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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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SlickWylde

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I really feel like Link will just keep the Master Sword and his bomb will become the Sheikah Slate Bomb and his side special might be replaced with Magnesis but it'll probably just be a Lizal Boomerang.

I don't see BotW Link having a major moveset redesign.
My unpopular prediction is that he is going to be the same, but just have a different skin. Or they'll do different effects like in Brawl or Sm4sh. "It's not Boomerang anymore, now it's gale wind"
 

Radical Bones

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My unpopular prediction is that he is going to be the same, but just have a different skin. Or they'll do different effects like in Brawl or Sm4sh. "It's not Boomerang anymore, now it's gale wind"
For me it's like, why would they update Link's entire moveset for one (very popular, I agree) game? 95% of Link's moveset still makes sense, even the boomerang. The only item we didn't see in BotW was the hookshot. I don't think we'll see 'Twilight Link' and 'Wild Link' - especially as Wild Link would be a new character thus be given a trailer of his own.
 

Senselessbreak

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That doesn't sound like good design whatsoever.



With the number of other available NES era characters that weren't stated to have been denied for moveset/functioning reasons, by the time all other options have been used up, the Wii U will be considered a retro console and Smash may not even be a thing anymore, let alone be going out of its way to include someone from that era.

Not only that, "Eventually" and "This is Sakurai we're talking about" does not go together.

"Eventually", Sakurai's going to retire, and that will long before all other possible options have been exhausted to where he's "forced" to reconsider on the two (along with others he's denied like Bubbles and Urban Champion). Hell, you don't even seem to realize that they won't both get in at the same time based on the perceived notion that there's some "token NES rep" with each game. They would both be at least one game apart, putting further question into the "eventuality".

There is absolutely no reason to assume either are guaranteed to be made playable "eventually".
Melee got Ice Climbers and Mr G&W
Brawl got Pit and ROB
4 got Little Mac and Duck Hunt

If each game continues to get 2 NES or older characters it wont be that long. Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, Excite Rider, Diskun, Urban Champion, are characters I expect as Nintendo still continues to reuse all of them in some form or whether its a cameo, stage, port or something like NES remix. 7 characters is 3 1/2 games worth of retros, so that basically a decade from now.
 

mario123007

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Some dont. The big idea ive been hearing is Rex being the character with Both Pyra and Mythra helping.
Well.... My concept of Pyra/Mythra and other two Rare Blades helping, is they give Rex the moveset. And Rex fights by himself until he uses final Smash, or at least doing special attacks.
Who wouldn't sleep on Mythra :p

That said, I figure she'd just be part of Pyras Final Smash. The character selection screen will either be just "Rex" or "Rex and Pyra" but Mythra will find herself into the moveset one way or another.
Rex can swap Pyra and Pythra without cool down, unless he swap to other Blades.

I have mention my idea for Rex in Smash, but it is complicated and might not be feasible for certain controllers.
 

Gimmick-Hater

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What? Why do you actively want characters to be removed? Why can’t you just not play as them?
Over-representation, bland/uninspired move-set, or the fact that they could potentially steal development time from now characters (if they don't, then go ahead and bring them back, but that in Smash 4 a new character like Bowser Jr. was given more priority than Mewtwo).
 

Polan

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Where in my post did I say that the developers should start from a blank slate? Nowhere. It'd be foolish of the developers not take some stuff from Smash 4, but that still wouldn't change my mind about he roster being smaller. It doesn't need to be significantly cut down, but I still want to see cuts.
Most of the people I've seen advocating for a smaller roster also want to start from a clean slate so I assumed you were probably calling for the same. Also a smaller roster ≠ better. 64 and Melee still had clones and boring movesets.
 
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Knight Dude

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I really feel like Link will just keep the Master Sword and his bomb will become the Sheikah Slate Bomb and his side special might be replaced with Magnesis but it'll probably just be a Lizal Boomerang.

I don't see BotW Link having a major moveset redesign.
I can see most of his moves just being cosmetic changes too. Glad to see I'm not alone in this. Most of what Link does in Smash encompasses the character in his own games and all that good ****. That's what 64 and Melee got OoT Link, and Brawl/Smash 4 got TP Link, they have major differences in abilities(namely the Wolf stuff for TP Link). But what they had in common could simply be changed how it looks while keeping its original function.

That said, it wouldn't be the first time a character has been updated, but I think these changes still need to keep the character's intended playstyle intact, even if the changes are noticeable.
 

BrytonJ

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Hey assuming Lucario doesn't get cut for whatever reason do we think he'll still talk? Or like use some kind of psychic aura speak thing or whatever he does? It's pretty weird that he doesn't just grunt or say his name or whatever like the other smash Pokemon. I'm pretty sure he only talks because he could in a movie or something right?

Of course all of this goes out the window if all Lucario can talk in the anime so my apologies if that's the case.
 

Rocket Raccoon

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Hey assuming Lucario doesn't get cut for whatever reason do we think he'll still talk? Or like use some kind of psychic aura speak thing or whatever he does? It's pretty weird that he doesn't just grunt or say his name or whatever like the other smash Pokemon. I'm pretty sure he only talks because he could in a movie or something right?

Of course all of this goes out the window if all Lucario can talk in the anime so my apologies if that's the case.
Why wouldn't he talk? They have Goku's voice actor for him. Why the **** would they change it?
 

Knight Dude

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Hey assuming Lucario doesn't get cut for whatever reason do we think he'll still talk? Or like use some kind of psychic aura speak thing or whatever he does? It's pretty weird that he doesn't just grunt or say his name or whatever like the other smash Pokemon. I'm pretty sure he only talks because he could in a movie or something right?

Of course all of this goes out the window if all Lucario can talk in the anime so my apologies if that's the case.
If he stays, which is likely the case, he'll probably still will talk, since most of his voice clips are re-used.

Most of the people I've seen advocating for a smaller roster also want to start from a clean slate so I assumed you were probably calling for the same. Also a smaller roster ≠ better. 64 and Melee still had clones and boring movesets.
Maybe he thinks that whatever characters were in before and make it back will be re-worked in terms of moves. I do think this will happen to some extent, but it won't be as drastic as some make it out to be. At least IF this game is heavily based on SSB4.
 

Camc10

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Hey assuming Lucario doesn't get cut for whatever reason do we think he'll still talk? Or like use some kind of psychic aura speak thing or whatever he does? It's pretty weird that he doesn't just grunt or say his name or whatever like the other smash Pokemon. I'm pretty sure he only talks because he could in a movie or something right?

Of course all of this goes out the window if all Lucario can talk in the anime so my apologies if that's the case.
Yes, only a spefific Lucario can talk, the one from the movie.
 

PSIguy89

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Is anyone else just a tad surprised Mario never got his wing cap for his up B?? Like that would have been such a good choice...or even having the cape be his up B
 

BrytonJ

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Why wouldn't he talk? They have Goku's voice actor for him. Why the **** would they change it?
Hey I'm not saying I'm against it! I'm all for it! If a video game in 2018 had a character who's ability to speak only makes sense within the context of a movie that came out in 2005 I would unironicaly love that.
 

LittleMissEevee

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LittleMissEevee LittleMissEevee In future use the + Quote button to stack up messages you want to reply to instead of multi-posting.

On topic, I don't think vets ever get in the way or newcomers but I do think newcomers get priority over veterans outside of the must-haves of Mario, Link and the like.

You were always going to get more out of Lucario in Brawl instead of bringing Mewtwo back.
Oh that’s what they meant, how do I multi quote on here? And yeah I see that
 
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Melee got Ice Climbers and Mr G&W
Brawl got Pit and ROB
4 got Little Mac and Duck Hunt

If each game continues to get 2 NES or older characters it wont be that long. Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, Excite Rider, Diskun, Urban Champion, are characters I expect as Nintendo still continues to reuse all of them in some form or whether its a cameo, stage, port or something like NES remix. 7 characters is 3 1/2 games worth of retros, so that basically a decade from now.
You're falling on patterns that don't work. The only Smash that added two characters that are actually from the "NES era" was Brawl.

Mr. Game & Watch pre-dates literally every other character in the roster that isn't PAC-MAN.
He's Mr. Game & Watch for a REASON. He never even HAD a release on the NES.

And Little Mac?
He represents the Arcade era a hell of a lot more than the NES era. And that's not factoring in that he also heavily represents the 2009 Wii game, making him being a "retro" to begin with somewhat questionable.

As for R.O.B. and Duck Hunt? They were added more for their historical significance rather than just "they are from the NES era", something Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker do not share with them.
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
Peach could do with a new side special and down(you said you meant neutral right?) special to be honest. And a whole bunch of characters.
I dunno, I don't like the way Peach Bomber looks but it's such a useful tool for dealing with gaps and it's so safe on shield. Toad can be replaced easily though: the Heart Barrier from Double Dash, the Vibe Scepter from SPP, even just an attack called HeartBreaker where she surrounds herself in a heart and if she's hit it breaks and the opponents are blasted away, it's so easy to whip up a new counter.
 

Swamp Sensei

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This Elma talk got me thinking.

And I realize what I'm going to say may be crazy but...

Could Elma be included due to a desire for diversity?

She's one of the few popular women of color Nintendo has, and as the main protagonist of a game that came out between Smash 4 and Smash 5, I think she may have a better shot than most people think.
 

Senselessbreak

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You're falling on patterns that don't work. The only Smash that added two characters that are actually from the "NES era" was Brawl.

Mr. Game & Watch pre-dates literally every other character in the roster that isn't PAC-MAN.
He's Mr. Game & Watch for a REASON. He never even HAD a release on the NES.

And Little Mac?
He represents the Arcade era a hell of a lot more than the NES era. And that's not factoring in that he also heavily represents the 2009 Wii game, making him being a "retro" to begin with somewhat questionable.

As for R.O.B. and Duck Hunt? They were added more for their historical significance rather than just "they are from the NES era", something Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker do not share with them.
Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker are less retro than Little Mac though. As I said before, the Excite series got 2 Wii titles as well as a Wiiware title in 2009 after Punchout for Wii, plus a stage in Mario Kart. And Balloon Fight had the Tingle DS game, a world in Nintendo Land in 2012 plus many other cameos. So I said before Nintendo continues to use them and its only a matter of time before Sakurai or whoever is in charge puts them in a Smash title due to their legacy with Nintendo.
 

PixelSun

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Is anyone else just a tad surprised Mario never got his wing cap for his up B?? Like that would have been such a good choice...or even having the cape be his up B
I guess they will rework his upB to include Cappy in some weird way (or even his sideB!).
 
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Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
This Elma talk got me thinking.

And I realize what I'm going to say may be crazy but...

Could Elma be included due to a desire for diversity?

She's one of the few popular women of color Nintendo has, and as the main protagonist of a game that came out between Smash 4 and Smash 5, I think she may have a better shot than most people think.
Her design is a breath of fresh air, or at least her main design is. I don't trust them to actually try like that though, especially when Inklings and the new Villager designs offer skin tones and they might treat them as sufficient on that diversity front.
 

RandomAce

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This Elma talk got me thinking.

And I realize what I'm going to say may be crazy but...

Could Elma be included due to a desire for diversity?

She's one of the few popular women of color Nintendo has, and as the main protagonist of a game that came out between Smash 4 and Smash 5, I think she may have a better shot than most people think.
I never actually thought of it that way. Heard a lot of people say that a character shouldn't be added just because she is female or this or that.

I always wanted Elma to be in smash since she seems to be a very unique character with her gunblades.

I'm not sure if this is true but didn't someone say that there was another game being made by Monolith Soft.

Whether or not it's true, my ideal situation is that if Monolith Soft is working on Xenoblade X port or X2 (maybe both), they'll add Elma as DLC.

I would buy the hell out of that.
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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This Elma talk got me thinking.

And I realize what I'm going to say may be crazy but...

Could Elma be included due to a desire for diversity?

She's one of the few popular women of color Nintendo has, and as the main protagonist of a game that came out between Smash 4 and Smash 5, I think she may have a better shot than most people think.
I've said this before and I'll say it again; characters should be included because of who they are, not what they are.
 

ColietheGoalie

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So, what would everyone here change about/add to
Character victory themes
Character victory poses
And the Victory Screen itself. (64 had checkered squares, Melee had a black background, Brawl had the Desert from the E3 trailer, Smash 4 had the middle of nowhere)
I'd love if everyone had a unique victory theme. I mean, almost every character has a theme of some kind tied to them in their original series already, why not use them? Give Luigi something from Luigi's Mansion, Dedede his actual theme, use Fire Emblem themes from the corresponding game, etc.

Also love the idea of having the fiery Smash symbol as the backdrop of the new Victory Screen.
 

N3ON

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Sakurai doesn't seem to add characters because they are female or because they are villains; I doubt he thinks along these terms either.
 

RandomAce

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One thing I hope they try to do for this "new" smash for switch is to try to cater a little bit more to the competitive scene. Smash 4 was off to a good start, but there were obvious flaws in the attempts of doing so, such as the For Glory Mode/Omega Stages being based off of a meme, and mechanics such as Rage that is a pain to keep in mind when playing.

Is there anything you guys want them to add to help support the competitive scene?
 
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ColietheGoalie

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I've said this before and I'll say it again; characters should be included because of who they are, not what they are.
WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE? Seriously.

WHAT - A female protagonist of color that the OP thinks would make an interesting addition to the roster.

WHO - A female protagonist of color that the OP thinks would make an interesting addition to the roster.

Is this how people are trying to discredit others ideas these days? By just getting really pedantic about stuff?
 

Danpal65

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One thing I hope they try to do for this "new" smash for switch is to try to cater a little bit more to the competitive scene. Smash 4 was off to a good start, but there were obvious flaws in the attempts of doing so, such as the For Glory Mode/Omega Stages being based off of a meme, and mechanics such as Rage that affects way too many factor when playing.

Is there anything you guys want them to add to help support the competitive scene?
Along the lines of an Omega form, we need a stage hazard toggle so that stages that have platforms can be used without having to worry about big scary yellow men and purple space dragons messing up the place.
 

New_Dumal

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Honestly a whole bunch of characters could do with the Pit treatment. Most of his moves stayed the same, they just updated three of his specials and boom, way better. Peach could do with a new side special and down special to be honest. And a whole bunch of characters.
I understand what you wanted to say but I mained Pit in Brawl and the way he plays on Smash 4 is very different (and boring imo).

Guardian Orbitars is a very worse version of his old DownB.
I think Wings of Icarus would need a change or would be a even worse recovery than his new one, but it was great on Brawl with a lot of obscure ATs.
His side B was trash and now is trash.
And they killed his arrow game with that stupid tweek on his neutral B, plus the change on the ledge mechanics.

I hope no one ever gets the "Pit treatment".
 

N3ON

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I agree.

I'm just saying Elma ticks ALL the boxes.
Not timing.

He needs to add female villains, like CROOKED HILLARY. :mad:
He needs to Make Smash Great Again. :teeth:

Y'know, back before the purity of the roster was tainted by all these foreign characters immigrating to this first-party world from the third one they came from. :p
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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Sakurai doesn't seem to add characters because they are female or because they are villains; I doubt he thinks along these terms either.
He did say he was quite happy to add Zero Suit Samus since Smash Bros. had few female characters, but it sounds more like a nice bonus to him, rather than a deciding factor.
 

N3ON

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He did say he was quite happy to add Zero Suit Samus since Smash Bros. had few female characters, but it sounds more like a nice bonus to him, rather than a deciding factor.
I would agree. I mean he may have been happy to, but, unless I'm forgetting someone, she was the only new female that game added, and she wasn't even easily accessible unless you knew the ZSS trick. If that kind of representation was a deciding factor, seems likely the outcome there would've been a bit different.
 
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