Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

Wrong. It's undesirable because it's against the interests of the game.

How is adding an iconic video game character against the interest of the game?

Because buddy if you're about to say it opens the flood gates to stuff like Goku.

You're wrong.

I also think people are smart enough to realize if Sora did get in. No one else from Kingdom Hearts is ever getting in as a rep after that. No one would be clamoring ''King Mickey for Smash 6!" or anything, because people aren't THAT far gone.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

How is adding an iconic video game character against the interest of the game?

I literally explained why. Why are you asking me to explain something when I already have?

Because buddy if you're about to say it opens the flood gates to stuff like Goku.

You're wrong.

I never said anything remotely like that, "buddy". First you ask me to explain something I already said and then proceed to refute something I never said.

Like are you talking to me?

I also think people are smart enough to realize if Sora did get in. No one else from Kingdom Hearts is ever getting in as a rep after that. No one would be clamoring ''King Mickey for Smash 6!" or anything, because people aren't THAT far gone.

The problem is you're asking for a game to be represented in Super Smash Bros, but you wanna tip toe around the source material of the actual game. Goofy & Donald can't appear as a Final Smash or part of a move set, nothing Disney related can be incorporated as a stage, or trophies. Why would you even want Sora when he can't even reference or acknowledge his own game?

Why does this require explanation? I'll say it again. How is it not obvious why that's a bad idea?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

People legit are operating under the believe if Sora was a yes from Disney. They'd allow use of Donald and Goofy at least in a final Smash/Victory screen.

That's the part you seem to be missing.

The true thing they're missing is how much Donald and Goofy will cost Sakurai/Nintendo even just for that little bit. So you're paying for essentially three characters. Two of which will probably cost a pretty penny even for like 10 seconds of on screen usage.

Also buddy. That buddy wasn't condescending. Don't know why you had to put emphasis on it.

 

[Superyoshiom]

People legit are operating under the believe if Sora was a yes from Disney. They'd allow use of Donald and Goofy at least in a final Smash/Victory screen.

That's the part you seem to be missing.

The true thing they're missing is how much Donald and Goofy will cost Sakurai/Nintendo even just for that little bit. So you're paying for essentially three characters. Two of which will probably cost a pretty penny even for like 10 seconds of on screen usage.

Also buddy. That buddy wasn't condescending. Don't know why you had to put emphasis on it.

Not familiar with the Kingdom Hearts series, but are the Disney elements so prominent in the series to the point where taking them out makes Sora not feel like Sora anymore?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sora himself depends upon Disney. The issue is clearly money, yeah. But Sora himself is fine as an option since he's a video game character.

I wouldn't mind having Disney characters as trophies, either. But a lot of the content can also be easily specific stuff that was unique to Kingdom Hearts anyway, that is, not other Disney stuff, but the basic ones. It's unlikely they wouldn't push for Donald and Goofy, but as I noted, no way they'd be more than a Trophy under what we understand from Sakurai(since he more wants game characters playable).

 

[N3ON]

At the risk of speaking on the behalf of an entire group, I'd reckon the majority of Sora supporters are completely fine with the possibility that should he be included, it'd only extend to purely KH content, not other Disney stuff.

Because you've still got a fair bit to work with. Especially when Ryu and Cloud get implemented with near the bare minimum...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Not familiar with the Kingdom Hearts series, but are the Disney elements so prominent in the series to the point where taking them out makes Sora not feel like Sora anymore?

A prominent theme in the series is friendship.

Most of this theme is explored through Sora's friendship with Donald and Goofy.

It'd be pretty weird to not see them at all in some capacity, yeah.

 

[Deleted member]

but as I noted, no way they'd be more than a Trophy under what we understand from Sakurai(since he more wants game characters playable).

But they wouldn't be playable, would they? Sora would be.
They would, just like in the KH series proper, be support.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But they wouldn't be playable, would they? Sora would be.
They would, just like in the KH series proper, be support.

Fair point. I can't see them in straight gameplay either, but who knows. I could be completely wrong. Being as iconic as they are, Sakurai might only shrug if they're an Assist Trophy/part of Sora's Final Smash. Hard to say, really.

 

[Double0Groove]

Is it not obvious yet why Kingdom Hearts is an AWFUL idea for a Super Smash Bros newcomer? I assure you there is no interest by Nintendo to have Disney characters and worlds in Super Smash Bros. I don't need a citation for that.

Woah, what the heck? You certainly DO need a citation for that. Otherwise, you have no reason to believe that they wouldn't have any form of interest in his inclusion. Not to mention, Kingdom Hearts is far from an awful idea for Smash bros. From the move-set potential to the stages that could be included, Adding a character like Sora is a really good fit.

A prominent theme in the series is friendship.

Most of this theme is explored through Sora's friendship with Donald and Goofy.

It'd be pretty weird to not see them at all in some capacity, yeah.

With that being said, Sora has starred in a game without them appearing much at all. If nothing else, Riku and Kairi fits that friendship theme just fine. At the very least they'd be the perfect substitute if adding Donald and Goofy wasn't possible (Assuming their addition was ever important in the first place).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please avoid double posting and edit your messages instead.

 

[Deleted member]

Sora would be cool, but you would need to ask Disney, and Disney is not as accepting as other companies.

Kingdom Hearts is cool as well.

And so it begins.

In other news, Smash 5 needs a new burrito.
So Waluigi for Smash.

As long as it has "Waluigi for Smash", it has good logic.
I am proud of you.

Swiper is a heartless confirmed.

Swiper swiped my future self's crush.

 

[Double0Groove]

Please avoid double posting and edit your messages instead.

Sorry. I'll be more careful next time. You even fixed it for me too. Thanks for that!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No one would be clamoring ''King Mickey for Smash 6!" or anything, because people aren't THAT far gone.

You say that but...

I'D ****ING LOVE MICKEY MOUSE!!!!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm just worried that Sora's appearance in Smash Switch will be vital to understanding the story of the next Kingdom Hearts game.

They always find a way...

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

There is enough nonDisney related content in Kingdom Hearts you could put in Smash that would satisfy fans.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Sora would be cool, but you would need to ask Disney, and Disney is not as accepting as other companies.

Kingdom Hearts is cool as well.

As long as it has "Waluigi for Smash", it has good logic.
I am proud of you.

Swiper swiped my future self's crush.

You'd think if Nintendo let Disney use Boswer in Wreck-it Ralph, Disney would let Nintendo use Sora in Smash.

It would be really lame if things could only go one way.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You'd think if Nintendo let Disney use Boswer in Wreck-it Ralph, Disney would let Nintendo use Sora in Smash.

It would be really lame if things could only go one way.

Disney wanted to use Mario and Luigi in the movie but apparently royalties were too expensive.

They aren't that close.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Nintendo and Disney are both protective stingy companies with their IPs, but both have loaned out their babies from time to time.

Nothing is impossible. It'd just cost a lot of money seeing as both of them have some of the most instantly recognizable characters in the whole media industry.

 

[Hinata]

I'm just worried that Sora's appearance in Smash Switch will be vital to understanding the story of the next Kingdom Hearts game.

They always find a way...

Sakurai makes a second Subspace Emissary, and Sora's role in it is considered 100% canon to Kingdom Hearts lore.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm sure you could do Sora WITHOUT Donald and Goofy. It's just Donald and Goofy are so vital to him and his gameplay in all the games that'd it'd feel weird to not reference them.

After all the reason Kingdom Hearts blew up was because it was this huge crossover between Square's World and Disney's World.

Everyone was curious. And to be honest most were morbidly so because back when it was announced everyone was sort of all ''Ha, yeah no way that's gonna be good."

And now look where we are.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I'm sure you could do Sora WITHOUT Donald and Goofy. It's just Donald and Goofy are so vital to him and his gameplay in all the games that'd it'd feel weird to not reference them.

After all the reason Kingdom Hearts blew up was because it was this huge crossover between Square's World and Disney's World.

Everyone was curious. And to be honest most were morbidly so because back when it was announced everyone was sort of all ''Ha, yeah no way that's gonna be good."

And now look where we are.

I mean they already had Sora without Donald and Goofy in Dream Drop Distance.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean they already had Sora without Donald and Goofy in Dream Drop Distance.

Fair, but Disney is a part of Kingdom Hearts like it or not.

You can't just say ''Here's the lead of Square Enix's crossover with Disney and there's not Disney content."

It's the biggest crossover in gaming outside of Smash Brothers. Let's be real.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Disney wanted to use Mario and Luigi in the movie but apparently royalties were too expensive.

They aren't that close.

Actually that was a joke. The reason why Burrito bros weren't in WiR was because Disney didn't want them to overshadow the cast. Mario is set to appear in WiR 2.

EDIT: Said Smash instead of WiR LOL

 

[PLATINUM7]

Disney wanted to use Mario and Luigi in the movie but apparently royalties were too expensive.

They aren't that close.

It's been said numerous times that's not true. Rich Moore (the director) himself debunked that rumour.

Nintendo did let Disney use Mario but they couldn't find a good way to write him in.

Moore's also gone on to say he plans to include Mario in the sequel.

 

[vaanrose]

Disney wanted to use Mario and Luigi in the movie but apparently royalties were too expensive.

They aren't that close.

There's gotta be more to it than that considering Nintendo sold the Mario movie rights to the cheapest animation house in the industry. Usually when these deals fall apart, it's not because of money (well, it is, but not literally), it's because one company wants more than another company is willing to give. For example, there are no video game Lego (aside from Minecraft) because Lego won't sign an IP unless they also get rights to make Lego video games featuring that IP. It's not that Mega Blocks was willing to pay more for Halo than Lego was, it's that Mega Blocks isn't asking for more than Microsoft is willing to sell.

Consider that for Wreck-it Ralph, Disney put out movie posters featuring Sonic, Eggman, Bison, Zangief, Qbert, Clyde, and even the dang rhino from Altered Beast. But no Bowser poster.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Sakurai makes a second Subspace Emissary, and Sora's role in it is considered 100% canon to Kingdom Hearts lore.

"What world is that?" Sora asked from the Gummi Ship cockpit.

"Uh-HYUCK! Why, that's Nintendo World, Sora!" Goofy replied.

"GOOFY!" Donald yelled, "We both know that world is forbidden!"

"Forbidden? Why is that?" Sora inquired towards the angry fowl.

"That world is like a collection of a bunch of different worlds." Donald explained.

"I guess you could say it's sorta like a universe, uh-hyuck!" Goofy clarified.

Donald continued angrily, "And if that universe were to be exposed to all the other worlds, WHO KNOWS WHAT COULD HAPPEN!"

"Hey, is that--?!" Goofy asked as he pointed to a ship headed towards the Nintendo world.

"Is that a heartless ship?" Sora asked.

"OH NO! It's headed right for it! We've got to stop it!" Donald screamed as he gibbered and flailed.

"All right! Let's stop that ship!" Sora declared.

This crap practically writes itself.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Fair, but Disney is a part of Kingdom Hearts like it or not.

You can't just say ''Here's the lead of Square Enix's crossover with Disney and there's not Disney content."

It's the biggest crossover in gaming outside of Smash Brothers. Let's be real.

I mean they kind of did that with World of Final Fantasy.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Sora is not happening. He's much too closely tied to Disney. Hell, his design even takes direct cues from Mickey Mouse.

I mean if I were to list the enormous number of reasons he won't be in Smash we'd be here until the sun went supernova. And good riddance because I hate him.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean they kind of did that with World of Final Fantasy.

World of Final Fantasy is entirely different from Smash Brothers though and you know it.

Sakurai attempts to add every bit of what makes a franchise special into Smash.

Part of (but not all of obviously) what makes Kingdom Hearts special is Disney.

 

[Hinata]

Sora is not happening. He's much too closely tied to Disney. Hell, his design even takes direct cues from Mickey Mouse.

I mean if I were to list the enormous number of reasons he won't be in Smash we'd be here until the sun went supernova. And good riddance because I hate him.

Gee, why don't you tell us how you really feel?

 

[PLATINUM7]

I mean they kind of did that with World of Final Fantasy.

And Final Fantasy Record Keeper.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Again Final Fantasy spin-offs do not equal to what Sakurai would do.

Part of Sora that is important is friendship. Donald and Goofy represent this. I suppose Kairi and Riku do as well, but Donald and Goofy take the major load of this representation from being by his side through most of his journeys.

Sakurai has added a little extra something that is special directly to a lot of the third party reps.

Look at how many old school things are included in Pac Man's moveset.

Look at how Ryu has his Street Fighter inputs for stronger versions of his attacks.

The Limit Break system for Cloud.

Bayonetta is an easy combo fiend much like her games.

Sora's biggest and most special extra thing is the Disney connection. I just can't see Sakurai ignoring that if he wanted him.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Gee, why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Okay, fine.

I think Sora and by extension Kingdom Hearts were created solely for the type of overweight junior high school anime club fangirls who watched Disney Channel and played FF8 when they were 5, that said to themselves "I think Goofy and Squall should kiss". And sadly as it turned out, there were a lot of them out there and the series created a lot more of them.

That's how I really feel.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Ok, rip Into it. How would you feel if they had to keep the roster under 60 characters and this is what we got?

I worked on everything for this. Popularity, history, representation, male female, evil/good, uniquiness, yadda yadda yadda

 

[NintendoKnight]

Just realized that Disney related things will be unavoidable with Sora...

His keyblade has the freaking Mickey Mouse head on the keychain.

Spoiler

Edit: And yes, before you ask, the outline of Mickey Mouse's head is indeed a copyrighted image.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Okay, fine.

I think Sora and by extension Kingdom Hearts were created solely for the type of overweight junior high school anime club fangirls who watched Disney Channel and played FF8 when they were 5, that said to themselves "I think Goofy and Squall should kiss". And sadly it turns out there's a lot of them out there.

That's how I really feel.

It's almost like he doesn't know the Kingdom Hearts fan base at all.

Half of it is literally just ''Final Fantasy fans."

The other half is Disney fans.

Then you have the of course combo fan who liked both a lot and was morbidly curious.

I think what you've done is you've cherry picked out a small portion of a fanbase and decided ''That's it. That's what it's about."

And when I mean cherry picked, I mean cherry picked, because I honestly see VERY little of this in the Kingdom Hearts fanbase.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Okay, fine.

I think Sora and by extension Kingdom Hearts were created solely for the type of overweight junior high school anime club fangirls who watched Disney Channel and played FF8 when they were 5, that said to themselves "I think Goofy and Squall should kiss". And sadly as it turned out, there were a lot of them out there and the series created a lot more of them.

That's how I really feel.

I just think the gameplay is fun, and I like exploring the games worlds.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Just realized that Disney related things will be unavoidable with Sora...

His keyblade has the freaking Mickey Mouse head on the keychain.

Spoiler

It's called a HIDDEN Mickey.

So no one should notice.

What's that I hear? But you did notice?

Shhh.

 

[Polan]

Okay, fine.

I think Sora and by extension Kingdom Hearts were created solely for the type of overweight junior high school anime club fangirls who watched Disney Channel and played FF8 when they were 5, that said to themselves "I think Goofy and Squall should kiss". And sadly as it turned out, there were a lot of them out there and the series created a lot more of them.

That's how I really feel.

nice stereotyping there m8.