Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Morbi]

Wow, it's been a hot minute (or a few years) since I've been back here. Just heard the news and I can't say that I'm not excited for speculation season to start up again! I'm glad to be back!

I had not realized how much I missed it until that announcement came. The weirdest part is that it feels literally no different from a few years ago. Thankfully it IS and we only have about 9 months or so before we get to play it. I doubt there are going to be any droughts. Well, maybe now until e3, but whatever.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

My most wanted characters for Smash 4 were Lip, Inklings, Lyn, and Ray from Custom Robo. If Lip or anything Panel De Pon were to be added, I'd be pretty hype.

Ayumi Tachibana is one of my most wanted characters. I like the idea of a move set based on a japanese school girl/detective.

I want more characters that people never heard. Those always become the most popular characters in Super Smash Bros.

 

[Substitution]

I'm contractually obligated to like Excitebiker because I made a thread for him a year ago. It's in my signature.
No one posts in it and it's basically dead, but I'll be damned if someone takes it over who thinks things like Wario's Side-B should be taken out so Excitebiker will be in the game.

Not in my discussions.

 

[N3ON]

Tbh the two stages off the top of my head that I wanted most, a Splatoon one and a BotW one, are practically guaranteed now.

I hope we get Splatoon 1 Inkopolis though, it's my favourite design. But honestly the whole Splatoon aesthetic is pretty great, so I'll be happy with most options. Unless the stage is full of hazards. *shudder*

Also I still want Magicant on a console Smash.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As for stages I'd like to see, it's lowkeye insulting we don't have a Bowser's Castle stage yet

That or Bowser Land from 3D World.

 

[Chron]

You guys have to understand that with a new reveal, people of all ages are flocking in that have never even been on this site.

The whole "clones taking the place of other characters" is the simple minded equivalent of "If we evolved from chimps then why are there still chimps?"

It's a conclusion based on ignorance and a lack of understanding.

Your talking like they take no work at all though. There is still a lot of work involved in making clones that could be spent on new characters. Realize, that I'm not at all saying get rid of the clones. Roy and Falco are some of my favorite characters and I'm perfectly happy with the current new/clone ratio. All I'm saying is that, yes, clones do take lots off work.

 

[PixelSun]

I'm still dreaming about Travis being in a Smash title (besides mods).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Your talking like they take no work at all though.

No, I'm not.

There is still a lot of work involved in making clones that could be spent on new characters.

Masahiro Sakurai already explained to you that that's not true.

 

[Morbi]

Ayumi Tachibana is one of my most wanted characters. I like the idea of a move set based on a japanese school girl/detective.

I want more characters that people never heard. Those always become the most popular characters in Super Smash Bros.

Honestly, this time, I barely care about the roster. I am more concerned about Ganon and Lucina than newcomers as I only wanted Inklings and Spring Man. They were confirmed well before this game was announced and would likely have been two of the added characters if this game was a port. So, in that regard, I actually want some weird characters I have never heard of because I am already set.

 

[Cyn]

Tbh the two stages off the top of my head that I wanted most, a Splatoon one and a BotW one, are practically guaranteed now.

I hope we get Splatoon 1 Inkopolis though, it's my favourite design. But honestly the whole Splatoon aesthetic is pretty great, so I'll be happy with most options. Unless the stage is full of hazards. *shudder*

Also I still want Magicant on a console Smash.

New Pokefloats or bust.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sad no one mentions Excitebike Racer. He was an assist trophy in Brawl after all. The way I see it, an actual biker character would be great. Sure we got Wario and all, but he just uses a bike for one move. A biker character like Excitebike Racer could have great potential, and would be a nice retro character.

Also Issac, Crash Bandicoot and Bandanna Dee please!

He seems like a unique fighter on paper, having a motorcycle and what not, but I really don't think there is much potential beyond that.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I would be so down on anything related to Doshin the Giant.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I would be so down on anything related to Doshin the Giant.

Being a giant is kind of essential to his character so I doubt it. But, definitely an Assist Trophy. Or better yet a stage.

 

[Deleted member]

As for stages I'd like to see, it's lowkeye insulting we don't have a Bowser's Castle stage yet

I guess the reason why is because Bowser got tired of people making a mess in his castle.
Either way, I am confused. Did they simply forget or think one would be not necessary and too hard to make? I am confused indeed, we need a Bowser castle stage for Smash for Switch. Lava, spikes, Thwomps, Bowser statues! Perfect for a Smash Brothers casual stage of stage hazards!

New Pokefloats or bust.

She gets it.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Being a giant is kind of essential to his character so I doubt it. But, definitely an Assist Trophy. Or better yet a stage.

Would not be an issue. He grows on love, and shrink with hate.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Studiopolis Zone or Casino Forest anyone?

 

[Chron]

Masahiro Sakurai already explained to you that that's not true.

“When adding a clone character, I skip some of the animation, but work on balancing is not decreased at all. Break the Targets, Trophies and more still need to be made.”

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Would not be an issue. He grows on love, and shrink with hate.

Now that's an interesting idea for a fighter if I ever heard one.

 

[Morbi]

I guess the reason why is because Bowser got tired of people making a mess in his castle.
Either way, I am confused. Did they simply forget or think one would be not necessary and too hard to make? I am confused indeed, we need a Bowser castle stage for Smash for Switch. Lava, spikes, Thwomps, Bowser statues! Perfect for a Smash Brothers casual stage of stage hazards!

She gets it.

Maybe they figured that because we get two or three of them every single Mario Kart game, they would just leave the concept on the back-burner.

 

[Substitution]

I second the giant man.
He gives hugs and is friends to all.

He seems like a unique fighter on paper, having a motorcycle and what not, but I really don't think there is much potential beyond that.

Well I'm obligated to so uh...
Look in Smash we have characters like ROB. The fact they were able to do anything, much less an entire moveset with the toy that collects dust is amazing.
Hell most of the retro reps is the dev team winging it. Mr. Game and Watch is in the same boat, probably argue Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt Dog as well.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I didn't say they don't take work to make.

I said that Masahiro Sakurai said that clones do not take time away that could have been spent on new characters.

That's the end of this conversation about clones.

 

[NintenRob]

Excitebiker is actually my choice for new retro character

I at least expect a stage.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well I'm obligated to so uh...
Look in Smash we have characters like ROB. The fact they were able to do anything, much less an entire moveset with the toy that collects dust is amazing.
Hell most of the retro reps is the dev team winging it. Mr. Game and Watch is in the same boat, probably argue Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt Dog as well.

All of those characters you mentioned all have endless potential that anyone can blatantly see, so I'm not sure why you're comparing them to ExciteBiker.

Also your description of ROB is disingenuous. He's a ****ing ROBOT. A child could make a move set out of that.

 

[Morbi]

I second the giant man.
He gives hugs and is friends to all.


Well I'm obligated to so uh...
Look in Smash we have characters like ROB. The fact they were able to do anything, much less a gimmick with the toy that collects dust is amazing.
Hell most of the retro reps is the dev team winging it. Mr. Game and Watch is in the same boat, probably argue Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt Dog as well.

In my opinion, ROB basically contributes nothing, and Game and Watch was a good idea that wore out its welcome long before Brawl was ever announced. So, if that is what I can expect out of Excitebike, that is going to be a hard pass.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Now that's an interesting idea for a fighter if I ever heard one.

Indeed, I made a support thread for him.
Crazier things have happened. I mean, there was that guy who dreamt of the Duck Hunt Dog for years, and he got his wish.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

In my opinion, ROB basically contributes nothing, and Game and Watch was a good idea that wore out its welcome long before Brawl was ever announced.

How?

Indeed, I made a support thread for him.
Crazier things have happened. I mean, there was that guy who dreamt of the Duck Hunt Dog for years, and he got his wish.

Well, to be fair, that was a best selling game.

 

[Lord-Zero]

That or Bowser Land from 3D World.

I’d like to see Super Mario Odyssey’s version of Bowser’s Castle instead.

 

[PixelSun]

Excitebiker is actually my choice for new retro character

I at least expect a stage.

I guess it will be like the one in Super Smash Bros. Crusaders where the bikers are actually hazards.

 

[TimidKitsune129]

I've longed for a Bramble Blast stage ever since I played Donkey Kong Country 2.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

How?


Well, to be fair, that was a best selling game.

The problem was really the fact that Doshin was never released in North America... Only Japan and Europe (for once.)

 

[BluePikmin11]

This is mostly a copy-pasta from Nintenzone, but I am going to share my new mindset regarding how I will speculate for Smash Switch. This is the appropriate section to post this kind of content after all. I may or may not be contradictory, but I will just list everything that comes to mind:

1. Ever since I was gone from this boards, my main interest for the past two years has been consuming anime and manga. Video games have been less of a focus for me. I am more of a person that would rather use my time to watch character-driven stories over gameplay now, playing less Switch games over time.

2. The last Switch game I played was Xenoblade Chronicles 2. I am only at Chapter 8 as of now and it has been months since I last played it. Personally, I have been pretty disappointed not by the story or gameplay, but how the character progression and development is done. I think that aspect falls flat compared to XC1's characters. As interesting as Rex and Pyra would be as playable Smash characters gameplay wise, I have less of a desire to see them in the game. (Also, I have been pretty disappointed with the fanservice. As cool as it is to see Nintendo be riskier with lewdness, the fanservice is too minimal in the story. As someone that loves fan-service in anime now, it makes me disappointed. ;_;

3. I do not think strongly of Sakurai's mindset of choosing new characters and cuts anymore. Despite gaining an large understanding of Sakurai back in Smash 4, how each character is chosen does not get me as excited as before. The criteria of relevancy and business being a somewhat major part of character selection puts a bad taste in my mouth now, but since it is still an important part towards speculating the right characters, I will still have to keep it in mind. Although, I will not hold those factors as highly as before.

4. I cannot look positively towards the way gaming business is handled anymore, my viewpoint with the gaming industry is tainted now due to business practices over the past years like lootboxes. I have somewhat of a similar negative viewpoint with Nintendo, but at this point, I just want to see Nintendo do good and nothing more. I do not care as much in catching up with the latest Nintendo news to see what potential candidates could come to Smash as a result of new games.

5. One thing I can still give Sakurai credit for is choosing candidates based on gameplay potential. It makes speculating much easier for me. The only things I have to think about when speculating is success, relevancy, popularity, and moveset potential. Though, I will not be looking into the nook and cranny as much as you guys. If I have to dig deeper, I will just ask you guys for help. I won't be making fan-made move-sets, but I will simply observe the character traits to see if they have potential and think nothing beyond that.

6. I still think Sakurai is going to pull out several wild-card choices. Even feeling somewhat confident with my speculation roster:

I still think Sakurai will surprise me. Even vouching heavily for Bayonetta in Smash years ago, with the massive third-party support for Switch and the successes of several Nintendo games, Sakurai has a colossal massive selection of choices he could do to throw off speculation by 180 degrees. Though no matter who he chooses, I do not think he will surprise me as much as Cloud being in Smash. I could be wrong though, and he might break the rules like a wild animal and pick Goku or even Master Chief for all that we know.

7. I will not be speculating newcomer clones. That category has too many uncertain factors, and I am afraid of the clone arguments that could ensue. With them being more of a last minute deal, I feel wanting to be right about speculating the right clones would lead in return less of a satisfying self-bragging reward with the inevitable negative reception they will receive when the final roster is leaked and revealed. This is more of a personal preference than anything else.

For me as a speculator, I will just be more of an observer passing by to discuss occasionally when the time is right. I have too many personal matters IRL to be caring about Smash as a #1 priority. Anime/manga and studying for a future career is enough things on my shoulders as it is.

 

[Substitution]

All of those characters you mentioned all have endless potential that anyone can blatantly see, so I'm not sure why you're comparing them to ExciteBiker.

Also your description of ROB is disingenuous. He's a ****ing ROBOT. A child could make a move set out of that.

The plastic toy, a monochrome stick figure, a dog with a duck, and two eskimos have endless potential, as opposed to the man on a bike?
Like I remember when people argued Little Mac had zero potential because there was nothing you could do with a man who punches a lot. And the boxer archetype is a standard for fighting game characters.

So no, I don't see the thing anyone can blatantly see. And I adore the retro reps so clearly I'm missing something here.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

ExciteBike would work much better as a stage than a character in my opinion. The only reason I even consider him is because he weirdly had a made from scratch model in Smash for Wii U/3DS. Kind of foreshadowing like Pit was in Melee.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Ups, forgot Falcon, Doc ,and Rosa.
Olimar does use Pikmin to fight in Smash and his game though.
Peach: https://www.mariowiki.com/Super_Princess_Peach

Well, Olimar doesn't fight himself in Pikmin.
That Peach game is lost to time my dude. I don't think anyone counts that as a main series game.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Your talking like they take no work at all though. There is still a lot of work involved in making clones that could be spent on new characters. Realize, that I'm not at all saying get rid of the clones. Roy and Falco are some of my favorite characters and I'm perfectly happy with the current new/clone ratio. All I'm saying is that, yes, clones do take lots off work.

Ok. . .they take work.
But in the history of smash, no full clones has ever taken away "work that could be spent on other characters."

Unless you count balancing I guess, but let's be honest a very small minority genuinely care for that. No one has missed the cut because of clones. I already gave you the quote for that.


Y'all better not be ****ting on my boy ROB. He's a super duper robot with lasers. AND HE'S THE GODDAMN ANCIENT MINISTER. HE MISSES HIS KIND

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The plastic toy, a monochrome stick figure, a dog with a duck, and two eskimos have endless potential, as opposed to the man on a bike?

You are grossly (and deliberately) simplifying them. This is incredibly disingenuous of you.

 

[Morbi]

How?


Well, to be fair, that was a best selling game.

I mean... He is just a flat model lacking any detail and his move-set is completely incoherent and random (which is handled much better on Villager who actually has a play-style). It is annoying to play him because of the lack of frames and it makes it feel as though there is input delay as a result. He is far too gimmick with gusts of wind, RNG hammer, and a nearly useless tick counter except for when you could use it in doubles.

And ROB contributes a fidget spinner. I guess we could count fuel or the laser over time, but there are other characters/moves with those properties. 90% of his attacks are spinning arms or lasers. Basically Sonic fused with Fox with big blocky model to make you really immersed with the fact that you are playing garbage.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

If we don’t hear anything else till E3 that means there’s going to be a hell of a blowout of characters in the E3 Direct. Aside from that we’d only have a max of 6 months for character reveals up until release. The reveal schedule for characters this game is going to be absolutely bat ****...

Unless it gets delayed.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

The plastic toy, a monochrome stick figure, a dog with a duck, and two eskimos have endless potential, as opposed to the man on a bike?
Like I remember when people argued Little Mac had zero potential because there was nothing you could do with a man who punches a lot. And the boxer archetype is a standard for fighting game characters.

So no, I don't see the thing anyone can blatantly see. And I adore the retro reps so clearly I'm missing something here.

Actually, Little Mac is a photoshopped...

Wait who was it? It was Shulk right? No. Link or Robin? Pit? Ike?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I mean... He is just a flat model lacking any detail and his move-set is completely incoherent and random (which is handled much better on Villager who actually has a play-style). It is annoying to play him because of the lack of frames and it makes it feel as though there is input delay as a result. He is far too gimmick with gusts of wind, RNG hammer, and a nearly useless tick counter except for when you could use it in doubles.

And ROB contributes a fidget spinner. I guess we could count fuel or the laser over time, but there are other characters/moves with those properties. 90% of his attacks are spinning arms or lasers. Basically Sonic fused with Fox with big blocky model to make you really immersed with the fact that you are playing garbage.

I don't know how to respond to this. Can someone else help me? Because this is gibberish.