Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PsySmasher]

I just saw Robin's new red alt with the blonde hair and can I just say... I've found my new main Robin color, sorry MRobin.

Hmm... Robin's red alt in Smash 4 seemed to be based on Anna (with the red hair and all)

But now the red hair is gone.

HMMMM......

Spoiler

Just humor me guys.

 

[Deleted member]

TBH I'm disappointed that Alm wasn't a Roy echo instead of Chrom. Partially because Awakening is overrepped, partially because the names are similar and that makes it funny, and partially because SoV is the best 3DS FE fight me

I don't think Alm being a Roy Echo would make sense if you asked me.

 

[staindgrey]

Three words: waifus, shipping, children.

You forgot the fourth word:

Accessibility.

The difficulty and learning curve were what kept FE a niche series. Casual Mode has a lot to do with Awakening's popularity, as well as the continued strong sales of every FE branded game after.

 

[J0eyboi]

I don't think Alm being a Roy Echo would make sense if you asked me.

It makes exactly as much sense as Chrom; that is to say, pretty much none but hey they both have swords.

 

[Cosmic77]

See this is why fans don't pick the roster

Waiting for someone to reply with that inevitable "At least the fans wouldn't pick Corrin" response.

 

[staindgrey]

Hmm... Robin's red alt in Smash 4 seemed to be based on Anna (with the red hair and all)

But now the red hair is gone.

HMMMM......

Spoiler

View attachment 178168

Just humor me guys.

My vote is Cordelia.

And I would main the **** out of her and not care one bit for all the hate she will inevitably receive.

 

[Deleted member]

Waiting for someone to reply with that inevitable "At least the fans wouldn't pick Corrin" response.

At least the fans wouldn’t pick Corrin.
I’m here all night.

 

[Deleted member]

It gets the spotlight in general. It was the first FE game to sell a million copies. And it was the thirteenth one. It basically saved the series from pulling an F-Zero.

That said, it's still annoying to classic FE fans to see the entire series before Awakening commonly be summed up by Marth. The starting roster for Warriors had five characters total from FE 1-12, two of which were late game unlockables and not part of the story. Then six were from Awakening, and fifteen total were from FE13/14 alone. Then the DLC skewed it even more.

Smash has Ike, who's like the Gamecube era Marth, but Roy was the star of a Japanese-only release who's only back by the popular demand of Melee fans, not necessarily Binding Blade fans.

I understand the frustration too. Warriors screwed up big time by not having old-school characters like Ike, Hector, Ephriham, or Roy. Heck, I remember seeing a lot of disappointed Alm fans too. If any of those four had been in Warriors, I bet that the backlash that game got wouldn't have been as big as it was. But this is the FE fanbase we're talking about, so who know.

 

[osby]

You forgot the fourth word:

Accessibility.

The difficulty and learning curve were what kept FE a niche series. Casual Mode has a lot to do with Awakening's popularity, as well as the continued strong sales of every FE branded game after.

You forget that everything I don't like is popular because waifus.

 

[staindgrey]

Waiting for someone to reply with that inevitable "At least the fans wouldn't pick Corrin Dark Pit" response.

Fixed.

 

[Idon]

You forgot the fourth word:

Accessibility.

The difficulty and learning curve were what kept FE a niche series. Casual Mode has a lot to do with Awakening's popularity, as well as the continued strong sales of every FE branded game after.

Y'know what, I completely forgot about casual mode. Yeah that does help a lot.

 

[The DanMan051]

I understand the frustration too. Warriors screwed up big time by not having old-school characters like Ike, Hector, Ephriham, or Roy. Heck, I remember seeing a lot of disappointed Alm fans too. If any of those four had been in Warriors, I bet that the backlash that game got wouldn't have been as big as it was. But this is the FE fanbase we're talking about, so who know.

It still managed to break a million either way, which should be telling enough of how much of a minority vocal internet opinions are in general.

 

[Deleted member]

You forget that everything I don't like is popular because waifus.

So, Fire Emblem and Persona for me?

 

[osby]

Hmm... Robin's red alt in Smash 4 seemed to be based on Anna (with the red hair and all)

But now the red hair is gone.

HMMMM......

Spoiler

View attachment 178168

Just humor me guys.

Agreed.

Spoiler

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...suruP3P.png/revision/latest?cb=20160329175406

Mitsuru for Smash, let's do this Persona fans! sorry

 

[Sephazon]

Hello everyone! I’m back again this week for some more analysis and misinformation fighting!

I love Banjo-Kazooie. It’s a game I grew up with and greatly enjoy playing, even today. Although I absolutely would love to see him present in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, there are a few things I wanted to clear up after watching the events unfold of the past few weeks. These are mainly points people have brought up to support the inclusion of Banjo & Kazooie in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Although I don’t believe it’s impossible that they’ll be present, the following points shouldn’t, in my opinion and analysis, be used for their support.

In regards to the long-oft speculated Nintendo 64 Classic, in a recent interview with Kotaku, Nintendo of America COO Reggie Fils-Amie had this to say:

“We were clear when we did the first two Classic series that, for us, these were limited time opportunities that were a way for us as a business to bridge from the conclusion of Wii U as a hardware system to the launch of Nintendo Switch. That was the very strategic reason we launched the NES Classic system. So while consumers may have been anticipating something, we view these as limited time opportunities. We’ve also now been very clear that as the consumer looks forward to engaging with our classic content that is going to happen more and more with the subscription service."

The subscription service being alluded to is the Switch online service, although currently we are stuck with only a select few NES/Famicom games. We have yet to receive any news on future console additions, obviously including the Nintendo 64. However, he did not completely rule out the possibility of a future Nintendo 64 Classic release, though it’s currently not on the table:

“I would not ever rule something out, but what I can tell you is certainly that’s not in our planning horizon.”

I also want to take a look at a related topic, which I have still seen discussed as well. The renewal of the Banjo-Kazooie trademark. This year it was revealed that the trademark for Banjo-Kazooie was renewed by Rare, due to it being public record. I’ve seen discussion that this could be in regards to the aforementioned Nintendo 64 Classic, to Banjo & Kazooie being future DLC reps for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate to even a future collab with Nintendo of America. So, what do we know?

As shown here, on December 29th, 1998, the trademark for Banjo-Kazooie was accepted and filed, by Nintendo of America. This was due to the fact that, at the time, Rare was a 2nd party company to Nintendo of America. Owing to the fact its on a 10 year renewal time, on December 5th, 2008, the trademark was renewed for the first time since its original filing. Next, on December 29th, 2017, exactly 19 years since its original filing, a courtesy reminder to renew the trademark was sent to Rare. Finally, on September 9th of this year, 2018, the trademark was once again renewed. Nintendo of America is currently not involved in any meaningful capacity with the trademark of Banjo-Kazooie.

It is true that Phil Spencer has expressed his support of future collaboration with Nintendo in regards to Super Smash Bros. However, we should also remember Phil Spencer alone is not enough for Nintendo to also be open for discussion. No doubt if Nintendo were to approach Microsoft, there would be some discussion over who to use and in what capacity, with more input being included aside from Phil Spencer. Furthermore, while it’s always good to show a good hand to your competitors, they are always thinking of what is in the best interests of their company. Of course, I’m not saying every developer is a money hungry fiend, but I find many posts boasting of the buddy-buddy relationship with these companies that is, in reality, much more shallow. Another point about Phil Spencer I’ve seen brought up is that he went to lunch with Nintendo execs at E3 2018. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody and really isn’t breaking news. When I was originally interviewed by Nintendo of America in 2016, the first thing I immediately noticed was the surrounding campus of Microsoft. These people can meet anytime they want, and I doubt major agreements would be made over a 20 minute ham sandwich break at E3.

Finally, Verge has claimed Minecraft representation will be present in some capacity in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I don’t believe there is any room for debating whether or not Verge had source(s) in regards to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Who they were and what their role was makes all the difference in the world, therefore, whether or not this is currently relevant or accurate information is left to be seen. However, if it came down to it, I believe it’s more likely for Microsoft to extend Minecraft to Nintendo for use in DLC development than for Banjo & Kazooie to be offered instead.

I have other analysis I would like to share on the future prospects of Geno, fighter promotions and DLC overall, but that will have to wait another day.

 

[Diem]

Waiting for someone to reply with that inevitable "At least the fans wouldn't pick Corrin" response.

At least the fans wouldn't pick Corrin.

 

[Opossum]

Imagine complaining that a game is overrepped because it finally got its main character.

 

[Deleted member]

At least the fans wouldn't pick Corrin.

Hey I already made that joke.

 

[Deleted member]

Waiting for someone to reply with that inevitable "At least the fans wouldn't pick Corrin" response.

aT lEaSt ThE fAnS wOuLdN't PiCk CoRrIn !1!

 

[Diem]

It is true that Phil Spencer has expressed his support of future collaboration with Nintendo in regards to Super Smash Bros. However, we should also remember Phil Spencer is not Microsoft and is not Xbox.

Phil Spencer is the head of the entire Xbox brand, appointed by Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft, and in 2017 promoted to Microsoft's Senior Leadership Team with the title of Executive Vice President of Gaming, reporting directly to Nadella.

If there's one man on the planet whose call it would be to allow Banjo Kazooie in Smash, it would be him.

 

[NineS]

Quick question, had anyone seen this yet?
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/11/15/18097993/n64-classic-rumor-nintendo-denial

This kind of kills any hope I had for Banjo and Kazooie. Unless Nintendo or Microsoft pushed for B&K (which is extremely unlikely now), Steve is now thr most likely Microsoft rep for sure with no doubts. RIP N64 Classic.

 

[Deleted member]

It still managed to break a million either way, which should be telling enough of how much of a minority vocal internet opinions are in general.

That may be, but still. How on Earth you can have an FE Warriors game and not have at least Ike is beyond me.

 

[osby]

aT lEaSt ThE fAnS wOuLdN't PiCk CoRrIn !1!

Let's be honest, if they weren't DLC, a lot of people would root for them pre-E3; both because Corrin is fairly popular and because after Robin, people would've thought there is a pattern and they want to be right.

 

[Sephazon]

Phil Spencer is the head of the entire Xbox brand, appointed by Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft, and in 2017 promoted to Microsoft's Senior Leadership Team with the title of Executive Vice President of Gaming, reporting directly to Nadella.

If there's one man on the planet whose call it would be to allow Banjo Kazooie in Smash, it would be him.

Of course, I understand. My main point being there would no doubt be internal discussion for the inclusion of Banjo & Kazooie rather than Phil himself outright declaring it so.

Quick question, had anyone seen this yet?
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/11/15/18097993/n64-classic-rumor-nintendo-denial

This kind of kills any hope I had for Banjo and Kazooie. Unless Nintendo or Microsoft pushed for B&K (which is extremely unlikely now), Steve is now thr most likely Microsoft rep for sure with no doubts. RIP N64 Classic.

Just mentioned it a few posts up.

 

[StellerRJay]

I could honestly see Chocobo appearing as a Spirit inhabiting a Yellow Yoshi since they are both speedy, rideable mascot characters.

Honestly, it would kill me a little on the inside seeing Chocobo as a spirit. Then there would be no hope of him being a playable character supposedly. óvò

But if Chocobo was made to be a spirit, I think it would make more sense for it to inhabit a Mii Fighter wearing the Chocobo hat from Smash 4. Hmm...I wonder if that outfit will still be around this time around...

Yeah, it's not my thing. Plus, I don't have the console for Pikmin 3, even if I wanted to buy it.

Fair enough! All that really matters is that you enjoy Olimar's interesting play style in Smash. Not enough people pick him I think~

 

[osby]

So, Fire Emblem and Persona for me?

Of course, Persona become popular after 3 because dating simulator. Definitely nothing to do with easier mechanics, actually good dungeon navigation and a good marketing campaign.

 

[staindgrey]

It is true that Phil Spencer has expressed his support of future collaboration with Nintendo in regards to Super Smash Bros. However, we should also remember Phil Spencer is not Microsoft and is not Xbox.

Actually, he very much is. Microsoft restructured and promoted Xbox-- and its head, Phil Spencer, specifically-- to the executive board. He now has equal representation alongside the heads of Windows, Azure and Office and answers directly to CEO Satya Nadella, and the Xbox division is entirely under his thumb.

That said, publicly expressing his support could be grandstanding. And just because he would like B&K to be in doesn't mean Nintendo ever asked in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

Of course, Persona become popular after 3 because dating simulator. Definitely nothing to do with easier mechanics, actually good dungeon navigation and a good marketing campaign.

Hey, I joke about Waifus. I don't like Fire Emblem because a good portion of the games I've played in the series have stories and characters that just flat out don't interest me. Awakening, Fates, Echoes Shadows of Valentia, Binding Blade, and Sacred Stones. It doesn't help that I'm not huge on strategy games in general.

As for Persona, I just find it boring. I legitmately cannot sit and paly through a Persona game because they're long and tedious to play.

 

[Sephazon]

Actually, he very much is. Microsoft restructured and promoted Xbox-- and its head, Phil Spencer, specifically-- to the executive board. He now has equal representation alongside the heads of Windows, Azure and Office and answers directly to CEO Satya Nadella, and the Xbox division is entirely under his thumb.

That said, publicly expressing his support could be grandstanding. And just because he would like B&K to be in doesn't mean Nintendo ever asked in the first place.

Indeed. I will rephrase what I had said. I didn't mean to imply that he didn't have the power to approve it or even discuss it, but that I don't believe he wouldn't consult with other execs before coming to a decision. Him support future inclusion doesn't outright mean they wouldn't use other IPs or that Nintendo would approach them to discuss Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine complaining that a game is overrepped because it finally got its main character.

As someone who likes to play as Red and will probably use Leaf a lot, i agree with your point of view.

Having what could be considered the main character of a game present in Smash is always good, even if it happens later than expected.

Now that the stamina and the type effects are gone, i can use the trainer in a way that i like.

 

[osby]

Hey, I joke about Waifus. I don't like Fire Emblem because a good portion of the games I've played in the series have stories and characters that just flat out don't interest me. Awakening, Fates, Echoes Shadows of Valentia, Binding Blade, and Sacred Stones. It doesn't help that I'm not huge on strategy games in general.

As for Persona, I just find it boring. I legitmately cannot sit and paly through a Persona game because they're long and tedious to play.

Didn't said you have to like it. Just don't like when people try to shift the blame to the other fans when a game they don't like become popular.

 

[Deleted member]

Didn't said you have to like it. Just don't like when people try to shift the blame to the other fans when a game they don't like become popular.

Fire Emblem is a huge franchise for Nintendo in terms of benefits.

I can understand the representation that the franchise gets in Smash in the same way that i do with Pokémon and Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

Didn't said you have to like it. Just don't like when people try to shift the blame to the other fans when a game they don't like become popular.

I understand. l was just making a joke because you said that every game you don't like is popular because of waifus, and as a joke I asked Fire Emblem and Persona for me because they're waifus are talked about alot. Not trying to shift blame or anything like that.

 

[Dee Dude]

So is Banjo pretty much out?

Cause dang, that kinda sucks.

 

[Cosmic77]

Even if everyone at Microsoft went full-throttle on getting Banjo in Smash, there's still no guarantee he'd get in. Nintendo is the one who ultimately pulls the strings. Regardless of how much support Banjo gets from Smash fans, it's up to Nintendo to make that call, not Microsoft.

 

[Deleted member]

Even if everyone at Microsoft went full-throttle on getting Banjo in Smash, there's still no guarantee he'd get in. Nintendo is the one who ultimately pulls the strings. Regardless of how much support Banjo gets from Smash fans, it's up to Nintendo to make that call, not Microsoft.

If i have learnt something from LEGO, is the fact that companies can get surprising benefits by attending a part of the fan-demand. LEGO wouldn't be around today if it wasn't from the fans of the company that made their popularity rise.

There's a chance that Nintendo could pull something similar, and find a way to cover the Banjo demand while making sure that benefits will be notorious.

 

[ganondorf_22]

As long as I don't become "You-Know-Who," then you shouldn't worry about it...

Voldemort? Baby Mario?

 

[staindgrey]

Indeed. I will rephrase what I had said. I didn't mean to imply that he didn't have the power to approve it or even discuss it, but that I don't believe he wouldn't consult with other execs before coming to a decision. Him support future inclusion doesn't outright mean they wouldn't use other IPs or that Nintendo would approach them to discuss Banjo & Kazooie.

In a hypothetical scenario where Nintendo contacted Microsoft about B&K's Smash Bros. representation, and Nadella was okay with it, then the only hurdle left is whether Nadella agrees with B&K, or if he would say, "Well, why don't we suggest a franchise that would make us more money?" He's the only one Spencer has left to answer to.

That said, he's shown an enormous amount of faith in Spencer already by promoting Xbox to equal footing with Windows and allowing a total upheaval of the brand in recent years, with Play Anywhere, the One X, Game Pass and offering two different generations of backwards compatibility for free. This isn't business as usual for Microsoft when compared to how they've handled things since the X360. What they would or would not do regarding Smash is suddenly a total mystery.

 

[Pakky]

Jesus how would people even feel if it was Master Chief?

 

[ganondorf_22]

Imagine complaining that a game is overrepped because it finally got its main character.

Piranha Plant?