Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MSmariosonic]

There's nothing more cringe than those reactions for Everyone is Here where people cheer at the concept, then a certain top ranking fighter in the meta who shan't be named because we all know who she is and we all know while technically she does need the nerf, it's really cringe to be excited at the concept of ''EVERYONE IS HERE" and then boo one character in particular.

You don't get to have both my children.

I agree with this

For some reason people have this mentality that a top tier character can't receive nerfs in the next installment

Cloud kept getting the similar treatment

It's one of the most absurd reasons for not wanting a character in a game in my opinion

 

[Cristaran]

I get sad everytime someone says they hate a character because they are OP, or because they stole a spot in the roster, but they usually get over it and move on.

I was happy about Corrin and Bayo, and i have always liked Echoes

 

[PLATINUM7]

I just hate DLC with a passion. The full roster should not be locked behind a paywall, especially if they're pushing for the game to be more competitive and everything. It's scummy to nickel-and-dime people for a fundamental aspect of the game.

I like Assist Trophies and believe 90% of them deserve to be assist trophies and nothing more. Sakurai has good judgment when it comes to that, with the exception of Waluigi, who has no excuse not to be playable at this point.

If you're making new content after a game is finished and released, aren't you entitled to earn some money for your work?

This isn't Capcom literally making you pay for completed characters included on the game disc on top of buying the game.

 

[Shroob]

No offense to Papa at all, I still love ya, man.


But I kinda love how TeamReal, the "**** INSIDERS" team holds up PapaGeno's alleged source on a pedestal because he's the only one who actually thinks the banner's real.


Like, if the shoe was on the other foot and he had a source telling him it was fake, you'd be crucifying him like all the others.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

People got over their hate for Meta Knight, I don't know what's so hard about Bayonetta.

I get the sense there's a lot more to the Bayonetta hate than her breaking the meta. It also boils down to her being the Final DLC character for 4 and beating other characters into the roster, etc, etc.

Some of the same hate Corrin dealt with also transferred over to her. To a lot of people not only does she make the competitive scene they love unfun because she just dominates whatever character she's up against? She took _____ rightful spot.

It also boils down to you know Sakurai outright marketed her wrong with the ''winning" thing.

 

[MSmariosonic]

If it were up to me, Dark Pit, Corrin, Bowser Jr, and Ridley would go bye-bye as well.

After all these years...

We fought for so long...

 

[TheBlue10]

I love Bayonetta, regardless of her Smash incarnation.

Big agree here. I could care less about how her reputation in Smash is, she'll always stay my favorite female character of all time.

 

[Cosmic77]

I just hate DLC with a passion. The full roster should not be locked behind a paywall, especially if they're pushing for the game to be more competitive and everything. It's scummy to nickel-and-dime people for a fundamental aspect of the game.

I like Assist Trophies and believe 90% of them deserve to be assist trophies and nothing more. Sakurai has good judgment when it comes to that, with the exception of Waluigi, who has no excuse not to be playable at this point.

Thing is, there's no such thing as a perfect roster. No matter who gets in, there's always going to be that one character where we say, "Man, if only they were in the game. Then it would be perfect." In other words, Sakurai will never have enough time to fulfill all of our requests.

That's where DLC comes in.

It's not fun to dish out extra cash for a character who could've been free, but DLC is technically their last chance. Either pay Sakurai and his team for working on characters post game, or accept the roster as is and wait another 3-6 years until the next Smash game.

 

[Vrbtm]

But anyway, it's not really locked behind a paywall if they create the content after the game is out. It's completely justified.

I mean, sure it is. It doesn't really matter when it's created; in both cases, it is still content that you do not have access to because it is locked behind a "wall" that you must pay a fee in order to get through. This is true regardless of when the content is created, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Besides, it seems that there's reason to believe that DLC for this game was developed concurrently, planned well before release. Just a rumor, no proof of course, but if it turned out to be the case, how would you feel about that? Would it still be justified?

I say it's never justified, personally.

 

[osby]

I get sad everytime someone says they hate a character because they are OP, or because they stole a spot in the roster, but they usually get over it and move on.

I was happy about Corrin and Bayo, and i have always liked Echoes

I feel like I found an oasis.

If you're making new content after a game is finished and released, aren't you entitled to earn some money for your work?

This isn't Capcom literally making you pay for completed characters included on the game disc.

There's also that. It's not like there is anything behind the paywall atm.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

That was really what the worst thing was about Bayonetta's initial DLC trailer, because having a Smash game that brings back every single cut character was my dream game for awhile. But it's significantly less novel of a concept when one of my least favorite characters in all of video games wound up in the roster, meaning that, if I wanted my dream game, I would have to stomach having her no matter what.

To me, the annoying thing about Bayonetta isn't her aerial combos, or her high ranking power. The very fact that every character in Smash history has returned is incredible in itself. That alone sold me on Ultimate. Sure, you might not like one character, but with over 70, just don't play her. It's not like she's part of the starting roster, and if you want to beat her, just play Cloud and his massive hitboxes. There's a good reason for those too... Buster Sword.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I mean, sure it is. It doesn't really matter when it's created; in both cases, it is still content that you do not have access to because it is locked behind a "wall" that you must pay a fee in order to get through. This is true regardless of when the content is created, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Besides, it seems that there's reason to believe that DLC for this game was developed concurrently, planned well before release. Just a rumor, no proof of course, but if it turned out to be the case, how would you feel about that? Would it still be justified?

I say it's never justified, personally.

Looking at how huge the amount of content featured in Ultimate is

I'd say any DLC at this point is more than justified

 

[Tree Gelbman]

DLC is good for the industry.

Day 1 on the disc DLC? No. Hell no.

Other DLCs though? Yes.

Think of it this way. You buy a house. You buy a car. What do you with that house? That car? You continuously buy things for it to extend the longevity of it.

That is what DLC is for video games when done right. You are taking a product you like/loved enough to buy it initially and extending it with new content to keep it fresh till the new model comes out.

 

[Vrbtm]

If you're making new content after a game is finished and released, aren't you entitled to earn some money for your work?

The All-in-One Character bundle for Smash 4 was approximately $40 if you wanted both Wii U and 3DS versions of the package. That's over two thirds of the game's MSRP for... seven characters.

Yeah no, I'm sorry, I don't think they're entitled to that much. Not in the least. I foolishly paid for it back then, because I was blinded by fanboyism, but I'm 23 years of age now and I'm really starting to notice how valuable my money REALLY is. So, if the DLC continues to be that expensive, I'll most assuredly avoid purchasing it. It'll be a shame, but I can't justify these practices anymore, and I don't think anyone else should, either.

 

[osby]

After all these years...

We fought for so long...

I mean, it happens to characters that aren't Ridley all the time, not that I like it either way.

I mean, sure it is. It doesn't really matter when it's created; in both cases, it is still content that you do not have access to because it is locked behind a "wall" that you must pay a fee in order to get through. This is true regardless of when the content is created, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Besides, it seems that there's reason to believe that DLC for this game was developed concurrently, planned well before release. Just a rumor, no proof of course, but if it turned out to be the case, how would you feel about that? Would it still be justified?

I say it's never justified, personally.

This is going to be a strawman argument but... you have to buy the game to access the roster. By your logic, Ultimate should be free because otherwise roster would be behind a paywall.

 

[Fortnite4Smash]

You're still buying the game. Regardless of who does and doesn't get revealed in this Direct, if you were excited back in June when it was revealed that every character + Inklings and Ridley would be in Ultimate, then nothing should persuade you from changing your mind.

Unless Isaac getting in is literally the only reason you've ever been invested with this game.



I

yeah im just joking, im buying the game no matter what.

Same here... I mean, if a Tetromino got in, over the hugely requested characters like Issac, Geno, and Mach Rider (but not as much as the others) then how would it even function? I can imagine a Tetris stage, which would be cool (a bit like one of the stage hazards from 3DS in SSF2) or maybe an assist trophy (which would function similarly) but as a character? I wouldn't say so. Then again, Wii Fit Trainer and R.O.B...

I 100% guarantee a Tetris block won't be playable, it doesn't make sense given its a square with no hands or legs, it's def an AT, in the style of Pong.

Well then, suit yourself, my man.

dont @ me

 

[ZephyrZ]

I mean, sure it is. It doesn't really matter when it's created; in both cases, it is still content that you do not have access to because it is locked behind a "wall" that you must pay a fee in order to get through. This is true regardless of when the content is created, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Besides, it seems that there's reason to believe that DLC for this game was developed concurrently, planned well before release. Just a rumor, no proof of course, but if it turned out to be the case, how would you feel about that? Would it still be justified?

I say it's never justified, personally.

If I'm given the choice between, say, a roster of 70 characters vs a roster of 70 characters plus the option to pay for even more, I'll take the latter. I means there's a chance to get more characters in the game then there would be otherwise, and if you don't like having to pay extra, you don't have to. DLC is fine imo as long as the base game is substational enough on its own to justify its price tag, which Ultimate certainly looking to be.

But if there is Day payed 1 DLC I will be picking up my pitchfork like the rest and probably boycott Ultimate's DLC no matter who gets added. Not that I'm sure that'd actually make a difference, but I don't have tolerance for those practices. It wasn't Day 1, but I refused to buy any FE: Echoes DLC either despite being a big FE Fan.

 

[Jetsurge]

I was happy about Corrin and Bayo

Bayo and Corrin hurt when they were revealed but now that K. Rool is in them being here doesn't bother me anymore

 

[PLATINUM7]

I mean, sure it is. It doesn't really matter when it's created; in both cases, it is still content that you do not have access to because it is locked behind a "wall" that you must pay a fee in order to get through. This is true regardless of when the content is created, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Besides, it seems that there's reason to believe that DLC for this game was developed concurrently, planned well before release. Just a rumor, no proof of course, but if it turned out to be the case, how would you feel about that? Would it still be justified?

I say it's never justified, personally.

So it's never justified to add content to a game, to make it bigger and better?

Like Sakurai was just doing something awful giving us 7 extra characters in Smash 4, even after working himself to death and wokring through the pain of calcifictendonitis.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing I like is that every single one of the 7 characters for DLC were not actually available till after the Wii U version. They were extra work. I felt it fair to pay for each of them. Maybe the prices were perhaps a little high, but they were all unique work. The lack of on-disc DLC was a great thing and done really well. Some of the other content, like Mii costumes perhaps could've costed a bit less, yeah.

 

[Jetsurge]

So it's never justified to add content to a game, to make it bigger and better?

Like Sakurai was just doing something awful giving us 7 extra characters in Smash 4, even after working himself to death and wokring through the pain of calcifictendonitis.

I'm sure Sakurai enjoys getting paid for his job

 

[Vrbtm]

To me, the annoying thing about Bayonetta isn't her aerial combos, or her high ranking power. The very fact that every character in Smash history has returned is incredible in itself. That alone sold me on Ultimate. Sure, you might not like one character, but with over 70, just don't play her. It's not like she's part of the starting roster, and if you want to beat her, just play Cloud and his massive hitboxes. There's a good reason for those too... Buster Sword.

I dislike Cloud, too.

I don't necessarily mind that Bayonetta is a strong character. She was a problem in Smash 4, but I have faith that she'll be nerfed adequately, so that's a non-issue for me. My problem is that I don't think she deserves a place in Smash history. She's from a problematic (yeah, I said it) Rated-M series that got a fluke/circumstantial release on Wii U very recently, and the overall tone and aesthetic of her franchise doesn't match up with Smash's at all.

You could argue that Metal Gear fits all those things as well, and sure, in the interest of consistency, I'd even be willing to sacrifice Snake if it meant we could ban all adult-oriented franchises from Smash. I just don't think they ever had a place.

By all means, disagree with me.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Sakurai is just making the Smash series with so much passion

After all... he has the opportunity to have some of gaming's biggest franchises in one game

That passion continues into the work on DLC characters

 

[Gyrom8]

Nowt wrong with DLC if it's done correctly. Mario Kart 8's was great value for money and the Octo Expansion gave Splatoon 2 a solid single-player campaign.

Also, daily reminder: characters like K. Rool managed to go unleaked, so I can't see why the same wouldn't be true for tomorrow's direct. Expect the unexpected.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

So um..... what happened here during midnight etc

 

[Jetsurge]

I dislike Cloud, too.

I don't necessarily mind that Bayonetta is a strong character. She was a problem in Smash 4, but I have faith that she'll be nerfed adequately, so that's a non-issue for me. My problem is that I don't think she deserves a place in Smash history. She's from a problematic (yeah, I said it) Rated-M series that got a fluke/circumstantial release on Wii U very recently, and the overall tone and aesthetic of her franchise doesn't match up with Smash's at all.

You could argue that Metal Gear fits all those things as well, and sure, in the interest of consistency, I'd even be willing to sacrifice Snake if it meant we could ban all adult-oriented franchises from Smash. I just don't think they ever had a place.

By all means, disagree with me.

The only reason Bayo is in is because Nintendo adopted her

 

[cooldude17]

wait, what did mystic say? cant see his tweet since its protected

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anything happen while I was asleep?

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'm sure Sakurai enjoys getting paid for his job

I'm sure he enjoys a lot of things with his job.

Money might be a big part of it but that's also what lets him be there doing all that stuff in the first place. He's also the guy that found ways to deal with his busted arm to keep making the game so I like to think money isn't the only reason.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

With all the craziness behind the Grinch leak that keeps piling up, the reactions from the insiders and their conflicting information, and the possibility of false info making the rounds, I'm really not sure what to believe. Only things I'm sure of are that Ken is in as an Echo, there's at least two more non-Echo newcomers, and that neither Banjo nor Geno would end up an AT.

If Isaac is an AT, it would be quite ****ty that Sakurai didn't reveal it sooner at the two prime opportunities to do so with the first two Directs and revealing it this late doesn't sound like the sensible thing at all. However back in Smash 4 Sakurai made a very subtle tease about Ridley's stage hazard status on Pyrosphere in an August 2013 POTD, then said nothing else about Ridley at all until 8 months later with the infamous shadow tease in the April Smash Direct, and then never said anything more about it up to the 3DS' version release, with Smash3DS not even having a Ridley trophy, until finally confirming that he was indeed a stage hazard on Pyrosphere in the 50 Facts Extravaganza. So considering the Ridley Smash 4 situation I certainly don't think it's infeasible for Isaac to get revealed as an AT this late in the game after the apparent tease tweet and possible Psyenergy item.

Whatever happens roster-wise I personally won't be affected as I already got all my five big realistic roster wants for the game (Wolf, Ridley, Belmont, K. Rool, and Snake); Mach Rider would be interesting to see how they would turn out and I think Incineroar has the potential to win me over depending on how he is implemented, however I'm not invested at all in them nor any of the other implicated characters making it in, though I would certainly like the Grinch leak to end up being true or a greater scenario occurring for the sake of others.

 

[Vrbtm]

This is going to be a strawman argument but... you have to buy the game to access the roster. By your logic, Ultimate should be free because otherwise roster would be behind a paywall.

$59.99 is the absolute maximum amount that I should be expected to pay for a video game in 2018, and more of those dollars should go to the developers (with less going to the retailers and whoever else).

 

[Shroob]

I want madness, but this current conversation is just.......


Yeah, not what I want. Today's gonna be long.

 

[osby]

Anything happen while I was asleep?

We were just talking about how DLC and characters from M-rated franchises shouldn't be in Smash because people don't like them.

 

[Jetsurge]

I'm sure he enjoys a lot of things with his job.

Money might be a big part of it but that's also what lets him be there doing all that stuff in the first place. He's also the guy that found ways to deal with his busted arm to keep making the game so I like to think money isn't the only reason.

Of course he enjoys his job. No other game developer in the world gets to work with this many gaming characters.

 

[Vrbtm]

It's not locked behind a paywall, because those characters don't even exist when you purchase the game.

...So... When they do exist, they'll be behind a paywall.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I will admit that DLC prices for Smash 4 were a little ridiculous when they were added all up, but hopefully it'll be planned better this time and that they'll alleviate that issue somewhat with season passes. Hopefully.

I don't necessarily mind that Bayonetta is a strong character. She was a problem in Smash 4, but I have faith that she'll be nerfed adequately, so that's a non-issue for me. My problem is that I don't think she deserves a place in Smash history. She's from a problematic (yeah, I said it) Rated-M series that got a fluke/circumstantial release on Wii U very recently, and the overall tone and aesthetic of her franchise doesn't match up with Smash's at all.

Because Smash brothers has a consistent tone? The bright and chipper world of Kirby mixes well with the isolated and dangerous world of Metroid?

$59.99 is the absolute maximum amount that I should be expected to pay for a video game in 2018, and more of those dollars should go to the developers (with less going to the retailers and whoever else).

Well there's also the counterargument that the standard price of video games hasn't been going up with inflation, but people tend to not take it well when that's brought up...

 

[Deleted member]

Anything happen while I was asleep?

Apparently people are still pissed Bayonetta's still in Smash.

 

[PLATINUM7]

...So... When they do exist, they'll be behind a paywall.

Just like the characters in the base game.

 

[osby]

I'm sure he enjoys a lot of things with his job.

Money might be a big part of it but that's also what lets him be there doing all that stuff in the first place. He's also the guy that found ways to deal with his busted arm to keep making the game so I like to think money isn't the only reason.

There's also that. Sakurai puts so much love and effort to the game. He could make Smash more often, with less content and he would get paid more. I can't understand when some people act like he works so much just because of money.

 

[Cristaran]

Anything happen while I was asleep?

Some conflicting opinions as usual, also Mystic agreed with Emily about Geno and Isaac not being in smash and locked his account or something