Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bradli Wartooth]

I want there to be a game mode in which the player has three stocks, but for each stock lost they change to a different character on their team, much like Dragon Ball Fighter Z. Just a thought. It would be a game mode, like time or stock.

Edit: Anybody think Chibi-Robo is a possible character?

"Possible", yes. Likely, however, not so much. The only way I see Cheebs being playable is by the sole will of daddy Sakurai, because Nintendo slowly killed that franchise by making the quality tank from one game to the next. Zip Lash was, if the series producer's word was accurate, the last nail in the coffin for our small, shiny hero.

 

[ErenJager]

That's 3rd person

Whelp, I'm off to go exile myself.

 

[Opossum]

"Possible", yes. Likely, however, not so much. The only way I see Cheebs being playable is by the sole will of daddy Sakurai, because Nintendo slowly killed that franchise by making the quality tank from one game to the next. Zip Lash was, if the series producer's word was accurate, the last nail in the coffin for our small, shiny hero.

Speaking of which, somewhat controversial opinion time. Had Photo Finder been released on phones and tablets instead of the 3DS, it would've been much better. The 3DS's camera was hot garbage, which severely impacted a game BUILT around camera usage.

Chibi would be neat in Smash though.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'll never understand why they make Mewtwo as light as they do. I can understand him being light, but he's lighter than Mr. Game and Watch ffs. I can't imagine putting him at 80 would affect the balance that much.

Personally I think that only Jigglypuff, Mr. Game & Watch, and Pichu are permitted to be lighter than Kirby. Everyone else has to be heavier than Kirby, which especially includes Rosalina and Mewtwo.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Finally finished my prediction roster. It's a little small though, and the roster being decided in 2016-2017 might hurt it a little.

Spoiler: Newcomer Explanations

Don't feel the need to explain K. Rool, or BWD. Or Takamaru. Or Rex. Or Spring Man, really.

Ashley is popular, and is set to be in WarioWare Gold.

Kamek makes important appearances in both Yoshi and Super Mario games.

Tropical Freeze port makes Dixie Kong relevant. She was already going to be in Brawl, and she would help double the number of characters DK has now.

Decidueye really isn't popular in Japan. Don't think Nihilego is any more popular, but it is important to Alola's plot, even being connected to one of the characters, and it would represent the new group of Pokemon. That said, I could easily see it replaced with Mimikyu.

Villager opened the door for more Animal Crossing characters, even though it isn't a fighting series. Isabelle is supposedly preparing to be one of Nintendo's more important characters. She's been consistently important since her debut.

Savvy Stylist would be the game's ; I remember a bunch of people saying it'd be Badge Bunny, which makes me think it'd be someone else for an actual surprise. Her series actually received its fourth game in November 2017.

Dillon is already getting his third game, meaning his series is already a mainstay.

Chorus Kids were apparently going to be added to Sm4sh. If that's true, that makes them a lot likelier for the Switch, especially thanks to Megamix.

Crash and Rayman are gaming icons. The former also had his games ported to the Switch.

Spoiler: Other Explanations

I don't think 's going to be cut twice.

No Mario or LoZ character seems fitting enough to Sakurai's standards right now.

and will probably be re-merged to give them that defining, unique 2-in-1 factor again.

came back because he was popular, so why wouldn't ?

Unless the next FE has a very interesting protagonist (and Sakurai knew who it was), I can see FE staying at those four characters.

Square Enix is a stricter company, so could be cut like .

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Speaking of which, somewhat controversial opinion time. Had Photo Finder been released on phones and tablets instead of the 3DS, it would've been much better. The 3DS's camera was hot garbage, which severely impacted a game BUILT around camera usage.

Chibi would be neat in Smash though.

And how many people want to pull out their 3DS to take a picture? That's the only Chibi Robo game I didn't even buy. I played every other one to completion, even Zip Lash. Photo Finder was a mediocre idea with horrendous implementation. It makes me so sad, it's very clear Nintendo did not use Chibi Robo to his potential. I would be ecstatic if he made the roster though. Maybe that could draw enough attention to him to warrant another adventure game, because those are the types of games Chibi belongs in, which is why the first one was the best one.

 

[Rockaphin]

We could get the guy from DOOM to represent the first-person shooter niche.

What about the infamous "Call of Duty Soldier"

Call of Duty has sold millions of copies and has been on Nintendo consoles before.

So uh....

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Finally finished my prediction roster. It's a little small though, and the roster being decided in 2016-2017 might hurt it a little.
View attachment 139031

Spoiler: Newcomer Explanations

Don't feel the need to explain K. Rool, or BWD. Or Takamaru. Or Rex. Or Spring Man, really.

Ashley is popular, and is set to be in WarioWare Gold.

Kamek makes important appearances in both Yoshi and Super Mario games.

Tropical Freeze port makes Dixie Kong relevant. She was already going to be in Brawl, and she would help double the number of characters DK has now.

Decidueye really isn't popular in Japan. Don't think Nihilego is any more popular, but it is important to Alola's plot, even being connected to one of the characters, and it would represent the new group of Pokemon. That said, I could easily see it replaced with Mimikyu.

Villager opened the door for more Animal Crossing characters, even though it isn't a fighting series. Isabelle is supposedly preparing to be one of Nintendo's more important characters. She's been consistently important since her debut.

Savvy Stylist would be the game's ; I remember a bunch of people saying it'd be Badge Bunny, which makes me think it'd be someone else for an actual surprise. Her series actually received its fourth game in November 2017.

Dillon is already getting his third game, meaning his series is already a mainstay.

Chorus Kids were apparently going to be added to Sm4sh. If that's true, that makes them a lot likelier for the Switch, especially thanks to Megamix.

Crash and Rayman are gaming icons. The former also had his games ported to the Switch.

Spoiler: Other Explanations

I don't think 's going to be cut twice.

No Mario or LoZ character seems fitting enough to Sakurai's standards right now.

and will probably be re-merged to give them that defining, unique 2-in-1 factor again.

came back because he was popular, so why wouldn't ?

Unless the next FE has a very interesting protagonist (and Sakurai knew who it was), I can see FE staying at those four characters.

Square Enix is a stricter company, so could be cut like .

I do not see transforming characters being remerged, with the sole exception of Pokemon Trainer IF it comes back, which I doubt. The reason Pokemon Trainer would keep it is because switching is a major part of Pokemon, not because I like it. Removing transformations on Samus/Zelda really opened up the opportunity for Sheik and ZSS to develop their own identities, and I think that Sakurai would see remerging them as a disservice to fans of the characters. We had a discussion here many pages ago where some of us made the comment that most of the time, people played Sheik only or ZSS only, even though they were merged with Zelda and Samus. The small number of people who would be happy about the remerge would probably be outweighed by the number of people who would be upset about the remerge.

EDIT: I just thought of it this way from a casual standpoint: What if I really like using Final Smashes, and I really like playing Samus. But I hate using ZSS. Using a Smash Ball will force me to be ZSS, though. Do I use the Final Smash and play ZSS anyway, or do I not get the Final Smash and let someone else get it? If, for whatever reason, Samus and ZSS were remerged, I feel they should definitely find a different way to change, because being forced to handicap yourself kind of blows.

 

[Radical Bones]

The thing about 'surprise' characters are that essentially no one predicted it, and if someone did mention it they were shot down.

That's why Savvy Stylist won't be a WTF character - so many people have predicted it.

That being said, now that we analyse literally every game, I'd say the WTF character will be less so.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I wish there was a roster maker for Mac. I get really disappointed when I see the rosters and realize I can’t make them

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'm of the idea that Sakurai won't force a "wtf" character to happen. If he finds something he likes, then it's going to be playable. But I don't think a new one is necessarily a given.

 

[IronTed]

What was Brawl's WTF character? R.O.B.?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

What was Brawl's WTF character? R.O.B.?

Yeah, the wtf's in order were G&W, ROB, WFT.

Unless some of you also count Duck Hunt as the wtf character.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I do not see transforming characters being remerged, with the sole exception of Pokemon Trainer IF it comes back, which I doubt. The reason Pokemon Trainer would keep it is because switching is a major part of Pokemon, not because I like it. Removing transformations on Samus/Zelda really opened up the opportunity for Sheik and ZSS to develop their own identities, and I think that Sakurai would see remerging them as a disservice to fans of the characters. We had a discussion here many pages ago where some of us made the comment that most of the time, people played Sheik only or ZSS only, even though they were merged with Zelda and Samus. The small number of people who would be happy about the remerge would probably be outweighed by the number of people who would be upset about the remerge.

EDIT: I just thought of it this way from a casual standpoint: What if I really like using Final Smashes, and I really like playing Samus. But I hate using ZSS. Using a Smash Ball will force me to be ZSS, though. Do I use the Final Smash and play ZSS anyway, or do I not get the Final Smash and let someone else get it? If, for whatever reason, Samus and ZSS were remerged, I feel they should definitely find a different way to change, because being forced to handicap yourself kind of blows.

I don't feel like fan response will always be the deciding factor for things like this. Zelda/Sheik could've been split in Brawl, but they were kept as one, and they and were going to be one in Sm4sh as well, only stopped due to an obstacle which is now out of the way.

Also, the whole deal was that they were supposed to cover each other's flaws. In fact, this gave them identity distinguishing them from most of the rest of the roster, as two parts of the same whole.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yeah, the wtf's in order were G&W, ROB, WFT.

Unless some of you also count Duck Hunt as the wtf character.

I always thought Duck Hunt was the retro character.

 

[Lyndis_]

We could get the guy from DOOM to represent the first-person shooter niche.

I firmly believe if anyone were to cover the FPS genre it'd have to be Doomguy.

There's really no better option, his merits, success and appearances are obvious. It also definitely helps his classic appearance and weapons are just cartoony enough to not feel out of place at all in the world of Smash.

I always thought Duck Hunt was the retro character.

Yep. Retro:
Ice Climbers > Pit > Duck Hunt

Curveball:
G&W > R.O.B > Wii Fit Trainer

 

[mario123007]

God, I sure hope not. Xenoblade X's characters were generic and forgettable as hell.

Maybe just maybe they can go how Fire Emblem does and let Cross in Smash Bros, you know.. . Your avatar in Xenoblade Chronicles X.

But yeah, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a more better rep.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

are both surprise and retro characters.

 

[Lyndis_]

They are definitely retro, yeah, but not really traditional characters like the Ice Climbers or Pit were.

Being that G&W is an amalgamation of various G&W toys made into a single entity and R.O.B. is a toy accessory rather than a direct video game character. As far as Wii Fit Trainer goes I have no excuse, I believe it's just because they're a weird choice and take more of an assist role than really being characterized.

The distinction is kinda blurry so i'd assume these categories are just cooincidence and probably don't even actually exist when they're developing the game, lol.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I don't feel like fan response will always be the deciding factor for things like this. Zelda/Sheik could've been split in Brawl, but they were kept as one, and they and were going to be one in Sm4sh as well, only stopped due to an obstacle which is now out of the way.

Also, the whole deal was that they were supposed to cover each other's flaws. In fact, this gave them identity distinguishing them from most of the rest of the roster, as two parts of the same whole.

Cover each other's flaws?

So Zelda is complete trash, use down b to play a better character. In Brawl, use down b to play an equally bad character.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

The winner of the poll was just what I've expected, the lovely Celica. Shame her brother didn't fare as well, but at least Alm was proven superior to Tobin and Leon.

Next up is the second and last Echoes poll, with some units from Celica's path and a certain villain. Your picks are Berkut, Mae, Gray, and Saber.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good luck.

Really late reply but I was just reading through this thread and I noticed this. Celica’s brother is a person named Conrad, not anyone else listed in the poll.

Also smash related, I do hope the likely fe character we get is unique and uses either lance, axe, or a dragonstone/beaststone

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Really late reply but I was just reading through this thread and I noticed this. Celica’s brother is a person named Conrad, not anyone else listed in the poll.

Also smash related, I do hope the likely fe character we get is unique and uses either lance, axe, or a dragonstone/beaststone

Yeah, I sort of left Conrad out. It was kind of a bad move on my part.

Same, I would love a unique Fire Emblem character.

 

[Luminario]

Cover each other's flaws?

So Zelda is complete trash, use down b to play a better character. In Brawl, use down b to play an equally bad character.

Key word there is supposed to. Sheik was meant to be the damaging speedy counterpart to the everything's-a-kill-move defensive Zelda, but something, or many things, got lost there during balancing.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, the wtf's in order were G&W, ROB, WFT.

Unless some of you also count Duck Hunt as the wtf character.

People need to understand that what they refer to as "wtf characters" are not what are considered the "surprise character".

Look at the following:



What do these three have in common?

-Secret unlockable characters.
-Characters virtually no one would have seen coming.
-Icons of Nintendo's past that are significant to Nintendo's history.

These are the "surprise characters" for Melee, Brawl, and Wii U/3DS, respectively. Smash 64 doesn't really have one of these since none of the four unlockables were really "secret" due to appearing in silhouette in the beginning (and Luigi showing up in the How to Play and in 1P Mode even before being unlocked) or were significant historical icons other than Luigi.

Wii Fit Trainer is not a valid example of this.
She may have been left-field, but she was one of the very first new characters shown off and isn't a historic icon. Rather, she is from the modern era.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I don't feel like fan response will always be the deciding factor for things like this. Zelda/Sheik could've been split in Brawl, but they were kept as one, and they and were going to be one in Sm4sh as well, only stopped due to an obstacle which is now out of the way.

Also, the whole deal was that they were supposed to cover each other's flaws. In fact, this gave them identity distinguishing them from most of the rest of the roster, as two parts of the same whole.

My comment was not that they were separated because of fan issues, but now that they have been separated and developed their own identities, why would they take the step back? Aside from other issues I mentioned in my previous post, such as a forced handicap with Samus/ZSS in casual play, and people playing Zelda & Sheik to play Zelda OR Sheik, not both.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 139045

People need to understand that what they refer to as "wtf characters" are not what are considered the "surprise character".

Look at the following:



What do these three have in common?

-Secret unlockable characters.
-Characters virtually no one would have seen coming.
-Icons of Nintendo's past that are significant to Nintendo's history.

These are the "surprise characters" for Melee, Brawl, and Wii U/3DS, respectively. Smash 64 doesn't really have one of these since none of the four unlockables were really "secret" due to appearing in silhouette in the beginning (and Luigi showing up in the How to Play and in 1P Mode even before being unlocked) or were significant historical icons other than Luigi.

Wii Fit Trainer is not a valid example of this.
She may have been left-field, but she was one of the very first new characters shown off and isn't a historic icon. Rather, she is from the modern era.

I think those three can be classified as the "Surprise Retro" characters. I think we can expect only one in Smash in Switch, but what one? It could be Excite Biker, considering he was in Smash Brothers Brawl as an Assist Trophy. Well multiple ones.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Photo Finder is the worst game I've ever played and one of the few games I actually hate.

It's a dumpster fire.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I still say a Pokemon cut for this game should be to trim down on the Gen 1 representation if anything.

The most iconic generation that has continued to reexert itself over time?

I mean, Pokemon don't represent their generation, they represent themselves. Pokemon in gen one are in every other game too, and the ones included, short of JIgglypuff, have continually proven to be integral to story elements.

Disliking gen 1 because they are from the original game is not something Sakurai seems going to do- we got three gen 1 born characters in Brawl! Other than having a new character in each time, the generation seems mostly irrelevant to Sakurai.

 

[Deleted member]

Photo Finder is the worst game I've ever played and one of the few games I actually hate.

It's a dumpster fire.

Mm hmm, I heard it nearly killed Chibi Robo as a whole.... Dang a game that would do that means it is a dumpster fire indeed.

Speaking of Transformations, I do not like transformations. I know it does not make sense, but I agree with the developers that Sheik and Zelda or ZSS and Samus feel much better separated. I want no transformations in Smash for Switch.

 

[Senselessbreak]

The most iconic generation that has continued to reexert itself over time?

I mean, Pokemon don't represent their generation, they represent themselves. Pokemon in gen one are in every other game too, and the ones included, short of JIgglypuff, have continually proven to be integral to story elements.

Disliking gen 1 because they are from the original game is not something Sakurai seems going to do- we got three gen 1 born characters in Brawl! Other than having a new character in each time, the generation seems mostly irrelevant to Sakurai.

Now that I think about it, I think my mind is changed about Decidueye. Initially I was sure he'd get in as a gen 7 rep, but now I'm leaning more on a gen 8 rep.

Smash 64 added gen 1, the newest gen at the time.
Melee added gen 2 the newest gen.
Brawl added gen 4 the newest gen while skipping 3.
4 added gen 6 while skipping 5
I imagine Switch will add gen 8 while skipping 7. Simultaneous development is not an issue here.

The only exception has been gen 1 which can get new reps. Only the newest gen at the time will get a new rep added.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Now that I think about it, I think my mind is changed about Decidueye. Initially I was sure he'd get in as a gen 7 rep, but now I'm leaning more on a gen 8 rep.

Smash 64 added gen 1, the newest gen at the time.
Melee added gen 2 the newest gen.
Brawl added gen 4 the newest gen while skipping 3.
4 added gen 6 while skipping 5
I imagine Switch will add gen 8 while skipping 7. Simultaneous development is not an issue here.

The only exception has been gen 1 which can get new reps. Only the newest gen at the time will get a new rep added.

We are nearly guaranteed to get a current character with Smash, that's just about been said directly, as Pokemon is one of the few series to which Sakurai has explicitly commented upon.

But similarly, he does actually consider a lot more than from where they came.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

As far as adding "promotional characters" goes (Gen 8 Pokemon, FE16 character), I think there will be significantly less of a rush to put them in Smash Switch. DLC is a thing, and the characters can possibly be added closer to the release of those games as DLC. In past Smash games, DLC was not an option (excluding Wii U, and check it out, we got Corrin) so they had to think way ahead of time. That's not the case anymore. Obviously there's still some "thinking ahead of time" for DLC characters because it takes a long time to develop a new character, but that doesn't mean they have to be ready for the base game.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Maybe just maybe they can go how Fire Emblem does and let Cross in Smash Bros, you know.. . Your avatar in Xenoblade Chronicles X.

But yeah, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a more better rep.

I'd rather have Elma than Cross.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As far as adding "promotional characters" goes (Gen 8 Pokemon, FE16 character), I think there will be significantly less of a rush to put them in Smash Switch. DLC is a thing, and the characters can possibly be added closer to the release of those games as DLC. In past Smash games, DLC was not an option (excluding Wii U, and check it out, we got Corrin) so they had to think way ahead of time. That's not the case anymore. Obviously there's still some "thinking ahead of time" for DLC characters because it takes a long time to develop a new character, but that doesn't mean they have to be ready for the base game.

I expect to see free DLC this time- characters that are no longer hidden, but are dropped as DLC instead, to keep them a surprise.
Sakurai loves surprises in general... which is why the idea of a single surprise character is funny to me.
He has also gone on record to state he knows that the internet ruins surprises... so obviously, there are no actual "surprise" characters.

 

[PF9]

I think Smash Swtich would be a good game for Nintendo to start doing soft drink partnerships - to tie in with the game's release, special editions of Fanta and Mello Yello should be released. I think Nintendo partnering with the Coca-Cola Company (which by the way is an official partner of March Madness - -is anybody watching that?) would be the perfect counter move to Mountain Dew's partnership with Xbox.

 

[Senselessbreak]

As far as adding "promotional characters" goes (Gen 8 Pokemon, FE16 character), I think there will be significantly less of a rush to put them in Smash Switch. DLC is a thing, and the characters can possibly be added closer to the release of those games as DLC. In past Smash games, DLC was not an option (excluding Wii U, and check it out, we got Corrin) so they had to think way ahead of time. That's not the case anymore. Obviously there's still some "thinking ahead of time" for DLC characters because it takes a long time to develop a new character, but that doesn't mean they have to be ready for the base game.

We still don't know if Smash 5 is going to reuse character assets from 4. If they do, I imagine the dev time of characters will be significantly cut down thus allowing them to add Reps from newly released games in a much more streamlined manner. Fire Emblem has twice done this, and to an extend Greninja was added as a promotion character. So Sakurai is completely okay with this practice.

Since Smash 4, there haven't been any new Fire Emblem characters except for the FEH and FEW OC characters which don't count as main entries. Cellica or Alm are possible additions but I don't see Sakurai adding them since they are remakes. I find it extremely unlikely that we aren't getting a new FE character from launch, but there aren't many relevant choices, thus FE16 is the likely choice here.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

We still don't know if Smash 5 is going to reuse character assets from 4. If they do, I imagine the dev time of characters will be significantly cut down thus allowing them to add Reps from newly released games in a much more streamlined manner. Fire Emblem has twice done this, and to an extend Greninja was added as a promotion character. So Sakurai is completely okay with this practice.

Since Smash 4, there haven't been any new Fire Emblem characters except for the FEH and FEW OC characters which don't as main entries. Cellica or Alm are possible additions but I don't see Sakurai adding them since they are remakes. I find it extremely unlikely that we aren't getting a new FE character from launch, but there aren't many relevant choices, thus FE16 is the likely choice here.

I very clearly stated that past Smash games didn't have to option for DLC which could very likely have to do with why the characters were forced in. And into Smash 4's development, Sakurai had stated that he had no plans for DLC. That decision came very late into development. With Smash Switch, DLC is basically a given since Smash 4 had DLC, and Sakurai is surely aware of that. Things could be very different this time around.

 

[FunAtParties]

I'd rather have Elma than Cross.

I'd rather have Elma than anyone else Xenoblade has to offer rn.

 

[Deleted member]

I think those three can be classified as the "Surprise Retro" characters. I think we can expect only one in Smash in Switch, but what one? It could be Excite Biker, considering he was in Smash Brothers Brawl as an Assist Trophy. Well multiple ones.

Officially, they are simply "surprise characters". It's just coincidence that all of them happen to fall under a "retro" umbrella.

Granted, what we refer to as "clones" are officially called "model swap" characters, so I suppose using the official term isn't completely necessary.


As for Excitebiker, he wouldn't really qualify due to the very fact Excitebikers were an Assist back in Brawl as well as the Excitebiker being publically stated to have momentarily considered (and denied) as a newcomer of NES/Famicom origin in Melee (in the process which lead to the Ice Climbers being chosen).

 

[Crap-Zapper]

They are definitely retro, yeah, but not really traditional characters like the Ice Climbers or Pit were.

Being that G&W is an amalgamation of various G&W toys made into a single entity and R.O.B. is a toy accessory rather than a direct video game character. As far as Wii Fit Trainer goes I have no excuse, I believe it's just because they're a weird choice and take more of an assist role than really being characterized.

The distinction is kinda blurry so i'd assume these categories are just cooincidence and probably don't even actually exist when they're developing the game, lol.

Wii Fit had an excercise device, tool, toy!

Hot damn, you might have cracked a code here, Lyndis.