Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Novice_Brave]

V fun. If it's real, I don't think it goes against anything that's been said by Sakurai-- "slowing down character reveals" was so vague it could have meant just about anything. If there are, hypothetically, no reveals from now until sometime in November when most/all of these characters are revealed, that would be slowing down the rate at which we get news about new characters considerably (regardless of the number of characters actually revealed).

Sakurai's "I hope you aren't expecting too many newcomers" comment still stands, in relation to past games. This would give us 10 unique newcomers, which is still less than half of the number by the end of Smash 4's life cycle. Smallest amount of unique newcomers in any of the games. There's no contradictions there, as far as I'm concerned.

From a marketing perspective, it feels like a great way to cap off Smash Ultimate's marketing cycle -- for a game where so much of the messaging has been focused on the fighters & the size of the roster, a massive direct blowout revealing a large amount of characters in one fell swoop would be an extremely exciting capper that gets people talking and sharing... so I'm not sure I think "too many characters for a single direct" really holds up. Directs are generally 25+ minute long deals. Even if all 6 characters got their own trailer in a single direct (and I'm not convinced there won't be two, where at least 1-2 of these get revealed first) that's only ~12 minutes dedicated to trailers, leaving 10+ minutes (probably 15, 20+) to talk about... whatever else.

All these "rules" about dev time per character or "pace" or anything else like that are essentially just theories. Theories based on patterns, maybe, which makes them better than nothing, but there's nothing to say they are hard or fast -- so it's certainly not impossible for them to be broken.

Additionally -- there's nothing to say that Nintendo won't make use of December as well. The game releases early in December, but I can see there being something dedicated to Smash in early December for a final, last minute marketing push. Until the day the game drops, there's time to market it.

Not saying it's real (though I digress, I hope it is!) but there's nothing that I think contradicts it in a damning way, from the purely speculative side of things.

 

[Luigi The President]

"Oof", as they say in Spain. :/

...uh...I'm not sure I'm understanding why it's so "oof"?

 

[Deleted member]

That...just sounds really ignorant, I’m sorry. That’s like a detective claiming a person is guilty of murder just cause they found one thumbprint on the barrel of a gun. You need way more evidence to make your case.

That's the literal opposite of how it works.
People are innocent until proven guilty. Leaks are fake until proven real.
If you can't get past one roadblock, the whole case falls. If you accuse someone of murder but they have proof they couldn't be there at the time, they're innocent unless you can discredit the claim.
If the leak has one thing that shows it was faked, then you can't call it real until you can discredit that claim.

Not quite:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

"Moving around"=/="outright disappearing"
They're not gonna just remove shadows in the last banner, it has no reason to and is unprofessional.

 

[Guynamednelson]

What I don't buy is that in three years, this dev team was able to develop 81 fighters, potentially a story-mode, everything in Games & More, everything in Vault, and the main Smash mode that has at least 5 different complex modes in it with 103 stages and 800 pieces of music.

Time will tell, I suppose, but this whole thing seems waaaaaaay too good to be true. Thankfully, we most likely only have like two weeks at most until this is all over.

It helps that they didn't have to make games for two systems and it's been in development for longer than Smash 4 was.

 

[Noipoi]

If this ends up being real, my condolences to all Incineroar supporters. Y’all got the most flak by far.

I'm used to Incineroar getting crapped on. It's a part of life at this point.
What sucks is to endure all the crap in hopes that your character will get in so everyone can finally see why it is you like them, only to have that hope destroyed.

Hope isn't lost, this leak could be fake, it could be missing someone. It's not over yet

 

[CosmicQuark]

I can't believe the GRINCH, of all things, ****ing murdered the box theory (if the leaks's legit, which seems almost 85% likely)

He cleaned out that icebox as quick as a flash.
Rejoice! More characters are coming to Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

That's the literal opposite of how it works.
People are innocent until proven guilty. Leaks are fake until proven real.
If you can't get past one roadblock, the whole case falls. If you accuse someone of murder but they have proof they couldn't be there at the time, they're innocent unless you can discredit the claim.
If the leak has one thing that shows it was faked, then you can't call it real until you can discredit that claim.

"Moving around"=/="outright disappearing"
They're not gonna just remove shadows in the last banner, it has no reason to and is unprofessional.

No one said they outright disappeared. It just looks that way to you cause the image is blurry as ****.

 

[Starbound]

I'm honestly on Team Real purely for ethical reasons.

I don't want to imagine that some asshole rando looked up a graphic design company with ties to Bamco and pretends to be one of their employees to withhold their own identity, which royally ****s over someone's innocent career and company image, all in the name of internet points. I just don't want to deal with the Eric guy being framed if he didn't do anything. If he actually did it, he deserves the consequences.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I dunno...

Something feels really off about this...

 

[Hinata]

This is coming from a guy who has DESPERATELY wanted a massive character leak like this: I can't help but feel really bad for Sakurai right now, if this leak is legit.

Like, if he really cares about surprising Smash fans and keeping everything under wraps, today must be a really, REALLY depressing day for him.

He even said "We're gonna reveal everyone before the game comes out", specifically to prevent something like this from happening again.

Dude just can't win.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

...uh...I'm not sure I'm understanding why it's so "oof"?

I've, "oofed"...

 

[Luigi The President]

I dunno...

Something feels really off about this...

What's up Swamp?

 

[Noipoi]

I dunno...

Something feels really off about this...

I don't buy it either, but what feels off about it to you?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Something related but unrelated - some thoughts on cut characters.

I'm not sure I believe the text leak version of this leak, because I don't see how the same person would have info on who was gut but just in case we need to remember we live in a time of dlc. Cut characters who didn't have time to be finished can always still come back. The only cut characters that can't are those that were dropped for a reason (Chrom).

But yea Ray and other things make that text leak suspicious.

 

[jokermelee]

I'm holding out that what Spawnwave said was true.

they said this banner/armband was made before the final character was revealed, right?
i doubt Nintendo would make posters for before the final characters were revealed, doing it for 1 or 2 new additions every so often doesn't seem financially sound, you would be wasting alot of money on making tons of posters that would be wrong by the next month by the time the game actually comes out

 

[Luigi The President]

I've, "oofed"...

Understandable pal.

Something related but unrelated - some thoughts on cut characters.

I'm not sure I believe the text leak version of this leak, because I don't see how the same person would have info on who was gut but just in case we need to remember we live in a time of dlc. Cut characters who didn't have time to be finished can always still come back. The only cut characters that can't are those that were dropped for a reason (Chrom).

But yea Ray and other things make that text leak suspicious.

I mean...if you predict Mach Rider AND Banjo I'm inclined to believe you.

 

[Raxxel]

I can't believe the GRINCH, of all things, ****ing murdered the box theory (if the leaks's legit, which seems almost 85% likely)

How the Grinch Killed the Box Theory.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But yea Ray and other things make that text leak suspicious.

It reminds me of how the 4chan ESRB leak had a list of supposed DLC, and most of it never happened.

 

[mbvswb]

I'm honestly on Team Real purely for ethical reasons.

I don't want to imagine that some ******* rando looked up a graphic design company with ties to Bamco and pretends to be one of their employees to withhold their own identity, which royally ****s over someone's innocent career and company image, all in the name of internet points. I just don't want to deal with the Eric guy being framed if he didn't do anything. If he actually did it, he deserves the consequences.

The real way to kill this leak is to find Eric on Facebook.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

This feels like the ersb leak again, in which people are trying and struggling to debunk it.

 

[Condenir]

Welllllllll, I sadly think this is real. Happy for everyone who got their characters, sad for Sakurai, sad for me when the only three characters I wanted were Elma, dixie or shantae ;( even just one of them would’ve been enough(as if everything else in the game isn’t already I’m GREEDY)
I do obviously love the grinch tho so I can at least find comedy in this

 

[CaptainCC]

Ok, bored of this thread so I will do what the other guy did and rate the characters:

Mach Rider - 10: I'm old, so I owned, played, and liked this game a lot. Anything retro is up my alley and I'm sure I will be playing him/her. I like the idea of an all bike mechanic if true.

Banjo-Kazooie - 9.5: I remember the dead period in 1998 after Yoshi's Story and before Ocarina of Time in November. I needed something to fill the void and BK was it (along with Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon--highly underrated N64 game). I dumped endless hours into the game until I hit 100%. Never actually beat Tooie. Maybe on the bucket list, but so busy these days (should be working right now, really, but so hyped), I'm behind about ten years with a few exceptions on gaming in general.

Chorus Kids - 9: I haven't played Rhythm Heaven and that's a travesty, but I love the creativity behind multi-character mechanics and I'm excited to see how these guys play.

Geno - 7: I liked Mario RPG well enough. Never been an RPG gamer, but I was able to get through this one. It's been close to 20 years since I played it, so my memories are fuzzy at this point. I do remember enjoying the character.

Isaac - 6: I played the original Golden Sun and, again, not big on RPGs. Didn't hate it, didn't love it, wasn't left with too many memories.

Ken - 4: I like seeing more representation, but renaming clones "echoes" doesn't work on me. I still feel a character should get his or her due or stick to being an assist trophy.

Shadow - 1: Is anybody here old enough to remember the travesty that was the Shadow GameCube game? And how shamelessly it tried to distinguish itself as "not kiddy" by giving him guns? I don't know why anybody cares about this character. Tails is a much better fit for a clone and they could change him up slightly by giving him some limited flight mechanics.

 

[Nekoo]

Uh... Even ResetEra's Imran is at it...

Source

I don't know the final roster. I just know it's not this.

Believe that or not!

 

[Guynamednelson]

How the Grinch Killed the Box Theory.

Every Smasher down on Smashboards debated the Box Theory
But the Grinch, who was marketing for Namco, was weary.
Sick of the claims we'd just get the tiger,
He showed we'd have Banjo, Chorus Kids, and Mach Rider.

 

[Wambo]

He even said "We're gonna reveal everyone before the game comes out", specifically to prevent something like this from happening again.

Dude just can't win.

Exactly. So if Shadow and Ken are both Echoes, and we actually have 5 newcomers left to be revealed, that's potentially 5 more reveal trailers to go along with them, unless they're all huddled together in one like people seem to be saying.

5 trailers that probably cost a lot of money and were intended for surprising the fans of these characters.

Seriously, I love you for possibly confirming Geno, Eric, but **** you, Eric.

 

[Dee Dude]

ooh we doing our rankings for each character (assuming the leak is real) ?

Shadow: 10/10 YES. JUST YES. Now just add All of Me and All Hail Shadow pls.

Ken: 10/10 YES. JUST YES. Nintendo you really knocked it out of the park with these last two echoes.

Isaac: 5/10 Really don't care in the slightest but I have a friend who's a HUGE fan so I'm happy for him.

Chorus Kids: 6/10 Don't care for RH all that much but they were my favorite pick of the bunch. Something about them is so endearing to me.

Mach Rider: 7/10 Retro character so they're already liked in my book. Very interested in their moveset.

Geno: 7/10 Don't care for him but will love to see him in purely for the feeling of nostalgia that will no doubt envelop me about the Brawl days.

Banjo: 9/10 Holy ****. This would hype me up significantly. I wasn't a supporter of them per se but I still really wanted to see them in, they just fit so damn well and practically ooze "Nintendo".

We’re doing this? Sweet.

Banjo-Kazooie: 9/10 BOOYAH!!!! I’m happy they’re (possibly) in, they deserved their inclusion for so long and I’m glad to see Sakurai revived them at last.

Geno: 5/10 Meh, I personally didn’t care about and thought he was an overrated pick, but I’m happy for his longtime fans, guess popularly can truly be a single factor to inclusion.

Issac: 8/10 Awesome! He earned it and I’m extremely happy for his fans and supporters despite not playing Golden Sun.

Chorus Kids: 6/10 Nice to see a Rhythm Heaven get their spot in Smash now, I hope RH fans are satisfied at last.

Mach Rider: 5/10 Eh, it’s cool to see him/her in as well, I guess it’s no suprise really but I would’ve preferred Bandana Dee, Incinaroar or Skull Kid.

Shadow: 8/10 Noice, I had my doubts but I’m glad he’s playable as well, he made too sense not to be in.

Ken: 7/10 Lol, he was a lock either way.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

This is coming from a guy who has DESPERATELY wanted a massive character leak like this: I can't help but feel really bad for Sakurai right now, if this leak is legit.

Like, if he really cares about surprising Smash fans and keeping everything under wraps, today must be a really, REALLY depressing day for him.

He needs some hugs after this.

I too prefer Tails to Shadow. Not going to lie, I like Shadow for his design and abilities more than anything else so I’m cool with him but I grew up with the classics so I’m more partial to Tails and Knuckles. That little mutant knowitall in particular needs an upgrade from a mere background element; Knuckles got upgraded to assist, Shadow presumably gets upgraded to playable and... Tails is in the background still?

He may not be a lot of people’s cup of tea lately (thanks Unleashed/Lost World/Forces for making him a whiny, scared ****) but at least you can say he’s always been there and is THE player 2 of the franchise.

• Almost as old as the Blue Blur himself
• Debuting in the game (Sonic 2) that became the best selling game on its global release giving it enormous media coverage as well as putting Sega next to Nintendo in total market share.
• only missed 3 games since his debut.
• Has 3 games of his own. Hell in two them he defended whole island from villainy on his own and took on an entire army.
• One of the most popular sidekicks in gaming history. He is Sonic’s Luigi.

I know how people feel about saying characters “deserve” things but Tails I feel should at least get more than a cameo just due to his history.

Very well stated here! As great as Shadow is/(potentially) will be for fans of him in Smash, I just feel like Tails is much more deserving-- again, the exact same reasons that you stated he should be in. I'm gonna try and hold out hope for him during DLC, I just need ma boi here already.

 

[link2702]

He cleaned out that icebox as quick as a flash.
Rejoice! More characters are coming to Smash.

You know with your avy i ended up hearing this is grunty’s jibberish and not the narrator of the movie...

 

[Deleted member]

Smashboards...

Eat a snickers

Because we get hyped as heck when we are hungry.

 

[Luigi The President]

Uh... Even ResetEra's Imran is at it...

Source

And who's Imran again

 

[Buzzwole]

What I don't buy is that in three years, this dev team was able to develop 81 fighters, potentially a story-mode, everything in Games & More, everything in Vault, and the main Smash mode that has at least 5 different complex modes in it with 103 stages and 800 pieces of music.

Time will tell, I suppose, but this whole thing seems waaaaaaay too good to be true. Thankfully, we most likely only have like two weeks at most until this is all over.

The returning characters aren't being made from scratch though. Hell, some of them are still using sounds/animations from Brawl.
Melee was made in what, like a year?
They could definitely manage this amount of work in three years, especially with Bandai Namco helping out.

 

[MainJPW]

Welllllllll, I sadly think this is real. Happy for everyone who got their characters, sad for Sakurai, sad for me when the only three characters I wanted were Elma, dixie or shantae ;( even just one of them would’ve been enough(as if everything else in the game isn’t already I’m GREEDY)
I do obviously love the grinch tho so I can at least find comedy in this

DLC train is still pulling into the station. All veterans are back, long time fan favorites are here; I mean really, these characters have a great chance this time.

 

[PsySmasher]

I actually really hope this leak is real just so it can clear the way for Rex, SK, and Elma in dlc. I don't know how well their chances in dlc would fare vs. Isaac, Geno, Banjo, etc.

I agree. Essentially all of the high-requested characters are in the base roster this time around. That pretty much leaves other moderately high-requested/more recent characters like Elma , Bandana Waddle Dee, Rex/Pyra, Spring Man etc. a clear shot for DLC.

Kind of ironic that all of the characters I were majorly pushing for didn't make it (according to the leak); it'd also be kind of annoying to pay more for all the characters I supported. Shadow was the only character I legitimately wanted that was shown in the leak (Isaac, Banjo, and Ken were minor wants).

Hoping that Spawn Wave throws me a bone here.

Either way, if this leak is real, this game truly is Ultimate/Special.
How in the ****ing world are they going to top this if this isn't the last game.

 

[Trisepta]

It's not logical to assume that it all has to either be fake or real. Some parts of it could be real while other parts of it could be fake.
I think it's safe to believe that there was someone that worked at that company.
I'd even say it's safe to believe that he had some Smash Ultimate artwork assets like the mural background and the individual character renders for it.
But there is the possibility that he had those assets and added his own renders to make a fake leak. Not saying that's the case, but it is a possibility.

Also, does anyone know where I can find the individual close up shots from this leak? Whoever pieced them together did a rubbish job.

 

[Sigran101]

To everyone who **** on Incineroar and desperately wanted Verge to be wrong....

....you won.
You ****ing won.....

I hope you ******** are satisfied.....

I was never an Incineroar supporter, but I know this must really ****ing suck. I'm sorry to see it go down like this.

 

[Deleted member]

Let me rate the characters;
Isaac: 10/10. Yes, yes, yes, yes, Y E S!

Geno: 8/10. Great for those that wanted him, a solid inclusion in general.

Ken: 7/10. Expected.

Shadow: 2/10. Boo.

Chorus Kids: ?/10. I idea who they are.

Mach Rider: 8/10. Solid inclusion, and one I called as well.

Banjo & Kazzoie: 9/10. This is a fantastic inclusion. I may not have history them, but Banjo and Kazooie would be amazing.

 

[Deleted member]

So far, i see these likely as DLC:

-Crash
-Elma
-Sora
-Rayman
-Rex
-Bandana Dee
-Sylux

 

[drag0nscythe]

(Users: 262, Guests: 438)

most active I have ever seen this board.

Not much against the banner theory. Hmm. Come on Nintendo get to giving us info. This wait is killing us.

___

oh, and for box theory. There is nothing saying that the 7 we have is not DLC announcements also. (very much a stretch) but they could be DLC. I doubt it though. But it is a throught.

 

[Raxxel]

Every Smasher down on Smashboards debated the Box Theory
But the Grinch, who was marketing for Namco, was weary.
Sick of the claims we'd just get the tiger,
He showed we'd have Banjo, Chorus Kids, and Mach Rider.

You executed the joke way better, bravo.

 

[Deleted member]

Uh... Even ResetEra's Imran is at it...

Source

And here comes all the people who say that "This isn't the final roster!" just as Spawn Wave mentions the mural leak missing a character.

I mean, my gut says it's Sora for the Game Awards, given his sources saying there'll be a reveal there, but there is always the chance if there actually being one more character left we dont know about, as he says it's not Incineroar, but someone else.

Whether it's base or DLC, the next Rumor Wave video Spawn will have to be dissected EXTENSIVELY.