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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Danpal65

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Totally agree that the "huminoid" Pokemon are much less interesting. It's why I'd prefer almost anything over Incineroar or Lycanroc (Midnight). It's just a boring design compared to some of the really out there 700+ ideas they could pull from. Heck, pull a Pokken and add Chandelure :p

It's also another reason Jigglypuff should stay. She's at least a different design for Smash (barring Kirby similarities)
I guess the one consideration they have to make is that all characters need to be able to pick up items so there would be Pokémon that could not get in for that reason. Wouldn't stop Chandelure from getting in, but there would definitely be some who would not work.

Case in point: :060:
 
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Zerp

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Her case is just like Dr. Mario but much more drastic. Doc didn't get any different since melee, but Mario did.
Kirby changed a lot since 64, Jigglypuff not so much. Look at her and kirby's aerials for exemple:

Kirby's are much different today, but Jiggly's are the same.
That should mean she's not a clone anymore, because like you said, Kirby's very different now. The N-air's gone, the F-air's gone, that B-air's gone too, I get what you're saying, :drmario: was a semi-clone of :mariomelee: just like how :jigglypuff64: was one of :kirby64:'s, and it's true that:4mario: and :4drmario: still are semi-clones of each other even though there's new differences , but the thing is those differences aren't anywhere near as vast as the ones between :4kirby:and :4jigglypuff:, and it's to the point where they now have extremely little to do with each other and I really don't think it makes her qualify as being a semi-clone of :4kirby: anymore. Unless you mean she's a semi-clone of :kirby64:, and :kirby64: alone, in which case I agree but it doesn't really make any difference, :4jigglypuff: shouldn't have been any easier to develop in Smash 4 than the other Brawl veterans because she's a semi-clone of a version of a character that isn't even in the game or something, and I really doubt they're actually pulling up 64 assets to make her every game instead of just doing what they do for every other non-clone veteran.
 

Superyoshiom

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I love browsing through the thread and finding weird assumptions offhandedly mentioned with no explanation like they don't require one.
Dr Mario and dark pot are clones, and as we’ve seen from previous games clones are always the lowest priority characters, hence why dr Mario young link Roy and pitchy were cut from brawl. That’s not to say they aren’t easy to program, and I don’t see any really getting cut this game, but their clone status alone and not offering anything unique to the cast by default gives the lower priority in general.

Miis essentially take the development time of three characters, not to mention their special moves. They weren’t even popular in the last game, so I could see them being low priority, but that’s just conjecture.
 

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Speaking of Pokemon with odd body types, I've got a great movest in my head but it's for :017: Pidgeotto. Yep, the same Pokemon who's job it was to be the jobber on Ash's team to make the enemy look tougher.

Attributes
Size: Short but stout
Weight: Light
Jumps: Many
Gliding (if any): Yes
Air Speed: FAST
Ground Speed: Plodding

Specials

:GCB: Gust: Fires a small wind vortex with a pulling effect. Flies at downward angle in air, hugs ground otherwise. Good for edgeguarding but low (if any) damage.

:GCB::GCR: Tailwind: Dives forward with a gust of wind behind it, strong wind box that tends to juggle opponent into it's damage boxes. Sweet spot at beginning on beak.

:GCB::GCU:- Steel Wing: Up-B that doesn't cover much distance but has super-armour

:GCB::GCD:- Roost: Recovers health but limits Pidgeotto to single jumps, health recovery stalls in mid-air.

FINAL SMASH- Birds of a Feather: The stage is swarmed with Pidgey who acts like weaker Cuccos, and is ended by a Mega Pidgeot flying in and using Hurricane.

So if a Smash hack/clone shows up with a straight up bird as a fighter and not a Falco clone, you'll know who's behind it.
 

Danpal65

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In case anyone wanted to see some footage of Zeraroa in action to get a bit of an idea of how it moves and behaves the Pokémon company released a small trailer that has a short snippet of in-game footage.

 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Also, isn't this Alex guy playing it too safe here? With the "Brawl characters coming back" thing and the "New DK, third parties, Zelda and Pokemon characters" thing? I can't be the only one who thinks that.
Since when are DK and Zelda characters safe? Look at last game.

Third Parties and Pokemon are the closest safe bets among this leak, and it's vague as hell. For that matter, Pokemon isn't as safe either.

Nor are Brawl vets. We only get 1 back for DLC, and many were lost in the transfer to 4.

I don't believe the leak either, but that's not much of a reason why. It feels like he's just projecting ideas of what he wants at this point for Smash.
 

Superyoshiom

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I guess the one consideration they have to make is that all characters need to be able to pick up items so there would be Pokémon that could not get in for that reason. Wouldn't stop Chandelure from getting in, but there would definitely be some who would not work.

Case in point: :060:
The misread marketable Pokémon are always the animalistic or humanoid ones. They’re either “cute” or “cool”. So the ones in smash usually aren’t the weird choices like chandelure
 

ColietheGoalie

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I guess the one consideration they have to make is that all characters need to be able to pick up items so there would be Pokémon that could not get in for that reason. Wouldn't stop Chandelure from getting in, but there would definitely be some who would not work.

Case in point: :060:
Very true, but there's ways around those things. Ivysaur/ Duck Hunt find ways to use items while being quadrupeds. Pichu found a way while being really small, etc.

As much as I love Lucario/Greninja in Smash, I'd love for something more unique to get in. Mimikyu is an idea that's growing on me. Gengar would be a cool departure, adding a floating ghost-type to the game. Even a bug-type (Lurantis would be my pick) would be something different.

Zeraora for example, is about as bland as they come, so hopefully when they add a new Pokemon, it's something exciting.
 

Danpal65

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Speaking of Pokemon with odd body types, I've got a great movest in my head but it's for :017: Pidgeotto. Yep, the same Pokemon who's job it was to be the jobber on Ash's team to make the enemy look tougher.

Attributes
Size: Short but stout
Weight: Light
Jumps: Many
Gliding (if any): Yes
Air Speed: FAST
Ground Speed: Plodding

Specials

:GCB: Gust: Fires a small wind vortex with a pulling effect. Flies at downward angle in air, hugs ground otherwise. Good for edgeguarding but low (if any) damage.

:GCB::GCR: Tailwind: Dives forward with a gust of wind behind it, strong wind box that tends to juggle opponent into it's damage boxes. Sweet spot at beginning on beak.

:GCB::GCU:- Steel Wing: Up-B that doesn't cover much distance but has super-armour

:GCB::GCD:- Roost: Recovers health but limits Pidgeotto to single jumps, health recovery stalls in mid-air.

FINAL SMASH- Birds of a Feather: The stage is swarmed with Pidgey who acts like weaker Cuccos, and is ended by a Mega Pidgeot flying in and using Hurricane.

So if a Smash hack/clone shows up with a straight up bird as a fighter and not a Falco clone, you'll know who's behind it.
That is actually a really fun sounding moveset. I could see Tailwind being replaced with Aerial Ace.

However, I feel that Pidgeot would be the more likely of the two if they were to be used. Unfortunately this would probably be due to the fact that Mega Evolution is a thing and Pidgeot basically goes super saiyan, an ability ripe for a Final Smash.
 

Superyoshiom

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In case anyone wanted to see some footage of Zeraroa in action to get a bit of an idea of how it moves and behaves the Pokémon company released a small trailer that has a short snippet of in-game footage.

That’s actually a really cool design, if he was in the base game I could actually see him getting into smash.
 

CannonStreak

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Since when are DK and Zelda characters safe? Look at last game.

Third Parties and Pokemon are the closest safe bets among this leak, and it's vague as hell. For that matter, Pokemon isn't as safe either.

Nor are Brawl vets. We only get 1 back for DLC, and many were lost in the transfer to 4.

I don't believe the leak either, but that's not much of a reason why. It feels like he's just projecting ideas of what he wants at this point for Smash.
So sue me. I guess I misused that word. What I meant was saying things people would want to hear, even though he didn't specify which characters would be in. Still, by saying things like a DK or Zelda character or Brawl characters being in, I can't help but feel he is saying these things just to draw attention or make people happy by saying what they'd want to hear, you know what I mean?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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So sue me. I guess I misused that word. What I meant was saying things people would want to hear, even though he didn't specify which characters would be in. Still, by saying things like a DK or Zelda character or Brawl characters being in, I can't help but feel he is saying these things just to draw attention or make people happy by saying what they'd want to hear, you know what I mean?
Eeyup. It's why I won't take the leak seriously. I'd expect a FE newcomer before another Metroid or Zelda one at this point. DK seems like it could get a decent chance for one. Besides new 3rd parties, and maybe Spring Man, it's hard to say at this point. Things are just not that clear anymore, heh.
 

Tree Gelbman

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I'm honestly 90 percent sure we're never getting another Zelda character.

Toon Link represents Young Link.
Sheik is from the most talked about and famous Zelda.
The Triforce three are the most important.

The rest is a revolving door and I'm fairly sure that's why Sakurai hasn't added a new rep to that franchise.

I love Impa but she's a long shot in my opinion because of how many times she's present in the action, she's equal just there as elderly lady with much wisdom.

And others like Skull Kid have just had their chance pass in my opinion.
 

CannonStreak

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Eeyup. It's why I won't take the leak seriously. I'd expect a FE newcomer before another Metroid or Zelda one at this point. DK seems like it could get a decent chance for one. Besides new 3rd parties, and maybe Spring Man, it's hard to say at this point. Things are just not that clear anymore, heh.
Yeah, it is hard to believe any leak, especially in this stage when we just have a teaser trailer with Inklings and nothing else. We don't even know how the Inklings will play, or anything else. Plus, as crazy as it may sound, even a smaller franchise like F-Zero could get a better chance of a new character before Zelda and Metroid.

Plus, like I said, how does he know this? I don't think he even spoke to Nintendo or works with Nintendo's E3 staff. I doubt he'd be able to get that kind of info so easily from Nintendo.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'm honestly 90 percent sure we're never getting another Zelda character.

Toon Link represents Young Link.
Sheik is from the most talked about and famous Zelda.
The Triforce three are the most important.

The rest is a revolving door and I'm fairly sure that's why Sakurai hasn't added a new rep to that franchise.

I love Impa but she's a long shot in my opinion because of how many times she's present in the action, she's equal just there as elderly lady with much wisdom.

And others like Skull Kid have just had their chance pass in my opinion.
bestimpaever.jpg
Let's be honest, this shows off both worlds. It's her only one that's still older, but also is in fighting shape. She's my favorite design by far, and we lack heavyweight women in Smash at this time. She's also clearly capable of anything the other Impas can logically do anyway, with weapons, etc. Why wouldn't she be? Could be fun.
 

Pakky

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And with this gen 7 is done.




View attachment 140984 Let's be honest, this shows off both worlds. It's her only one that's still older, but also is in fighting shape. She's my favorite design by far, and we lack heavyweight women in Smash at this time. She's also clearly capable of anything the other Impas can logically do anyway, with weapons, etc. Why wouldn't she be? Could be fun.
Extra thicc, I'm totally game!
 
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Danpal65

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View attachment 140984 Let's be honest, this shows off both worlds. It's her only one that's still older, but also is in fighting shape. She's my favorite design by far, and we lack heavyweight women in Smash at this time. She's also clearly capable of anything the other Impas can logically do anyway, with weapons, etc. Why wouldn't she be? Could be fun.
I feel like that version of Impa may not be taken too seriously and would not really fit the style of the other Zelda characters. I know Ocarina of Time could be seen to be over represented and that version of Impa could be seen to be more of a Sheik clone, but I still feel that it is one of the better designs of the character.



I mean she just looks like she is ready to get down to business and defeat the Huns...
 

Pakky

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I feel like that version of Impa may not be taken too seriously and would not really fit the style of the other Zelda characters. I know Ocarina of Time could be seen to be over represented and that version of Impa could be seen to be more of a Sheik clone, but I still feel that it is one of the better designs of the character.



I mean she just looks like she is ready to get down to business and defeat the Huns...
That's a good one too!
 

Tree Gelbman

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View attachment 140984 Let's be honest, this shows off both worlds. It's her only one that's still older, but also is in fighting shape. She's my favorite design by far, and we lack heavyweight women in Smash at this time. She's also clearly capable of anything the other Impas can logically do anyway, with weapons, etc. Why wouldn't she be? Could be fun.
Diddy Kong is gonna implode somewhere but I kind of agree.

Impa is the only naturally reoccurring face in that franchise, she's not of utmost importance that she can't sit out, but she's more relevant to the franchise than someone who is more recognizable like Skull Kid.

But I'd love Impa if she happened.

I just want Zelda to get more love and a new character, but I feel like it needs that face that blows up so much that Nintendo starts making Zeldas that just don't even remove him or her.

And legit I have no clue how you'd even include someone like that into the franchise. Not even making Link an avatar as a lot of people throw around on the internet would do it, because if female Link became a thing she'd just be interchangeable like all other avatar characters in Smash.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I feel like that version of Impa may not be taken too seriously and would not really fit the style of the other Zelda characters. I know Ocarina of Time could be seen to be over represented and that version of Impa could be seen to be more of a Sheik clone, but I still feel that it is one of the better designs of the character.



I mean she just looks like she is ready to get down to business and defeat the Huns...
That's exactly why I think she's not a good option. Impa is capable of tons of stuff, instead of being a clone. This one is a decent design, but isn't really unique.

Diddy Kong is gonna implode somewhere but I kind of agree.

Impa is the only naturally reoccurring face in that franchise, she's not of utmost importance that she can't sit out, but she's more relevant to the franchise than someone who is more recognizable like Skull Kid.

But I'd love Impa if she happened.

I just want Zelda to get more love and a new character, but I feel like it needs that face that blows up so much that Nintendo starts making Zeldas that just don't even remove him or her.

And legit I have no clue how you'd even include someone like that into the franchise. Not even making Link an avatar as a lot of people throw around on the internet would do it, because if female Link became a thing she'd just be interchangeable like all other avatar characters in Smash.
Heh.

But yeah, Linkle, as neat as she would be, might not work well when they've got a bigger character in Lana/Cia, the stars of the game. Then you got the factor of "why can't she be an easy alt with slight changes?" issue, which is also bad because LInk is supposed to be Male in canon. That was put to rest, as a part of how the Triforce chose its users. I don't like it, but that's what it is.

Finally, she has enough potential to be a semi-clone or more.

The thing about Impa is again, her inconsistent designs. She's either slim or elderly. However, what keeps the Oracle designs from being an issue is, despite being larger, she actually looks quite capable of fighting in multiple ways, while avoiding the clone issue. She could still be fast to a degree(look at Wario), but could show off her immense strength she's possessed lately. This doesn't eliminate weapon or magic choices either. Now, it's true she didn't actually fight in this form. But that shouldn't matter. What matters is representing the character well. This one is very easy to translate to the newer Smash games due to a simplistic design, and to be frank, I want to see more heavyset/older women playable in fighting games.

Anyway, due to being the most recurring, and less controversial than Tingle(another great choice), I feel she could finally get in. The fact she finally got Trophies in Smash helps. As much as I'd like Pig Ganon, I wouldn't be surprised if he's omitted for one reason or another(like Ganondorf's Final Smash representing him well enough, not interested in more villains, etc.)
 

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That’s actually a really cool design, if he was in the base game I could actually see him getting into smash.
Well the files for Zeraora aren't new, they were datamined forever ago. So Pokemon Company was well aware of his existence, and presumably his timing for getting officially released. I think he's a possible newcomer for Smash. Perhaps not likely, but possible. I'd be really hype if either he or Marshadow were added. I find them way more exciting than the all-too-predictable Decidueye.
 
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Pakky

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I wonder if this kitty cat is pretty much all there is or does it have a transformation?

Then again plasma fists is a tad game breaking...
 
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Tree Gelbman

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I mean also the problem with Impa getting in as Zelda rep is it appears as if everyone minus Toon Link will likely get a BoTW look or BoTW inspired look in the case of Sheik and Ganondorf.

I suppose you could throw Hyrule Warriors Impa or something in there, but I think any Impa is gonna look jarringly out of place when the rest of the cast is looking like a game she starred in, but she was actually just an old lady who sat around the entire game and made jokes to embarrass her grand-daughter.

So on that regard while you have good ideas about Impa.

It's also gonna be weird to go back even further in the series to pull a design for her. Plus Sakurai doesn't have the option of ''Well here's what she'd look like in Breath of the Wild if she were a fierce bad ass warrior."
 
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Danpal65

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I wonder if this kitty cat is pretty much all there is or does it have a transformation?

Then again plasma fists is a tad game breaking...
Nah that'll be all. I don't think there has been anything about a Z-move in the dateline or anything. This'll be the last bit of USUM stuff, we're heading towards the gen 8 games now.
 

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I feel like that version of Impa may not be taken too seriously and would not really fit the style of the other Zelda characters. I know Ocarina of Time could be seen to be over represented and that version of Impa could be seen to be more of a Sheik clone, but I still feel that it is one of the better designs of the character.



I mean she just looks like she is ready to get down to business and defeat the Huns...
If we're going with Impa designs, I can see this design mixed with Paya's from BotW, considering she's Impa's granddaughter and should give us a good indicator of how she'll look:
Paya.jpg
 

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The leak is being very vague. Really have to take it with a grain of salt.
 

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Nah that'll be all. I don't think there has been anything about a Z-move in the dateline or anything. This'll be the last bit of USUM stuff, we're heading towards the gen 8 games now.
ALL aboard the hype train.

With this being so early I can see the games being announced in summer or late summer and coming out in winter
 

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No matter what I think we will definitely see a BotW model take over for the Zelda franchise, just like how Twilight Princess took over in Brawl.
It's about time. I absolutely love the Twilight Princess designs, but they're outdated and don't reflect the current characters we have right now. You take a look at Botw zelda and see if she acts or looks anything like the stoic TP Zelda.

Speaking of which, if Zelda gets redesigned, will she be able to speak like in the games? I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.
 

Tree Gelbman

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Speaking of which, if Zelda gets redesigned, will she be able to speak like in the games? I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.
Only if anytime Link follows her around on the stage when they fight one another she screams ''And stop following me!"

Then and only then is Zelda allowed to speak.
 
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As to that Alex Percell leak, one thing I've noticed in reference to Smash leaks, is that the fake ones leave a lot of leeway with claims like "a DK character", "a Zelda character", "new third-parties (wow really :rolleyes:)" etc, while true ones, to my knowledge, have always claimed specifics, where possible. It just seems like an easy fallback maneuver.
I agree.
Too many Smash leaks are always the over-hyped characters. I think Smash Leaks are generally going to be bad quality.

In all seriousness, I am dying for a Smash Direct.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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Even if we get the real deal Smash Switch roster in a leak before it releases. No one will believe it.

I mean just look at what happened last time. Both real leaks were so glaring and in your face, but a lot of people on here were dead certain neither were real.
 

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It's about time. I absolutely love the Twilight Princess designs, but they're outdated and don't reflect the current characters we have right now. You take a look at Botw zelda and see if she acts or looks anything like the stoic TP Zelda.

Speaking of which, if Zelda gets redesigned, will she be able to speak like in the games? I'm not sure how I'd feel about that.
BotW Zelda is complete different to TP Zelda that's for sure.

I could see her maybe talking for her taunts, or in whatever codex/Palutena's guidance is in this game, but I imagine the shouts/screams/grunts that most characters have will be what Zelda has as well. That is unless they have her vocalise and shout out what moves she is doing like "Nayru's Love" or whatever, like Palutena, but I think that is unlikely.

Personally I would be happy enough if she did have a more vocal role, it would fit her character now. I think I am one of the few people that actually really enjoyed the English voice acting in BotW, and Zelda was defiantly my favourite character.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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If Zelda starts talking in Smash though? How do you handle Ganondorf and Sheik? Because everyone in Hyrule can talk now, save Link who remains mute.
 

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Even if we get the real deal Smash Switch roster in a leak before it releases. No one will believe it.

I mean just look at what happened last time. Both real leaks were so glaring and in your face, but a lot of people on here were dead certain neither were real.
Heck the same thing happened with the starter Pokémon for Sun and Moon. The final evolutions were leaked but nobody believed it, or at least were certain, until they were actually revealed.

If Zelda starts talking in Smash though? How do you handle Ganondorf and Sheik? Because everyone in Hyrule can talk now, save Link who remains mute.
Well Sheik has always been a bit more on the silent side so I think she would be fine. Ganondorf I am unsure. I do not think it will really be something to consider though unless they change up his moveset and set him free from his Falcondorf shackles.
 

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If Zelda starts talking in Smash though? How do you handle Ganondorf and Sheik? Because everyone in Hyrule can talk now, save Link who remains mute.


But I'd rather the Zelda characters in Smash just yell grunts as they usually do. I don't like Zelda's English voice that much.
 

Mr. Mumbles

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Hahaha. Anymore he says. How long have you been participating in smash speculation?

upload_2018-4-8_22-42-39.png


...

... Well dang. In which case, can I borrow your psychic powers? Sure they have that flawed "can be clouded by the dark side" or some **** going on, but they're far better than mine.
 

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Hahaha. Anymore he says. How long have you been participating in smash speculation?

View attachment 140995

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... Well dang. In which case, can I borrow your psychic powers? Sure they have that flawed "can be clouded by the dark side" or some **** going on, but they're far better than mine.
...Took me a moment to figure out what you're quoting.

Anyway, I'm not that psychic. I have gotten many predictions wrong. I just have predictions, and sometimes I just don't get it right. Nothing odd about that.

I look at what Sakurai has said and trends, and analyze the situation to see what I think could happen, which is different from what I want to happen. You get the idea.

For the record, I joined the site before Melee released(as you could tell), and joined while 64 was going on strong. I was hardly the most influential poster at that point. Just a nooblet. No biggie. Things changed.

Might I suggest reading various articles on Sakurai's decisions and analyzing the rosters and such to figure out what could happen? It's the easiest way to think of things. Another is not to let your personal bias affect your predictions. Just because you don't like an idea doesn't mean it won't happen. You get the idea.
 
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