Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[FalKoopa]

Unlike "2nd Party", it makes no goddamn sense.

People usually mean "character not from gaming" by it.

I think what they're trying to say is quite clear.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

There's so few characters that come from outside of gaming that have a legacy in gaming anyways. Most of the ones I can think of anyways are like Golden said, someone like James Bond that has an actor tied to them, or you'd have to jump through hurdles with the author of the book series, etc, etc.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

If y'all want your precious pop culture icons to appear in Smash, then fine. Nothing's stopping you.

But seeing product placement like Pepsiman or freaking Lucky Leprechaun would be the worst thing to ever happen in Smash. In fact, product placement should never touch this series.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'll specify that I don't want Popeye THAT much. He's just the only non gaming character I'd be okay with since he was directly close to being the star of the original Donkey Kong and later did have a Nintendo game.

But he's not like a want I consider realistic, nor necessary to represent Nintendo's history/gaming's history.

 

[Deleted member]

Casually still stealth supporting Popeye in Smash Brothers.

-whistles-

Popeye is probably the BEST example of a legitimate option among characters from franchises of non-gaming origin, actually.

He's got gaming history, Nintendo has actually made games for him in the past, and due to the circumstances regarding copyright, he's public domain literally everywhere except the United States right now, and even that will be changed come 2024.

 

[Schnee117]

James Bond

James Bond is just a legal nightmare in general.

- You have to go through the actor
- If he returns in another entry you might have to go through a different actor
- The production company (and that might change too if Bond returns)
- The Broccoli family/Eon Productions (they own the rights to Bond films)

The only corners you could cut are the actor and production company by making a unique Bond design but he won't have as much draw then.

But seeing product placement like Pepsiman would be the worst thing to ever happen in Smash

This guy trying to disrespect Pepsiman

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If you toe the line of adding people like James Bond, Harry Potter, etc.

You open the flood gate of ''But the X-Men! Spider-Man! Avengers! Justice League!" etc.

Then you also have the ''Shrek has video games and thus is a part of gaming's legacy" meme idiots.

It's just a good thing James Bond didn't work out. A really really really good thing.

 

[Deleted member]

But seeing product placement like Pepsiman or freaking Lucky Leprechaun would be the worst thing to ever happen in Smash. In fact, product placement should never touch this series.

You gotta be kidding.....Pepsiman would be awesome. Who cares if he's product placement?

 

[Kirbeh]

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I've never understood the appeal of crossing over that many different properties. Now, I do understand the appeal of crossovers in general (I love Smash of course, as well as stuff like Marvel vs Capcom and Project X Zone), but when it gets to Goku vs Popeye vs Darth Vader vs James Bond vs Superman vs Scorpion vs Spongebob vs Shrek vs Mickey Mouse vs Maro and stuff like it's a huge turn off for me personally.

Perhaps it'd be petty, but that'd be what makes me drop Smash Brothers, because at that point I'd feel it'd be too far removed from what I like about the Smash in the first place. There is such a thing as "too much" in my opinion, which is also why while I'm generally supportive of third parties game characters, I also don't want there to be so many that they overtake the Nintendo characters in Smash.

I'll happily take another MvC, J-Stars, X Zone and what have you, but trying to crossover crossovers so to speak is where it becomes a cluttered mess.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You gotta be kidding.....Pepsiman would be awesome. Who cares if he's product placement?

His final smash could be a friendship that summons Kendall Jenner to deliver a Pepsi to the other player. They drink it and immediately forfeit the match out of kindness.

 

[Deleted member]

If you toe the line of adding people like James Bond, Harry Potter, etc.

You open the flood gate of ''But the X-Men! Spider-Man! Avengers! Justice League!" etc.

Then you also have the ''Shrek has video games and thus is a part of gaming's legacy" meme idiots.

It's just a good thing James Bond didn't work out. A really really really good thing.

One could argue the same thing applies to the floodgates that have been opened in regards to non-Nintendo characters in general once Snake showed up.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

One could argue the same thing applies to the floodgates that have been opened in regards to non-Nintendo characters in general once Snake showed up.

The floodgates that would open should a non-video game character make it in would be far worse than that when Snake showed up.

 

[LunchmanJ]

I personally want basically every character from Hunter x Hunter:

- Gon
- Killua
- Kurapika
- Leorio
- Hisoka
- Chrollo
- Pitou
- Meruem
- Knuckle

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Sounds like somebody is implying that Smash was never about product placement when its overall concept was a crossover of all of Nintendo's best franchises (their OWN products, old and new). Some franchises became even more popular because of them, Mother and Fire Emblem being two big examples. That's not a coincidence in any way. Not to mention they started to sell toys lately, starting with Smash itself.

Not to mention one of your mains is a toy itself that helped sold a console during a time gaming was dying.

FYI, product placement is only bad when used cheaply, which most films are guilty of. It rarely comes off as pandering in video games, ever.

 

[Kirbeh]

One could argue the same thing applies to the floodgates that have been opened in regards to non-Nintendo characters in general once Snake showed up.

True, but why exacerbate the issue when Sakurai seems to have settled on what his vision for the series is? That of a celebration of Nintendo and other big gaming icons.

And yes other multimedia icons have games, but you get my point

Moreover something I find interesting is that Smash always seems to be the game where people ask for this sort of thing. Where are all the people asking for Shrek in J-Stars or an MLP character in Marvel vs Capcom?

I personally want basically every character from Hunter x Hunter:

- Gon
- Killua
- Kurapika
- Leorio
- Hisoka
- Chrollo
- Pitou
- Meruem
-

While I couldn't disagree more, I'm obligated to like this post as a fellow HxH fan

 

[Deleted member]

True, but why exacerbate the issue when Sakurai seems to have settled on what his vision for the series is? That of a celebration of Nintendo and other big gaming icons.

And yes other multimedia icons have games, but you get my point

Moreover something I find interesting is that Smash always seems to be the game where people ask for this sort of thing. Where are all the people asking for Shrek in J-Stars or an MLP character in Marvel vs Capcom?

I feel exceptions could be made specifically to franchises that hold significance to Nintendo in some way as long as there weren't OTHER issues that would prevent them.
Characters like James Bond, Popeye, or the TMNT honestly have more LEGITIMATE reason to be in Smash than memes like Goku or Shrek.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

TMNT in 8 Man Smash.

All 4 Turtles act as one unit.

System crashs.

Sakurai gives up.

 

[A Distant Demon]

. . .Im still not 100% sure what 2nd party means, because the definition seems to change everytime someone uses it.


I would main Kilua so hard BTW.

 

[LunchmanJ]

. . .Im still not 100% sure what 2nd party means, because the definition seems to change everytime someone uses it.


I would main Kilua so hard BTW.

I'm actually working on a mod of Project M with FMA, One Piece, and Hunter Hunter characters. You can help me if you want. The current roster is:

- Edward Elric
- Alphonse Elric
- Luffy
- Roronoa Zoro
- Maybe Attack on Titan's Eren and Mikasa
- Gon
- Killua

EDIT: I say maybe Attack on the titanz because who even likes that show?

 

[Opossum]

If there were any non-video game characters in Smash and I had my choice, I'd love to see Mickey Mouse. One of the most iconic and important fictional characters of all time, tons of abilities he could use, and tons of games under his belt (Mickey's Mousecapade, Castle of Illusions, the Epic Mickey series, Disney Infinity, and Kingdom Hearts to name a few), I think he'd fit right in.

He'd be a licensing nightmare, but hey. It's not like he'd actually happen, outside a hypothetical.
Also Fantasmic! as his Final Smash please.

 

[FalKoopa]

. . .Im still not 100% sure what 2nd party means, because the definition seems to change everytime someone uses it.

Basically where multiple parties have the rights to an IP.

Only Pokémon really fits that definition though.

 

[Opossum]

Basically where multiple parties have the rights to an IPs.

Only Pokémon really fits that definition though.

And Starfy, if he ever got in. IIRC Tose actually partially owns his rights.

 

[Deleted member]

In terms of non-video game character, I still think Darth Vader would trigger a global reaction at its craziest.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I feel a lot of this is one breath of the wild and not the switch.

Only time I see lag in smash 4 is multiple clouds or items on high in 8 player smash.

The funny thing is, throughout my Smash Wii U hacking experience, I can actually confirm that no performance issues will occur whenever 8 standard Clouds or 8 Advent Children Clouds are fighting at the same time. Which reminds me...

Fighters with alternate appearances should each receive 8 palettes. In Wario's case, 8 WarioWare palettes, and 8 original outfit palettes. Sadly, this is not so simple to do when talking about 3rd party characters like Cloud and Bayonetta, since some companies can be quite strict with their property.

 

[Kirbeh]

The funny thing is, throughout my Smash Wii U hacking experience, I can actually confirm that no performance issues will occur whenever 8 standard Clouds or 8 Advent Children Clouds are fighting at the same time. Which reminds me...

Fighters with alternate appearances should each receive 8 palettes. In Wario's case, 8 WarioWare palettes, and 8 original outfit palettes. Sadly, this is not so simple to do when talking about 3rd party characters like Cloud and Bayonetta, since some companies can be quite strict with their property.

^All of this. Smash seems like the only fighting game that tends to stay away from alternate costumes (or at least the only one I can think of atm). Aside from games that use sprites of course, though it's understandable there, and even then they usually have a ton of palette swaps to make up for it.

Since you brought up Wario, why doesn't he have a full set of 16 when he already had 12 in Brawl? Why cut back to 8?
Shulk should have a full set of swim trunks and an eight regular costume. Why does Mac alone have 16 costumes?

I suppose they just didn't have the time and costumes likely aren't a priority, but I wish they'd at least even things out a bit more.

 

[LunchmanJ]

I think the consensus is obviously that fourth party characters are amazing, so what are the cons of Luffy, Gon, and Edward Elric?

 

[Kirbeh]

I think the consensus is obviously that fourth party characters are amazing, so what are the cons of Luffy, Gon, and Edward Elric?

- They cost oodles of $$$ and negotiating with other game developers is already hard as it is.
- Seems to go against Sakurai's current vision for the series.

That looks like a possible J-Stars roster in the making btw. Why not ask for that?

 

[A Distant Demon]

I think the consensus is obviously that fourth party characters are amazing,

haha oh jeez is this the kind of message this thread wants to endorse?

Maybe I need to start purging members

 

[Wolfie557]

Sounds like somebody is implying that Smash was never about product placement when its overall concept was a crossover of all of Nintendo's best franchises (their OWN products, old and new). Some franchises became even more popular because of them, Mother and Fire Emblem being two big examples. That's not a coincidence in any way. Not to mention they started to sell toys lately, starting with Smash itself.

Not to mention one of your mains is a toy itself that helped sold a console during a time gaming was dying.

FYI, product placement is only bad when used cheaply, which most films are guilty of. It rarely comes off as pandering in video games, ever.

Now if only Kid Icarus had become a lot more popular .
Tho we'll see when a new game comes out, if ever.

edit:
I all honesty, I'd love Gandalf and Jack Sparrow. I'd take those two over 20 video game newcomers.

 

[Luminario]

I think the consensus is obviously that fourth party characters are amazing, so what are the cons of Luffy, Gon, and Edward Elric?

Cons: They're not Miku.

 

[LunchmanJ]

haha oh jeez is this the kind of message this thread wants to endorse?

Maybe I need to start purging members

To be fair, adding characters from stories would be so much more amazing than adding even the most interesting Nintendo character because in good stories there's more focus on making the characters' interesting or likable.

 

[Kirbeh]

To be fair, adding characters from stories would be so much more amazing than adding even the most interesting Nintendo character because in good stories there's more focus on making the characters' interesting or likable.

If that's the case then why do you even want them in Smash, if Nintendo's characters pale in comparison? And if "x" character comes from a good story, how does that even matter when Smash is a fighting game?

If you want a character driven story that Nintendo characters fail to provide, then how would Smash deliver on that?

 

[LunchmanJ]

If that's the case then why do you even want them in Smash, if Nintendo's characters pale in comparison? And if "x" character comes from a good story, how does that even matter when Smash is a fighting game?

If you want a character driven story that Nintendo characters fail to provide, then how would Smash deliver on that?

I can get character driven stories from, well, stories, but it's fun to play characters you actually like.

 

[Kirbeh]

I can get character driven stories from, well, stories, but it's fun to play characters you actually like.

That's fair. Your other post just felt like some mixed messaging to me.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I mean, if there's any "fourth-party" that's going to be added to Smash at any point (unlikely as hell, but given James Bond was considered, I don't see it as impossible), it's going to be a character that's big worldwide; that makes more sense then putting in a character with very localized popularity.

That being said, I can't dismiss the potential of seeing Japanese cultural icons like Godzilla make the transition to Smash if Sakurai decides to add non-gaming characters at some point down the line.

 

[Deleted member]

TMNT in 8 Man Smash.

All 4 Turtles act as one unit.

System crashs.

Sakurai gives up.

I doubt we'd get all 4 Turtles acting as one. :V
Either only one is actually playable (either Leo or Raph) with the other three being support/summons, or you can switch between them like in the NES game (though that'd be a programming nightmare in a Smash context).

To be fair, adding characters from stories would be so much more amazing than adding even the most interesting Nintendo character because in good stories there's more focus on making the characters' interesting or likable.

Smash is the wrong game for that sort of thing.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Double the Smash amiibo!

Can we get more alt costume amiibo?

And Smash for Switch?

 

[Zerp]

So they're doing a lot of stuff for Kirby's 25th anniversary. If Smash for Switch is being developed this year, I think this might just be the best shot a Kirby character's had to get in Smash since a loooong time ago.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

^All of this. Smash seems like the only fighting game that tends to stay away from alternate costumes (or at least the only one I can think of atm). Aside from games that use sprites of course, though it's understandable there, and even then they usually have a ton of palette swaps to make up for it.

Since you brought up Wario, why doesn't he have a full set of 16 when he already had 12 in Brawl? Why cut back to 8?
Shulk should have a full set of swim trunks and an eight regular costume. Why does Mac alone have 16 costumes?

I suppose they just didn't have the time and costumes likely aren't a priority, but I wish they'd at least even things out a bit more.

I guess if anything, the following characters should've received 16 palettes...

1. Wario: 8 WarioWare, 8 Classic
2. Olimar: 8 Olimar, 8 Alph
3. Villager: 8 Male, 8 Female
4. Wii Fit Trainer: 8 Female, 8 Male
5. Robin: 8 Male, 8 Female
6. Cloud: 8 Standard, 8 Advent Children
7. Corrin: 8 Male, 8 Female
8. Bayonetta: 8 Bayonetta 2 palettes, 8 original Bayonetta palettes

This would make it possible for an 8-player Smash to consist of only a specific appearance for a character.

Bowser Jr. would be an odd character to work with though. Perhaps he'd be given only 15 palettes, with 7 of the 15 being the Koopalings. That way, you could potentially do an all Bowser Jr. brawl, and have the option to use any of the Koopalings. Of course, the Koopalings wouldn't receive any alternate palettes, so only one player can use Larry.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Here's an idea I would like to see that I keep bringing up on the boards. I like the idea of expanding the "Vault" into a full blown museum experience similar to how the Namco Museum PS1 games did this. We have seen museum-like presentation in Smash for Wii U, so why not expand on it.

Here's a video that could help explain this a little better. This vid starts Namco Museum: Vol 3's museum mode at 2:44.

Build up on this concept (even better if Bandai Namco develops the next Smash game) and I think it would be great if you not in a match. I also like a quick option for this idea as a "get on with it" option. You can buy costumes, accessories, get better masterpieces, talk to the franchises NPC's like Toads in Mario themed "halls" or maybe a Goron or a Zora in a Zelda "hall" as you play as a Mii.

For example, a 1st floor of Peach's Castle from Super Mario 64 can be a good "hall" for the whole Mario franchise. It will actually feel like you're there.