Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'm leaning more towards fake to be honest... that roster is too good to be true...

Tell that too

We are already at too good to be true

 

[Schnee117]

How would you guys react if the "missing character" was a Pokemon but not Incineroar and rather Gardevoir?

Where's the Gothitelle echo

 

[HesIn]

Smash 4's April Direct was 35 minutes and the only new character shown was Greninja. The 50 Fact Extravaganza was also 35 minutes and had no newcomers to show (with Bowser Jr.'s trailer stuck in).

...I think you should be able to see what this suggests.

That Sm4sh was very, very badly marketed? What does that have to do with Ultimate?

 

[Tako Tuesday]

Vergeben said no DK rep in a private message and immediately followed it up with "this info comes from a source that I don't trust very much" and he never made it public. I don't see why people keep bringing it up

Ah I see. I guess I was just piggybacking.
I hear insiders like doing that.

 

[Untouch]

I am confused by this
Did Sakurai go "oh btw they're bringing DQXI to Switch" or...what?

No, it was an interview with Yuji Horii, the creator.
https://gematsu.com/2016/08/dragon-...imultaneous-launch-ps4-3ds-versions-suggested

 

[mjmannella]

Vergeben said no DK rep in a private message and immediately followed it up with "this info comes from a source that I don't trust very much" and he never made it public. I don't see why people keep bringing it up

People probably just sorta spite him. And I wouldn't be too shocked by this honestly.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sakurai bias is in favour of DQ as well, DQXI was announced to be coming to switch through a Sakurai Famitsu column (Square said they were thinking about it before but never confirmed it).

However, DQ is subject to legal issues. If Sakurai wanted to put in a DQ character, he would have to go through two additional companies on top of Square Enix, plus a composer who is very protective of his work.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Probably BS but this is super Random from him

I'm confused; does this mean we missed someone? *Raises Eyebrows in skeptical* Skull Kid???

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

You got to be kidding

The moment I saw the the word “40 minutes” it pretty much got killed

And you just deconfirmed it yourself with geno added the box theory suggested only 2 more

In other words if there’s only 2 characters in a 40 minute pigs will be flying

well yeah box is on it's dying breath but its not "deconfirmed", can't deconfirmed. It's still possible we get just Kencineroar and Spirits details and Sakurai goes "that's ur lot". Not likely but possible

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Actually. Now that I think about it, a Tetris block would be the perfect choice for a "WTF" character. Wii Fit Trainer, eat your heart out.

 

[paper roxy]

My bet for tomorrow? I put all my chips on Mr. Saturn.

this made me laugh really hard

 

[Roberk]

Didn't vergerburger say no DK reps? Look where we are now

I wish people would stop spreading this misinformation: it was just a PM of Verge asking Loz18 if a certain rumor of "no DK reps" was BS or not. A source said that there would be no DK reps but the source was notorious for joking/intentionally fake info and Verge was extremely doubtful of the claim anyway.

'd

 

[LetterO]

You can think the leak is fake, but just saying...

At this point, "too good to be true" or "too many wishlist characters" are not valid arguments.

 

[KingBroly]

Sakurai bias is in favour of DQ as well, DQXI was announced to be coming to switch through a Sakurai Famitsu column (Square said they were thinking about it before but never confirmed it).

I feel like KH would hit a bigger audience. Plus Square has been flakey for Dragon Quest on Nintendo. And there's no good character...besides Slime.

Not sure how that'd work

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

How would you guys react if the "missing character" was a Pokemon but not Incineroar and rather Gardevoir?

There was some kind of "leak" stating that Gardevoir would be in and have Gothetelle as a clone.

Gens 3 and 5 are the only ones aside from the newest released one (7) without playable Pokemon.

----

 

[Luigi The President]

Smash 4's April Direct was 35 minutes and the only new character shown was Greninja. The 50 Fact Extravaganza was also 35 minutes and had no newcomers to show (with Bowser Jr.'s trailer stuck in).

...I think you should be able to see what this suggests.

Hate to pull the "oh it's different" card but I'm pulling it

50 Fact Extravaganza is just plain-out misleading to use. That was because Smash 3DS had released. Of course there's no newcomers in there; they already promised 3DS and Wii U would have the same roster, and...Mewtwo was revealed there, so. I don't think the 50 Fact Extravaganza is the one to pull here when there were literally no characters for them to introduce.

I'll give you Smash 4, but consider this is Ultimate, and consider how we got 5 characters-3 of which introduced in trailers-in a 27 minute long Direct.

I guess I don't understand why people are being so put down by the notion that we'll only get 3-4 newcomers when it just doesn't add up.

 

[Troykv]

What is the best selling Smash Bros. game of all time, by chance? Is it Brawl?

Yeah it's Brawl, it has like 13 Millions.

 

[HesIn]

In Japan, yes.

It is VERY influential in Japan.

It's a Monster Hunter situation, my friend.

It's not really hit off in the West as much until recently, but in the East?

That **** has been on fire for years.

In Japan, sure, but I don't remember a "Japan only" pick besides Marth and Roy back in Melee.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Tell that too

We are already at too good to be true

That doesn't mean any outrageously crazy leaks is real.

 

[EndlessPillows]

So what's the current status?
I got lost many pages back.
Is the grinch still alive? Is there any new credible leak? Has the photo of the box with the bag been debunked yet?

No new proof has come out against the leak. Just a bunch of text from a bunch of people.

 

[Fenriraga]

I had a similar situation. I first heard about Geno through fake cheats for Melee on sites like GameWinners and GameFAQs saying "How to unlock Geno," alongside similar "cheats" to unlock characters like Wario, Daisy, and Sonic. That's all the freaking way back in like 2003 or 2004. I didn't know who the character even was, but I knew his name, and knew that people wanted him.

Years later I'd learn about Super Mario RPG, learn that Geno was from it, and put the pieces together. But it always stuck with me how this character who's never shown up anywhere else has been getting consistent support since before Brawl was even planned.

Silent supporters do exist. Even if Geno isn't getting the most support here or in other places, there's no real way of telling these things.

Hell, apparently Dark Samus had enough silent support to warrant her appearance, even though very few people, even now, talk about her. Look at that poll at the top of the page. It's just 37 people and myself. Where's everybody else? I have no freaking clue. I'd love to know, but it's a mystery for now.


Brawl technically, though Smash 4 sold more between the 3DS and Wii U versions. But I don't count that, because they're two separate games with a split playerbase, and no one really cared for the 3DS version after the Wii U version came out.

Ultimate will be more potent in that the playerbase won't be split, it's on successful a console that's targeting hardcore gamers unlike the Wii, and it's an amazing game with all these characters people have been always wanting.

You know, I always thought Dark Samus' "Silent Popularity" might have been Sylux?

Like, I have zero evidence of this, but I feel like Dark Samus might have been a "we hear you, Prime fans, you get a slice too" pick rather than her being extremely popular herself. Because I know Sylux was second only to Ridley for obvious reasons, but obviously wouldn't work as an echo.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Didn't vergerburger say no DK reps? Look where we are now

Yes, he is an exception but Vergeben is the one who:

• Mentions everyone is here
• Mentions Ridley,
• Mentions Simon is coming
• Says Isabelle is here.
• He is also the one who says ICs and Snake is here.
• He also is the one who says Ken is here, in which we already confirmed that Ken existed.

He is one of the OGs of Smash leakers and one of the most trusted. I just dont get why people hated him despite his sources being near 100%

 

[StrawHatX]

Damn...that would be something crazy if we had an “echo trailer” in the middle of the Direct where they just roll out like 5-6 Echos.

Maybe Ken, Shadow, Dixie, Protoman, Black Shadow, and Hilda.

Not going to happen, but I wouldn’t complain..

 

[Z25]

Also to clear something up.

Jon did not shoot geno down or claim that DQ would get in first.

He said he thinks that maybe they missed the mark and would negotiate for geno once the game was done. But then Andre and Derrick who fully believe Geno is in, reminded Jon they already had the rights for the mii costume.

Thinking afterwards, Jon stated that he forgot that and sees no hurdles for Geno. He also said he wouldn't be shock if Geno was the first DLC announced in the direct.

As for DQ, Derrick bought up that dragon quest would win japan and Jon agreed, it didn't specifically say he thinks its getting a rep though.

Just thought I'd clarify those as these two are big points.

 

[CosmicQuark]

How would you guys react if the "missing character" was a Pokemon but not Incineroar and rather Gardevoir?

Part of me would get a cathartic glee from all of the insiders proven wrong in such a hilarious fashion, even if the banner was as well. Though, for Noipoi I'm rooting for Incineroar in addition to the banner. I need to restrain my more immature impulses*

*not like I have been

 

[Fablemad]

PEOPLE OF SMASHBOARDS! I'm almost there! My bday is on thursday! LEND ME YOUR ENERGY!

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Nope, never said that. Someone told him that but he didn’t believe it.

You mean he backpedaled at the very last minute.

 

[Tako Tuesday]

I wish people would stop spreading this misinformation: it was just a PM of Verge asking Loz18 if a certain rumor of "no DK reps" was BS or not. A source said that there would be no DK reps but the source was notorious for joking/intentionally fake info and Verge was extremely doubtful of the claim anyway.

Thanks for the info. I clarified myself already, I was just going off what I heard.

 

[Munomario777]

yeah he just meant skull kid lol

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Polan]

Hey, you know who is the most reliable Smash insider out of all of them?

Vergeben.

*Drops Mic*

it would be hilarious if after all the bull**** that the smash fanbase threw at him, vergeben was the only insider left standing.

 

[Bladeviper]

Yes, he is an exception but he is the one who:

• Mentions everyone is here
• Mentions Ridley,
• Mentions Simon is coming
• Says Isabelle is here.
• He is also the one who says ICs and Snake is here.
• He also is the one who says Ken is here, in which we already confirmed that Ken existed.

He is one of the OGs of Smash leakers and one of the most trusted. I just dont get why people hated him despite his sources being near 100%

he didnt mention everyone is here, he said not cuts. he didnt say pichu, y. link and the rest were back just snake an ic's

 

[KMDP]

Tell me, I'm intrigued

Okay... so...

The biggest hurdle is "how the hell would a Tetris Block even move?", right?

Well, what if, as it was moving, it "grew" other blocks, constantly shifting as it moves around? You could even use this for attacks.

It's a bit of a complex thing to describe.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Dragon Quest as influential as Lara Croft and Final Fantasy?

It's arguable DQ is far more influential than Lara Croft in the east, as I doubt she has much influence at all over there similarly to how DQ has zero influence here, meanwhile DQ is so big in Japan it's basically an unofficial holiday everytime they drop one

I would put FF over DQ though, as it's big in both regions

 

[Untouch]

Also to clear something up.

Jon did not shoot geno down or claim that DQ would get in first.

He said he thinks that maybe they missed the mark and would negotiate for geno once the game was done. But then Andre and Derrick who fully believe Geno is in, reminded Jon they already had the rights for the mii costume.

Thinking afterwards, Jon stated that he forgot that and sees no hurdles for Geno. He also said he wouldn't be shock if Geno was the first DLC announced in the direct.

As for DQ, Derrick bought up that dragon quest would win japan and Jon agreed, it didn't specifically say he thinks its getting a rep though.

Just thought I'd clarify those as these two are big points.

WIth the legal mess around DQ, getting the rights but not a character would be pretty absurd honestly, but we'll see.
I still am sticking to my guns and am confident that the Minecraft content that was mentioned by Vergeben is actually a Dragon Quest Builders stage.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

yeah he just meant skull kid lol

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If this is true does that mean Chair Theory was legit?

 

[Starbound]

Hoo boy, this has been absolutely wild!

Yeah, but he still has some ties to the industry.
He guessed all those FF titles, Captain Toad 3ds and pulled Kirby's Epic Yarn 3d out of thin air.

He also tells a lot of lies, so it's hard to know for sure.

I don't think Jon lies. There's stuff he knows (evidently) and there's stuff he comes in as a fan on.

He really likes Chibi Robo and Tetris so I think that's his inner fanboy. I legit don't think he's trying to be deceptive; he's too nice of a guy to do that.

The likely situation is there's some actual info in his predictions mixed in with his own wants, and we have to figure out what that is.

ZhugeEX was team Fake since the first day tho. He never said anything, just placed a vote in the poll, and only now commented.

Also.

Time to put my tinfoil hat on.

Sora is in.

Oh boy if he's entering the ring I'm not prepared for any bombshells he can drop.

Also I hope he's joking but, someone decided to make a Jiggy joke with Banjo and he answered


Source

Hopefully it means nothing-

I hope.

ngl I would totally be okay with a playable Tetromino in a game that is all about gaming history. It seems sooooooo fitting.

Hopefulyl Banjo is DLC then.

The resetera "putting the piece together" ZhugeEX hint may be referring to this post

This is not a good timeline abort mission

 

[TheAJJohnson]

As we are no doubt aware, there is a Smash Bros direct happening on November 1st. (Hype train. Choo choo!) Immediately following the direct, there will be a Nintendo Treehouse stream.


Here are the things we know:


* The longest Smash Bros. Directs ever were the 50-Fact Extravaganza and the Final Video Presentation for Sm4sh, coming in at about 35 and 33 minutes, respectively.
* The most recent August Smash Direct was about 27 minutes long while the E3 2018 Smash segment was about 25 minutes long.
* The November Direct will be about 39.5 minutes long. This is the longest Smash Bros related direct ever!
* The total time spent covering Super Smash Bros Ultimate in official videos (outside of the E3 2018 Nintendo Treehouse and advertisements) comes out to be about 60 minutes. (This is counting the initial reveal, the E3 direct, the August direct, and the Isabelle reveal.)
* All reveal trailers for Ultimate have been around 2 minutes, with Simon's being the longest at 3:04 minutes (because of the dual reveal). (If you look at past reveals, they keep with this tradition. Cloud's trailer is the longest with Palutena coming in a close second, at 3:03 and 3:01, respectively.)
* Chrom and Dark Samus had a combined reveal time of about 1.5 minutes, about 45 seconds each (a little more if you include the 15 seconds he uses to talk about). Daisy and Richter had about 30 seconds each dedicated to them (if you don't count the time spent on Richter in the Simon reveal trailer).
* Items, Pokémon, and Assist Trophies took up about 1 minute in the E3 Direct and about 4.5 minutes in the August Direct.
* No Smash Directs outside of E3 have ever had a Treehouse livestream afterwards.


Also, an important note - There are two scenarios I see happening when it comes to newcomers: the Grinch leak being real and we get 7 newcomers (5 unique) OR the Kencineroar Theory being real and we get 3-5 newcomers (2-3 unique). It's understood that we will not have anything truly concrete until the Direct on Thursday. However, I feel the Grinch leak is real and the following points will detail why that is.


Now, with all of that being said, let's go over some assumptions:


* Let's assume each reveal trailer for upcoming newcomers keeps with tradition: 2-3 minutes. I'll go a little on the higher side, saying that each one will be 2.75 minutes.
* Let's also assume that any echoes revealed will get a maximum of 45 seconds each, again keeping with tradition.
* We will most likely get all remaining items, Pokémon, and Assist Trophies shown off in this direct. Let's assume that this will take up a little less space than the time in the August Direct as we assume we know a majority of the items/Pokémon/AT now and are just getting the last few (2-2.5 minutes).
* Assuming there are any more stages to be revealed, they probably won't be detailed unless they aren't connected to a newcomer (in other words, it's either a returning stage or an original stage made from an already represented franchise). Stages coming with newcomers will probably be shown off during the reveal trailer.
* Lastly, there are many aspects of the game that we still don't know about. This includes: the green node (rumored to be "Spirits mode"), the blurred out icon on the side menu, the online mode, the vault, and any additional non-traditional, multiplayer Smash modes (e.g., home-run contest, break the targets, multi-man smash, etc.). Assuming Sakurai doesn't want to reveal EVERYTHING in the game before release, it safe to assume that some stuff will be covered in depth while others will be covered very briefly or not at all.


Now, let's move on to my theory as to why we have a Treehouse livestream after the event:


* The only modes I see Sakurai going into great detail for are: Online and the Green Mode. The two of these will probably take up about 15-18 minutes, with more time being spent on the latter. Additional non-traditional, multiplayer Smash modes, as well as the vault, will probably be smashed into a quick, montage-like segment. I can see this taking up about 2-3 minutes.
* The Items/Pokémon/AT segment will take 2-2.5.
* Let's assume we get no more than 2 echoes, something that I feel is consistent across both newcomer theories (both share Ken while Shadow is highly like for one and confirmed for the other). Again, the total time spent here will total 1.5 minutes.
* Adding up the time above, assuming the high end, we come to a total of 25 minutes of content. That leaves the remaining 14.5 minutes for character reveals.


If we work off of the assumption that each trailer is about 2.75 minutes long, and we assume the Grinch leak is true, then that comes to a total run time of 13.75 minutes for all reveals. That fits perfectly, with 45 seconds to spare for transitions throughout the direct. If the Kencineroar Theory is true, then we will have up to 8.25 minutes of reveals, leaving us with 6.25 minutes.


This last point is why I believe the Grinch leak. If the Kencineroar Theory is true, then sure, that's an extra 6.25 minutes to spend on other parts of the game. But if not, then everything else can still reasonably fit into the direct. And from my research, there is a ton going for the validity of the leak.


"But what about talking about the characters, like Simon got in the August direct and Corrin, Cloud, and Bayonetta got in the Final Sm4sh Direct?" We'll I'm glad you asked. This is where the livestream comes in. Just like Ridley and Inklings at E3, the livestream is meant to flesh out the details of each newcomer. This is where we hear about their stage, their moves, why they were included, etc. It's perfect. No time has to be dedicated to explaining them in the direct. Just straight adrenaline pumped into your eyes for 40 minutes straight.


I could be horribly wrong, but I don't care! I'm riding this hype train straight into the Golden Sun!

 

[Luigi The President]

yeah he just meant skull kid lol

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Absolute ****ing omegalol if the leak is real and we still get one last surprise in Skull Kid, RIGHT underneath our noses

 

[Deleted member]

In Japan, sure, but I don't remember a "Japan only" pick besides Marth and Roy back in Melee.

Nintendo is a company that is historically proven to base their decisions on what their home market would enjoy and everyone else second.

A DQ rep is more possible than some would care to admit.

 

[Zinith]

PEOPLE OF SMASHBOARDS! I'm almost there! My bday is on thursday! LEND ME YOUR ENERGY!View attachment 173832

I got lotsa energy to spare...