Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Verge's sources are about to get smoked so hard if Incineroar really ain't in.

If he's wrong on both that and Minecraft, I'm not sure how I'll feel. He certainly had a long chain of good guesses (or even good sources) for awhile.

I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt, but unfortunately a lot of their sources can be hit or misses. This might just end up being the latter.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like how everyone's getting excited when since E3 I've been "Just show me the gameplay so I get an idea of their moves, then I'll consider them good or bad"

 

[Deleted member]

How would y'all feel if the leak is real and is the base roster BUT there's no DLC?

Honestly I would feel mildly disappointed since I don't care about these newcomers and only want this to be true so that they clear the air for DLC but I wouldn't mind since look at this goddamn roster man, like 81 characters if this is true. like damn sakurai are you okay

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Verge's sources are about to get smoked so hard if Incineroar really ain't in.

If he's wrong on both that and Minecraft, I'm not sure how I'll feel. He certainly had a long chain of good guesses (or even good sources) for awhile.

What’s funny is that this’ll prove literally everyone who harrassed Vergeben right and make him look like an asshole. History is written by the victors, after all.

I like how everyone's getting excited when since E3 I've been "Just show me the gameplay so I get an idea of their moves, then I'll consider them good or bad"

If you judge whether a character deserves to be in Smash purely based on how good they are gameplay-wise, I honestly don’t know what to tell you.

 

[MSmariosonic]

We live in a world where Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Cloud, Snake, Simon Belmont, and Banjo-Kajooie can all exist on the same screen.

Wow.

The best part is...

That sentence is going to be even longer after all the DLC has been released

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Ok let me try rank the potential newcomers
ISAAC-10/10 Easily the most hype newcomer for me. His inclusion brings Golden Sun back into the spotlight and gives us a character with an awesome moveset based around venus psynergy (earth and plant magic). What more can you ask for

BANJO- 9.5/10- These characters are long lost Nintendo All Stars and they deserve the inclusion more than any other third party in my eyes. They can have a fun and wacky moveset and make a ton of people happy. I didn't give it a full 10 because personally I'm more attatched to Golden Sun than the Banjo Kazooie games but still hype as heck for me

CHORUS KIDS-8/10- I'm not a big Rhythm Heaven guy but seeing more Nintendo IPs join the battle is a big hell yeah from me. The rhythm mechanic can be really cool and I'm mostly excited to see how Sakurai can pull this one off

MACH RIDER- 7/10 - Pretty much what I wanted for an NES rep the most but I wouldn't mind much if he didn't get in. Still a character with some moveset potential. It'd be cool to see how he/she is implemented

GENO - 7/10 - I'm the kind of guy that prefers seeing new Nintendo IPs join the roster over seeing an IP with a ton of representation already like Pokemon and Mario get another rep but Geno could be an exception to that. I love the passion of his fans and the things that he can do so I'd love to try him out

SHADOW -6.5/10 - He's a cool character which can have a cool aesthetic like Dark Samus does but not too exciting for me

KEN - 6/10 - He makes sense but he doesn't excite me. I like Ryu so I would still play him, no problem

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

idk about all of that, the esrb leak had clear screenshots and video footage, this isn't to that level yet

Well on Reddit a guy showed it again as one of those bracelets you stick with really hard to make and fake something like that

Best thing to prove it fake is incineroar

 

[Porygon2]

Would someone be able to compile a list of pros and cons of this leak? Want a clean list to show for a friend

- Potentially missing shadows under characters
- Some potentially wonky details like Jiggly's weird eyes and distorted cloud
- General "don't expect too many fighters"

+ Renders haven't been seen before
+ Blank Battlefield render in full image is totally new and very difficult to fake
+ Moving of original fighters (namely Miis and characters moved to show new details like Roy's foot, Greninja's tongue) also difficult
+ Unseen Grinch movie material also in image
+ Weird specificity of it apparently being an armband and/or hanging display decal for showroom floor
+ Leaker's LinkedIn wasn't newly created, confirmed work at company with Namco as a customer, and has since been made private
+ Original form of Snapchat video, meaning images would have had to have been printed, etc. at somewhat professional standard
+ Little creative details like Isaac having vines, Chorus Kids possibly including conductor

 

[Potato_]

ooh we doing our rankings for each character (assuming the leak is real) ?

Shadow: 10/10 YES. JUST YES. Now just add All of Me and All Hail Shadow pls.

Ken: 10/10 YES. JUST YES. Nintendo you really knocked it out of the park with these last two echoes.

Isaac: 5/10 Really don't care in the slightest but I have a friend who's a HUGE fan so I'm happy for him.

Chorus Kids: 6/10 Don't care for RH all that much but they were my favorite pick of the bunch. Something about them is so endearing to me.

Mach Rider: 7/10 Retro character so they're already liked in my book. Very interested in their moveset.

Geno: 7/10 Don't care for him but will love to see him in purely for the feeling of nostalgia that will no doubt envelop me about the Brawl days.

Banjo: 9/10 Holy ****. This would hype me up significantly. I wasn't a supporter of them per se but I still really wanted to see them in, they just fit so damn well and practically ooze "Nintendo".

 

[Paperchampion23]

Here's the comment on Reddit I was talking about before that to me 100% solidifies this leak:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...roster_leak/e8cqqsc?utm_source=reddit-android

Basically, many characters were shifted, uncovering previous art of certain characters (Greninjas tongue, Roys right foot) that were blocked and not seen because other characters were overlayed on them. This leak image moves tons of characters, many of which reveal new sections of art not previously seen.

This means that if the leak was fake, the faker would have to make a new background, make renders for all 7 new characters, move like 50% of the roster on the mural, and also add in all of the new blocked art that is now seen due to moving many characters. All of this was was put onto an event wristband and taken via Snapchat, which has connected the leaker to his workplace.

WAY to intricate to be faked. This **** is 99% real. I can't even fathom it being fake now, save for some unbelievable **** like the leaker spent many MANY hours to make something like this, while also risking his job.

I know it's blacked out, but - and I don't want to sound like I'm in denial, I'm just genuinely curious - why would they have done such a bad job at blacking it out? It's obvious even from a glance that there's a visible name under it, and there are patches where it's pitch black, so I don't understand why they wouldn't take the five seconds needed to properly black it out unless they were creating an intentional paper trail.

Honest, simple answer: People are dumb.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't personally care much about any of the characters in the leak, but I do recognize it'd be a fantastic way to wrap things up. Geno, Isaac and Banjo fans deserve their reward, Ken and Shadow are as good echo choices as anyone really, and Mach Rider is an incredibly creative addition while Chorus Kids would be quite satisfying in how they complete the ever controversial Gematsu leak.

If it's true I'm likely not going to play any of them outside of casual play, but I'd still appreciate their inclusions a lot, because they're all great in their own right.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

A new leak!!! Tal Tal Heights stage and OoT skin for Link!!!

Spoiler: more leak

I did it editing my entry for the stage contest, it's fake.

That's why I don't believe most of the leaks.
With some patience and time you can make impressive pictures that look real even if they're fake.
Even the Ken leak could still be fake for what we know; someone who has some good photoshop skills can do a fake like that.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Don’t know if its mentioned yet, but some Nintendo France Fansite confirmed with the company shown in the leak that the person who leaked it does indeed work there.

https://twitter.com/nintendoactu/status/1055120111948963840?s=21

Also that Gamexplain video was pretty embarrassing imo. I get keeping expectations low but their arguments really boiled down to “It’s blurry so we can’t see the details, consider it fake”. Even when they mentioned the background information, the true strength behind this leak they brushed it off with that argument.

That's why I've never really liked Gamexplain. They've always just come across as uninformed to me in a lot of situations. I think it's because they have a need to put out stuff as quickly as the possibly can, which I understand, but it ends up making them look bad a lot of the time.

 

[Raspberry]

People have different tastes. Not everyone supports the same characters.

Why prefer 1 (one) character to 7 characters? And not even prefer, but actually be spiteful towards a leak showing 7 hugely requested characters and want it to be fake just so your one character still has chances of getting in, even if it means disappointing so many other people? How selfish can people be?

 

[mynameisBlade]

Probably fake.... I have to keep my expectations in check... That roster would blow more than minds...

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I wonder if there has been any response from the Vergeben team after this just came out. Or hell, even Hitagi, if you wanna go that far. I genuinely want to see where stances are, because if they suddenly have this "oh yeah, this is actually a part of what my sources say" response, yeah, they're pretty much BTFO'd.

Oh, if Inceneroar ain't in. Then whoo boy, do I have a mother trucking case to rest with all who got on my case for saying that Incinnie isn't a lock or guarantee just because Verge said it.

 

[Deleted member]

Well on Reddit a guy showed it again as one of those bracelets you stick with really hard to make and fake something like that

Best thing to prove it fake is incineroar

wait what bracelet thing?

 

[Pakky]

man if that happens he can forget a LOT

What’s funny is that this’ll prove literally everyone who harrassed Vergeben right and make him look like an *******. History is written by the victors, after all.

I'm not even going to join the passive squad on this one.

He wept too hard after putting himself out there to back peddle.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I wonder if there has been any response from the Vergeben team after this just came out. Or hell, even Hitagi, if you wanna go that far. I genuinely want to see where stances are, because if they suddenly have this "oh yeah, this is actually a part of what my sources say" response, yeah, they're pretty much BTFO'd.

This is exactly what I was wondering. Since a Smashified artist had such an intense reaction immediately saying it's fake (not a dealbreaker, but notable), it really makes me curious what insiders with info they haven't shared think about this.

Also plot twist: this was leaked by Vergeben #7.

 

[Iridium]

Anybody here familiar with this victory animation? Just wanted to know.

 

[amazonevan19]

Hello GameXplain! We just called the workplace listed on the supposed leaker's Linkedin profile and can confirm he works there. https://t.co/4Tt2h1yb59

— Nintendo Actu (@NintendoActu) October 24, 2018

Buckle up

Edit:

🛑 Stopping leaks since birth. https://t.co/EWu8eIvcVx

— Flex Seal (@GetFlexSeal) October 24, 2018

TO SHOW THE POWER OF FLEX TAPE, I SAWED THE ROSTER IN HALF!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The more I look the less I'm certain but here's where I saw Gardevoir at least, outlined in the right colors for the different parts.

Spoiler: Still keeping things under wraps for those who wanna avoid leaks

 

[MasterOfKnees]

What’s funny is that this’ll prove literally everyone who harrassed Vergeben right and make him look like an *******. History is written by the victors, after all.

People who harass others because of Smash leaks are wrong on many other levels though.

 

[Nameless Kot]

Yeah sure, but the two characters I'd be estatic about making it in; Banjo and Isaac, have some serious design flaws on that one pic. So I won't believe it.

I mean, look, it's exactly this render.

For once, this is a "leak" I would like to believe, but I just cannot. Isaac is also too short.

I may be a bit too late, but no. Banjo doesn't look like his smashified render. You are free to disagree but if you look closely enough he doesn't have the same posture, his hand is not above his head and he has a more surprises look because Kazooie seems to be springing out of his backpack suddenly, and well kazooie looks nothing alike the smashified render. Anyways, the picture is too blurry to see into details but that's what I think about it.
I hope that by the time I post this, the leak remains real hehe

 

[Jchrono95]

Y'know, I wonder if Nintendo has like a specific person/people looking around specific smash related places like this looking for potential legitimate leaks. Like that's their main job they're paid for

 

[Luigi The President]

Here's the comment on Reddit I was talking about before that to me 100% solidifies this leak:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...roster_leak/e8cqqsc?utm_source=reddit-android

Basically, many characters were shifted, uncovering previous art of certain characters (Greninjas tongue, Roys right foot) that were blocked and not seen because other characters were overlayed on them. This leak image moves tons of characters, many of which reveal new sections of art not previously seen.

This means that if the leak was fake, the faker would have to make a new background, make renders for all 7 new characters, move like 50% of the roster on the mural, and also add in all of the new blocked art that is now seen due to moving many characters. All of this was was put onto an event wristband and taken via Snapchat, which has connected the leaker to his workplace.

WAY to intricate to be faked. This **** is 99% real. I can't even fathom it being fake now, save for some unbelievable **** like the leaker spent many MANY hours to make something like this, while also risking his job.

Ok, THIS is epic

 

[Pakky]

Hello GameXplain! We just called the workplace listed on the supposed leaker's Linkedin profile and can confirm he works there. https://t.co/4Tt2h1yb59

— Nintendo Actu (@NintendoActu) October 24, 2018

Buckle up

Edit:

🛑 Stopping leaks since birth. https://t.co/EWu8eIvcVx

— Flex Seal (@GetFlexSeal) October 24, 2018

TO SHOW THE POWER OF FLEX TAPE, I SAWED THE ROSTER IN HALF!

GOD DAMN IT

DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VERG YOU BETTER SHOW THE **** UP!

YO GOOFY ASS MISSED A WHOLE LOT OF ****

 

[MrSmashFour]

What’s funny is that this’ll prove literally everyone who harrassed Vergeben right and make him look like an *******. History is written by the victors, after all.

If you judge whether a character deserves to be in Smash purely based on how good they are gameplay-wise, I honestly don’t know what to tell you.

Cannot wait. Oh, and Verg absolutely is an *******, in case you missed some of his comments from a month back.

 

[Deleted member]

Hello GameXplain! We just called the workplace listed on the supposed leaker's Linkedin profile and can confirm he works there. https://t.co/4Tt2h1yb59

— Nintendo Actu (@NintendoActu) October 24, 2018

Buckle up

Edit:

🛑 Stopping leaks since birth. https://t.co/EWu8eIvcVx

— Flex Seal (@GetFlexSeal) October 24, 2018

TO SHOW THE POWER OF FLEX TAPE, I SAWED THE ROSTER IN HALF!

holy ****

 

[Deleted member]

I know it's blacked out, but - and I don't want to sound like I'm in denial, I'm just genuinely curious - why would they have done such a bad job at blacking it out? It's obvious even from a glance that there's a visible name under it, and there are patches where it's pitch black, so I don't understand why they wouldn't take the five seconds needed to properly black it out unless they were creating an intentional paper trail.

Because this is a classic case of not knowing the full consequnces of your actions, and thinking you could easily get away with it.

Like, here's the thing. For all the people that think it's fake. Think of what it would TAKE to fake this in the first place.

For one, you'd need to know of a French printing company that works for Bandai Namco, and know of an employee who works there. If that employee is you, then you're putting yourself and your job at MASSIVE risk for a fake leak (I mean, dude's already ****ed, but that's beside the point - even a fake leak would land him in hot water in his job), so in order to fake it, you'd need to know OF an employee, who works for a media company that's hired by Bamco, in order to frame them.

Then, you'd need to put his name in that, and black it out, ASSUMING the internet would be keen enough to dig that up in the first place.

Then you also have to factor in that the LinkedIn account went private shortly after he was found out.

So, the level of preparation AND manipulation of people on the internet, the assumptions you'd need to go through, that's some Kira-level plotting right there my dude.

It's more than obvious this was a blunder, and the dude didn't think he'd be found out. The fact that digging more into it practically verified this dude is legit hired to work on Bamco stuff, is more proof than "but the pixels in the image are blurry." Simply just, Occam's Razor man. We have to take too many leaps of logic in order to come with a scenario for all this to be fake, while simple human oversight is basically what verified the validity of the source.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

People who harass others because of Smash leaks are wrong on many other levels though.

It doesn’t matter whether they’re morally wrong or not, what matters is that they ended up being correct and Verge ended up being wrong about who would be in the game.

 

[wagnerelli12]

Lurked since 2008 and finally joined to discuss this.

My two cents is that it's too neat and too pleasing to be 100% convinced, but that it lines up really nicely with the idea of a roster built from a popular choice ballot.

If we were gonna guess who won the ballot? It would be Ridley, Geno, Isaac, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie. Special collabs like Simon, newly popular like Inkling and Isabelle, and the odd long-running idea like Mach Rider or Chorus Kids make sense. It's just odd that this one makes most people happy and has none of the Incineroar/Steve that would piss people off.

But hey, it's just plausible enough and the source makes sense and it seems like if they wanted to reveal a bunch at once...why couldn't they? Nothing is stopping them except people saying "They wouldn't!" Like, they've not done it before, but they haven't done a lot of things.

I am dreading the time until we get something more. We were fortunate with the ESRB leak that it came from a source that would have images and video. This one doesn't.

 

[Opossum]

Never forget that in a time where many speculators use "Literally Who" to dismiss characters they don't know, the roster was leaked because of the Grinch...


...a literal Who.

 

[Dcas]

Teamfake.

First the quality is all over the place, is so so blurry that i cant attribute any believeable merit.

Second, theres no way we are getting 5 NEWCOMERS and 2 echoes, everything on a single direct, like its almost physically impossible. PLUS, all of those are long time fan favorites, sorry guys but this is most likely fake.

But at least is a good attempt.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It doesn’t matter whether they’re morally wrong or not, what matters is that they ended up being correct and Verge ended up being wrong about who would be in the game.

I mean, I'd say a person's morals are actually important in the walk we call life, gaining bragging rights on an internet forum really isn't unless you're super insecure.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Ranking Each Character in the Leak
Banjo kazooie - Eh, was kinda hoping for Steve 2/10
Geno - He's fine by me... 7/10
Isaac - He's okay, never really wanted him, but I'd be happy for the fans 6/10
Mach Rider - Man, that's a deep cut and I love it 9/10
Ken - The og echo, he makes too much sense 10/10
Shadow - He made too much sense as an echo 9/10
Chorus Kids - HOLY MOLY! THIS WOULD BE MORE HYPE FOR ME THAN THE REST OF THE ENTIRE ROSTER COMBINED! THEIR INCLUSION IS WHY I'M HOPING THAT THIS IS REAL 999/10

Banjo-Kazooie: GUH. HUH. BAYBEE. My childhood is finally completed. 10/10.
Geno: Never played SMRPG, but him being chosen while Captain Toad is being dropped on NDC as a mere background element tells miles about what Sakurai feels about Toad in large. Aside from that, pretty happy for his fans, but for now indifferent. 6/10.
Isaac: HELL YEAH. GOLDEN SUN IS RISING! GBA's biggest cult classic finally earns it's place and gets to heed the long-wanted glory for non-popular Nintendo-franchises in Smash since Brawl. 10/10.
Mach Rider: Interesting? I was sure that we'd not be getting retro reps for this installment. But I guess (s)he feels most workable from what's left. No Rating.
Ken: Indifferent on him, would have preferred Sakura Kasugano. Ah well. No Rating.
Shadow: Feels sensible to be in Smash, though I hope he won't be too unoriginal as an Echo. 7/10.
Chorus Kids: *EXCITED WAILING*. RH-fan within me is so glad to finally get the series repped. 9/10.

In whole though, I feel that this is gonna satisfy a ton of peop----

To everyone who **** on Incineroar and desperately wanted Verge to be wrong....

....you won.
You ****ing won.....

Oh.

I hope you ******** are satisfied.....

If you really think about it, many most likely will be very satisfied with this implied roster, no doubt.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

When this Leakers life and job be ruined even if it's fake. I'd imagine the company he works for wouldn't take lightly on this even if it is fake. So either way he screwed

 

[amazonevan19]

Lurked since 2008 and finally joined to discuss this.

My two cents is that it's too neat and too pleasing to be 100% convinced, but that it lines up really nicely with the idea of a roster built from a popular choice ballot.

If we were gonna guess who won the ballot? It would be Ridley, Geno, Isaac, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie. Special collabs like Simon, newly popular like Inkling and Isabelle, and the odd long-running idea like Mach Rider or Chorus Kids make sense. It's just odd that this one makes most people happy and has none of the Incineroar/Steve that would piss people off.

But hey, it's just plausible enough and the source makes sense and it seems like if they wanted to reveal a bunch at once...why couldn't they? Nothing is stopping them except people saying "They wouldn't!" Like, they've not done it before, but they haven't done a lot of things.

I am dreading the time until we get something more. We were fortunate with the ESRB leak that it came from a source that would have images and video. This one doesn't.

Hello, and welcome! 10 years of lurking dude, damn nice.

I'm leaning more and more towards this being real but I'm not holding my breath. I wish it was from a more reputable source but if this is fake, I honestly can't trust anything.

It is awfully convenient how it's no real controversial characters and ones a ton of people want. Idk. But this has me stoked.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Teamfake.

First the quality is all over the place, is so so blurry that i cant attribute any believeable merit.

Second, theres no way we are getting 5 NEWCOMERS and 2 echoes, everything on a single direct, like its almost physically impossible. PLUS, all of those are long time fan favorites, sorry guys but this is most likely fake.

But at least is a good attempt.

You might want to read like the last 3 pages lol. It's more real than it ever has been

 

[Deleted member]

I'm banking hard on #TeamFake so people can tag me whem actual definitive proof comes out.

To everyone who **** on Incineroar and desperately wanted Verge to be wrong....

....you won.
You ****ing won.....

I hope you ******** are satisfied.....

This is coming from someone who never liked the idea of Incineroar and would have preferred another Pokemon, directed at this fanbase: please for the love of god, if Incineroar is not in, don't let him become the next Chrom.
After the Robin reveal, he immediatelly became a hate magnet to all of the Gematsu haters and I really don't want to see another character get undeserved hate because of leaks.

Unfortunately, I know this will happen because this fanbase ****ing sucks

A new leak!!! Tal Tal Heights stage and OoT skin for Link!!!View attachment 171549

Spoiler: more leak

View attachment 171550
I did it editing my entry for the stage contest, it's fake.

That's why I don't believe most of the leaks.
With some patience and time you can make impressive pictures that look real even if they're fake.
Even the Ken leak could still be fake for what we know; someone who has some good photoshop skills can do a fake like that.

You raised my hopes only to kill them immediatelly. Do you know what I'd do for a Link's Awakening stage? Do you know how many I'd kill for it?