lot of the most beloved characters in Smash right now and the newcomers are extremely meh. A 60 character roster is certainly possible with the next game, but hopefully nothing like this.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow. So someone actually wants Mickey Mouse.
What would he do? There are so many possibilities.

 

[Cosmic77]

Alright a question that hasn't been asked yet. If Corrin returns, will the female version be the default version this time? She seems to be the far more popular gender option compared to her male counterpart and is the default for the other crossover games Corrin is in.

Even though FE and Smash fans alike avoid male Corrin like the plague (and KT certainly took note of that in Warriors), I don't see a reason for Smash Switch to randomly swap him out for the female version. Male Corrin has already established himself as the default version, and as much we don't like him, changing that just seems completely random and unnecessary.

I'm not saying it won't happen, because fans have definitely made themselves clear with their preferred Corrin gender. It's just not a change that I care enough to see come to fruition.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Even though FE and Smash fans alike avoid male Corrin like the plague (and KT certainly took note of that in Warriors), I don't see a reason for Smash Switch to randomly swap him out for the female version. Male Corrin has already established himself as the default version, and as much we don't like him, changing that just seems completely random and unnecessary.

I'm not saying it won't happen, because fans have definitely made themselves clear with their preferred Corrin gender. It's just not a change that I care enough to see come to fruition.

Okay as someone who doesn't know anything about Fates, I keep seeing this but no explanation why.
What did Male Corrin do to garner such hatred compared to female Corrin?

 

[Jak_spoon]

I respect the vision you had in mind when making this roster, but honestly I can't see any "common" Smash fan wanting this at all, I certainly wouldn't buy the game with this roster. I think in your attempts to include only timeless and unique characters you've stripped away a lot of the most beloved characters in Smash right now and the newcomers are extremely meh. A 60 character roster is certainly possible with the next game, but hopefully nothing like this.

Could you give me who you would say are the top 5 most beloved characters that were stripped away? I honestly wonder how many people actually noticed or cared that Jigs and ROB are gone. I mean i know at one point they will have to reboot. I just dont know how they will do it and still sell copies.

I would get the game. But id get any game with Isaac in it so my opinion doesnt mean much.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, fine.

I think Sora and by extension Kingdom Hearts were created solely for the type of overweight junior high school anime club fangirls who watched Disney Channel and played FF8 when they were 5, that said to themselves "I think Goofy and Squall should kiss". And sadly as it turned out, there were a lot of them out there and the series created a lot more of them.

That's how I really feel.

Okay.... stop. You know this is not how you truly feel.
....
Disney just made it for the people, and a lot of people like Disney.
There is no way Disney would make their game for that audience. Disney has to appeal to the bigger audience who likes cash.
I mean it is like FF, but it still his Disney themes for casual audiences to enjoy.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Okay as someone who doesn't know anything about Fates, I keep seeing this but no explanation why.
What did Male Corrin do to garner such hatred compared to female Corrin?

I don't think it's that Male Corrin did anything, it's just that more people like the design of Female Corrin better.

 

[Cosmic77]

Okay as someone who doesn't know anything about Fates, I keep seeing this but no explanation why.
What did Male Corrin do to garner such hatred compared to female Corrin?

Nothing really. Most of the reasons why people dislike Corrin are fairly simple.

"His haircut looks stupid."
"The outfit looks better on a girl."
"His voice sounds weird."
"Female Corrin has the better victory quotes." (Pretty sure they're both equally terrible, but whatever.)

 

[Deleted member]

Okay as someone who doesn't know anything about Fates, I keep seeing this but no explanation why.
What did Male Corrin do to garner such hatred compared to female Corrin?

I am one of those guys who likes female Corrin better than male Corrin, but.....
Just going to list a big reason for you.

I am hoping that female Corrin becomes the default, actually. They can still keep male Corrin.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

View attachment 141322
I think I'm starting to warm up to the idea of having Pig Ganon in Smash. Technically he's not the same character as Ganondorf, and looks radically different too. Rework Ganondorf to have a magic and projectile based moveset, and give this character an extremely heavy, trident based moveset. Since Sakurai seems keen on not adding Zelda characters outside of the main three, he might as well add this guy.

I think it presents a nice parallel:
Link - Toon Link
Zelda - Shiek
Ganondorf - Ganon

Welcome to our club! Welcome to our club! Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward!

Also, just a minor correction, he is the same guy as Ganondorf. I mean, he apparently isn’t in Four Sword Adventure, but I think that’s just part of them applying a timeline to a series that clearly wasn’t supposed to have one outside of directly named sequels and prequels.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Welcome to our club! Welcome to our club! Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward Welcome Squidward!

Also, just a minor correction, he is the same guy as Ganondorf. I mean, he apparently isn’t in Four Sword Adventure, but I think that’s just part of them applying a timeline to a series that clearly wasn’t supposed to have one outside of directly named sequels and prequels.

The Ganon in Four Swords is another reincarnation of Ganon, much like how Link and Zelda keep getting reincarnated.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Just realized that Disney related things will be unavoidable with Sora...

His keyblade has the freaking Mickey Mouse head on the keychain.

Spoiler

Edit: And yes, before you ask, the outline of Mickey Mouse's head is indeed a copyrighted image.

Solution: Replace Mickey's head with a Smash symbol.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Okay as someone who doesn't know anything about Fates, I keep seeing this but no explanation why.
What did Male Corrin do to garner such hatred compared to female Corrin?

From my view anyway, Female Corrin looks more "natural". The outfit Corrin wears in particular is clearly trying to put emphasis on his/her slender legs and bare feet, which on the male version looks more weird. It's pretty clear they wanted to emphasize the legs since the female version actually has her thighs exposed, unlike the male version.

(Is there even a justified reason why Corrin doesn't wear shoes???)

 

[PLATINUM7]

Solution: Replace Mickey's head with a Smash symbol.

What I imagined after reading your post.

Which then got me imagining a reveal trailer for Mickey. Imagine seeing the Smash symbol show up and then two more circles protrude from the top forming something like this.

I imagine it would be sort of like how Pac-Man's trailer had the screen go yellow, zoom out to show a circle which then quickly opened up revealing Pac-Man's iconic wedge shape.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm imagining Mickey being a swap type character based on the many various games he's appeared in.

Like he becomes a painter for Epic Mickey, pulls out a Keyblade for Kingdom Hearts, etc, etc.

**** considering the variety of games Mickey has appeared in. I gotta admit even if he's kinda of impossible. I kinda want him.

 

[DraginHikari]

Sora's biggest issue as a third party comes down to the dual-nature of his ownership. I don't how the rights for Kingdom Hearts are handled between SE and Disney per say but it would be plausible that not only would SE need to sign off but so would Disney. Frankly if there is any company more weird about working with 3rd parties then SE then it would properly be Disney.

Mickey on the other hand is a Goku-esque situation where they would have to break the rule of 'video originating characters only' so it depends if Sakurai would stick to that stance or not.

 

[yoshimain]

they have to buff the puff!

 

[TheAnvil]

Mickey should totally be in Smash.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Nooooooooooo I missed the Sora debate, I'm so mad. Damn this headache I had last night.

He's definitely one of my most wanted characters, but I'm just gonna agree with what a lot of people are saying in that the dual ownership between SE and Disney is probably a nightmare. As for Donald and Goofy, I never considered them to be part of the moveset in Smash as that would be even more licensing issues, but as some people said, friendship is a huge part of the game and Donald and Goofy's role as support should be at leaat considered. But without support, I don't know exactly what would set Sora apart (like Ryu and Bayonetta's combos, Cloud's limit, etc.). I suppose if Sakurai goes through the hurdles to get him, he has something in mind.

I wll say the only reason I'd expext Sora is if he is a DLC character after some announcement of KH on Switch. I don't see him getting into Smash any other way honestly.

 

[Antimatter042]

Are we really discussing the idea of Mickey Mouse in Smash Bros?

I like a lot of Disney properties, but I utterly despise Mickey Mouse. One of the main reasons I'm not huge on the idea of adding Sora is that I don't think Disney in general should be associated with Smash. Mickey has nothing meaningful to do with games, is a dreadful mascot and would honestly make me not want the game to a degree.

 

[TheAnvil]

Mickey has nothing meaningful to do with games, is a dreadful mascot.

Objectively false.