Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kuon]

Why? Who are we expecting?

Why? Because of what the moderator said about licensing issues with Disney. And we don't know who we are expecting, but most people are expecting Sora

 

[Will]

To add more points: every third party company has already two franchises in.

Square is just the last one joining this detail thanks to DLC. It is likely that Microsoft will attempt something similar, sooner or later.

Companies aren't begging to make it "fair", you're being delusional. If you have actual proof that Sakurai had companies begging on their doorstep other than coincidences and superstition.

Also, we have two with three, so your argument is lacking.
Oh, and and by their lonesome.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Source or didn't happened.



Incorrect. Bandai-Namco still has only PAC-MAN.

The remix shown when the Wily AT appeared is 9's Wily Stage 2

 

[Deleted member]

The fact people would need to google Banjo is kind of the problem. Also why would Microsoft push Banjo and not Master Chief in this scenario?

Although Master Chief has an actual hidden story with Nintendo (Halo almost got a DS title in the past), Banjo will get more people in if he comes alongside a N64 Mini reveal.


They will get a huge number of benefits with the Minecraft stuff already, so Banjo can happen easily.

 

[Deleted member]

To add more points: every third party company has already two franchises in.

Square is just the last one joining this detail thanks to DLC. It is likely that Microsoft will attempt something similar, sooner or later.

What about Namco?

 

[XLIFE]

Walk down your street and ask everyone you pass who spiderman is. Ask those same people who banjo is. That's not an accurate comparison.

I had written a first draft of that post explaining why I compared them to avoid responses like this.

The comparison is in the "Homecoming" aspect alone. Spidey's been Sony for a long time and MCU fans wanted him 'back'. I assumed everyone would understand that and I didn't have to overexplain it. Same goes for MC. He's Batman because Bats doesn't venture out of the DC realm like MC sticks to just Microsoft. I'm not saying you can go out in the street and ask people. No one will recognize them as easily as ****ing Spiderman and Batman. It's foolish to think as much.

 

[Starbound]

If Sora is a legal mess to get through, Geno is not financially viable for SE and DQ has too many legal hoops to jump through, then can we at least get Tomb Raider?

Are there any legal issues I don't know about that series that would be difficult to get into Smash? Because if not, that seems like, by far, the biggest option for a new SE series.

 

[Deleted member]

What about Namco?

They are still on time to add another playable franchise on DLC.

Maybe Tekken.

 

[beans]

I sense a war between NonSpecificGuy 's business degree and @TotsBS 's diehard faith in one guy who said Sora's totally in no matter what.

Spawn Wave came directly saying Sora?
I tought he was just going "wink wink nudge nudge" about it, so if he gets it wrong, it doesnt rebound hard on him.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Although Master Chief has an actual hidden story with Nintendo (Halo almost got a DS title in the past), Banjo will get more people in if he comes alongside a N64 Mini reveal.


They will get a huge number of benefits with the Minecraft stuff already, so Banjo can happen easily.

That's completely ignoring how there are more Halo fans than Banjo fans and how Halo can pull in a new audience

 

[Kuon]

If Sora is a legal mess to get through, Geno is not financially viable for SE and DQ has too many legal hoops to jump through, then can we at least get Tomb Raider?

Are there any legal issues I don't know about that series that would be difficult to get into Smash? Because if not, that seems like, by far, the biggest option for a new SE series.

I don't know too much about Tomb Raider, but it seems to make more sense than Sora or Geno, at least to me

 

[Deleted member]

Companies aren't begging to make it "fair", you're being delusional. If you have actual proof that Sakurai had companies begging on their doorstep other than coincidences and superstition.

Also, we have two with three, so your argument is lacking.
Oh, and and by their lonesome.

I said franchises, not fighters.

Square will add one as DLC, and Namco has time to add one as DLC too.

 

[MyDude213]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WIYdKDvWKs

Sakurai is the Nomura of Nintendo, Hideo Kojima is the Nomura of Sony, and Toby Fox is the Nomura of Indie games... The Xehanort Virus is spreading guys RUN!

 

[Kuon]

I said franchises, not fighters.

Square will add one as DLC, and Namco has time to add one as DLC too.

That makes sense. One DLC character could come from Square, and another one could come from Namco. I could see that happening

 

[Deleted member]

Spoken like a true champ. My expectations for Sora just dropped considerably

But you don't understand, Sakurai would be faithful to the character and can make the impossible happen, so Sora is the most likely Square character for DLC.
I would love to see Sora in the game too, but people are hugely underestimating how much of a monumental task working with Disney would be. Disney only lets Nomura have as much free reign with Kingdom Hearts as he does because he helped create the franchise.

 

[drag0nscythe]

That makes sense. One DLC character could come from Square, and another one could come from Namco. I could see that happening

And if i am lucky, one more from konami.

 

[Kuon]

And if i am lucky, one more from konami.

Who would you want from Konami?

 

[Will]

I said franchises, not fighters.

Square will add one as DLC, and Namco has time to add one as DLC too.

That is such a specific rule.

That makes sense. One DLC character could come from Square, and another one could come from Namco. I could see that happening

The last time something made sense everyone got salty and burned down Grinch posters.

 

[blackghost]

I disagree of your disagree. You know they aren't there, but what's making them not get there? You can't be dumb and just buff every single move and call it a day, that'd be terrible balancing. Rising to the ranks isn't the issue either, it's playing overall in Elite mode, the climb doesn't matter.

What I suspect may happen, with other competitive games, is a ladder reset either on a monthly basis or every patch update.

>bayonetta and sheik not dominating online and offline in 4
omegalul

1. most fight games do not reset ranks. thats card games.

2. bayonetta will not be a force online the average player cant play her correctly. a character that requires heavy DI reads online will not dominate. shiek is another high skill character that is not forgiving on mistakes and both bayonetta and shiek have low kill power. and neither can fish for kills with smash attacks online.

3. you are ignoring internal testing. when the team made balancing decisions upon the characters crestion they made decisions on balancing changes when the character was made: kill power, combo options, character mechanics, frame data, weight, and more. the characters arent made and then untouched. those original early changes were made for a reason and using elite battles they can make decisions on characters based on whther thier fears are justified or misplaced.

4. why not buff the characters not present until you get a result? increasing a characters air and ground speed always makes a character more viable. i think you are underestimating both Nintendo and the community. they will not blindly buff they will buff the characters not present based on the characters that make it in elite battles. if most characters in elite battles have combo throws they will give other characters combo throws, if they have high speed they wil increase other characters speed ect.

5. they said they'd pay attention to results in elite mode. how is the climb the problem? you honestly think people will climb ranks with one character and then switch to another for elite battles? lol.

 

[Heracr055]

I might be in the minority here but I am okay with outdated and incredibly infrequent characters not being considered for Smash. I think this would apply to Geno, Skull Kid, Isaac, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

That makes sense. One DLC character could come from Square, and another one could come from Namco. I could see that happening

We know that Square has one prepared thanks to Vergeben.
Namco isn’t as clear, but is still likely to add one more sooner or later.

 

[Kuon]

But you don't understand, Sakurai would be faithful to the character and can make the impossible happen, so Sora is the most likely Square character for DLC.
I would love to see Sora in the game too, but people are hugely underestimating how much of a monumental task working with Disney would be. Disney only lets Nomura have as much free reign with Kingdom Hearts as he does because he helped create the franchise.

lol well then if he can make the impossible happen then I expect Plank from Ed, Edd, and Eddy as DLC

 

[drag0nscythe]

Who would you want from Konami?

Goemon.

He was a big name in japan up until 2005. He did get 2 panchislot machines and makes cameos everywhere. Even in bomberman.

 

[Kuon]

I might be in the minority here but I am okay with outdated and incredibly infrequent characters not being considered for Smash. I think this would apply to Geno, Skull Kid, Isaac, etc.

I think it's fine to want these characters and to be okay with them, but to expect them at this point would be delusional

 

[Cutie Gwen]

1. most fight games do not reset ranks. thats card games.

2. bayonetta will not be a force online the average player cant play her correctly. a character that requires heavy DI reads online will not dominate. shiek is another high skill character that is not forgiving on mistakes and both bayonetta and shiek have low kill power. and neither can fish for kills with smash attacks online.

3. you are ignoring internal testing. when the team made balancing decisions upon the characters crestion they made decisions on balancing changes when the character was made: kill power, combo options, character mechanics, frame data, weight, and more. the characters arent made and then untouched. those original early changes were made for a reason and using elite battles they can make decisions on characters based on whther thier fears are justified or misplaced.

4. why not buff the characters not present until you get a result? increasing a characters air and ground speed always makes a character more viable. i think you are underestimating both Nintendo and the community. they will not blindly buff they will buff the characters not present based on the characters that make it in elite battles. if most characters in elite battles have combo throws they will give other characters combo throws, if they have high speed they wil increase other characters speed ect.

5. they said they'd pay attention to results in elite mode. how is the climb the problem? you honestly think people will climb ranks with one character and then switch to another for elite battles? lol.

Yeah but Melee still said NINTENDO ALLSTARS and it was just another example of stuff that proves that the exception becomes the rule

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I think it's fine to want these characters and to be okay with them, but to expect them at this point would be delusional

I mean, I want Rottytops, but I know that is never going to happen, unfortunately...

 

[Kuon]

Goemon.

He was a big name in japan up until 2005. He did get 2 panchislot machines and makes cameos everywhere. Even in bomberman.

Fair enough. I have a small list of videogame characters I want, but know would never in a million years happen

 

[Will]

1. most fight games do not reset ranks. thats card games.

First time for everything.

2. bayonetta will not be a force online the average player cant play her correctly. a character that requires heavy DI reads online will not dominate. shiek is another high skill character that is not forgiving on mistakes and both bayonetta and shiek have low kill power. and neither can fish for kills with smash attacks online.

You say that as if high competitive players won't try out online. ZeRo and Mew2King for instance do it all the time. You also have these claims that have yet to be proven.

3. you are ignoring internal testing. when the team made balancing decisions upon the characters crestion they made decisions on balancing changes when the character was made: kill power, combo options, character mechanics, frame data, weight, and more. the characters arent made and then untouched. those original early changes were made for a reason and using elite battles they can make decisions on characters based on whther thier fears are justified or misplaced.

My scope is on how Elite battles specifically influence the game, not everything.

4. why not buff the characters not present until you get a result? increasing a characters air and ground speed always makes a character more viable. i think you are underestimating both Nintendo and the community. they will not blindly buff they will buff the characters not present based on the characters that make it in elite battles. if most characters in elite battles have combo throws they will give other characters combo throws, if they have high speed they wil increase other characters speed ect.

Because you're blind, you don't know what to buff if nobody is playing them. That's the entire point.

5. they said they'd pay attention to results in elite mode. how is the climb the problem? you honestly think people will climb ranks with one character and then switch to another for elite battles? lol.

Yes. You got something wrong with that? Do you honestly believe a good chunk of people won't just use the top tier to climb up, and then do whatever once they actually reach it, assuming you're right and there's no going back down?

 

[Graizen]

The DLC for Smash 4 were

Mewtwo and Lucas ( Just the Start )
Ryu and Roy ( A 3 Party with a Old rep )
Cloud ( 3 Party )
Corrin ( To make the new FE sell more )
Bayonetta ( 3 Party people choose )

You wanna know why Geno or Bandana Dee were not DLC?
Becouse alot of people don't know about them.
Thats why a big part of the DLC were 3 Partys. Thats simple.

Now we have 5 DLC characters , with Stages.
Why put a characters that just Nintendo fans know, like Bandana Dee.
When you can put a Big 3 Party character and make other people Buy Smash?

Understand now?

Thats why Piranha Plant is a Free DLC and not part of the other 5.
Why would you buy the Fighter Pass to get Piranha Plant!?

But for Steve? Milions os Kids will want Smash just to Play as him.
Sora? There are milions of fans that will buy anything that has Kingdom Hearts in it.

Its. That. Simple.

 

[KingofKoopas]

And if i am lucky, one more from konami.

Yes but the joke is it is someone from silent hill

Edit: It also turns out PT was code for suPer smash bros ulTimate

 

[Kuon]

I mean, I want Rottytops, but I know that is never going to happen, unfortunately...

Exactly, as do I. I like her more than Shantae and Risky Boots

 

[Dee Dude]

I can’t believe people are actually resurrecting the “dead/irrelevant/obscure” argument even after K.Rool killed it.

And are we using the “3rd party franchise is extremely popular and iconic to gaming so it should be in Smash” excuse? In that case, let’s add a GTA character.

 

[Roberk]

Although Master Chief has an actual hidden story with Nintendo (Halo almost got a DS title in the past), Banjo will get more people in if he comes alongside a N64 Mini reveal.


They will get a huge number of benefits with the Minecraft stuff already, so Banjo can happen easily.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/155/banjo-kazooie/
Banjo's 3.7 million in 1998 versus

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-3
Halo's peak at 14.5 million in 2007. (Plus, a series that is still alive)


I get that Banjo is popular within the Smash community that mainly grew up playing his games on the N64, but you can't really argue that Banjo would be bigger than Halo. Also, as Gwen said, most Banjo fans already have a Switch/will buy Smash while Master Chief will draw in fans from Halo which is on a different console and a genre not too common in Smash (FPS).

 

[LetterO]

The DLC for Smash 4 were

Mewtwo and Lucas ( Just the Start )
Ryu and Roy ( A 3 Party with a Old rep )
Cloud ( 3 Party )
Corrin ( To make the new FE sell more )
Bayonetta ( 3 Party people choose )

You wanna know why Geno or Bandana Dee were not DLC?
Becouse alot of people don't know about them.
Thats why a big part of the DLC were 3 Partys. Thats simple.

Now we have 5 DLC characters , with Stages.
Why put a characters that just Nintendo fans know, like Bandana Dee.
When you can put a Big 3 Party character and make other people Buy Smash?

Understand now?

Thats why Piranha Plant is a Free DLC and not part of the other 5.
Why would you buy the Fighter Pass to get Piranha Plant!?

But for Steve? Milions os Kids will want Smash just to Play as him.
Sora? There are milions of fans that will buy anything that has Kingdom Hearts in it.

Its. That. Simple.

Yes, and people knew who Lucas and Roy were. I'm honestly tired of Banjo being dismissed for Steve because "he's not relevant".

 

[Kuon]

The DLC for Smash 4 were

Mewtwo and Lucas ( Just the Start )
Ryu and Roy ( A 3 Party with a Old rep )
Cloud ( 3 Party )
Corrin ( To make the new FE sell more )
Bayonetta ( 3 Party people choose )

You wanna know why Geno or Bandana Dee were not DLC?
Becouse alot of people don't know about them.
Thats why a big part of the DLC were 3 Partys. Thats simple.

Now we have 5 DLC characters , with Stages.
Why put a characters that just Nintendo fans know, like Bandana Dee.
When you can put a Big 3 Party character and make other people Buy Smash?

Understand now?

Thats why Piranha Plant is a Free DLC and not part of the other 5.
Why would you buy the Fighter Pass to get Piranha Plant!?

But for Steve? Milions os Kids will want Smash just to Play as him.
Sora? There are milions of fans that will buy anything that has Kingdom Hearts in it.

Its. That. Simple.

But it's not that simple for Sora. Licensing agreements through corporate Disney would be a nightmare. Steve probably wouldn't be that difficult though

 

[blackghost]

Yeah but Melee still said NINTENDO ALLSTARS and it was just another example of stuff that proves that the exception becomes the rule

no it prooves Sakurai vision for the game evolved. in the game with the tagline you stated we received mr. game and watch, ice climbers, two characters FE most of the west had never seen, and a lesser Pikachu.

yep, nothing but Nintendo all stars in that game.

 

[Will]

The DLC for Smash 4 were

Mewtwo and Lucas ( Just the Start )
Ryu and Roy ( A 3 Party with a Old rep )
Cloud ( 3 Party )
Corrin ( To make the new FE sell more )
Bayonetta ( 3 Party people choose )

You wanna know why Geno or Bandana Dee were not DLC?
Becouse alot of people don't know about them.
Thats why a big part of the DLC were 3 Partys. Thats simple.

Now we have 5 DLC characters , with Stages.
Why put a characters that just Nintendo fans know, like Bandana Dee.
When you can put a Big 3 Party character and make other people Buy Smash?

Understand now?

Thats why Piranha Plant is a Free DLC and not part of the other 5.
Why would you buy the Fighter Pass to get Piranha Plant!?

But for Steve? Milions os Kids will want Smash just to Play as him.
Sora? There are milions of fans that will buy anything that has Kingdom Hearts in it.

Its. That. Simple.

Okay but did you have to type it like a haiku?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The DLC for Smash 4 were

Mewtwo and Lucas ( Just the Start )
Ryu and Roy ( A 3 Party with a Old rep )
Cloud ( 3 Party )
Corrin ( To make the new FE sell more )
Bayonetta ( 3 Party people choose )

You wanna know why Geno or Bandana Dee were not DLC?
Becouse alot of people don't know about them.
Thats why a big part of the DLC were 3 Partys. Thats simple.

Now we have 5 DLC characters , with Stages.
Why put a characters that just Nintendo fans know, like Bandana Dee.
When you can put a Big 3 Party character and make other people Buy Smash?

Understand now?

Thats why Piranha Plant is a Free DLC and not part of the other 5.
Why would you buy the Fighter Pass to get Piranha Plant!?

But for Steve? Milions os Kids will want Smash just to Play as him.
Sora? There are milions of fans that will buy anything that has Kingdom Hearts in it.

Its. That. Simple.

I disagree, I believe Piranha Plant was made to be a bonus character to help push sales a bit more because "YOU CAN GET IT FOR FREE!" as a limited time bonus. Doing that with a character people actually want would make people feel they're being forced to buy it quickly to get what they want but as it's just a Piranha Plant people see this is just a bonus that's nice to have. See Tira in Soul Calibur 6 for what I mean with people being unhappy at a popular character being the bonus to push sales (granted there's more to Tira's controversy than that)

no it prooves Sakurai vision for the game evolved. in the game with the tagline you stated we received mr. game and watch, ice climbers, two characters FE most of the west had never seen, and a lesser Pikachu.

yep, nothing but Nintendo all stars in that game.

I think you're too blind with love for Roy to realize why I said that. The argument I said that in was because a guy said "Bandana Dee is just a regular mook and can't be in Smash, Piranha Plant doesn't count because I said so". Roy, by all means, wasn't an All Star and is only popular because of Smash, which is why I used him as an example then. Same with Snake, and I LOVE Snake
EDIT: Holy **** people didn't post for 3 minutes? ****ing wild that I managed to double post here

 

[Deleted member]

The DLC for Smash 4 were

Mewtwo and Lucas ( Just the Start )
Ryu and Roy ( A 3 Party with a Old rep )
Cloud ( 3 Party )
Corrin ( To make the new FE sell more )
Bayonetta ( 3 Party people choose )

You wanna know why Geno or Bandana Dee were not DLC?
Becouse alot of people don't know about them.
Thats why a big part of the DLC were 3 Partys. Thats simple.

Now we have 5 DLC characters , with Stages.
Why put a characters that just Nintendo fans know, like Bandana Dee.
When you can put a Big 3 Party character and make other people Buy Smash?

Understand now?

Thats why Piranha Plant is a Free DLC and not part of the other 5.
Why would you buy the Fighter Pass to get Piranha Plant!?

But for Steve? Milions os Kids will want Smash just to Play as him.
Sora? There are milions of fans that will buy anything that has Kingdom Hearts in it.

Its. That. Simple.

Cloud, Mewtwo, and maybe Ryu were the only real big blowouts in Smash's DLC though. The others were characters that pre-existing Nintendo/Smash fans wanted (Roy, Lucas), a character only niche consumers would know about (Bayonetta), and a promotion that barely anyone cared about beforehand (Corrin).
Don't know about you, but I don't think the general consumer would care that much about the latter four.

 

[GoeGoe]

Goemon.

He was a big name in japan up until 2005. He did get 2 panchislot machines and makes cameos everywhere. Even in bomberman.

Hey, his latest was just about a year ago in Oct. 2017. SFC mini.