Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Lyndis_]

Make a LOT of changes to Dedede, including the following:

• Chop off a lot of the endlag on forward aerial.
• Make dash attack less punishable (decrease startup lag, increase range, etc.)
• Make the first two jabs of neutral attack combo better to make it far less risky up close.
• Boost Dedede's air speed a bit.
• Fix down attack's hitbox so it can hit opponents who are right next to Dedede.
• Fox up smash's hitbox so it can hit smaller opponents like Kirby who are right next to Dedede.
• Make Dedede's throws a bit easier to KO off of.
• Chop off a lot of the endlag of Inhale.
• Boost the Gordo reflect percentage from 2% to around 6%-8% so it can get through most projectiles and neutral attacks.
• Fix the damn super armor with Super Dedede Jump, it's so confusing.
• Let us shorthop while charging Jet Hammer.
• Change Dedede Burst to Waddle Dee Army, or at least make it impossible to escape Dedede Burst.

All of this, except I'd give him his old Brawl side special really beefed up.

Was it useful? Well, no, probably not most of the time.

Was it fun? Yeah, you better believe it sure as heck was!

Putting Waddle Dees all over the map to annoy your opponent then randomly getting a Gordo and KOing them when they weren't prepared to avoid it is the best feeling. I'd love to see what Nintendo could do to improve that move.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Five cuts:

 

[MSmariosonic]

Man, some final smashes were really hurt by the 3DS version.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

All of this, except I'd give him his old Brawl side special really beefed up.

Was it useful? Well, no, probably not most of the time.

Was it fun? Yeah, you better believe it sure as heck was!

Putting Waddle Dees all over the map to annoy your opponent then randomly getting a Gordo and KOing them when they weren't prepared to avoid it is the best feeling. I'd love to see what Nintendo could do to improve that move.

I personally found Gordo Toss a lot more useful and fun. Sure, having a bunch of Dees and Doos wander around the stage was fun, but have you seen some of the setups Dedede experts have pulled off with Gordos? It's ****ing insane.

Spoiler

Though if they wanna buff Waddle Dee Toss let us throw Shotzos too.

 

[Knight Dude]

Yeah, I wouldn't really ever cut ZSS. A fun character is a fun character. Same with Ryu, but different strokes for different folks and all that.

 

[Michelaar]

Cuts? Please. I expect little to no cuts, since they really don't need to cut anyone.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Five cuts:

You do realize the original challenge said you couldn't cut ?

 

[Lyndis_]

Whether or not there is cuts is going to heavily depend on if this is a full new game, or a "half-port" Splatoon 2 kind of sequel.

If it's a completely new game like previous titles cuts are almost guaranteed, I think. I don't want them but I'd say it would be a probability. It's all about how they use their development time to get as much in as possible.

If they're using mostly Wii U assets with higher fidelity in a Splatoon 2 fashion I really don't expect any cuts. There'd be no reason for it, obviously.

(Also of course the possibility of it being a full port upgrade like MK8DX, but at this point I think the chance of it being that is next to none. Which I'm more than fine with.)

My heart tells me no cuts, but my mind says to be just as prepared for disappointment.

 

[Michelaar]

I still can't see them cutting anyone though. Smash 4 had probably the best roster Smash had ever seen. They really don't need to make cuts. Like there is very little reason to.

Also I don't see why so many people want to cut Corrin? Again, very little reason why they should cut him. He has a very unique moveset. I guess someone comes at me with the argument ''But he's another swordsman'' and i'm wonderingm what does that even matter when most sword users in the game are unique? That's honestly the dumbest complaint I have heard.

 

[Lyndis_]

I still can't see them cutting anyone though. Smash 4 had probably the best roster Smash had ever seen. They really don't need to make cuts. Like there is very little reason to.

Also I don't see why so many people want to cut Corrin? Again, very little reason why they should cut him. He has a very unique moveset. I guess someone comes at me with the argument ''But he's another swordsman'' and i'm wonderingm what does that even matter when most sword users in the game are unique? That's honestly the dumbest complaint I have heard.

The reason is time. I'm fairly certain they don't cut anyone because they just want to or think they don't deserve to be there, it's always because certain characters just weren't as prioritized and weren't able to be finished in time.

Or in certain cases, just not an option any longer. I can imagine this could have happened with Snake, and obviously could happen to other 3rd parties in the future. Also limitations such as the 3DS Ice Climbers, we just can't know until we know.

As far as I know there shouldn't be any cuts, you are correct. We should, however, be just as prepared to accept that a few might not make it back in for whatever reason.

 

[papagenos]

Hey, if you guys could pick any veteran from previous smash games to main, how would you want them changed?

I really want Ness with an extremely quick Dair, that's half the reason why I play him in pm and secondary him in 64

I want little mac to be able to recover, its not cool hes weak in the air AND cant recover, pick one weakness both is too harsh. I pick recovery over being strong in the air because I understand why they did this, boxing gets power from the legs and you can't do that in the air, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to jump at all. give him a decent recovery.

I'd say give him something that builds his KO punch the way cloud can build limit, but im ok with that being clouds "thing" and mac instead has super armor. but still with cloud existing and basically having little macs gimmicks without as severe down sides is just cruel. let mac recover I mean he has to jump and punch just to hit his much taller opponents and he even is seen practicing with a jump rope so he should be able to jump! where the idea he doesnt jump came from I have no clue.

 

[Danpal65]

I want little mac to be able to recover, its not cool hes weak in the air AND cant recover, pick one weakness both is too harsh. I pick recovery over being strong in the air because I understand why they did this, boxing gets power from the legs and you can't do that in the air, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to jump at all. give him a decent recovery.

I'd say give him something that builds his KO punch the way cloud can build limit, but im ok with that being clouds "thing" and mac instead has super armor. but still with cloud existing and basically having little macs gimmicks without as severe down sides is just cruel. let mac recover I mean he has to jump and punch just to hit his much taller opponents and he even is seen practicing with a jump rope so he should be able to jump! where the idea he doesnt jump came from I have no clue.

I reckon all they would have to do is extend the distance his Up B travels by a smallish amount (maybe a little less than half his height? I'm not too sure) and that would actually have a surprising effect on his ability to recover and overall ability to stay alive.

 

[papagenos]

I reckon all they would have to do is extend the distance his Up B travels by a smallish amount (maybe a little less than half his height? I'm not too sure) and that would actually have a surprising effect on his ability to recover and overall ability to stay alive.

a little more on his general jumps and up B height and side B distance or allow him to jump/upB after it and he'd be golden. Hes fun he's over powered on the ground but he's hurt so bad by that recovery it's just too easy to gimp him and he's not THAT over powered on the ground when other characters exist who are overpowered in nearly all scenarios.

I get what they were going for, make him especially good in his element but with a huge weakness, however when other characters are just good through and through his "weakness" can't be that exploitable. Conversely you could make him even stronger in his element but that would make him far too strong in casual play, so I'd rather him just get his weakness balanced up a bit. They can just say he's been training for smash this time and has worked on his recovery! or something.

 

[Geno Boost]

i have a question does Boshi count as a Mario rep or a Yoshi rep or a 3rd party rep?
I noticed in the smash direct that announced Greninja that Waluigi had a Wario series logo but when the game was released he was listed with the Mario series trophies.
So which series would Boshi be listed in?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Here’s a game development exercise. Let’s say we are trying to break down the roster into existing character archetypes in order to decide what sort of characters would be something new to the series.

How would you breakdown each Smash 4 Character into character archetypes?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

(I completely hate this character)

Guess who I mained most of time at Smash4 ?... Yes,

Shoryuken got you too many times at early %s?

Man, some final smashes were really hurt by the 3DS version.

Which is why I'm glad the Switch version is going to be a single version, bring on the new and improved final smashers and Ice Climbers.

 

[PLATINUM7]

i have a question does Boshi count as a Mario rep or a Yoshi rep or a 3rd party rep?
I noticed in the smash direct that announced Greninja that Waluigi had a Wario series logo but when the game was released he was listed with the Mario series trophies.
So which series would Boshi be listed in?

Would be Mario but third party like Geno.

Also the directs have made mistakes with series symbols. For example, the US version of the 50 facts labelled Skyworld as a Zelda series stage.

 

[Radical Bones]

My poll now has 155 votes. Here is the top 24 characters, or, everyone who has had more than one vote:

• Bandana Dee (Kirby) 19
• Ridley (Metroid) 16
• K.Rool (Donkey Kong) 14
• Rayman (Rayman) 7
• Rex (Xenoblade) 7
• Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo Kazooie) 6
• ARMS Character (ARMS) 5
• Midna (Zelda) 5
• Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot) 4
• Lyn (Fire Emblem) 4
• Phoenix Wright (Phoenix Wright) 4
• Shovel Knight (Shovel Knight) 4
• Isaac (Golden Sun) 4
• Wonder Red (Wonderful 101) 3
• Waluigi (Mario) 3
• Daisy (Mario) 3
• Simon Belmont (Castlevania) 3
• Decidueye (Pokemon) 2
• Captain Toad (Mario) 2
• Ganon (Zelda) 2
• Professor Layton (Professor Layton) 2
• Brian (Quest 64) 2
• Dillon (Dillon's Rolling Western) 2
• Knuckles (Sonic) 2

PS tell your friends to vote.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

With talk of cuts, I thought of something.

The roster could launch with several characters missing but, and this is the clever part, they could release veterans as free DLC as part of an "on going support" type deal like they had with ARMS and Splatoon, with the paid DLC being new characters.

Only problem is, at the end of the day Nintendo is a business and ARMS and Splatoon were new IPs that needed the interest, Smash Bros... is the opposite of that.

Still, may be a good justification for Nintendo's paid online.

 

[SuperMii3D]

My poll now has 155 votes. Here is the top 24 characters, or, everyone who has had more than one vote:

• Bandana Dee (Kirby) 19
• Ridley (Metroid) 16
• K.Rool (Donkey Kong) 14
• Rayman (Rayman) 7
• Rex (Xenoblade) 7
• Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo Kazooie) 6
• ARMS Character (ARMS) 5
• Midna (Zelda) 5
• Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot) 4
• Lyn (Fire Emblem) 4
• Phoenix Wright (Phoenix Wright) 4
• Shovel Knight (Shovel Knight) 4
• Isaac (Golden Sun) 4
• Wonder Red (Wonderful 101) 3
• Waluigi (Mario) 3
• Daisy (Mario) 3
• Simon Belmont (Castlevania) 3
• Decidueye (Pokemon) 2
• Captain Toad (Mario) 2
• Ganon (Zelda) 2
• Professor Layton (Professor Layton) 2
• Brian (Quest 64) 2
• Dillon (Dillon's Rolling Western) 2
• Knuckles (Sonic) 2

PS tell your friends to vote.

Ok, but where do I vote?

 

[DJ3DS]

5 cuts, eh?

 

[Radical Bones]

Ok, but where do I vote?

Here you go!

https://goo.gl/forms/ufLy7JOpLtFnVt6l2

Some interesting results so far... and only one Goku vote.

 

[T-Hell]

Since Bewear is about as significant in the anime as Jigglypuff once was (and he's infinitely funnier, IMO), I don't actually find him out of the realm of possibility, even beyond my bias. He's been a popular character in regards to marketing, too. And in game, there's stuffuls and bewears all over the overworld. I think one of the primary things holding him back is that there's another fighting type Pokemon in the game, being Lucario. I personally think that they really have nothing in common and don't think they should impede on one another, but honestly, Bewear probably isn't happening


God I love Bewear lmao. Perhaps the most unintentionally dangerous thing ever, especially in the Pokemon universe.

Lmao I just looked it up on Youtube and he is definately funny in the anime xDDD Now I want him, but if he's not playable he will be a summon for sure.

Btw, something I don't think has been debated yet. What about victory themes? We've been having the same ones for two games in a row. Do you think they'll create new ones or just recycle once again the ones from Brawl? Personally I don't think there's need to make new ones, the ones from Brawl-Smash4 are perfect enough.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

best thing about that poll is it was already confirmed, and the leakers I read up on were right about this, so perhaps the game will come out at the end of the year as well, I’m already planning on going with my girl, Samus, hope she gets some overhauls, I wanma see a stronger projectile and physical game this time, she was mediocre at both sadly, I don’t wanna have the best of either but a little more oomph wouldn’t hurt, also hope they nerf defensive options next time, maybe brawl esque shield and rolls? weaker air dodges things like that, I don’t mind a defensive focus but that is way too strong

 

[mario123007]

3rd party character? Phoenix Wright. All day, every day. I'll support his inclusion for every Smash game until he gets in.

Will Capcom have a third rep to be in Smash?
To be honest, I don't think so, but I definitely rooting for him to be in Smash.

And I actually don't have any big third party character wishlist... most of the third party characters I wish to be in Smash are mostly in, now are just the Indie characters... like Shovel Knight and Shantae....

With Celeste, Golf Stor, Cave Story+ being a hit, even if the chance they have character in Smash is very very minor I won't be surprised if we get stage, trophy, items, representing some notable Indie games on Nintendo consoles.

Big chance to be in Smash for now are Crash and Rayman... to me at least.

I feel like Rosalina got in because of her space theme and Sakurai liking space and being inspired by Rosalina and the Lumas. Pauline...I don't see the inspiration for Pauline. Plus, it will feed the theory that Sakurai simply doesn't like the Mario sports and party games.

Pauline's the mayor of New Donk City, so it's a bit guarantee that we will get a stage based on New Donk City.

I'd like to see the OG Pokémon Stadium from Melee and Saffron City from 64 return. Definitely Fountain of Dreams as well. I would say Miiverse as I loved all the goof pictures in the background as you played, but unfortunately that just is not possible anymore...

I would like a new stage based on Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as well, maybe Gormott or the Argentum Trade Guild or something?

I go for either Mor Ardain or Uraya.... Or even better... Leftheria
I mean that region even has floating islands it is perfect for being a Smash Bros stage.

The fact that we can go to the official smash website and see the exact same thing we saw 1 week ago is pretty saddening. I just want news. I would take Luigi's nose at this point.


As for stages, I would love Noctiulum from XCX. I dont have the highest opinions of XCX, but I loved Mira and its music.

I prefer XCX music more. Playing Smash Bros while listening to "Black Tar" or "CODENAME X" will be awesome!

Nice looking new op. Though it reminds of just how little info we have so far. >.>

Looking back at the website, I'm reminded how we haven't gotten the newcomer art for Inklings yet. The ones where they brought in the original artists to do a piece of art. Those were always fun. Especially the 3rd parties. I hope that comes back as well whenever that site actually starts to have info on it.

If Rex and his Blades gets into Smash, I want an artwork poster of Rex, Mario, Shulk, and other Nintendo character by Saitou.

Also has anyone discuss about what could the new Smash Bros Switch title might be?

This is just a mere guess based on me checking Thesaurus by typing "fight"... and from the terms I saw... Brawl and Melee were there...

So here are other terms that I think can fit for a title:
Affray
Battle Royal
Clash
Conflict
Duel
Feud
Fracas
Riot
Rumble
Strife<<<<<<<<My most fav pick
Tiff

The strike though are the ones that I don't think it will be good... bold are the ones I think it's highly possible...
So,
Super Smash Bros Clash... Super Smash Bros Fracas.... Super Smash Bros Riot... Super Smash Bros Strife... all sound pretty good to me

 

[T-Hell]

So since all us are assuming that E3 is gonna be a big blow out for the game, what do you guys we will get revealed at E3?

Like number character reveals, game modes, etc

I'm pretty sure we will get an official gameplay trailer, the official game title and a definitive launch date.
We'll see a lot of veterans in action in that trailer, along with the returning Ice Climbers, a Nintendo newcomer, and a third party newcomer.
That's my bet.

 

[Deleted member]

I can´t choose 5 characters I want cut, so I won´t.

I like that attitude. I want no characters cut as well, I think everyone should stay.

I'm pretty sure we will get an official gameplay trailer, the official game title and a definitive launch date.
We'll see a lot of veterans in action in that trailer, along with the returning Ice Climbers, a Nintendo newcomer, and a third party newcomer.
That's my bet.

I think we will not only see one newcomer, but a newcomer in general. Ice Climbers is guaranteed, but you do not know when they will show them. I think they could show maybe even two third-parties, because trust me: E3 is a large Nintendo event. I think we will see a lot of veterans though.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also has anyone discuss about what could the new Smash Bros Switch title might be?

This is just a mere guess based on me checking Thesaurus by typing "fight"... and from the terms I saw... Brawl and Melee were there...

So here are other terms that I think can fit for a title:
Affray
Battle Royal
Clash
Conflict
Duel
Feud
Fracas
Riot
Rumble
Strife<<<<<<<<My most fav pick
Tiff

The strike though are the ones that I don't think it will be good... bold are the ones I think it's highly possible...
So,
Super Smash Bros Clash... Super Smash Bros Fracas.... Super Smash Bros Riot... Super Smash Bros Strife... all sound pretty good to me

Donnybrook.

I want it to be called Donnybrook because that just sounds ****ing stupid and I love it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Super Smash Bros Kerfuffle

But Smash Bros. Rumble sounds really good to me

 

[Staarih]

Btw, something I don't think has been debated yet. What about victory themes?

They probably are at the lower end of the spectrum when thinking about changes and the ones from Brawl work fine, but oh how I'd wish for individual victory themes (or at least some more diversity), guess that's more of a pipe dream lol. Rosalina's and Dark Pit's were refreshing and being from games where they actually originated from. Hearing the same Fire Emblem one for all six characters does get a bit repetitive.
Earthbound's Melee victory theme back pls

• Bandana Dee (Kirby) 19
• Ridley (Metroid) 16
• K.Rool (Donkey Kong) 14

Solid Top 3, I'll take it.
Oh, and voted.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

My five cuts:

As I've said before, I hate it when two of the same character is playable as different slots. You could merge Sheik and ZSS back with Zelda and Samus, but I also cut them because of their made up movesets.

 

[Deleted member]

What did I miss? 5 cuts?
and one of
I prefer no cuts at all but these are the characters I wouldn't care if they were gone.

 

[Geno Boost]

Why people say Excitebike is retro rep? The series is similar to punch-out series it's still going.
correct me if I am wrong but isn't a retro rep someone who haven't got his series a new game after the 64/SNES/NES/GB era?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Why people say Excitebike is retro rep? The series is similar to punch-out series it's still going.
correct me if I am wrong but isn't a retro rep someone who haven't got his series a new game after the 64/SNES/NES/GB era?

Don't the other games in the series revolve around other vehicles than bikes?

 

[Cosmic77]

Does every single game in a franchise have to be a hit for it to be considered one of Nintendo's heavy hitters?

Also, can I get a source for Warriors "underperforming?" I know the fanbase has been mixed on it, but i can't recall ever having seen solid sales data or how Nintendo reacted. A quick google search seemed to suggest the opposite, but I know that's hardly reliable.

Sorry for such a late response, but here.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/media-create-sales-week-43-2017-oct-23-oct-29.3159/

Switch version is ranked at 35. After only four weeks, both versions of FEW were being outsold by MK8D, ARMS, 1-2-Switch, New Leaf, and even MK7, a game that was over 6 years old. Sales were much kinder in NA and EU, despite the game launching one week away from Odyssey.

Fire Emblem is popular, but I hate this conception that it's become some massive, unstoppable success that rakes in money like there's no tomorrow. People usually only look at Awakening and Heroes when they that make that claim, and they completely overlook the sales of other games like SoV (which has sales closer to the pre-Awakening era) and Warriors.

I have nothing on the franchise, but it seems like a lot of people are giving it more credit than what's due. In terms of success, it's matching the Kirby series sales, and that's only when you look at the best-selling FE games. The series is still somewhat niche. Not NEARLY as much as before, mind you, but still niche compared to some of Nintendo's other franchises.

 

[MSmariosonic]

You know what's always funny to me?
People who want a certain character cut because that character was broken in a previous installment.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You know what's always funny to me?
People who want a certain character cut because that character was broken in a previous installment.

Yeah, it's almost as if it wasn't possible to nerf a broken character for them or something

 

[Deleted member]

Cuts? I'd prefer not to but if you ask me...
I dunno, it just feels like Sakurai is trying too hard to add female characters and is forcing them on us. Don't need to remove Bowser Jr. and the other Koopalings, just her so it doesn't feel like "diversity" is being forced :/
I think it's time we recognize Mario as a full blown Doctor. He may have left college during Brawl but it's clear he dedicated himself during Smash for 3DS and Wii U so I think calling him just "Mario" is a bit disrespectful since he has a PhD now.
I don't like the fact he has his hand in his stock icon, it ruins any sort of consistency in the roster and I don't think they can change this because it's integral to his character so the only way to fix this is by removing him conpletely.
I still don't know what was up with Sakurai when he decided to add Halo, that game was never on a Nintendo console, and the unreleased DS game doesn't count. I want a roster with jusf Nintendo characters, if I want to play as Halo I'll play PlayStation AllStars
Please stop feeding the furries' fetishes

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Btw, something I don't think has been debated yet. What about victory themes? We've been having the same ones for two games in a row. Do you think they'll create new ones or just recycle once again the ones from Brawl? Personally I don't think there's need to make new ones, the ones from Brawl-Smash4 are perfect enough.

I hope they remake the victory themes instead of reusing the same ones three times in a row.
I also wish they'd change series back to their themes from SSB64/Melee. all had better victory themes then.

 

[Geno Boost]

Don't the other games in the series revolve around other vehicles than bikes?

Only 2 games (and I played one of them) but the last game was about bikes