Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

Hey, at least you'ld still get Geno...

I suppose that's the Yang to my current Yin, i'm still kinda bummed though.

 

[Chrollo.]

Has the Grinch render been confirmed or debunked yet?

That’s literally all I care about.

Sources from, um, the Illuminati have uh told me it is indeed real, uh, but uhm, plans may change

 

[The DanMan051]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1055452816628568065
Recently had a teaser of the 1.0 build in a Japanese commercial... and seemingly no additional trademarks.

It would be very, very weird to superimpose 1.0.0 in post production over a non-final build of the game; after all, unless you're specifically looking for it and squinting, you aren't going to notice it at all. And you can't use the character unlocks excuse, because all the trademarks seem to be there which would imply the roster is fully or sufficiently unlocked.

What people don't seem to get is that the Grinch part could be entirely real yet separate from the leak. The person clearly has talent either way; it's very possible their current job is working on promotional material for the Grinch and they drew up the Smash stuff on their free time and used company tools to print out a couple of things (people do it from time to time with copiers and stuff; I don't see it being unrealistic here). Stuff like the type of paper they're using does't really confirm anything; as of now, it's a rollercoaster ride of trying to prove things while stuff pointing towards it being fake is beginning to pile up-- on top of the fact you'd have to liberally interpret something Sakurai has stressed (not a one off comment from over a year out in the publicity cycle) and think they somehow were going to reveal 5 unique newcomers in a month (two of who are blatant wish fulfillment for very small but very vocal parts of the community). On top of basically every insider being on the fence or personally thinking it's fake.

As-is, it's more of an uphill battle at this point to prove it's legitimacy than it is to assume it's fake.

 

[KingBroly]

I'm not sure how it can be "photoshopped" if no one has access to the Banner character renders in order to move them around.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Incerineroar and Medusa are definitely in and you can believe that.

I still think Incineroar isn't too out of the question...
But Medusa's another story...
The only plausible echoes imo are Dixie Kong, Ken, and Shadow

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Seriously? Man how time flies. Feels like just yesterday sunshine, luigi's mansion and melee were the best big thing.

Now I just feel old and I'm only in my early 20s

Yeah, I was quite taken back when they had their 10th year anniversary, I had to check because I genuinely thought it was a joke. I'm not sure why, but Pokémon is just one of those things where it feels like time doesn't really move, my nostalgia lies with Gen 1 and 2, everything after that feels like yesterday for some reason.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Has the Grinch render been confirmed or debunked yet?

That’s literally all I care about.

They're legit and were already shown to the public

 

[Espio264]

I was able to remove and move various characters in GIMP yesterday in under an hour. Since the background is clouds you really can sorta go ham crazy with the blur tool because no one is gonna look for tiny minute differences in what's essentially just pure chaos.

Well then, I wanna see your work.

It would be tedious but it most certainly can be done, the rayman leak, the palutena leak, people can do some amazing things on photoshop with some skill. Also it's not like we got a clear screenshot, it could look a mess close up for all we know

Yeah, the Palutena and Rayman images were a bunch of tedious work meant to be seen and picked apart for their realism, they weren’t half-assed like people seem to suggest this is.

 

[StormC]

I'm very willing to listen if Jonneh has said he's not buying the leak, his sources are incredibly strong as far as anything Nintendo related is concerned, I have no doubt he knows the full roster at this point. He even got the Ridley ball rolling before Vergeben, even if somewhat accidentally.

Jonneh was literally bashing K. Rool and downplaying his chances the night before his reveal, thanks to Verge's "no DK rep" nonsense.

I'll take what he says with a grain of salt.

 

[NotLiquid]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I don't know if I'm crazy, but is Rosalina's dash attack nerfed (0:39)? It looks like her active frames come out a little later than it used to since Toon Link's invincibility frames seem to have gone out by the point the attack initiates.

I'll let a Rosalina expert answer that for me.

 

[Tart]

He does work for a company that does that sort-of marketing stuff, though no one has found proof it works for Nintendo, Namco, nor Universal.

Though, upon asking the guy if he leaked it, would you expect him to tell the truth when he's trying to avoid lawsuits and such? It may not even be him, but a co-worker. This thing won't be debunked until the next direct if the mural poses don't match up (I'm 99% sure Ken is in).

Yeah, you definitely have a point. I've also considered this it to the point were I personally believe the leak still has a shot. It just seems (to me) to have lost a lot of it's certainty that it had before. I was thinking maybe another employee may have framed him too, but apparently the company that was supposedly involved in the leak isn't even working with Bamco (although they never said they weren't working for Nintendo?) Maybe it's an employee working a another company that's working with Nintendo now?

There's all so much to it that even having an opinion on the matter is hard lol. Bring on Ken.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1055452816628568065
Recently had a teaser of the 1.0 build in a Japanese commercial... and seemingly no additional trademarks.

It would be very, very weird to superimpose 1.0.0 in post production over a non-final build of the game; after all, unless you're specifically looking for it and squinting, you aren't going to notice it at all.

What people don't seem to get is that the Grinch part could be entirely real yet separate from the leak. The person clearly has talent either way; it's very possible their current job is working on promotional material for the Grinch and they drew up the Smash stuff on their free time and used company tools to print out a couple of things (people do it from time to time with copiers and stuff; I don't see it being unrealistic here). Stuff like the type of paper they're using does't really confirm anything; as of now, it's a rollercoaster ride of trying to prove things while stuff pointing towards it being fake is beginning to pile up-- on top of the fact you'd have to liberally interpret something Sakurai has stressed (not a one off comment from over a year out in the publicity cycle) and think they somehow were going to reveal 5 unique newcomers in a month-- two of who are blatant wish fulfillment. On top of basically every insider being on the fence or personally thinking it's fake.

As-is, it's more of an uphill battle at this point to prove it's legitimacy than it is to assume it's fake.

Hmm...watch someone steal that build and datamine it. If someone does, the "Grinch leak" will probably be confirmed/deconfirmed

 

[wagnerelli12]

Diamond and Pearl are 12 years old. Kids who played them are late teens and adults now. You can have Nostalgia for them.

Yeah, I worked my first job (not totally legally) to earn money for a Nintendo DS and Pokemon Diamond. It's my nostalgia game.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to eat pizza...

 

[Trisepta]

Photoshop and Illustrator are my main tools of work. This could be all easily photoshopped with a lot of effort but not that much how you think

Happy?

Agreed. And content-aware fill is also a thing. The new CC 2019 version is very powerful too.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 171967

If you want to ignore the hard evidence presented by Spawn Wave, the Resetera mod team, and Nintendo Life's Alec, who have been proven multiple times to have actual insider information, alongside multiple other proven insiders who have proven insider sources that have occasionally been wrong in favor of a single source and a 4chan text leak be my guest. But don't be surprised if its fake.

Question:

How can you be certain that the information provided by Resetera, Spawn Wave, and Nintendo life is credible and reliable?

Considering that many of these reputable leakers with insider info, have confirmed having shoddy and inaccurate sources before, and have been wrong in the past, combined with the fact that we know that Nintendo has likely been spreading false leaks in order to catch moles and create confusion. It's a very real possibility that the sources all these leakers have all have fake leaks for info. Especially since it's very likely they all come from the same source (info passed around by Nintendo themselves), and the evidence presented to us is nothing more than "I know this guy with insider info." Words, nothing with any verifiable evidence. The fact that "they've been right before" can be nothing more than them falling for the set-up presented by Nintendo, leak some safe, small info to certain sources to they gain credibility, but feed them false info just the same to see who's leaking what, and hide whatever you really wanna keep hidden. Given Nintendo's track reckord with leaks, especially in Smash, this is not an outlandish assumption.

Thus, just in the same way it very possibltat both the Chadnondorf leak, and the Grinch leak, could have been made by the same person as some sort of master plan to ruse people (unlikely, but I won't deny the possibility is there), you have to admit that the possibility that all these accredited leakers with certified info, have fake info, and that's why it's not lining up with the Grinch and Chadnondorf leaks. After all, many of them have been way off in the past.

It's very disingenious of you to present their argument as "hard evidence" when nothing they're presenting is verified in any way. In fact, what you're doing is you're appealing to authority in order to try and win an arguement, without pausing to try and verify the sources of your own claims (their own claims) and see if they're something with any authentically verifiable evidence. As it stands, the Grinch leak holds more weight than the words of "authority figures" saying "trust us" because at least the Grinch leak has more evidence, and is being verified by what seems to be two separate sources.

Now, while it might be possible all of that could be a ruse, it's up to the opposition to provide PROOF to disprove that. Not use a weaker argument and an appeal to authority as a substitute for proper debate. That's called a logical fallacy, please don't do that.

I bring this up because Serebii came up in the thread saying that "the burden of proof lies on the grinch leak to prove itself" but the grinch leak already has evidence supporting it. Really, the burden of proof now falls on the opposition to try and break down that evidence with solid arguments. Arguments that align more than "trust us, it's fake cause I know a guy who told me something different, and he's an insider" as I said before, insiders can, and very likely do have false information. Thus, in order to dispell the Grinch leak, you need to bring forward solid evidence that the Chadnondorf and Grinch leaks are both by the same person, and both fabricated, OR provide evidence that the claims being made by the insiders are verifiably true in some fashion. If you can't do neither, then you don't have an argument, and your best bet is to just wait it out till the Direct to see what happens.

 

[mbvswb]

Diamond and Pearl are 12 years old. Kids who played them are late teens and adults now. You can have Nostalgia for them.

Yep. Diamond was my first Pokemon game, and I'm 17.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Okay, can someone actually have a justifiable reason as to why Smash Ultimate's marketing has been "****ty" when all of you who say that whenever a Direct comes around then make a complete 180 and say "WOW, THAT WAS SPECTACULAR, THEY WERE SO ON POINT!!1" I see this so much and I'm done being silent about it when any of you try and say Smash Ultimate has terrible marketing yet do a 180. This has become the best hype cycle in Smash history, and you know that for a damn fact.

The Pic of the Days were ****ing terrible. They were only centralized on a social media platform exclusive to the Wii U - a dead console - and that was your only way of getting information. Half of the time? Needless information that NOBODY cared about. Some of the time? Veteran reveals. Some of the time, other kinda cool stuff.

The Smash Dojo!! was a great martyr of how to go about releasing Smash information in a good consistent manner, but it was mainly to give out little bits of new information. In this day and age with Nintendo giving Directs to release info, what use would a blog do? Smash Ultimate has this monacre of "EVERYONE IS HERE", so they're using the blog for that, and some new stuff like music here and there, and other tidbits. They're using it to celebrate the roster. Not to mention, they have to space out other game-related info too that isn't JUST Smash, so it becomes a juggling contest with a lot of things.

Literally, this is JUST like how Pokemon fans say the last game was ****, even though they loved all the hype surrounding it and the game, too. Happened with ORAS, X and Y, Sun and Moon, and no doubt will happen to Gen 8. So please, I want a logistical and justifiable list of reasons why Smash Ultimate's hype cycle has been trash, because most likely it's based on feelings.

Woah, woah, calm down. While I think the case of the marketing being "terrible" is over-exaggerating, they dropped the ball by releasing every single character trailer at the start, when they could have released them when the character was blogged about, so that even when there were lulls (thanks to the bad pacing, which even Sakurai seemingly acknowledged himself) we'd have something to talk about.

That's not terrible by any means. Certainly not ideal, either.

 

[Soulsaint]

Imagine this: leak turns out fake and the grinch was added as a troll. Because the character is a troll that jokes around and ruins Christmas (christmas being the Smash speculation and hype)

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Though in my personal opinion, X and Y was a pretty damn fine adaptation of the current gen at the time and should also be up there with D/P and the OG.

From what I've seen and heard fron fans, White/Black wasn't the pinnacle of the animated series at all, although I've seen a fair amount of praise for the game adaptations.

I didn't get to play much Pokémon due to not having much in the terms of portable game systems to play them on, so most of my experience with Pokémon was from the animated series and its movies.

 

[PsySmasher]

Diamond and Pearl are 12 years old. Kids who played them are late teens and adults now. You can have Nostalgia for them.

My God it's been that long?
You people are making me feel old.
And I'm barely into college.

 

[WaxPython]

Yeah, I was quite taken back when they had their 10th year anniversary, I had to check because I genuinely thought it was a joke. I'm not sure why, but Pokémon is just one of those things where it feels like time doesn't really move, my nostalgia lies with Gen 1 and 2, everything after that feels like yesterday for some reason.

Yeah deadset diamond and pearl feel like they released not too long ago. Even games like Brawl feel the same and it's been ages for that game too.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

I want to eat pizza...

Can we order Dominos?

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

The implications of this being real mean that there will be a Mach Rider, Golden Sun, Banjo-Kazooie and Rhythm Heaven Stage, and possibly a Mario RPG stage as well. Not to mention a possible Sun/Moon stage if Incineroar is also real. That fills up 6 empty stage spots exactly, which means DLC stages may be just under a tab instead of a space.

 

[Fenriraga]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I don't know if I'm crazy, but is Rosalina's dash attack nerfed (0:39)? It looks like her active frames come out a little later than it used to since Toon Link's invincibility frames seem to have gone out by the point the attack initiates.

I'll let a Rosalina expert answer that for me.

Wait, what?

The Wendy's tour is just the demo, right? Why is there so much non demo footage in that video?

That's... misleading lol

 

[Espio264]

Photoshop and Illustrator are my main tools of work. This could be all easily photoshopped with a lot of effort but not that much how you think

Happy?

Exactly. “A lot of effort”.

Why would they leak a tiny, blurry image after a lot of effort.

 

[Deleted member]

Can we order Dominos?

Can it come to Canarias too?

I hope so.

 

[Deleted member]

Photoshopping things does take skill, yes, but there are so many QOL tools in art programs nowadays for artists that making convincing and high quality artwork is not nearly a Herculean task as portrayed.

Difficult? Yes. Impossible? Absolutely not. It depends on the skill of the artist and how determined they are. Heck, even the Ken leak could be fake. To each their own, though. There isn't anything out there to give 100% either way right now.

 

[Blu99]

On another note, does anyone know if there are any Square Enix properties announced in the game currently?

 

[JoyStar]

Y'know this team stuff reminds me of the Twlight craze with it's shipping, I didn't ever read the books or watch the movies but the TEAM stuff was so wide spread.

Oh my gosh, you just reminded me there was even a commercial related to that! I can't find it and I don't remember the company that did it (McDonalds, maybe), but t was about these two older ladies with one being on Team Jacob and the other on Team Edward.

 

[Trisepta]

Exactly. “A lot of effort”.

Why would they leak a tiny, blurry image after a lot of effort.

To hide the flaws and not have to put in more effort with the character renders.

 

[IMainKingKRool]

On another note, does anyone know if there are any Square Enix properties announced in the game currently?

Final Fantasy and Cloud.

 

[Polar Bair]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1055452816628568065
Recently had a teaser of the 1.0 build in a Japanese commercial... and seemingly no additional trademarks.

It would be very, very weird to superimpose 1.0.0 in post production over a non-final build of the game; after all, unless you're specifically looking for it and squinting, you aren't going to notice it at all. And you can't use the character unlocks excuse, because all the trademarks seem to be there which would imply the roster is fully or sufficiently unlocked.

What people don't seem to get is that the Grinch part could be entirely real yet separate from the leak. The person clearly has talent either way; it's very possible their current job is working on promotional material for the Grinch and they drew up the Smash stuff on their free time and used company tools to print out a couple of things (people do it from time to time with copiers and stuff; I don't see it being unrealistic here). Stuff like the type of paper they're using does't really confirm anything; as of now, it's a rollercoaster ride of trying to prove things while stuff pointing towards it being fake is beginning to pile up-- on top of the fact you'd have to liberally interpret something Sakurai has stressed (not a one off comment from over a year out in the publicity cycle) and think they somehow were going to reveal 5 unique newcomers in a month-- two of who are blatant wish fulfillment. On top of basically every insider being on the fence or personally thinking it's fake.

As-is, it's more of an uphill battle at this point to prove it's legitimacy than it is to assume it's fake.

I think this is a good counter-argument.
For some reason, Twitter is hiding that reply at the bottom. I don't really have anything on the rest of your post, but still, I'm 50/50 on this leak.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The implications of this being real mean that there will be a Mach Rider, Golden Sun, Banjo-Kazooie and Rhythm Heaven Stage, and possibly a Mario RPG stage as well. Not to mention a possible Sun/Moon stage if Incineroar is also real. That fills up 6 empty stage spots exactly, which means DLC stages may be just under a tab instead of a space.

A monster hunter stage could still happen, doesn't seem worth it to create that stage just for a boss encounter after all. And if vergeban is to be believed, combined with banjo, a minecraft stage could happen as well.

It's also possible we don't get a mach rider stage because rob still doesn't have one, and a smrpg stage could be skipped as well

 

[Noipoi]

Yep. Diamond was my first Pokemon game, and I'm 17.

My first games were White version and Pearl version. I'm also 17.

Though in my personal opinion, X and Y was a pretty damn fine adaptation of the current gen at the time and should also be up there with D/P and the OG.

From what I've seen and heard fron fans, White/Black wasn't the pinnacle of the animated series at all, although I've seen a fair amount of praise for the game adaptations.

I didn't get to play much Pokémon due to not having much in the terms of portable game systems to play them on, so most of my experience with Pokémon was from the animated series and its movies.

X and Y is one of the better animes. Black and White is one of the worst ones.

My God it's been that long?
You people are making me feel old.
And I'm barely into college.

Smell you later, Gramps!

 

[CosmicQuark]

Photoshopping things does take skill, yes, but there are so many QOL tools in art programs nowadays for artists that making convincing and high quality artwork is not nearly a Herculean task as portrayed.

Difficult? Yes. Impossible? Absolutely not. It depends on the skill of the artist and how determined they are. Heck, even the Ken leak could be fake. To each their own, though. There isn't anything out there to give 100% either way right now.

I think it's only reasonable to say that is it possible? Yes. But it's not just the difficulties in making the artwork itself convincing, it's also all of the circumstances surrounding it that appears to be way more elaborate than seems reasonable. Doesn't mean it can't be that elaborate and fake, but it makes it much more unlikely to be fake.

 

[Blu99]

Final Fantasy and Cloud.

****, forgot about Cloud, still got blind optimism we might see Sora somehow.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

We have two Roys tbf

Roy
The Cooler Roy

Oh its true. (Roy can even be used as the official cool emoji)

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I want to eat pizza...

I want a Nintendo Direct

 

[mbvswb]

Wait, what?

The Wendy's tour is just the demo, right? Why is there so much non demo footage in that video?

That's... misleading lol

As someone who lives in Louisiana, I cant ****ing believe they're not coming to the LSU-Alabama game. It's a *huge* cfb game at one of the colleges with the biggest tailgates in the country.... and I'm not even an LSU fan.

But I'm sure they'll go to the Sugar Bowl in New Orleans on January 1st when the games already out