Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Morbi]

I'm starting to think about Pokemon representation in Smash...

And I think that it will be, at the launch of the game:
-Pikachu
-Lucario
-Mewtwo
-Charizard
-Empoleon
-Decidueye

(And Jigglypuff is always likely, but I do think it is likely that the game will have many veterans as planned, Free, DLC, or a replacement for newcomers that are not hidden but instead get a true reveal with overnight drops into the game).

Then with a wildcard newbie being possibly in, or possibly relegated to extended DLC.
Perhaps as simple as Pichu returning with the old moveset, if Pikachu is drastically changed in this game.
Or perhaps, my beloved Trainer, or a Team Rocket style, or an Eevee, or who knows.

Empoleon and Decidueye would help round out a serious starter being in for each type, from a nice spread of generations across the years. Decidueye is popular and conceived with popularity and attacks in mind. As for Empoleon, it has not only been added into Pokken, but in the Pokemon retcon movie we saw Piplup, an always popular Pokemon from the anime, take place as the singular Water Starter to be represented. Likely remakes of Gen 4 games would further his current resurgence.

I have not been following Pokemon too much, as I was never interesting in Ultra Sun and Moon, it felt more of a rip-off than usual, I suppose. Either way, they revealed this Pokemon Zerazora, or something to that effect. It is basically a Thundercat. I would not be surprised if they considered him.

 

[Pacack]

Are there any potential retro character left that represents anything as important as and?

I'd say those are what I've been referring to as historical characters. A number of ideas have come up for new ones, including:

Diskun
Daitoryo
Parabo and Satebo
Sheriff Jack
Nintendo Mini Kangaroo

 

[mario123007]

That is probably the primary reason I am a fan of Nintendo, they take their music much more seriously than other developers. That can, depending on the game, be half the experience. I am playing through Earthbound right now... And boy, mechanics have come a LONG way; however, I am still thoroughly enjoying myself because of the music.

True, Nintendo music has been very memorable.
That being said, I personally think Xenoblade Chronicles series has the best music by far than any other Nintendo games.
I just love how you have orchestra in overworked theme and then you have rock theme for battle scenes.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Thinking out loud... on that boss character idea...on the idea that the game were rebooted, starting from the beginning...
what if all series did have their big bad as a boss mode character?

Bowser, K Rool, Ridley, Dark Matter, Porky, Metal Face...

They are bigger, stronger, but they only get one life. The hero characters would all have, say, three.

Just a thought. Obviously not what will happen, and easily arguably, shouldnt be.

 

[ErenJager]

I'm starting to think about Pokemon representation in Smash...

And I think that it will be, at the launch of the game:
-Pikachu
-Lucario
-Mewtwo
-Charizard
-Empoleon
-Decidueye

(And Jigglypuff is always likely, but I do think it is likely that the game will have many veterans as planned, Free, DLC, or a replacement for newcomers that are not hidden but instead get a true reveal with overnight drops into the game).

Then with a wildcard newbie being possibly in, or possibly relegated to extended DLC.
Perhaps as simple as Pichu returning with the old moveset, if Pikachu is drastically changed in this game.
Or perhaps, my beloved Trainer, or a Team Rocket style, or an Eevee, or who knows.

Empoleon and Decidueye would help round out a serious starter being in for each type, from a nice spread of generations across the years. Decidueye is popular and conceived with popularity and attacks in mind. As for Empoleon, it has not only been added into Pokken, but in the Pokemon retcon movie we saw Piplup, an always popular Pokemon from the anime, take place as the singular Water Starter to be represented. Likely remakes of Gen 4 games would further his current resurgence.

I hope Sakurai plasma fists me with a Zeraora.
First playable mythical.
I don't know, he looks like he was designed for Smash.
They went for that popular Lucario type look, and made him kinda edgy.

I need Shadow Lugia as a pokeball summon.

I guess I gotta give a shout out to Hoopa Unbound... portals fam... portals... we need a portal character in smash.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why did you cut Greninja and add Empoleon?

If you're going to use the movie as an argument, it'd apply to Piplup, not Emploleon.

I listed a few different reasons as to why Empoleon has garnered more spotlight.

We get Pokemon cuts every game, why would we not in this game? We have a precedence for it happening in every game where cuts have happened. Additionally, there is a seeming pattern of last in, first out, with Pokemon.
It is by no means a rule, but the series has been trimmed each time.

Additionally, there is a lot of reason to try to choose starters from a greater variety of time spans between them. Starter Pokemon are the first ones characters bond with, and in many cases the emotional weight of the game can be felt in the starter Pokemon.
Choosing starter characters from several variant generations means covering that initial emotional current more thoroughly (that is to say, if you choose three starters from three very different time frames, then the widest span of people will connect with those starters from their childhood).

 

[Danpal65]

True, Nintendo music has been very memorable.
That being said, I personally think Xenoblade Chronicles series has the best music by far than any other Nintendo games.
I just love how you have orchestra in overworked theme and then you have rock theme for battle scenes.

The music of Xenoblade is something you could have on in the background playing for hours. Honestly I kinda wish they had done a soundtrack more in line with that for Breath of the Wild over the more atmospheric one that they went for.

I'm starting to think about Pokemon representation in Smash...

And I think that it will be, at the launch of the game:
-Pikachu
-Lucario
-Mewtwo
-Charizard
-Empoleon
-Decidueye

(And Jigglypuff is always likely, but I do think it is likely that the game will have many veterans as planned, Free, DLC, or a replacement for newcomers that are not hidden but instead get a true reveal with overnight drops into the game).

Then with a wildcard newbie being possibly in, or possibly relegated to extended DLC.
Perhaps as simple as Pichu returning with the old moveset, if Pikachu is drastically changed in this game.
Or perhaps, my beloved Trainer, or a Team Rocket style, or an Eevee, or who knows.

Empoleon and Decidueye would help round out a serious starter being in for each type, from a nice spread of generations across the years. Decidueye is popular and conceived with popularity and attacks in mind. As for Empoleon, it has not only been added into Pokken, but in the Pokemon retcon movie we saw Piplup, an always popular Pokemon from the anime, take place as the singular Water Starter to be represented. Likely remakes of Gen 4 games would further his current resurgence.

I could Decidueye being added, but I do not conceive them ever cutting Greninja to introduce Empoleon. Firstly, Greninja is a very popular Pokémon and is till used competitively. Second, it probably has been much too long since the game Empoleon was introduced in for it to be considered as an option. It is a cool fighter, and obviously works well enough in Pokkén, but that does not mean it will translate over to Smash, just like the argument that Greninja is in Smash so therefore should be in Pokkén.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The music of Xenoblade is something you could have on in the background playing for hours. Honestly I kinda wish they had done a soundtrack more in line with that for Breath of the Wild over the more atmospheric one that they went for.



I could Decidueye being added, but I do not conceive them ever cutting Greninja to introduce Empoleon. Firstly, Greninja is a very popular Pokémon and is till used competitively. Second, it probably has been much too long since the game Empoleon was introduced in for it to be considered as an option. It is a cool fighter, and obviously works well enough in Pokkén, but that does not mean it will translate over to Smash, just like the argument that Greninja is in Smash so therefore should be in Pokkén.

Additionally, Squirtle was very popular, particularly in its home game. I dont think that Greninja being popular matters all that much. All Pokemon tend to have popularity on their side- it has been shown to just not be enough. Sakurai prioritizes getting new characters in rather than bringing all the old ones back.

It may seem petty to say, but I don't think Squirtle was cut FOR Greninja. Similarly, I dont think he would be cut FOR Empoleon. I think he would be cut, and that with a remake of gen 4 likely to come soon, and Empoleon being prominent member (of the final evolution) of that starter generation, that Empoleon would be added.

 

[Danpal65]

Additionally, Squirtle was very popular, particularly in its home game. I dont think that Greninja being popular matters all that much. All Pokemon tend to have popularity on their side- it has been shown to just not be enough. Sakurai prioritizes getting new characters in rather than bringing all the old ones back.

In that case, cut Lucario. His popularity has been on the decline and is not as relevant. People were suggesting Zeraora as a newcomer, that'd make a fine substitute.

Personally, I just do not see them making too many, if any, cuts from the current Pokémon roster. It is very solid and, while having maybe a bit too much Gen 1 representation, demonstrates the wide variety of Pokémon.

Nintendo Mini Kangaroo

There is a Nintendo Kangaroo?! Sign me right up for supporting that as a WTF character, and not just because I am an Aussie.

 

[ErenJager]

I'd say those are what I've been referring to as historical characters. A number of ideas have come up for new ones, including:

Diskun
Daitoryo
Parabo and Satebo
Sheriff Jack
Nintendo Mini Kangaroo

Mini Kangaroo and Daitoryo only two characters I hate more then ROB.

 

[mario123007]

Would there be a big backlash if there is no Xenoblade newcomer and Shulk is once again by himself?

Only in Nintendo community I guess. ..

Etika have a theory:

What do you think about this?

They were good very good.

And then you have this video saying we don't know if Smash Bros Switch is just a port or a new game. You have an annoying skeleton Maxiell spewing out stamrawman arguments....
have

The music of Xenoblade is something you could have on in the background playing for hours. Honestly I kinda wish they had done a soundtrack more in line with that for Breath of the Wild over the more atmospheric one that they went for.

And people who say that Xenoblade Chronicles X soundtrack sucks.... I partially disagree, and I also would tell them to hear the composer Hiroyuki Sawano's other soundtracks from other animes Japanese drama, and collaboration albums.. They can never say Hiroyuki Sawano's soundtrack sucks.

And here's my another unpopular opinion, I prefer to listen to Hiroyuki Sawano's soundtracks (Not just Xenoblade X's) way more than Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 soundtrack.

 

[R0Y]

I'm hoping for Elma and Pyra for Xenoblade Chronicles X and 2 character picks, respectively.

This is a long shot but Star Fox Adventures is one of my most nostalgic Nintendo games so I want to see Krystal in and fighting with her staff, along with a Dinosaur Planet stage.

I really need to get a Switch...

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Historcally, all of the Pokemon characters that have been cut have had a reason to:

She was a clone of Pikachu, which inherently put her lower on the priority list. They didn't have time for clones at all in Brawl anyway.
Mewtwo was going to be in Brawl, but simply couldn't due to time constrains.
These two were cut in favor of having Charizard, who was seen as more popular and iconic than either of them. Plus, they probably didn't have time to reimagine all three as new characters.

I see zero reason to cut the characters we already have. They're not relevant anymore? That shouldn't matter at all. Smash is a ****ing relevancy maker.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I saw Kamek referenced. Solid addition option. But I now feel obligated to reinstate my support for Stork as well.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Legit, Greninja is most likely not getting cut unless we get some huge time restraints. Heck, Greninja got his Ash form in Gen 7, making him as relevant as he was in 6, as well as winning the most popular Pokemon poll a while back.

 

[Radical Bones]

I saw someone reference Rowlet as being a possibility in Smash 2018 as it won the popularity poll for SM and is prominent in the anime.

Smol round birb could be fun tbh. Would be align more with Pikachu and Jiggs rather than the other E D G Y P O K E B O Y S.

I'm still team Mimikyu though.

 

[Mechonis]

A bit late, but I want to say that I didn't really like Miis at first, but then I enjoyed them after it seemed to play mind games with my younger brother. He not only had to fight his elder brother outside the game, but inside it as well. Haha.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Are we seriously having another Greninja being cut discussion?


It's not gonna happen. If Lucario's popularity with the fans and Smash saved him, then Greninja is on the same boat. I really don't want to see this whole thing happening again like they did with Lucario and Ike in the previous game and sickened me to death

 

[pupNapoleon]

In that case, cut Lucario. His popularity has been on the decline and is not as relevant. People were suggesting Zeraora as a newcomer, that'd make a fine substitute.

Personally, I just do not see them making too many, if any, cuts from the current Pokémon roster. It is very solid and, while having maybe a bit too much Gen 1 representation, demonstrates the wide variety of Pokémon.



There is a Nintendo Kangaroo?! Sign me right up for supporting that as a WTF character, and not just because I am an Aussie.

Too much gen 1? Unlike games like Fire Emblem, Pokemon actually does have recurring character. Every Pokemon in gen one is in every generation thereafter. Many are actually significant in several of the generations as well.

This really doesnt make any sense. Additionally, Pokemon is about far more than just a variety of creatures- it has unique mechanics and a world all of its own. None of those core ideas- evolution, training and capturing, team strategy- is in even a single aspect of Pokemon as it is currently.

Arguably, the roster was at its greatest variety after Brawl. And still we got cuts. We should expect it by now.

 

[Arcanir]

I listed a few different reasons as to why Empoleon has garnered more spotlight.

We get Pokemon cuts every game, why would we not in this game? We have a precedence for it happening in every game where cuts have happened. Additionally, there is a seeming pattern of last in, first out, with Pokemon.
It is by no means a rule, but the series has been trimmed each time.

Additionally, there is a lot of reason to try to choose starters from a greater variety of time spans between them. Starter Pokemon are the first ones characters bond with, and in many cases the emotional weight of the game can be felt in the starter Pokemon.
Choosing starter characters from several variant generations means covering that initial emotional current more thoroughly (that is to say, if you choose three starters from three very different time frames, then the widest span of people will connect with those starters from their childhood).

As Swamp said, Piplup is not Empoleon. The reason Piplup is popular and was used in I Choose You was because of its own attributes up to and including its role in the DP anime (which is notable for not wanting to evolve), things that Empoleon doesn't share and can't be equated just because they're in the same line. It's like saying Persian should be playable because Meowth is so popular and notable, Persian does have its own fans, but Meowth's promotion and characterization is far removed from its evolution and Persian would lack a lot of what makes the character so loveable.

Similarly, the argument for Gen 4 representation for a remake isn't the best ground to stand on when we already have such a thing in Lucario, Empoleon would not scratch the itch anymore then he would. Even ignoring that there's little evidence showing that Sakurai cares enough about the remakes to add characters to the game for it.

In that case, cut Lucario. His popularity has been on the decline and is not as relevant. People were suggesting Zeraora as a newcomer, that'd make a fine substitute.

Lucario just appeared in I Choose You and it's been consistently high in its popularity and promotion since its release, it's not going anywhere.

 

[?????????????]

Too much gen 1? Unlike games like Fire Emblem, Pokemon actually does have recurring character. Every Pokemon in gen one is in every generation thereafter. Many are actually significant in several of the generations as well.

On that note, I’ve always wanted Meowth as a playable character.

 

[Autumn ♫]

On that note, I’ve always wanted Meowth as a playable character.

Me and you both. Why he hasn't been added in yet is beyond me.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Historcally, all of the Pokemon characters that have been cut have had a reason to:

She was a clone of Pikachu, which inherently put her lower on the priority list. They didn't have time for clones at all in Brawl anyway.
Mewtwo was going to be in Brawl, but simply couldn't due to time constrains.
These two were cut in favor of having Charizard, who was seen as more popular and iconic than either of them. Plus, they probably didn't have time to reimagine all three as new characters.

I see zero reason to cut the characters we already have. They're not relevant anymore? That shouldn't matter at all. Smash is a ****ing relevancy maker.

Why is Pichu on the lower priority list than, say, other clones?
Mewtwo was not intentionally cut, but he was still cut. Could happen again.
Squirtle and Ivysaur would be difficult to reimagine? It's one move, dude.

We know Pokemon as a series prioritizes newer characters. We have actually been told this by Sakurai directly.

All Pokemon are popular, theyre Pokemon. It is a series that is so recognizable beyond just gaming that almost any character it includes has three legs up on almost all other characters in Nintendo's arsenal.

Still we see cuts.

Me and you both. Why he hasn't been added in yet is beyond me.

I would eat a human child to have Meowth in Smash.

 

[Danpal65]

Too much gen 1? Unlike games like Fire Emblem, Pokemon actually does have recurring character. Every Pokemon in gen one is in every generation thereafter. Many are actually significant in several of the generations as well.

This really doesnt make any sense. Additionally, Pokemon is about far more than just a variety of creatures- it has unique mechanics and a world all of its own. None of those core ideas- evolution, training and capturing, team strategy- is in even a single aspect of Pokemon as it is currently.

Arguably, the roster was at its greatest variety after Brawl. And still we got cuts. We should expect it by now.

I know Pokémon is more or less iterative and builds upon an expanding roster of characters, I have been playing since Silver. I also get that it makes sense that we have Pikachu, Charizard, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo in the roster, they are all very iconic Pokémon.

What I was trying to say was that to get a better representation of Pokémon it would be better to provide a wider scope of the series and showcase some of the newer Pokémon and not dwell or focus too much on the original generation, or ones that already have representation. This is one of the reasons why I doubt Squirtle and Ivysaur will be back. They were cut due to Charizard being more popular and removing transformations and there is no reason in regards to the current climate of Pokémon popularity and relevancy to bring them back.

Lucario just appeared in I Choose You and it's been consistently high in its popularity and promotion since its release, it's not going anywhere.

Oh I know he is still popular, I was trying to make the point that it would make just as much sense to cut him as Greninja. But I didndid not know he was in I Choose You, never got round to watching it, so thanks for letting me know.

 

[Lord-Zero]

My hope is for some Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE music, or even a stage.

That would be perfect.

A stage based on one of the Idolaspheres would be perfect for Smash. Especially the one that’s commonly used for battles.

As for other Atlus stuff getting over TMS stuff...yes, it’s very likely but screw that noise, I still want the TMS stuff first.

 

[Starcutter]

Why should that matter? No character "needs" to get in.

I hate this mindset

I never said that they SHOULDN'T get in. I used that to mostly say that "I think that Yoshi's Island won't get another character." I apologize for my poor wording.

Even then, I really feel like sakurai can do whatever the hell he wants and I'll still buy it. I feel in no way like my opinions mean literally anything. People on here shouldn't care so much about other people's opinions since they don't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'd like to see Impa share the slot with Sheik.
Sure, arguably, they would have different styles.
But it would be nice to rectify the character, and put Impa as the star, with a nod to Sheik by making her an alt.
I cannot agree with both in as separate characters- the Sheikah are not prominent enough in the games to take up 1/3 characters.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

yo realtalk why the **** does everyone want sans as an undertale rep when toriel is RIGHT ****ING THERE? for realsies, she's got rad attacks and good inspriations, is an affable character, and...

Spoiler: MASSIVE ****ING GAME-BREAKER OF A SPOILER FOR A GAME COMING OUT ON THE SWITCH SO DON'T CLICK THIS YOU DUMMY

she doesn't die in one ****ing hit.

 

[Starcutter]

yo realtalk why the **** does everyone want sans as an undertale rep when toriel is RIGHT ****ING THERE? for realsies, she's got rad attacks and good inspriations, is an affable character, and...

Spoiler: MASSIVE ****ING GAME-BREAKER OF A SPOILER FOR A GAME COMING OUT ON THE SWITCH SO DON'T CLICK THIS YOU DUMMY

she doesn't die in one ****ing hit.

I mean, Spoilers, I guess, but Torel CAN die in one hit...


Also what do you mean "everyone wants sans"? Who told you this lie?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I also feel we should have a significant greater number of Assist Trophies. More than double the number of playable characters.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

I mean, Spoilers, I guess, but Torel CAN die in one hit...


Also what do you mean "everyone wants sans"? Who told you this lie?

seen a grand total of zero goatmoms on rosters, and already saw 3+ sans-ers. even the smash roster doesn't have a toriel image, had to make that one myself.

 

[kylexv]

I mean, Spoilers, I guess, but Torel CAN die in one hit...


Also what do you mean "everyone wants sans"? Who told you this lie?

I think its just that a lot of people feel that, if they want a character from Undertale, Sans would offer the most unique moveset.
However, I think that "everyone" is probably limited to people who want someone from Undertale in Smash (I sure don't)

Besides...

Spoiler

Sans is already in the game
/s

 

[pupNapoleon]

So I came up with a pet care mechanic for Agumon.

• Feed vitamins to maintain his Strength.
• Feed food to maintain his Energy.
• If you care for him enough you'll be able to bandage him to recover a bit of damage.
• Caring for him includes proper food and vitamins as well as using the bathroom icon.
• He can drop deuces and it can be picked up as a weapon/ item by using the bathroom.

So, props to this user here. My thoughts on Agumon were completely shifted. Doesn't happen often. Kudos.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I mean, Spoilers, I guess, but Torel CAN die in one hit...


Also what do you mean "everyone wants sans"? Who told you this lie?

Honestly, I want Undyne. I think she'd fit the best in a Smash setting, plus she's my favorite Undertale character.

 

[Troykv]

Why is Pichu on the lower priority list than, say, other clones?

Popularity in Smash I guess (Falcondord is Falcondord, and Falco had always being a popular pick in Smash even if he's a clone).

 

[Retroend]

so i don't think anyones brought this up but what about more amiibos for the newcomers? imagine ridley's amiibo. lol.

 

[Danpal65]

so i don't think anyones brought this up but what about more amiibos for the newcomers? imagine ridley's amiibo. lol.

It would be so big!

Seriously though, amiibo are actually one thing I am really looking forward to with this game, especially a Ridley one. I probably will not re-buy most of the cast as I already have them, but characters that I really like and may have a redesign (Link, Zelda, Samus) or have a really nice new version I will get. Looking forward to whatever newcomers as well.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

so i don't think anyones brought this up but what about more amiibos for the newcomers? imagine ridley's amiibo. lol.

ridley's amiibo.

ridley

lol

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'd much prefer Papyrus in Smash before Sans.

Not like an Undertale character is anywhere near likely to get in to begin with. But, if we did get one, I'd pick The Great Papyrus.

 

[ErenJager]

On that note, I’ve always wanted Meowth as a playable character.

Would you be okay with an Alolan Meowth?