Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

The fact that Sora is from a universe of Disney characters doesn't really make him much less laughable than proposing a cartoon character.

@Bradli Wartooth:
I changed my mind. Mimikyu should be the Pokemon newcomer. He's by far the most unique and interesting option. So many good reasons to add him too. The popularity in Japan as well as the anime, the rivalry with Pikachu being an imposter of him and a member of Team Rocket, the fact that he's a ghost Pokemon and he really stands out from the more recent badass humanoid additions like Lucario, Greninja, and Mewtwo

Zeraora is still my main worry though. The timing of his debut is conveniently perfect. But, I sincerely hope Sakurai recognizes the popularity, potential, and unique characteristics of Mimikyu. I've always liked Mimikyu and I think it's the best option.

 

[Deleted member]

Mario is a burrito.

Burrito means "Nintendo character with a mustache".
This is now valid. Argue otherwise, and you will look like a flank steak.

Flank steak now means "foolish person".
This is now valid.

Fight me.

 

[Chiroz]

I know what you must feel with the term "fourth party" because I'm really pissed with 2.5D(2 and half dimension) concept.
If you can't move in the three dimensions, you're into a 2D game.
Yes, there's game 2D with "fake-dept" design and games with games with models 3D but movement 2D...
People should always go for the gameplay perspective, something like "This game is 2D but with 3D models" etc.

I will now say something related to Smash discussion to keep from being warned:
I saw a video in YT where the person defends the "Just Dance" dancer as a character. I found it funny and people would love in the end of the day.

Language is literally made so that we have an easy time communicating and understanding each other. "This game is 2D but with 3D models" <--- This will lead people to ask: Well, then how is it 2d?

The complete sentence should be: "In this game you move like a 2D game but it has 3D models" (or something close to that). Don't you see how much easier it is to just say: "This game is 2.5D".

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think Sora has a shot since Nintendo and Disney was worked together before for Wreck it Ralph. If Disney was so against video game companies, KH wouldn't even exist.

It's amazing how nobody seems to realize that the problem is NINTENDO being against Disney characters in Super Smash Bros. Not Disney being against it.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If we both third party inclusions based on sales alone, especially when comparing them to some of the biggest sries ever the pool is going to get absurdly small real fast.

Of course not but if square is gonna sign off on a character, they're going to wanna use their biggest characters and nintendo are going to want to use the biggest characters which can pull in the biggest audiences. Compared to the other 3rd parties minus bayonetta (cause ballot) Sora just isn't as big tbh.

 

[Blargg888]

4th party isn't a real term, yes that's true. But it has become a term used by Smash speculators to refer to outside characters from non-video game origins/companies.

To put it another way, "4th party" is basically a slang term. So yeah, it's not real, and it wouldn't mean anything outside of Smash speculation, but since it is only used in the context of Smash speculation, it doesn't really matter whether or not it's real.

If you want to refer to characters as 4th party that's fine, and if you don't that's also fine. There's no need to make a big deal out of this.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

RWBY in smash would be a god-tier choice TBH. I need Weiss and Yang to beat up Mario

Well right now they're busy fighting katana boy, truth dude, and the unluckiest man alive, so I think they're too busy for Smash.

I'd love to play as Ruby in Smash though, that's be cool.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

since I updated my speculation lists thread and I can't (and wouldn't) double post there just for a bump, I think it's worth bringing this for you guys ~

Here, I redone my 3rd Party candidate list with their presences on Nintendo systems ~; again, not every guest possibility, but the recorrent requests ~

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"4th Party" just shows a real ignorance to what the term "3rd Party" meant.

I wouldn't give two ****s about that though if "3rd Party" wasn't such an important term that legal papers use it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Of course not but if square is gonna sign off on a character, they're going to wanna use their biggest characters and nintendo are going to want to use the biggest characters which can pull in the biggest audiences. Compared to the other 3rd parties minus bayonetta (cause ballot) Sora just isn't as big tbh.

Even ignoring that Sora is a really big deal you arent going to find a lot of characters that equal the ones we have. They are all genre definers. There arent a lot of those left running around that arent niche. Sora is probably one of the biggest possible inclusions left. KH is ****ing huge. Not Japanese Dragon Quest huge or Lara Croft iconic but it's still damn big. And if Sakurai wants Sora (I would assume he is a more requested choice than Lara at the very least) he's going for Sora. He isn't going to ask for Sora and walk out with someone else completely unrelated

Mario is a burrito.

Burrito means "Nintendo character with a mustache".
This is now valid. Argue otherwise, and you will look like a flank steak.

Flank steak now means "foolish person".
This is now valid.

Fight me.

Only a flank steak would think of something like this

 

[TheLastJinjo]

since I updated my speculation lists thread and I can't (and wouldn't) double post there just for a bump, I think it's worth bringing this for you guys ~

Here, I redone my 3rd Party candidate list with their presences on Nintendo systems ~; again, not every guest possibility, but the recorrent requests ~

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Characters/Games with presence on Nintendo systems? I mean, Simon Belmont? Castlevania?

 

[Deleted member]

Only a flank steak would think of something like this

And so it begins.

In other news, Smash 5 needs a new burrito.
So Waluigi for Smash.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Even ignoring that Sora is a really big deal you arent going to find a lot of characters that equal the ones we have. They are all genre definers. There arent a lot of those left running around that arent niche. Sora is probably one of the biggest possible inclusions left. KH is ****ing huge. Not Japanese Dragon Quest huge or Lara Croft iconic but it's still damn big. And if Sakurai wants Sora (I would assume he is a more requested choice than Lara at the very least) he's going for Sora. He isn't going to ask for Sora and walk out with someone else completely unrelated



Only a flank steak would think of something like this

Kingdom hearts is a big franchise but doesn't even come close to dragon quest when you compare the sales which is y'know kind of a measure of how big a franchise is. It's not just gonna be what sakurai wants, it's gonna be what square wants as well. Honestly the chances of getting another square character is slim as hell anyway let's be real.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

"4th Party" just shows a real ignorance to what the term "3rd Party" meant.

I wouldn't give two ****s about that though if "3rd Party" wasn't such an important term that legal papers use it.

To quote a song from 1993.

''Whoomp! There it is!"

since I updated my speculation lists thread and I can't (and wouldn't) double post there just for a bump, I think it's worth bringing this for you guys ~

Here, I redone my 3rd Party candidate list with their presences on Nintendo systems ~; again, not every guest possibility, but the recorrent requests ~

There was a problem fetching the tweet

People are sleeping on Jibanyan surprisingly sliding himself in. Yokai Watch while dying down now was a massive trend in Japan around the time Sakurai probably picked the roster. The only thing really harming it is it's stance in the rest of the world.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

It's amazing how nobody seems to realize that the problem is NINTENDO being against Disney characters in Super Smash Bros. Not Disney being against it.

Huh? Nintendo has never sid anything about Disney. Nor Sakurai.

I doubt Nintendo is against Disney character (especially one that is more of a FF character), but I do think the final call lies on Nintendo.

And now I am imagining KH Remaster for Switch, followed by his reveal in Smash, lol.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Characters/Games with presence on Nintendo systems? I mean, Simon Belmont? Castlevania?

I couldn't possibly have everyone there; some of the leftover ideas includes Simon, Terry Bogard, a Dragon Quest character and KOS-MOS. But in this lastest update, I decided to put Heihachi, since he was at some point briefly considered for Smash

 

[Hinata]

People are sleeping on Jibanyan surprisingly sliding himself in. Yokai Watch while dying down now was a massive trend in Japan around the time Sakurai probably picked the roster. The only thing really harming it is it's stance in the rest of the world.

Sakurai adds characters that are only really popular in one part of the world all the time. I believe someone like Little Mac fit that bill, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Sakurai adds characters that are only really popular in one part of the world all the time. I believe someone like Little Mac fit that bill, if I'm not mistaken.

Little mac is first party tho. If they were gonna add a level-5 character it'd be layton but I don't see that happening either

 

[CyberWolfBia]

People are sleeping on Jibanyan surprisingly sliding himself in. Yokai Watch while dying down now was a massive trend in Japan around the time Sakurai probably picked the roster. The only thing really harming it is it's stance in the rest of the world.

Between him and Layton, I think Level-5 would prefer to push Yo-Kai Watch in Smash, if they have the chance. The new game on Switch with a darker setting seems interesting... risk for the series, but interesting nonethless.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

since I updated my speculation lists thread and I can't (and wouldn't) double post there just for a bump, I think it's worth bringing this for you guys ~

Here, I redone my 3rd Party candidate list with their presences on Nintendo systems ~; again, not every guest possibility, but the recorrent requests ~

There was a problem fetching the tweet

When did Bayonetta have 6 games?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Kingdom hearts is a big franchise but doesn't even come close to dragon quest when you compare the sales which is y'know kind of a measure of how big a franchise is. It's not just gonna be what sakurai wants, it's gonna be what square wants as well

Square has no say. Sora is Disney and Disney basically has no other options. And even if Disney did own Sora

Sakurai: "Hey I want Sora"
SE: "Use Lara Croft"
Sakurai: "Nah. bye"

SE loses hard in this situation. Advertisements are good business and being hardlining on something like this when Sakurai has a ****ton of other options to go with would be super dumb. That isn't how negotiations work.

And again, sales arent the only thing that matter and if you only focus on that you are missing a huge amount of variables by tunnel-visioning. Just look at some of the series in smash and how well some have sold. Hint: Some are barely worth mentioning. Hell, Sora at least has consistent appearances. DQ has slime who might not even work.

Sora fits all the (fan) criteria for a third party inclusion. Saying that because someone else is bigger means they shouldn't be in is just weird IMO. It'd be like saying we should get Leon from Resident Evil instead of Ryu because RE has been selling better (Im sure a few agree with that but shhh)

 

[CyberWolfBia]

When did Bayonetta have 6 games?

Bayonetta 1, 2, 3, Smash Wii U, Smash 3DS and The Wonderful 101

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And even if Sora did own Dora

Swiper is a heartless confirmed.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Bayonetta 1, 2, 3, Smash Wii U, Smash 3DS and The Wonderful 101

Oh you counted Smash and W101. What about Anarchy Reigns?

Edit: Right, not on Nintendo system. I thought it meant games across all Systems.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Oh you counted Smash and W101. What about Anarchy Reigns?

this is about titles released on Nintendo systems, the closest we have of Anarchy Reigns is the pose in her render in Bayo1 costume in Smash4 ^^'

 

[A Distant Demon]

Swiper is a heartless confirmed.

Wow that was so bad.

Bayonetta 1, 2, 3, Smash Wii U, Smash 3DS and The Wonderful 101

Im guessing this is only games that appeaered on Nintendo consoles? Sort of skews the results since smash is more than just Nintendo appearances (looking at you cloud. . .and arguably Pac Man).

EDIT answered

 

[Danpal65]

I could see Sora getting announced at E3 in conjunction with HD ports of Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 to the Switch with Kingdom Hearts 3 coming to the system next year. That'd be super hype and would provide further justification for Sora being in Smash and provide opportunity for a segue from one announcement to the other.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I really wish people would stop thinking like this.
It honestly comes off as desperation for Balloon Fighter supporters considering they've brought this up since Smash 4 DLC. Like not long after Iwata died, even.

We're not getting Balloon Fighter as a "tribute" to Iwata.
If we are going to get ANY character to serve as tribute, it will be Ossan.

I was thinking Ossan could represent the sports series on the NES by using sports equipment from all of the sports games, but since the character has only played golf that might not be a good way to go about it.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Im guessing this is only games that appeaered on Nintendo consoles? Sort of skews the results since smash is more than just Nintendo appearances (looking at you cloud. . .and arguably Pac Man).

EDIT answered

Oh, this is absolutely not for having a basis of what games Sakurai and his team can pull from or anything; Like.. Heihachi's presence on Nintendo is minimum, he even needs a Pac-Man party game to count one more! xP

this is more about how familiar Nintendo players supposedly are with these characters and franchises and how much weight each one have for Nintendo and their systems (which, as seen with the 3rd Party characters already Smash, can vary results)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Huh? Nintendo has never sid anything about Disney. Nor Sakurai.

They didn't say anything about Nickelodeon either.

I doubt Nintendo is against Disney

You said they never said anything about Disney.

character (especially one that is more of a FF character)

He's not a Final Fantasy character. The whole point of Kingdom Hearts is that it takes place in Disney universes. The characters are Disney characters. The locations are Disney locations.

Is it not obvious yet why Kingdom Hearts is an AWFUL idea for a Super Smash Bros newcomer? I assure you there is no interest by Nintendo to have Disney characters and worlds in Super Smash Bros. I don't need a citation for that.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

And again, sales arent the only thing that matter and if you only focus on that you are missing a huge amount of variables by tunnel-visioning. Just look at some of the series in smash and how well some have sold. Hint: Some are barely worth mentioning. Hell, Sora at least has consistent appearances. DQ has slime who might not even work.

You mean the first party franchises in smash? I'm just saying look at the 3rd party characters we have in smash, they're practically all from the company's biggest series. Final Fantasy, Sonic, Pac-Man (I think tekken has technically sold better but he's their icon and mascot and sakurai didn't want fighting game character so yeah), street fighter.

The only exception is Mega Man who is an icon of gaming and was HEAVILY requested. Sora just doesn't compare to them tbh, and the disney connection is only gonna make his inclusion harder.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You mean the first party franchises in smash? I'm just saying look at the 3rd party characters we have in smash, they're practically all from the company's biggest series. Final Fantasy, Sonic, Pac-Man (I think tekken has technically sold better but he's their icon and mascot and sakurai didn't want fighting game character so yeah), street fighter.

The only exception is Mega Man who is an icon of gaming and was HEAVILY requested. Sora just doesn't compare to them tbh, and the disney connection is only gonna make his inclusion harder.

Sora's inclusion isn't just hard. It's undesirable.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Sora is a video game character from a video game. It's filled ith other video game characters like Cloud and Squall and original video game characters.

Comparing it to actual non-videogame characters isn't a great comparison.

You mean the first party franchises in smash? I'm just saying look at the 3rd party characters we have in smash, they're practically all from the company's biggest series. Final Fantasy, Sonic, Pac-Man (I think tekken has technically sold better but he's their icon and mascot and sakurai didn't want fighting game character so yeah), street fighter.

The only exception is Mega Man who is an icon of gaming and was HEAVILY requested. Sora just doesn't compare to them tbh, and the disney connection is only gonna make his inclusion harder.

Capcom's biggest sellers are Resident Evil and Monster hunter (SF and MH are about equal but we all know what the current money-maker is). But we got a Street fighter character because Ryu is god fit for smash and an iconic character. Sales are not the end-all-be-all like you are trying to imply. Sora is still an insanely popular iconic character my dude and he sure as hell fits in smash.

(sakurai didn't want fighting game character so yeah), street fighter.

lol

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sora's inclusion isn't just hard. It's undesirable.

To you. It's undesirable to you.

Legit the only reason I don't want him is because he'd eat up sooooo much money of the budget just for the brief bits of the iconic Disney characters that might come with him.

Plus there are a bunch of other Square reps I'd rather have over him that wouldn't cost as much.

Lara Croft, Geno, Slime from Dragon Quest, Yuna/Terra/Vivi from Final Fantasy, etc, etc.

And I say that as someone who counts Kingdom Hearts amongst his favorite gaming franchises.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Sora's inclusion isn't just hard. It's undesirable.

I'd want Sora just for the Kingdom Hearts music

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Sora is a video game character from a video game. It's filled ith other video game characters like Cloud and Squall and original video game characters.

Comparing it to actual non-videogame characters isn't a great comparison.


Capcom's biggest sellers are Resident Evil and Monster hunter (SF and MH are about equal but we all know what the current money-maker is). But we got a Street fighter character because Ryu is god fit for smash and an iconic character. Sales are not the end-all-be-all like you are trying to imply. Sora is still an insanely popular iconic character my dude and he sure as hell fits in smash.

lol

I wouldn't exactly call sora 'iconic', not even close to the same way the other 3rd paries are iconic.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I wouldn't exactly call sora 'iconic', not even close to the same way the other 3rd paries are iconic.

He's more iconic than Bayonetta. Not saying I want him in, I'm just saying Sakurai doesn't really care about "iconic" stuff.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

He's more iconic than Bayonetta. Not saying I want him in, I'm just saying Sakurai doesn't really care about "iconic" stuff.

Bayonetta got in cause of the ballot tho, she doesn't really count

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I wouldn't exactly call sora 'iconic', not even close to the same way the other 3rd paries are iconic.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Again I say this as the fan of someone.

Bayonetta being the case here. Literally one of my favorite female characters in gaming EVER.

Sora is infinitely more iconic and recognizable to gaming than she is.

He's also probably the second most recognizable JRPG face around the world outside of Cloud Strife.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Again I say this as the fan of someone.

Bayonetta being the case here. Literally one of my favorite female characters in gaming EVER.

Sora is infinitely more iconic and recognizable to gaming than she is.

He's also probably the second most recognizable JRPG face around the world outside of Cloud Strife.

but bayonetta is in because of the ballot tho, she wouldn't really count in that case

 

[TheLastJinjo]

To you. It's undesirable to you.

Wrong. It's undesirable because it's against the interests of the game.