Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jetsurge]

Like Nintendo would announce a brand new Zelda game like only 3 months before it comes out.

Nvm the fact that itd interfere with Smash Ultimate as their big holiday game.

It's rumored to be a Link's Awakening remake or sequel similar to ALBW on the same engine on 3ds not Switch.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Kinda disappointed isn’t voiced by Alexis Tipton this time around

I need more Laura Bailey, so her voice clips being reused is something extremely acceptable to me

There was a problem fetching the tweet

https://twitter.com/NintendoBasics/status/1039264127728799745

was this ever talked about?

It will be now...and a Zelda game that could possibly be a 3DS or a mobile game....but more importantly Daisy in another main Mario game and Smash puns

 

[Draugen]

Is Loz actually banking on Isaac? He seems to be dry humping the Skull Kid bandwagon, but the only Isaac-related thing I've seen from him is the sunset tweet.

Am I very delusional if I saw that golden sun on Loz183 tweet and thought about Solaire of Astora, from Dark Souls, and Anor Londo? I know it's a strecht, but....

 

[Shroob]

For leaks like this, my school of thought is simple:


If you have the new Smash character, don't be a ***** and show it.


They never will, because they know Smash fans will ****ing tear apart ANY render they could possibly provide.

 

[SonicMario]

I do kinda have that strange feeling Shadow has a chance of not being in the base game... but his Assist Trophy might still be suspiciously missing. And thus once DLC echo fighters begin. He'll be one of the first. Echo Fighters have been received well for the most part, so I think there's a good chance they may push to make more echoes in DLC amongst all-new content as well.

They included Richter since for most outside of Japan he turned out to be a "Who?" for many and thus wouldn't exactly be a smart to make people pay for him. But Shadow on the other hand? There would be fans lining up willing to pay for him. If he's packaged in with Tails who's more of a unique/semi-clone in DLC, even better.

 

[Malkior7]

Right now I'd bank on Isaac as the reason why we still haven't got a direct date.

I would tread carefully with that statement some seem to not take it well.

Considering Isaac actually has a move that causes earthquakes I wouldn't be surprised if it was used to make his entrance. Like two groups go to duke it out and then earthquake happens and cuases a fissure between them and then camera pans to where the cause is and BAM Isaac Shakes it Up!. That would be pretty epic.

 

[Chrono.]

It's rumored to be a Link's Awakening remake or sequel similar to ALBW on the same engine on 3ds not Switch.

Keyword being rumored.

No reason to believe this is even that. Cause at that point is using rumors to justify other unrelated rumors that don't have anything going for it.

 

[CJ Falcon]

I remember someone complained that there was no poster art for any of the newcomers. Have any of y'all seen this?

Spoiler

Apparently it was posted on the official Splatoon Twitter accounts.

 

[Windstar]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

https://twitter.com/NintendoBasics/status/1039264127728799745

was this ever talked about?

The Zelda image is so bad.

 

[Jetsurge]

I would tread carefully with that statement some seem to not take it well.

Considering Isaac actually has a move that causes earthquakes I wouldn't be surprised if it was used to make his entrance. Like two groups go to duke it out and then earthquake happens and cuases a fissure between them and then camera pans to where the cause is and BAM Isaac Shakes it Up!. That would be pretty epic.

It could be Skull Kid instead or some other game but I'm 99% sure there was something earthquake/disaster related in the direct somewhere.

 

[Irarius]

My speculation on the remaining newcomers for Ultimate:

One thing that has me puzzled was Sakurai's language in the last direct. I thought in the June direct it seemed clear that were would be less newcomers than Smash 4 and Brawl (17 and 18 respectively). Right now we are at 8 newcomers with about three months until the game's release (and Sakurai confirming he plans to reveal every character before the game's release).

Will we within the last three months get a number of newcomers unveiled equal to what we have already have? Is there precedence?

Melee kept four unique newcomers and six clones hidden until very close to the game's release (Zelda, Mewtwo, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, and the six Melee clone newcomers). That is 10 versus 4 (what was known about for most of the pre-Melee speculation period). Brawl's original release was December 2007. In the last four months prior to December, they revealed Ike, Diddy Kong, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Lucas, King Dedede, Sonic, and likely Olimar (and Lucario, ROB, Toon Link, and Wolf were kept hidden until release). That is 13 versus five.

Things get different with Smash 4. After E3 2014 (of which there were only three months left until Smash 4's release), there already had been 11 newcomers unveiled. Of the remaining six newcomers not to be shown, two of them were echoes, and only three were kept hidden until the game's release (Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, and Dark Pit). The pattern changed with Smash 4.

Many would think the Melee/Brawl model would happen over the Smash 4 once since so few newcomers have been confirmed so far, and we have only three months until the game's release. Aside from the Direct this week, there really exists only one more opportunity for character unveils within Nintendo Direct's which would be the last Direct before the game's launch (assuming there is only one more Smash Bros. direct and not two more). Assuming we are guaranteed one fully unique fighter for this upcoming direct, how much does that leave for the final direct if we are just purely looking at precedence?

For Smash 4, the highest amount of newcomer confirmations happened during E3. During E3 2013, three newcomers were confirmed. During E3 2014, five newcomers were confirmed. However, during E3 2018, only two were confirmed, one of which was an echo fighter. This divergence from precedence (along with the lack of any new content for Ultimate being confirmed in nearly two months) was what was leading to the pessimistic thinking that there were only five more additional newcomers after Ridley's confirmation.

However, with the 8/8 direct we were in for a massive surprise, we had nearly double the amount of newcomers unveiled than what had already been confirmed so far, and this lead to expectations return back to traditional Smash Bros. newcomer number expectations.

So I think the most optimistic scenario for fully unique fighters, is one unique newcomer for later this week, and three unique fighters for the final direct (one at the beginning, one in the middle, and one near the end), Echoes will likely be sandwiched somewhere in there. There are three locks as far as I am concerned for echoes (Isabelle, Ken, Shadow). If there are four more unique newcomers, I surmise there is one more echo fighter as well to keep the amount of echoes and unique newcomers even. This would give Ultimate 16 newcomers total.

However, 16? That does not sound like a number for Sakurai have to pair down the expectations of his fans. Even if you point to the lack of fully unique fighters, it is still on par with Melee (which also only had eight unique fighters). Sakurai also still considers echoes to be new character additions. Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus all made their fans very excited just as any other normal newcomer confirmation would for a fully unique fighter. Sakurai also imparted his lessened expectations again after the confirmations of Chrom and Dark Samus. Chrom and Dark Samus, even though they are echoes, both possess unique animations (or at least more than the Melee clones had) Even if you look at Richter, a lot of his animations (taunts and victory animations, and even one of his idle poses) gives close homage to poses he made in artwork and ingame for Rondo of Blood. Sakurai and his team are trying to stay true to these characters even if they are in the category of the most cloney of clones.

What then does the most pessimistic scenario look like if the most optimistic is another eight newcomers? Personally, I see the lowest range being five newcomers (that number includes both unique fighters and echoes). This number happening hinges upon whether there is a newcomer shown later this week or not. In the event there is not, the worst case scenario would be that there are only two fully unique fighters left in the game (a Pokemon newcomer and one out of Skull Kid or Geno). The remaining three newcomers would be Isabelle, Ken, and Shadow. A number of 13 newcomers is less than the last three Smash Bros. games and definitely a number Sakurai would want to warn his fans twice about in hoping to bring down fan expectations from traditional norms.

However, a range of only 5 to 8 does not seem that big does it? Well, it certainly does. Had Brawl only lost three more slots, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf all would have been gone from Brawl. Had Brawl gained another three slots Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario would have made it in. That number (3) could mean the difference of your fan favorite making it or being relegated to a non-playable role as a consolation prize.

Of the most pessimistic scenario, I see Isabelle, Ken, and Shadow happening, so that is three out of five to eight slots, leaving only two to five slots left to speculate about. However, I expect one of those remaining two to five slots to be a Pokemon newcomer (especially judging by how much Sun/Moon content we have already seen in this game), and that will probably be Incineroar seeing as he is the one tipped off by Vergeben. That leaves only one to four slots left.

That is where things gets very interesting. There have been two credible leakers for Smash Bros. this go around: Vergeben and Loz. Vergeben is claiming Isabelle, Ken, and a Pokemon newcomer (he has said one of his sources have said Incineroar). He says one of his sources says there will be a second Square-Enix character. Most likely this means Geno, however, there is also a chance this could be someone to represent Dragon Quest, which is by far the biggest Japanese developed franchise without any sort of representation in Smash Bros.

In the other corner we have Loz, who is only claiming Skull Kid (though he made all sorts of other dodgy claims for other characters that he would say two completely different things about). Skull Kid is the character that Loz is putting all of his leaker chips on, and is the only one he has been adamant on since the 8/8 direct.

In the most pessimistic scenario, this means Geno versus Skull Kid for the final slot. Personally, if there is only ONE slot left, it would be most likely Geno in this scenario.

For the most optimistic scenario (four more newcomers left), things look far rosier. Both Skull Kid and Geno end up getting in, leaving two slots in contention. One a fully unique slot, and the other an echo fighter slot. Anything goes for both of them. Bandanna Dee, Chorus Kids, Banjo-Kazooie, Isaac, and Elma would all be strong contenders for such a slot. For the final echo fighter slot, again, there would be many strong contenders. Dixie Kong, Funky Kong, Impa, and Octoling (and possibly some sort of dark horse very few see coming like Richter was) are all strong contenders for this.

In less than three months, dreams will be either realized or dashed. However, even if there is only five (or even less) newcomers left, it is not the end. The DLC for Smash 4 was Nintendo's biggest moneymaker as far as DLC for their games was concerned. Even the Mii Fighter costumes sold very, very well. With this in mind, I expect there to be even more DLC for Ultimate than there was for Smash 4.

As long as the character does not have a major non-playable role in Ultimate, this leaves your character of choice to continue to have the possibility of being playable in Ultimate. The last round of Assist Trophies reveals will be very interesting for this reason alone. So far there have been 40 Assist Trophies confirmed, out of 50+ (which is the number given by Sakurai himself). This means that there are anywhere from 11 to 20 Assist Trophies left to be confirmed. I assume quite a few of those though will be veteran Assist Trophies though.

Ultimate has 103 stages. Nearly double the amount that Smash 4 Wii U had even with DLC. However, with such a tremendous number, only four of these stages are new to the series (New Donk City Hall, Dracula's Castle, Great Plateau Tower, and Moray Towers). That is less than half the stages that even Smash 64 had, yet its very interesting to see very few complaints about this, and all the eyes still on whether the amount of newcomers left will be "satisfactory".

With characters, Sakurai has brought back every character to date, a very impressive feat. Even ignoring the newcomers confirmed so far, seven veterans have been brought back for Ultimate that were not in Smash 4 or its DLC (Ice Climbers, Snake, Wolf, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu, and Young Link). Only two of these seven fighters are like traditional clones (Pichu and Young Link), with the other five needing to have have their own unique animations be made for most of their movesets.

We are seeing the limit to just how many characters can enter a Smash Bros. game. Five to eight newcomers left is very, very impressive. Heck, even if there were less than five newcomers left, it would still be impressive.

The week ahead is going to prove to be absolutely essential for speculation. Even one newcomer confirmation for this week, can mean a ton going forward.

as i see it, we could see one new unique fighter next direct, one more before pokemon, two more right before the game launches and one-five more ( unique and echo) as hidden characters

i think that geno banjo isaac and incineroar got the best chances to be in 90% sure, aswell as shadow isabelle and ken 90% also

so i guess 7 until the game comes out AT THE VERY LEAST, and best case we get 3 in the last direct instead of two and maybe one or two more echos so we bump up to 10
now saying we get 2-3 more hidden echos and one unique fighter, then its rly nice

 

[SigmaMewtwo]

*Crack knuckles let's do this*

A Better version of Champion Cynthia's theme
Littleroot Town theme
Champion Iris theme

Gormott *XC2
Fonsett Village* XC2
Mor Ardain Roaming the Wastes *XC2
Torigoth *XC2
Argentum Trade Guild *XC2
(*=converts from day song to night song, based on the stages conversions from day to night)
Don't Worry XCX
Uncontrollable XCX
Wir Fliegen XCX
One Winged Angel (Please)
Frog Forest Sonic Heroes
Spagonia Rooftop Run (Day) Sonic Unleashed
Aquarium Park Sonic Colors
The Sun Rises (Okami)
Tama's Theme (Okami)
Orca's Theme (Okami)
Kushi's Ride (Okami)
Ryoshima Coast (1&2) (Okami)
Southern Ryoshima Coast (Okamiden)

As someone who just finished Okami for the first time recently, I agree with all of your choices, plus would add on this battle theme:

Of course, Amaterasu would be very unique in Smash, and I loved playing as her in Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

Also, solid choices for all of your music picks in general.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

as i see it, we could see one new unique fighter next direct, one more before pokemon, two more right before the game launches and one-five more ( unique and echo) as hidden characters

i think that geno banjo isaac and incineroar got the best chances to be in 90% sure, aswell as shadow isabelle and ken 90% also

so i guess 7 until the game comes out AT THE VERY LEAST, and best case we get 3 in the last direct instead of two and maybe one or two more echos so we bump up to 10
now saying we get 2-3 more hidden echos and one unique fighter, then its rly nice

Hidden characters are confirmed not to be a thing.

After announcing Dark Samus, Sakurai said every fighter will be announced before launch.

 

[Danpal65]

one-five more ( unique and echo) as hidden characters

Sakura said he'd reveal all characters before launch.

 

[Chandeelure]

This is interesting:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76988998

Apparently 3 Smash Blog posts were skipped.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, if Skull Kid is the next reveal, I personally am going to write off any character that would 'need' a homestage off until DLC comes around.

If Isaac isn't shown, I highly suspect that he's just not in, and our last newcomer shown before launch will be Geno.


This lines up with the "103" stages, and both Loz and Verg claiming characters that wouldn't even need a new home stage.

 

[google chrom]

Guys I'm so sad

https://twitter.com/ShuntaroFuruka

 

[Jetsurge]

Keyword being rumored.

No reason to believe this is even that. Cause at that point is using rumors to justify other unrelated rumors that don't have anything going for it.

I'm pretty sure they've been working on another top down Zelda game. They made ALBW and Triforce Heroes I don't think they'd stop.

 

[Arcadenik]

I gotta be honest.

Mods?

I think you're overstepping with the ''Discussing characters that have no chance in Smash." being grounds for warnings, closings, etc.

Why?

Because it's all fan based and arbitrary rules. While yes there's a severe likelyhood characters like Goku, Mickey Mouse, etc would not get into Smash.

You tow a fine fine fine fine fine line to the point that you're also forcing people to be closed minded in speculation as well.

''IT'S IN THE RULES~~~" is one of the worst things about this community when it comes to speculation, because those rules are stupid and made up and often change once Sakurai doesn't follow this made up rule book most of us have all placed on him.

I don't know I feel that rule is hurting speculation and conversation about the future of Smash and potentially an egg on your face scenario for the moderators as well.

It's just a little egomanical to go "WE THE MODS HAVE DEEMED THIS CHARACTER UNLIKELY SO NEVER SPEAK OF THEM AGAIN." because what stops you from deeming an actual video game character as unlikely and shutting down discussion of them?

I mean this happened in Smash 4 a lot.

''CLOUD STRIFE, ACTUAL GAMING ICON WILL NEVER BE IN SMASH. HE'S AMONG THE LIKES OF MICKEY AND GOKU. LULZ."

I had to fight tooth and nail to make people understand Bayonetta was a possibility from base game and was told she wasn't Smash Material. Look who is in Smash now and one of the most controversial topics about it.

So....I'm just....not about that rule. I'm REALLY not about that rule, because it's shutting down conversation based on whatever you personally see fit and based on made up things people put into the way Sakurai makes the game as well.

This is why I will use Goku or even Mickey Mouse as a means to an end if I have to.

Team Rocket Meowth from the anime for Smash!

Captain N from the cartoon for Smash!

Nester from the magazine for Smash!

 

[Arcanir]

Making an assumption..
Ike should have been 128.
Wolf should have been 127.
Dedede should have been 131.
Music post should have been 130.
Bowser should have been either 138 or 134.
Before Bowser, none were skipped.

Also by the way, this also debunks that Karate Joe leak that was floating around, the Rythym Tengoku memory should have been MINIMUM 135 if that was the case, yet the filenames in the "leak" place it at 134, which would have been occupied by Karate Joe's post (assuming he even got no trailer at all).

So following this, there are three slots that have been skipped correct? That's just enough space for one unique newcomer as each one has gotten a direct and character trailer while Simon and King K. Rool got memories. If the last is skipped like with Ridley and Inklings, it could be used for another update like music, but I'm banking more on a memory.

 

[RandomAce]

I remember someone complained that there was no poster art for any of the newcomers. Have any of y'all seen this?

Spoiler

Apparently it was posted on the official Splatoon Twitter accounts.

Tbh, it’s a lot less Splatoon Themed compared to some of the other artwork. We also don’t have any for Simon/Richter so far.

Also, is there even any possible Metroid/DK styles artwork? I know Metroid may have one, but DK definitely doesn’t.

 

[Irarius]

Hidden characters are confirmed not to be a thing.

After announcing Dark Samus, Sakurai said every fighter will be announced before launch.

we do this now the fifth time man, and you still believe sakurai? the man said dont expect mayn characters, tons are revealed,
the man said ridley impossible, revealed, the man says alot, DONT BELIEVE HIM, i thought ppl started thinking

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

https://twitter.com/NintendoBasics/status/1039264127728799745

was this ever talked about?

Fake.

That Zelda logo is some trash.

 

[Zinith]

Guys I'm so sad

https://twitter.com/ShuntaroFuruka

Did he really just do that? ****ing hell

 

[Jetsurge]

This is interesting:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76988998

Apparently 3 Smash Blog posts were skipped.

There isn't always 2 blog updates a day, we only get one most of the time. The only recent day without any blog updates was Friday.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Guys I'm so sad

https://twitter.com/ShuntaroFuruka

Welp it will be a matter of time when the direct character(s) are leaked

Atleast it proves they haven’t forgotten the direct since this pretty much proves it that smash trailers are in the direct

Edit: oops it’s not real

 

[Jetsurge]

Guys I'm so sad

https://twitter.com/ShuntaroFuruka

Edit: Wait lol fake account. Facepalm.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Guys I'm so sad

https://twitter.com/ShuntaroFuruka

Check the Twitter bio.

 

[RandomAce]

Guys I'm so sad

https://twitter.com/ShuntaroFuruka

Did he really just do that? ****ing hell

Welp it will be a matter of time when the direct character(s) are leaked

Atleast it proves they haven’t forgotten the direct since this pretty much proves it that smash trailers are in the direct

Edit: Wait lol fake account. Facepalm.

You guys know this is a parody account... right?

This people, shows how DESPERATE we are.

 

[Chrono.]

You guys do know that's a parody Twitter right?

Why the heck would the Nintendo President tweet in English and hint at Skull Kid lmao.

 

[Shroob]

But yeah.


Like I said. The next reveal is going to make or break "103" being the final stage count to me.


Neither Loz or Vergeben's character hints have been characters that would need a stage, so if the next character doesn't need one, I'm honestly hard pressed not to say we wouldn't be getting Isaac/Banjo.

 

[Jetsurge]

This people, shows how DESPERATE we are.

Pretty much

 

[Q-Long]

I want some FF Tactics and FF CC osts on Midgar

 

[Idon]

I want some FF Tactics and FF CC osts on Midgar

I'd personally really appreciate Dissidia's remix

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Fake...That Zelda logo is some trash.

Doesn’t look trash though

I want some FF Tactics and FF CC osts on Midgar

2 songs from Final Fantasy 2 Smash game’s in a row...might wanna pray a lot

 

[Irarius]

out of interest now that most speculation got through and is at a stillpoint until we see the newcomer,
who is REALISTICLY making the game
no favoritism, just realistic
besides
geno, banjo, isaac, skull kid, incineroar shadow isabelle and ken, i mean those are the frontrunners i guess.

 

[Jetsurge]

But yeah.


Like I said. The next reveal is going to make or break "103" being the final stage count to me.


Neither Loz or Vergeben's character hints have been characters that would need a stage, so if the next character doesn't need one, I'm honestly hard pressed not to say we wouldn't be getting Isaac/Banjo.

It might not break the 103 count. They could reveal Skull Kid a character who probably wouldn't have a new home stage and we wouldn't know anything more about it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I remember someone complained that there was no poster art for any of the newcomers. Have any of y'all seen this?

Spoiler

Apparently it was posted on the official Splatoon Twitter accounts.

Whatever that is, it is gorgeous. And also, it's missing Pikachu.

 

[Shroob]

It might not break the 103 count. They could reveal Skull Kid a character who probably wouldn't have a new home stage and we wouldn't know anything more about it.

That's what I mean.

If the next newcomer is Skull Kid, then that means the last batch to be shown during a Smash Direct are probably Incineroar and Geno.



Skull Kid, Incineroar and Geno are basically the ONLY 3 non-echo characters that have been leaked by semi-credible sources, and none of them need stages.

 

[Starbound]

Guys I'm so sad

https://twitter.com/ShuntaroFuruka

Can people please at least click the links they post to avoid posting obvious fakes?

Like I don't think it's that hard.