Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MasterOfKnees]

The Square Enix rep situation is pretty simple, Vergeben has heard from one of his main sources (previously implied to be the Simon/Snake/ICs/no cuts/Ridley at E3 one) that there's a 2nd SE character in the game, but he's not been given the character's actual name (similarly to when he was informed about the Gen 7 Pokémon). Later on someone who he's not regularly in contact with comes to him with a specific name, but because it's not one of his usual sources he's waiting for confirmation from his regular sources before sharing that name, as he's not comfortable putting his credibility on the line when he's not heard the name specifically from the people he trust.

The stuff he says about the box theory and DLC seems to me like it's just himself trying to connect the dots, he has a bit of an unfortunate habit of mixing speculation into his actual information, which has created a bit of confusion in the past. It's not that the name he's heard is controversial either, he just doesn't want to potentially damage his credibility as there are a lot of people just waiting to cut off his head at his first slipup, so given the name doesn't come from someone he knows is credible for sure he's keeping it to himself for now.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If I remember Verg said he wasn’t sure about K. Rool? Two of his sources reported conflicting info

Loz’s source iirc leaked K. Rool but was also smoked out afterward, shortly after Loz started saying Skull Kid. If the “fake info trap” Sakurai is pulling is true, Skull Kid may have been the trap.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

It ain't happening. He's already shown as an assist trophy and he's staying that way. Game is also too late in development to change anything at this point.

Jesus Christ I don't even see people this desperate or in denial for freakin Shovel Knight...

People said the same thing about Ridley a mere four months ago.

Sakurai outright said he was too big and was best suited as a stage boss. Suddenly a bunch of fans get all up in arms, Nintendo and Sakurai see their wallets, and things start to change.

And I said DLC. No crap it’s too late in the base game. I’m saying he has a chance at DLC. The “assist trophies can’t be DLC” rule doesn’t exist. It’s just an assumption fans made up, like how Cloud can’t be in Smash because FFVII was never on Nintendo.

And get those condescending emotes outta here.

 

[Will]

So it means Sakurai looked at Waluigi and said "nah" with knowing he'll get backslash. He did it twice before, why this time would be any different?

There wasn't any backlash in 2014, it was just disappointment. People a little too dedicated to Waluigi are only mad because .

 

[Over9000BPM]

Ehhhhhh it depends how far Prime 4 is in development really, because Sylux is confirmed to appear in it and would likely get a more fleshed out boss fight than Hunters

There's no stigma, just babies whining about how Dante wouldn't be *insert character said baby wants*

Sylux is in Prime 4 Whaaaaa?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It ain’t happening. Sakurai’s already said Ridley is

People said the same thing about Ridley a mere four months ago.

Sakurai outright said he was too big and was best suited as a stage boss. Suddenly a bunch of fans get all up in arms, Nintendo and Sakurai see their wallets, and things start to change.

And I said DLC. No crap it’s too late in the base game. I’m saying he has a chance at DLC. The “assist trophies can’t be DLC” rule doesn’t exist. It’s just an assumption fans made up, like how Cloud can’t be in Smash because FFVII was never on Nintendo.

And get those condescending emotes outta here.

So you think they're just gonna completely remove Waluigi as an assist if he's made DLC? Again too late for that.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If I remember Verg said he wasn’t sure about K. Rool? Two of his sources reported conflicting info

Loz’s source iirc leaked K. Rool but was also smoked out afterward, shortly after Loz started saying Skull Kid. If the “fake info trap” Sakurai is pulling is true, Skull Kid may have been the trap.

So are you saying that Skull Kid's Not in? (I really wouldn't Mind If that were the case. The only Zelda Character I want Is Impa)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay, some of you answered the first question and the responses have been pretty reasonable, now for the second question.

Why Dante as a third-party character?

Just curious.

That, and the ridiculously large moveset potential. He could use a regular, sword and guns, a grappling hook, an electric guitar that shoots electricity, an ice mace, Devil Trigger and all it entails, etc.

 

[Potato_]

Okay, some of you answered the first question and the responses have been pretty reasonable, now for the second question.

Why Dante as a third-party character?

Just curious.

Okay, I'll make the argument:

- One of Capcom's biggest names, and a big name in gaming as a whole.
- Crazy amounts of moveset potential with Devil Trigger and all the other weapons he uses. Gameplay wise you could make him very interesting with an aerial combo focus (Yes I know you're afraid of another Bayo situation, but I'm going to hope Sakurai doesn't overload his kit.)
- Personality is great, Smash lacks a character like him.
- As a series Devil May Cry has a ton to offer Smash in costumes, AT's, and stages. Plus you could have Vergil or Nero as an echo.

Could you pick another series over his? Sure, but I still think Dante's a good choice.

 

[Ryuuma]

I’m just playing with you

I feel like if nintendo starts to introduce MRPG characters in the game, Paper mario probably will be the first.

 

[Deleted member]

Aren't you the guy who wants a call of duty character to get in

Call of Duty is deserving™ of a slot because it's Popular in Japan™, it's had games on Nintendo™, and is the last big icon™ remaining.

Am I doing it right?

 

[Paperchampion23]

Is there like... some stigma against Dante or something? Why would there be some negative reaction to him if he was in?

Which makes literal zero sense because he was Bayonetta before Bayonetta was...Bayonetta. I personally love Dante

 

[MasterOfKnees]

If I remember Verg said he wasn’t sure about K. Rool? Two of his sources reported conflicting info

Loz’s source iirc leaked K. Rool but was also smoked out afterward, shortly after Loz started saying Skull Kid. If the “fake info trap” Sakurai is pulling is true, Skull Kid may have been the trap.

The information about no DKC newcomers was something Vergeben asked Loz18 about in a PM because he heard it from lupensko, who was a wannabe leaker on Twitter. It was never supposed to get out into the public until Loz18 just threw it out there for no reason whatsoever (attention most likely). It never came from one of Vergeben's regular sources, who never informed him about K. Rool one way or the other.

 

[Pakky]

That, and the ridiculously large moveset potential. He could use a regular, sword and guns, a grappling hook, an electric guitar that shoots electricity, an ice mace, Devil Trigger and all it entails, etc.

He can also slow time I think...?

Also, there's a suitcase that can become anything or something like that.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

This is something that has been covered, and yes, it could work the normal way anyway. By normal I mean, organized by number.

However, if the box art was going to change drastically, why wouldn't they just design it in-order anyway? Why separate them into groups of 9 in the first place if they were only going to use it as a placeholder? Why create a random pattern that they weren't going to use anyway?

This is why, to me, there's more to this box art then is being let on. The fact that it's broken up into groups of 9 still implies that Ken, or some other character that would be between Palutena and Cloud is present. There could be some sort of explanation that we simply don't know, but all things considered I have the feeling there's a reason for the design to be the way that we've seen it.

It's a placeholder image, yes. But why create a fake placeholder that specifically includes two blank spaces? If you're trying to especially conceal information, why leave any blanks? Why not have a full side, in order from Mario to Snake, on the visible side of the placeholder image?

These are a ton of what-ifs, and we could throw them around all day. The only thing is that the "groups of 9", Verg, and even the website make sense if placed together.

That's pretty much all we have aside from hypotheticals at this point.

Thanks for this, I was busy doing some work :/

The fact that a particular pattern was chosen, over simply listing them all by six actually screams to me this isn't just a placeholder.

So yeah his point, to me at least, actually is in favor of keeping this box pattern in mind. It could lead to something, and it totally couldn't. But the fact that there was an easier pattern does not dismiss it at all.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Okay, some of you answered the first question and the responses have been pretty reasonable, now for the second question.

Why Dante as a third-party character?

Just curious.

Well, he's pretty recognizable.

Not to mention he's owned by Capcom which boosts his chances slightly.

And he's the Ryu to the hack and slash genre.





Oh and he's cool

 

[Will]

So you think they're just gonna completely remove Waluigi as an assist if he's made DLC? Again too late for that.

I mean
[insert isabelle]

 

[Chrono.]

Yup, and additionally he never knew about K. Rool or nearly any of the echoes.

Vergeben doesn't have everything, and that's great.

Honestly I feel the writing is on the wall here.

Incineroar and Ken round up the base roster, whoever the 2nd Squeenix character is one of the DLC frontrunners alongside maybe characters like Bandana Dee or Shadow.

 

[Idon]

Okay, some of you answered the first question and the responses have been pretty reasonable, now for the second question.

Why Dante as a third-party character?

Just curious.

I'd rather Dante than Bayonetta, but now that she's in, I doubt Sakurai's going to add him

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I mean
[insert isabelle]

Difference is they were from Sm4sh. We're talking about Ultimate here.

Not comparable.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay, I'll make the argument:

- One of Capcom's biggest names, and a big name in gaming as a whole.
- Crazy amounts of moveset potential with Devil Trigger and all the other weapons he uses. Gameplay wise you could make him very interesting with an aerial combo focus (Yes I know you're afraid of another Bayo situation, but I'm going to hope Sakurai doesn't overload his kit.)
- Personality is great, Smash lacks a character like him.
- As a series Devil May Cry has a ton to offer Smash in costumes, AT's, and stages. Plus you could have Vergil or Nero as an echo.

Could you pick another series over his? Sure, but I still think Dante's a good choice.

Virgil and Nero really don't suit me as echoes, Virgil is a more refined swordsman and Nero has that grabby hand which is fun to use. Though V changed it for multiple different arms

 

[SonicMario]

Actually I beg to differ.
We all know that if Incineroar and Ken are the last two newcomers, that leaves us with a Smashdown-perfect 72 slots.

If that’s how base-game ends up, I wouldn’t be surprised to see DLC take us to the next Smashdown-perfect number, 84.
Combining at least a year and a half’s worth of uniques and echoes, 12 characters sounds like a reasonable final number.

I’d reckon the breakdown will be...7 uniques and 5 echoes.

I think Smashdown doesn't necessarily show the final number must be divisible by 2,3, and 4. As you may have to account for the mode being used even if they haven't unlocked all the characters yet. I think either the game ends when there are more players then characters left. Or players get eliminated until the last 2 or 3 are left (When it's a full 4 player Smashdown anyway, though it's possible Smashdown may force 4 players and have to include an AI even if you only have 2 or 3 players). Though it's reasonable to think that at least base game wise they may want that perfect number of 72 working for that. But I just don't know if I can see the game's roster tied to one specific mode.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So you think they're just gonna completely remove Waluigi as an assist if he's made DLC? Again too late for that.

They’ll either have Assist Waluigi just not be able to be summoned when you’re playing as Waluigi, or leave it the way it is and not care.

 

[Will]

The whole thing about Incineroar is that Verg never stated that it was Incineroar. Just "not Decidueye or Mimikyu".
Are we all of a sudden forgetting someone else who could show up

 

[Buzzwole]

I mean
[insert isabelle]

Smash Ultimate is a new game. Characters getting promoted from assist to playable in a new installment of the game is not the same thing as them removing an assist trophy from a game in an update in order to make them playable.

 

[SSB4Dojo]

My biggest hangup on the box theory is that means in the first half of reveals, we got 9 fighters and only have 2 remaining over the second half. That doesn’t seem like we are headed towards something epic. No reason to show king krool in the smash direct and do 8 fighters in the first 2 months and then 3 over the final 4. Just feels sakurai is not one to front load the fighters. We got robin, lucina, dark pit, shulk, duck hunt and bowser jr in those final 2 months before release of the 3ds version (yes some of them were hidden which won’t happen this time). Just feel sakurai is one to keep things held back but maybe he decided to change his thoughts this time.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Zack Fair as Cloud echo or riot.

 

[Ryuuma]

Guys we got cloud, bayoneta and snake.

"dosent fit in smash" is not a good point.

if the Dante guy is Sakurai friend, so Dante got a high chance.

 

[LetterO]

The whole thing about Incineroar is that Verg never stated that it was Incineroar. Just "not Decidueye or Mimikyu".
Are we all of a sudden forgetting someone else who could show up

Verge had just recently said that all his sources agree on Incineroar

 

[Iridium]

I think Smashdown doesn't necessarily show the final number must be divisible by 2,3, and 4. As you may have to account for the mode being used even if they haven't unlocked all the characters yet. I think either the game ends when there are more players then characters left. Or players get eliminated until the last 2 or 3 are left (When it's a full 4 player Smashdown anyway, though it's possible Smashdown may force 4 players and have to include an AI even if you only have 2 or 3 players). Though it's reasonable to think that at least base game wise they may want that perfect number of 72 working for that. But I just don't know if I can see the game's roster tied to one specific mode.

Just imagine doing Smashdown with only the original 8 or 12. That would be hype for me.

 

[Pakky]

Honestly, if the base game ends with Dante and Geno, I don't know if I can be mad or not.

I mean is it dumb to feel angry when everyone you wanted got in but like one or two?

Though if no Xenoblade for real, for real, I'm taken aback a little. Cuz it's weird.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Everytime says Waluigi still has a chance despite all evidence in being deconfirmed and too late in development to do such a thing. I lose a day in my life.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The whole thing about Incineroar is that Verg never stated that it was Incineroar. Just "not Decidueye or Mimikyu".
Are we all of a sudden forgetting someone else who could show up

In his most recent post today or yesterday he claimed that it will in fact be Incineroar specifically.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I feel like if nintendo starts to introduce MRPG characters in the game, Paper mario probably will be the first.

Nah Nintendo clearly cares more about the Mario & Luigi series these days. Maybe Fawful?

I HAVE SMASH!

 

[Chrono.]

The whole thing about Incineroar is that Verg never stated that it was Incineroar. Just "not Decidueye or Mimikyu".
Are we all of a sudden forgetting someone else who could show up

He just doubled down on Incineroar today.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Everytime says Waluigi still has a chance despite all evidence in being deconfirmed and too late in development to do such a thing. I lose a day in my life.

Everytime someone keeps responding to my posts saying the same thing even if I’ve already countered those points, I lose a day in my life.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

The whole thing about Incineroar is that Verg never stated that it was Incineroar. Just "not Decidueye or Mimikyu".
Are we all of a sudden forgetting someone else who could show up

He just confirmed it last night. I will probably be Greninja'd.

Edit: what I'd say? Well to make this post worth something....I'm ok with Inceniroar??? He'll at least have a unique fighting style....hopefully. He also has the potential to play just like Bowser which would be lame.

 

[Deleted member]

This is why Dante is a huge possibility
https://nintendoeverything.com/hide...bayonetta-in-project-x-zone-2-now-regrets-it/
And remember Snake only got added because Kojima asked Sakurai, so something like this happening again is very much possible.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

The whole thing about Incineroar is that Verg never stated that it was Incineroar. Just "not Decidueye or Mimikyu".
Are we all of a sudden forgetting someone else who could show up

Well, he just recently confirmed that it was incineroar. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77008096
As For Primarina, Assuming that Decidueye was in Pokken and That Incineroar Is Gonna be in Smash, I wouldn't be surprised If she was In Nintendo VS Capcom...
Edit: That last sentence was a joke. Don't take it Seriously.

 

[Murlough]

Is there like... some stigma against Dante or something? Why would there be some negative reaction to him if he was in?

Alot of people haven’t accepted that third parties are a part of Smash, yet.