Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

Still making my prediction roster... lord I've put too much thought into this.

I need your guy's input. I was wondering do you think Pokken tournament and Hyrule Warriors hurts several certain Pokemon and Zelda characters chances. As a reminder Sakurai is the guy who would not add a stage hazard because "Playstation all stars did that already" Personally I don't think he will add Decidueye because he wants to be different and original.

Personally, I don't think it amounts to much in the end.

I doubt Sakurai is going to be deterred from considering a character just because they were playable in a small spin-off game. Likewise, I don't think a spin-off game is going to reflect Sakurai's final choices. He likes being original, so I doubt he'll copy and paste the roster of Pokken and the Warriors games.

Doesn't hurt the characters, but it's not some huge advantage like people are making it out to be.

 

[Morbi]

If he sees something in Decidueye then I don't think he'll let Pokkén influence him, but I actually do think it's an interesting question, because it would be typical Sakurai to just go for something more unexpected and unconvential. I'd still say Decidueye is by far the most likely Pokémon though when the best argument against him is Sakurai shenanigans.

I don't think Hyrule Warriors really matters in the same way, because there's not really a character that's isolated in the same way Decidueye is by being the Switch exclusive Pokémon, and pretty much every notable Zelda character under the sun, excluding BotW, is playable in Hyrule Warriors.

I wish that were true, mate. If it were, I would be able to play as the bae Saria. Or, proudly, proclaim the Groose is Loose! But yet, here we are.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Figured I'd jump on the Bingo-card bandwagon as well. Picks are a between characters I feel have high chances, some personal wants, and a few wildcards for the heck of it. Inklings in the center represent the free space, since they're confirmed.

Spoiler: Smash Bingo Card

 

[Morbi]

The only reason I have not made a bingo card is that everyone is basically going to get a bingo as long as they order their list correctly. There are so few characters to choose from that you would literally have to be trying to lose to avoid accidentally getting one.

 

[Deleted member]

None of these lists have Gooey as the number one newcomer.

I see you are worthy of joining the clan, my young apprentice.

(shameless plug-in i know)

 

[Johnknight1]

Keep some of Zelda's moves, but really just replace most of her basic attacks. They look disjointed and silly, which is major reason why she is so dreadfully designed and so woefully underpowered in each Smash entry.

She's just so unbearably slow and has such huge sourspots + lag on like, all of her moves. I know her Smashes are really strong but my god, give her something else.

This this this this THIS!

Her basically moves are generally speaking unbearable slow, they got dumb hitboxes, huge sourspots, lackluster hitboxes, and most of them just don't seem like a move you would see in a fighting game.

Personally, I think giving her the BOTW design and replacing Din’s Fire, Farore’s Wind, and Nayru’s Love with the Champion abilities would make her an excellent character. Increasing her speed would help as well.

Urbosa’s Fury could be a side combo like Marth, without the sword. Daruk’s protection could be a sort of counter/deflect. Revali’s Gale is obviously her recovery, but I’m not sure what to do with Mipha’s Grace. I think this would be a great improvement for Zelda I’m not just a gameplay level, but to really update her design as a character.

Normally I wouldn’t expect a massive change to a character, but Zelda in previous games just...isn’t good. Bowser got changed for Wii U and is more more able than his previous versions. I think we’re going to see it happen with Zelda.

Sure, her smashes now are strong. But that doesn’t matter if it’s difficult to land them in the first place. The moveset has to work around that.

Yep. Bowser in Melee was bad and in Brawl he was somewhat better. But the jump he had in versatility, usefulness, and his moveset "coming together" was huge in Smash 4. His design went from fairly bad to overall really cool and exciting. I saw virtually no complaints from Bowser stans from previous games, including even Project M Bowser fans.

The addition of mobility to Bowser's offense was a huge thing for Bowser too. It really gave him a new dimension to his gameplay, and made his grab traps with his side B made him such an interesting character to play as or against at all levels of play. The way Bowser could control horizontal space was super neat as a result, it was well balanced (the character in general was very well balanced), and it was far from oppressive.

I think giving Zelda some of that mobility in her offense would be fantastic. Perhaps even including move ideas like the ones you suggested (basically just taking all of the Champion Powers from Breath of the Wild), and maybe basing her offense off of more of what we see in combat in Breath of the Wild even (with a magical twist of course!).

 

[Hinata]

I'll post my top 10 from the thread in Newcomer Discussion.

10. Takamaru
9. Decidueye/Any grass-type starter
8. NiGHTS
7. Knuckles
6. Bandana Dee
5. Joker/P5 Protag
4. Isaac
3. Rex and Pyra
2. Ashley
1. Phoenix Wright

 

[Johnknight1]

Just a thought, but I'd love to see Smash Switch have a replay/snapshot mode like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Super Mario Odyssey, respectively. I love capturing replays, but I feel like it'd be really cool to edit them like you could in Mario Kart 8 where you could slow down or speed up a moment and alter the angle or zoom in and out on a certain event in a battle, almost like how I'm sure they are able to edit them for trailers and screenshots on the sites and what not. And it'd be so cool to have filters for screenshots you take and the level of control you had in Super Mario Odyssey was really cool in my opinion. Imagine having a neon filter like one of the newer updates in Odyssey and seeing your battle with that on it! Also, no more making replays unwatchable with updates, that was lame lol

This plus having a replay system that can upload replays easily to YouTube (Without the dumb "Nintendo Partnership program") or Twitch would be fantastic.

It would be additionally great if the Switch had built in Twitch and maybe YouTube Gaming livestreaming like the PS4 and Xbox One do, but that's outside of the game specifically and more of a system design.

 

[Starcutter]

Just had a thought, are there people who want decidueye just because he's a grass starter and NOT because he's a badass avian owl archer?

 

[Senselessbreak]

The only reason I have not made a bingo card is that everyone is basically going to get a bingo as long as they order their list correctly. There are so few characters to choose from that you would literally have to be trying to lose to avoid accidentally getting one.

Put a formula to it. Like only put 1 third party and 1 retro per row/column.

Just had a thought, are there people who want decidueye just because he's a grass starter and NOT because he's a badass avian owl archer?

I'd like him because of both. He fill a quota, YET hes a badass owl archer.

His moveset in Pokken seems like its translate well to Smash also.

Spoiler

I still think a gen 8 mon is getting in over him though.

 

[Jubileus57]

Just had a thought, are there people who want decidueye just because he's a grass starter and NOT because he's a badass avian owl archer?

I want him because he is a GHOST starter and the only one, at that.

 

[Morbi]

Just had a thought, are there people who want decidueye just because he's a grass starter and NOT because he's a badass avian owl archer?

Yes, absolutely. It is sort of like the people who want Rex not because they want Rex, but because they enjoyed the game he came from. Strange people, indeed.

 

[Cosmic77]

Just had a thought, are there people who want decidueye just because he's a grass starter and NOT because he's a badass avian owl archer?

As someone who was skeptical of Sceptile's sudden spike in popularity back in 2014, I'm sure the grass factor plays more into Decidueye's popularity than we'd like. Heck, the Pokemon's final form is the least popular of the three starters in Japan, yet it still got in Pokken.

 

[splat]

Nintendo Life's turn now.

Videos like these make me wonder why creators think they should toss yet another top 10 list of potential newcomers on the already huge pile of identical crap. Nearly all of them regurgitate the same 15, perhaps 20 characters - often with a very similar explanation, too. At least this one had some new characters in Helix and Dark Samus, but the remaining eight are used in every single list.

Just gimme a 'top 10 oddball characters that have a fighting chance', with stuff like Andy, Ray MK, John Raimi, Dr. Lobe, Tabuu, etc. Hell, give me even characters like the Infantry Unit, Baby Bros., a Federation Marine of Robobot Kirby.
Make your videos actually interesting, rather than making the same video hundreds of people made before you.

 

[Morbi]

Videos like these make me wonder why creators think they should toss yet another top 10 list of potential newcomers on the already huge pile of identical crap. Nearly all of them regurgitate the same 15, perhaps 20 characters - often with a very similar explanation, too. At least this one had some new characters in Helix and Dark Samus, but the remaining eight are used in every single list.

Just gimme a 'top 10 oddball characters that have a fighting chance', with stuff like Andy, Ray MK, John Raimi, Dr. Lobe, Tabuu, etc. Hell, give me even characters like the Infantry Unit, Baby Bros., a Federation Marine of Robobot Kirby.
Make your videos actually interesting, rather than making the video hundreds of people made before you.

There is a reason for that. There is no more than 10-15 realistic choices.

Beyond that, John Raimi, Dr. Lobe, Tabuu do not even have a fighting chance. The list would probably solely consist of Andy and Ray or a ton of weird third-party characters.

 

[King9999]

Is there a template for making custom rosters? I want to try my hand at one since there isn't much going on at work.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Is there a template for making custom rosters? I want to try my hand at one since there isn't much going on at work.

You can download the Roster Maker app here!

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-super-smash-bros-roster-maker-version-10-0-available.336761/

EDIT: Whoops that original link went to page 206 lol. It's now the correct link.

 

[Starcutter]

Is there a template for making custom rosters? I want to try my hand at one since there isn't much going on at work.

There's an app someone made for that, just search "roster maker 10.0" on google

 

[Johnknight1]

Just had a thought, are there people who want decidueye just because he's a grass starter and NOT because he's a badass avian owl archer?

There's people who want a character for any given reason. People are allowed to want what they want for whatever reason though. As long as they aren't imposing "my opinion is the only right opinion," it's all good IMO.

Personally speaking I love Decidueye's visual and physical design, the owl as a character idea, the whole archery angle, the ghost type influence, and I see a ton of potential to borrow a lot of ideas from other games in regards to moves.

There's a few things you can do with Decidueye's toolkit you can't do with any other character that absolutely excite me about the prospect of a playable Decidueye.

I haven't been as hyped for a potential Pokémon newcomer with a reasonable chance since I was hyped Mewtwo possibly being playable in Melee to be entirely honest.

 

[AadmM]

I want Decidueye in Smash for the same reason I want Revali in Hyrule Warriors.

Archers don't get enough respect next to swordies!

I do also happen to have an affinity for Grass-type starters, heh. They're always my go-to.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If there was a way that Rowlet could be playable, I'd rather have it than Decidueye. It's more popular by a decent amount, and I prefer it personally. I had actually intended to take Rowlet as my starter til I saw Primarina who I found cooler than Decidueye. Rowlet is just such an oddly shaped creature, I'm not sure it could be practical as a playable character.

 

[Applebutter61]

Soooooo hyped for E3 2018 and new character reveals so that everyone who made correct predictions (even though they didn't really know) can go "I KNEW IT! YESSSSS!"

Edit: (If you didn't know, I am tired of the tidal wave of "prediction rosters" and such. Let's just see some character reveals, Mr. Sakurai)

 

[Morbi]

Soooooo hyped for E3 2018 and new character reveals so that everyone who made correct predictions (even though they didn't really know) can go "I KNEW IT! YESSSSS!"

Of course they did not really know, we are speculating, that is the point. If I had insider information, I promise, I would go straight ahead and leak the entire roster for us. But, with that, all I have are my predictions.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Based off games that were released and pushed within the last couple years and ones expected to be out within the next year or so I would predict these.

Five Nintendo Newcomers That Are Very Likely (Almost Guaranteed) For Smash 5:

-Rex w/ Pyra
-Spring Man (or any ARMS character)
-Fire Emblem 16 Character
-Decidueye (or 8th Gen Pokemon)
-Captain Toad

Five Third Party Newcomers That Are Very Likely (And Have Good Odds) For Smash 5:

-Rayman
-Bomberman
-Shantae
-Shovel Knight
-Travis Touchdown

And here is just a crapshoot on potential retro Nintendo cbaracters I think stand out as interesting choices in Smash 5:

-Takamaru
-Muddy Mole
-Excitebiker
-Urban Champion
-Prince Sable
-Mike Jones

 

[Morbi]

Based off games that were released and pushed within the last couple years and ones expected to be out within the next year or so I would predict these.

Five Nintendo Newcomers That Are Very Likely (Almost Guaranteed) For Smash 5:

-Rex w/ Pyra
-Spring Man (or any ARMS character)
-Fire Emblem 16 Character
-Decidueye (or 8th Gen Pokemon)
-Captain Toad

Five Third Party Newcomers That Are Very Likely (And Have Good Odds) For Smash 5:

-Rayman
-Bomberman
-Shantae
-Shovel Knight
-Travis Touchdown

And here is just a crapshoot on potential retro Nintendo cbaracters I think stand out as interesting choices in Smash 5:

-Takamaru
-Muddy Mole
-Excitebiker
-Urban Champion
-Prince Sable
-Mike Jones

I always ask Bomberman (or Simon Belmont) supporters if they assume Snake is returning. Because, if not, the prediction is as impractical as it gets. If so, well, it seems like wishful thinking.

 

[CBO0tz]

I added Simon Belmont to my list because he's historically significant to video game history, but I hope his outfit and moveset would look good.. If not then I'd be wishing I voted for Alucard.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Here's a video about Waluigi's potential inclusion in Smash! This video seems to do a great job of dissecting many of the reasons Waluigi should or should not be in the game.

 

[Morbi]

Here's a video about Waluigi's potential inclusion in Smash! This video seems to do a great job of dissecting many of the reasons Waluigi should or should not be in the game.

Apparently the video does not do a good job at all if it implies that there is a reason Waluigi should not be in the game.

 

[Ridel]

Ok the comparison of Palutena, Sheik, and ROB not being in their own games is such a piss poor comparison.

 

[Starcutter]

I always ask Bomberman (or Simon Belmont) supporters if they assume Snake is returning. Because, if not, the prediction is as impractical as it gets. If so, well, it seems like wishful thinking.

I think that Konami miiight be against snake returning because of Hideo Kojima. Considering Kojima was the reason Sakurai put Snake in Brawl, a Kojima-less Konami might push for other characters.

But that's just a theory.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Ok the comparison of Palutena, Sheik, and ROB not being in their own games is such a piss poor comparison.

I agree that those were all bad comparisons. Never said the video was perfect. It just lays out many other valid points, along with a few baseless ones

I find that a lot of Youtubers are rather uninformed/have a weird perception of why things in Smash exist the way they do. So if I ever catch myself watching videos, I have to remind myself that it's almost inevitable that they will make a comment that irks me.

 

[Deleted member]

If Sakurai only wanted iconic 3rd party characters then why was Geno seriously considered twice? I could understand if he considered him once and dismissed hm for being too obscure, but he didn't. Also Geno doesn't stand out in his demand? Sakurai literally pointed out how Geno was very popular and had a lot of requests; that's the reason he got a Mii costume.



https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/21/nintendodream3/

He was seemingly left out in favor of more iconic characters, but there aren't as many iconic characters to choose from, so there is less competition for the unique fan favorite Geno.

Hell even Sakurai seems unsure of if there are any iconic 3rd party characters worth adding at this point.


https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

Also lack of iconicness might not be an issue if Sakurai sees Geno as more of a Mario character than a guest character.

In any case, Sakurai clearly has interest in the character, and that shouldn't go ignored.

Sakurai never said anything about considering Geno for Smash 3DS & Wii U, only that he considered him for Brawl.

As for wanting Geno, just because he wants something doesn't mean he can get it, especially if it's third-party. He may have said Geno was a popular request but that got us a Mii Costume, not a playable character. His popularity didn't stand out because it wasn't enough to get him through that final threshold else we would be seeing him over Cloud. It doesn't matter if he was considered before and got a Mii Costume, he isn't on the roster.

Lastly, the bottom of the barrel argument is a horrible one and that applies to third-parties. A new game provides new opportunities for characters to become relevant and even make an impact on the game industry. It's also another opportunity for Sakurai to reconsider his stance on characters and third-parties are one of them. We've got franchises like Tekken, Dragon Quest, Bomberman, Castlevania, and Ninja Gaiden from Japan alone that are infintely more well-known than Geno and have made an impact on the video game industry.

All Geno has is fan demand. Who knows if Sakurai still wants him in? Unless you want to make a case for who he appeared among the Top 5, unrealizable characters included, or how Mii Costumes would sell exceptionally well in comparison to other costumes, he's done nothing to merit reconsideration.

I want him in too, but that's one heck of a climb.

I always ask Bomberman (or Simon Belmont) supporters if they assume Snake is returning. Because, if not, the prediction is as impractical as it gets. If so, well, it seems like wishful thinking.

The Metal Gear situation has no effect on Bomberman or Simon Belmont. Konami isn't going to say no to Sakurai on either just because they may hate Kojima. Either of them getting in over Snake is a plausible scenario.
---
I asked this before, but is it reasonable to predict more DLCs in general over a longer period of time (not just characters but also stages, music, trophies, and Mii Costumes)? After all, the last game was successful and this game will have the benefit of a long Switch lifespan on a console that sells like bread and butter.

 

[Morbi]

I think that Konami miiight be against snake returning because of Hideo Kojima. Considering Kojima was the reason Sakurai put Snake in Brawl, a Kojima-less Konami might push for other characters.

But that's just a theory.

I suppose I agree with the theory, but, to that end, it goes both ways. Why would Nintendo want anyone other than Snake?

 

[Jubileus57]

I find that a lot of Youtubers are rather uninformed/have a weird perception of why things in Smash exist the way they do. So if I ever catch myself watching videos, I have to remind myself that it's almost inevitable that they will make a comment that irks me.

Its not even only the Youtubers... I read a wishlist on some French videogame site that states that since Nintendo apparently broke almost every barrier, he seriously thinks that Smash will end up on the long run being a mashup of every single kind of cultures, not only videogames. Or even anime.

 

[Morbi]

Its not even only the Youtubers... I read a wishlist on some French videogame site that states that since Nintendo apparently broke almost every barrier, he seriously thinks that Smash will end up being a mashup of every single kind of cultures, not only videogames. Or even anime.

I believe Smash is going to get Goku, and most of the detractors pretend that if that happened, all of a sudden we would get Shrek and John Cena. So you never know.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Its not even only the Youtubers... I read a wishlist on some French videogame site that states that since Nintendo apparently broke almost every barrier, he seriously thinks that Smash will end up being a mashup of every single kind of cultures, not only videogames. Or even anime.

Well I'm glad that individual is not the one making the game.

 

[Jubileus57]

Well I'm glad that individual is not the one making the game.

That makes two of us.

 

[FUNT1MER]

What are the chances of third party companies getting to double dip? Like Rabbids and rayman or sonic and tails, hell maybe even banjo and Conker etc . Many third party companies have good character choices but I’m wondering if we ever get multiple third party characters from the same some companies......

 

[PK_Wonder]

I know this response is a million years old... but you would cut the content that adds replay value to the game, new modes primarily, but would keep trophies, which literally do nothing for the value of play? Do go on. This seems a curious stance to take.

In a word, yes, but I'll definitely explain.

Trophies add more replay value than all of those things by the nature of requiring you do a little (or a lot) of everything in the game. They also represent the essence of Smash more than anything that doesn't take place in a battle - a showcase of Nintendo and gaming history. They can take you weeks or months to collect them all, providing more replay value than anything but Versus mode itself.

Customs and stage builder shouldn't require much explanation, but they both are things that you try and you either like them or you don't. Even many people who somewhat like them view them as gimmicky extras. They definitely have their dedicated fans, not saying they don't, but I could easily spend 20-30 hours more hunting trophies than I would tinkering with stage builder or custom moves and saying "that's cool" and sticking with vanilla options.

As far as "robust" single player, I mean things like SSE, Smash Tour (which is "robust multiplayer ig), excessive number of events, equipment, etc. I'm not suggesting to get rid of traditional Classic or All-Star modes or basic old school events like Home-Run. I would even love a well-done Adventure mode or SSE sequel, but Wii U had nothing of the sort but instead added a bunch of extra content a lot of people never used.

My main point was saying I would sacrifice all of the above "extra" stuff for several extra characters if it was either/or. The last "extra" thing I would cut would be trophies for the reasons stated, because I personally love them and have found more replay value from them than almost any other single player content combined. You obviously still need to have different modes to be used to unlock trophies, but again, I'm fine with a smaller Melee quantity of modes if they are full to capacity with content and rewards for doing them. A lot of the extras in Wii U had no incentive to do them if you didn't enjoy them other than maybe one trophy.

Also, I'm not a dev, but you could probably create several dozen trophies and spread them around the existing popular game modes in the time it takes to create one seldom used gameplay feature.

Just my preferences of course, hope it clears up my thought process for you.

 

[Morbi]

What are the chances of third party companies getting to double dip? Like Rabbids and rayman or sonic and tails, hell maybe even banjo and Conker etc . Many third party companies have good character choices but I’m wondering if we ever get multiple third party characters from the same some companies......

On one hand, the series already represented are among the largest, on the other, certain series are only big for one character and a lot of companies are already double dipping (such as Capcom with Mega Man and Ryu). That being said, another Sonic character might be okay because he was been around since Brawl and was intended for Melee, I believe.

If that is the case, please Mash Potato Samurai, give me Shadow.