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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Z25

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Blog update is Nikki.
Nikki draws.

A Mural is a drawing.

The leak is a mural

LEAK CONFIRMED BOYS!!!!!!!!!
:p

Look, I'm all for respecting tragic events, but I feel like the Isaac argument is grounded in some reality. There's a precedent for Nintendo moving around or completely not airing episodes of the Pokemon anime in response to tragic events such as earthquakes.
I still wish we got the Team Rocket vs Team Plasma episodes. But I agree.

It isn't a stretch to say Isabelle could have been in another direct with the AC switch announcement also being then imo. They could have just switched it around.
Yes, it appears the background can in fact change. Let's see those insiders NOW!
They can't act like its confirmed because the ninjas got them.
Is there any reliable evidence suggesting the leak might be fake?
Not really. If anything more and more is added up to prove its real.
 

xAquaCrystal

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I’m curious since some are talking about sheik. Anyone thoughts on Zelda in ultimate being a good fighter on the tier list? From what I heard Zelda had always been a low tier character I hope ultimate change this since I seen some of her changes and some people using her decently in ultimate.
 

Impa4Smash

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Huge Mario Tennis fan here and I completely agree. Camelot either doesn't put effort or isn't receiving enough funding for their games. Aces had a baffling lack of content and characters.
Mario Power Tennis was such a dope game. Shame pretty much every Mario Tennis game after that has been bare bones
 
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Idon

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I’m curious since some are talking about sheik. Anyone thoughts on Zelda in ultimate being a good fighter on the tier list? From what I heard Zelda had always been a low tier character I hope ultimate change this since I seen some of her changes and some people using her decently in ultimate.
I think the buffs are great for her and would definitely bump her up on the tier list compared to her low tier bretheren.

Whether it's enough to completely dip her in a decent position is hard to say as it looks like she'll still have at least some of her flaws of her previous games, but, with her new down B change, I think her more potent neutral and pressure could make up for said flaws.
 
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xAquaCrystal

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Assuming the leak is true, what characters does everyone think we'll get for DLC?

I'm thinking Incineroar, Sora, Dixie Kong, Monster Hunter, Rayman, Lloyd Irving, Bandanna Dee, Gen 8 Pokemon, and Fire Emblem Three Houses Rep

Oh, and maybe that Granblue character
My dlc list of characters:
Incineroar (if he is not in base roster)
Tails
Elma
Sora
Dixie
Bandana dee
Skull kid
Dante from devil may cry (ok this one is wishful thinking but hey you never know >.>)
I feel like could be missing someone but yeah this is my list.
 

KMDP

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I’m curious since some are talking about sheik. Anyone thoughts on Zelda in ultimate being a good fighter on the tier list? From what I heard Zelda had always been a low tier character I hope ultimate change this since I seen some of her changes and some people using her decently in ultimate.
Zelda (and Ganondorf) have consistently been low/bottom tier in Smash since their creation.

It's too early to tell how Zelda will fare in this game, however.
---
Anyway, I've gotta jet; it's 4 AM over here, and hype can only keep you awake for so long.
Have some music to sum up my feelings right now.

'night, y'all!
 

JustCallMeJon

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So here's my personal take on this whole situation.

I think the Growth Psynergy item does hint towards Isaac being in Smash. Obviously it's not a true confirmation since franchises have had items represented in Smash without having characters represented before, (notably so with the Pitfall in Brawl, back before Villager was playable,) but the question that springs to my mind is: why did they wait this long to reveal it Showing it off would have taken ~10 seconds in the last Direct, so it hardly would have made a difference time wise. Also, given the circumstances in which it was revealed today, it's entirely possible that they didn't intend for it to get revealed yet at all. This level of secrecy suggests to me that something much bigger is probably bundled with that item, and the logical conclusion is that Isaac is in the game.

However, while this is certainly a point in the leak's favor, it's far from a confirmation that the leak is legitimate. After all, Isaac could be in the game and the leak could be fake at the same time, and that's what I personally believe at the moment. I can't overlook the inconsistencies between the leaked empty banner and the E3 version; they just don't add up.



Here's the comparison between the two.



And here's a comparison between the E3 empty banner and the current filled banner for reference. (Excuse the fact that the E3 banner is ever so slightly zoomed in.)

The banner doesn't change at all from the E3 version to the current version from what we can observe. While it's entirely possible that the background is changing behind the characters, that would be quite bizarre since the background is likely one layer and the characters on top of it are likely just resized. However, the banner changes quite drastically in the leak in the spots that are normally obscured by characters, and despite supposedly being the final version of the banner, the leaked version notably and randomly gets less detailed. I can't fathom a scenario where someone thought it would be best to remove an entire island from the final version of the banner even though it remains unseeable behind the characters. The only logical explanation for this as far as I'm aware is that someone edited these characters out manually and then redrew the background in the spots where the characters were edited out. If you accept this, you accept the leak is fake.

With that out of the way, I think the remaining newcomers would be Isaac/Incineroar as true newcomers, (since Incineroar is just as likely as it was before if the Grinch leak is fake,) and Ken/Shadow as echoes. Even if Grinch leak is fake, if we assume Isaac is in, then it's highly likely that box theory is dead, and if so, Shadow starts to make a lot of sense again, at least to me. Finally, I think the Square Enix character is still going to be the first DLC, whether it be Sora or Geno, or even someone else. (Realistically though, I think it's one of the former two.)
Or...

Or maybe the leak image is an early version of battlefield. I know that he left this place around 2016 in which Ultimate was still developing. Since he is claimed to not shown this leak, it is possible that someone may steal the early version of the art. Remember that the whole roster must of been finalized around 2015-2016.

This gives a good reason why battlefield has shifted drastically from the current build because it might be the early version.

That is my prediction though, feel free to criticize it.
 
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Kotor

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i don’t even know what happened to him

thought his channel got shut down and that’s it
Well the man snapped. From what I found, it was over him saying the n-word on Twitter.

He had deleted all his videos from his youtube. Started posting porn, and got his account banned.
 

Noipoi

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Zelda (and Ganondorf) have consistently been low/bottom tier in Smash since their creation.

It's too early to tell how Zelda will fare in this game, however.
---
Anyway, I've gotta jet; it's 4 AM over here, and hype can only keep you awake for so long.
Have some music to sum up my feelings right now.

'night, y'all!
G'night.
Sleep Tight.
Don't let the Pinsir split you in half.
 

vaanrose

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View attachment 172153

anyone talked about this yet? I took a nap cause this hasnt been a time for much sleep hahaha
This is exactly what I was just talking about. This is the fifth time I've had to explain this very image.

No offense meant to you here, but, like, this image is demonstrably false but is being continually spread. The Wendy's Ad is not an updated banner. In fact, it's an outdated banner. It's the E3 banner, and the section that's been highlighted by this image is assuming, wrongfully, that Megaman has never moved between the three banners. He is in an entirely different place in all three images and, as such, the background behind him is different. Look at the floor and you'll see his feet are planted in different places.
 

CosmicQuark

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So, I watched Artsy Omni's LeakBusters, and given his approach was far more comparative than a lot of the examples I've seen online, I do think there's something to the more macro-changes that are made (as I said previously, I don't think micro-changes matter that much given it's being used for a different purpose in the leak). He made a lot of compelling arguments, though as he said it's nitpicky, and it's very difficult to tell from such a blurry photo. Does knock it down a peg, unless those on Team Real can show me instances where something lined up that was obscured by the characters (that is, if the "faker" didn't know about that empty Battlefield from E3, they wouldn't have known to add those particular details in--I don't think that's been demonstrated). Still, how elaborate this leak is, the details on the characters, and most of everything else still points towards real, to me, but still, slightly more cautious now.
 

Idon

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My dlc list of characters:
Incineroar (if he is not in base roster)
Tails
Elma
Sora
Dixie
Bandana dee
Skull kid
Dante from devil may cry (ok this one is wishful thinking but hey you never know >.>)
I feel like could be missing someone but yeah this is my list.
Dante to show Bayonetta who the OG king of style is.
 

Diem

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Given that the Smash team seems aware of the roster's competitive performance, evident by some of the late patches for Smash 4 (buffing Samus and Zelda, nerfing ZSS, Sheik, etc.), I think the tier list for Ultimate will be very interesting. Many characters will still have similar strengths and weaknesses, but I feel by the end of the game's post-launch support, things will be pretty balanced.

Especially since Nintendo's taking this game's competitive scene very seriously. I think they dropped Smash 4's competitive scene pretty quickly because they recognized the failure of the Wii U and the game to capture audiences, knew the Switch and Ultimate were coming, and doubled down on this system and game to make their push.

They made the right decision.
 

Polar Bair

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I would like to believe Ultimate will be different from past Smash titles, as far as making the worst characters not feel so far behind others that they're not playing the game. But considering how out of touch Sakurai always was, even with him throwing competitive players a bone with things like a hazard toggle and directional airdodges, I don't see things being too different. He thought Samus was the strongest character at the Smash 4 Invitational but none of the invited players even picked her. I'm still going to give every character the benefit of the doubt here and see what people can do in the first few months. Right now I think Little Mac, for example, got a better deal than Zelda with this game.
 
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Will

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I would like to believe Ultimate will be different from past Smash titles, as far as making the worst characters not feel so far behind others that they're not playing the game. But considering how out of touch Sakurai always was, even with him throwing competitive players a bone with things like a hazard toggle and directional airdodges, I don't see things being too different. He thought Samus was the strongest character at the Smash 4 Invitational but none of the invited players even picked her. I'm still going to give every character the benefit of the doubt here and see what people can do in the first few months. Right now I think Little Mac, for example, got a better deal than Zelda with this game.
I feel like it'll generally be the same, except maybe Bayonetta who won't be the top of top tier anymore. I mean, compliment Ganon's frame buffs all you want, everyone got frame buffs.
 

Trisepta

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This is exactly what I was just talking about. This is the fifth time I've had to explain this very image.

No offense meant to you here, but, like, this image is demonstrably false but is being continually spread. The Wendy's Ad is not an updated banner. In fact, it's an outdated banner. It's the E3 banner, and the section that's been highlighted by this image is assuming, wrongfully, that Megaman has never moved between the three banners. He is in an entirely different place in all three images and, as such, the background behind him is different. Look at the floor and you'll see his feet are planted in different places.
This is even worse because I believe that the one from the website (in that post) is edited. I'm not finding that green part in any of the banners.
 
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GaroMaster

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So, regarding the possibility about the healing field getting a redesign, is there precedent for an item to get a redesign before the release of the game?
The only instance that I can think of this happening is the Flying Man changing from 3D to 2D and even then, that was a stage hazard.
 

vaanrose

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This is even worse because I believe that the one from the website is edited. I'm not finding that green part in any of the banners.
Last time I saw this image it wasn't highlighted in green. It was to point out there's a crystal behind Mega Man that "disappears," when in reality, Mega Man shifts to the side and covers up the crystal. I think the green is just meant to highlight this crystal.
 

PhilosophicAnimal

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Yeah, pretty sure that sprout is Growth Psynergy. The sprout, while fairly generic in design, matches the GS design perfectly. Beyond that, though, is the bigger point in favor of it being GS...

It's in a bubble.

If it were Mario, it would be coming out of a block. If it were Animal Crossing, it would be in a pot. But here, we have a sprout, just the stem itself, with no seed or anything, floating in a bubble.

It just SCREAMS magic spell. It could be a FF materia, but if so, I'd imagine it'd been officially higlighted by now, since so many other items have and FF is not a secret. It's also possible it's Pikmin related, as Pikmin deals with bubbles a lot...but again, it would likely have been shown off by now in a more prominent way.

I'm near positive this is a GS item. That doesn't prove the banner, nor even Isaac being playable...but why in the name of Mashpotato Samurai would you wait this long to put a Golden Sun item in Smash, if Isaac wasn't along for the ride? Add in that he's on the banner, using Growth, and the coincidences start piling up...

Team Real looking good. Now we wait for the inevitable disprove that puts us back at neutral, lolol.

Incidentally, this item is making me think we may have a Screw Attack situation--it's an item that lets you do another fighter's move, in this case Isaac's. I'm sorta thinking it may be his up B: creating vines to climb like a ladder, with the ability to attack from it. Now THAT'S a unique recovery!
 

T3Z3R1

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Sehnsucht

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One possibility, however likely or not, is that the "Growth Item" is legitimate, meaning Isaac is in the game, but the mural leak is itself a fabrication (so Isaac's presence there is incidental / a lucky guess).

If this has been mentioned before, send me a DM; I'll share my IRL coordinates so you can come over and give me a well-deserved flick in the elbows.
 
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