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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Polan

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Really? King of Fighters is popular in Latin America? I didn't know that and I am Hispanic. :p
yeah it had (and still has) a big scene in countries like mexico and brazil. its why KOF has a bunch of Mexican and Latin American characters. It was SNK's way to acknowledge (and pander to) the large latin american fanbase.
So I'm a a Christian pretty common thing to be in Europe. Does that mean I need a Christian character to represnt us who prays before and after a battle? Of course not because that's irrelevant to smash which is a fun party game.
this is simon/richter erasure. seriously though let people have their fun. they aren't hurting anyone when they ask for more LGBT/minority fighters.
 
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Rocket Raccoon

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Probably but they were not included in Smash for Christian representation. They were included to represent Castlevania and because many fans wanted Simon Belmont in Smash for 10+ years.
They definitely 10000% were not chosen for it but I was making a counterpoint.
 

Nethermoosen

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Having representation in video games is really important, even in a game such as smash. allowing people to see and play as characters just like them in a video game is important to making people feel included and recognized in society!

Like, i bought the mass effect series solely because i heard you can have a gay romance in it. (little did i know it would be untill mass effect 3 before i could romance a dude as a dude but we got there eventually. :) ) Some might say that's a shallow reason for buying a game, but for me being able to play a gay character and romance a man was important to me, i didn't have to sit through a straight romance if i didn't want to, i could play the character in way that resonated with me. That's important to making LGBT romances become normalized and not seen as an aberration.

Of course that's just romance. even in games without romance subplots or such having characters be part of the LGBT spectrum is nice because it allows LGBT people to feel like a part of society, and not a misfit. Because if everyone else (AKA straight people) can be on TV, or in video games, why can't they?

I'm not a woman or a person of colour, so I can't speak from my personal experience for this when it pertains to race and gender representation, I don't have that background or experience, I can assume that it is something similar, but please correct me if i'm wrong, more people of varying demographics should discuss this if they feel comfortable enough.

This isn't focusing on smash bros specifically, just on why representation is important. Smash bros has an issue where it's suppose to bring together the greats of the video game world, and as it turns out the video game greats they bring in aren't all that diverse in some cases. The solution (IMO) to this is to prompt Nintendo to add more diverse main characters to their games, so that one day they too might make it in smash, and help bring more diversity to the table. : ), while also pushing for what diversity they do have so far to be showcased.

I know it seems weird to bring discussions of diversity into talk about smash, but video games and diversity ARE intertwined, and it is important to talk about these things. :)
I can see that. And I get it.
I play games for the less realistic things.

I play for magic, monsters, over-the-top crazy maneuvers, violence that doesn’t end in anyone getting hurt(because polygons are immortal).

For me(and I’m only sharing, not debating), playing a game that emulates what i could be doing in my own life, is super boring. Like I will never play a basketball video game, even though I play basketball. Because I can literally just do the real thing.

I don’t care about sexual or ethnic representation for myself, because I do that in my own life. Like, every character could be any gender/orientation/ethnicity combination but mine and I could not care less.

And that’s just because I play games to do something I realistically can’t ever do or be.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I think, in terms of Smash, how and what characters are chosen are perfectly fine and we should make the most of what we get. Video games that make their own OC should definitely have more LGBT characters and not having them be LGBT their whole focus. Like Tracer for example, the main event of her life was the time travel accident and not finding Emily.
Well tbf Blizzard isn't exactly doing it right as Emily isn't allowed to have a last name
https://youtu.be/k3r2wWOm-1Y
Wow Bowser's tough guy mechanic seems to be alot more useful now
Mid tier Bowser was a thing of beauty, let's see if we can surpass that with this
 

SpiralGalaxies

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I think, in terms of Smash, how and what characters are chosen are perfectly fine and we should make the most of what we get. Video games that make their own OC should definitely have more LGBT characters and not having them be LGBT their whole focus. Like Tracer for example, the main event of her life was the time travel accident and not finding Emily.
I can agree with this! When pushing for diversity i think the goal should be highlighting how important diverse characters are while also making a point that they should be characters and not a point for how a company can point at them and go "Look! We're inclusive! We have A Gay(Tm) character!" But at the same time it's important to push for diversity, so that more diverse characters can maybe make it into such crossover games if that makes sense.

See: Le Fou in the beauty in the beast remake. He exists so Disney could point at him and go "Look! A Gay Character! We're progressive!" when in actuality he was a big bowl of nothing.
 
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Misery Brick

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I'm Black and Hispanic myself. Can't say I care too much if game characters happen to be as well or not. A cool character means more to me than that, though a good design and come from any race. If it happens, cool, if not, then it's not a big deal.

That said I got into fighting games and platformers before anything else and they usually contain a wide variety of characters from all over the world. Tekken, Street Fighter, MK, KOF, Killer Instinct and so on. I guess you could argue other genre's don't have that.



Ok. Well there's others that don't mind it. So I'll just agree to disagree.
Yeah, I completely agree with this. And this is coming from a Hispanic kid btw.
Don't get me wrong, we definitely need more representation of a wider group of people in games and media in general and it'd definitely be great to see. Some statuses or traits shouldn't be considered the norm, only because it's presented through fiction as it.

However, if I'm being honest, it really doesn't mean anything in terms of likeability or relatability of actual characters. It just doesn't actually matter.
A well written, or in this case for Smash, or interesting character and design means much more than the race or the sexuality they are. Like for instance, Ike, Lucina, Shulk, Cloud and the rest of the other RPG protagonists. Them being a different race or different gender doesn't make them any more or less interesting to the players that are attached to them. It's the qualities of the character itself. Someone could have lesser represented traits, but just not be intriguing or even a likeable character. A single trait may pull in someone, but it definitely won't be enough to keep them sticking around.
You can even extend this to characters like :ultpokemontrainer:, :ultrobin, and maybe even :ultlink:. It doesn't matter if they're a certain appearance or skin color, or whatever. They still do a great job in personifying the player and making them feel that they're going on an adventure, and in the case of someone like Red who later became a canon character, as someone fascinating for fans of the series.

Like I said before, I do believe we desperately need various amounts of representation of different groups in media. And I hope that with this changing climate we get there, but for existing characters and even for Smash itself, they aren't quotas that need to be fufilled or met. But hopefully, they will be naturally.

Anyway, to steer from this topic to keep it more Smash related:
Anybody going to use their amiibo to unlock some characters right from the gate?
 

WaxPython

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Probably but they were not included in Smash for Christian representation. They were included to represent Castlevania and because many fans wanted Simon Belmont in Smash for 10+ years.

If Birdo was included in Smash, you can rest assured it will not be for LGBT representation and it will be because she got in based on her own merits (mainly SMB2 and many spin-off appearances)... that and because she makes an easy Yoshi Echo.
Yes exactly this. My point exactly either or not Simon Belmont is Christian is irrelevant he's in because he's a great character he wasn't included because he's Christian.

If an iconic character like Mario was black it would make 0 difference he would be included in thendurst smash because he's an iconic character skin colour makes no difference.

Nintendo needs to weigh up characters on their own merits not to feel pressured to include characters for the same of diversity.

If people want to think Ike is gay or whatever they can do that no problem but he's in it because he's in smash because great character in fire emblem not because he might be gay.
 
D

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He's the one I see come up the most along with King Hippo.

I'd welcome both. Glass Joe is probably the most infamous Punch Out character too (not counting... you know, Mike Tyson.)
What. About. Soda. Popinski.
SODA BLYAT.

 

WolfCypher

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Well they announced a direct last week for September 6th so that counts.
I meeeeeeean...there was no promise of Smash content, just assumptions. They didn't actually flat out say "yes, there is definitely a new Smash character trailer in this one, too."
 

DarkFalcon

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I think we've hit peak mad hours. We need news soon. If we don't the next topic will be about Smash and how it can implement the meaning of life in the next game.
 

Enchess

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Don't think it was directly stated as such, though it wouldn't surprise me.

If anything, they just use the Christian Iconography to fight off those filthy vampires and zombies.

Either way, I'm excited to throw holy water on Bayo and Bowser. :ultsimon:
It doesn't make much sense for them to use those symbols to fight if they don't believe in the mythology behind them. But then again, Supernatural tried to pull that with Dean literally sending demons to hell by reading the Bible but still believing it was all BS, so it's not impossible Simon is like that (not likely though)

The only character we can be confident in the religious feelings of is Shulk, who wants a world without gods and reminds the player repeatedly.

I think the point being made though is a lot of people who dont want representation talk about how it should be kept ambiguous, but ignore that for a lot of characters in the cast their gender, race, sexuality, and sometimes even religion are explicit. They just don't notice cuz it's like them or what they're used to.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I’m a member of the balding community. As a proud member who exposes my chrome dome every chance I can get, I expect equal representation that isn’t confined to yellow or pink blobs as I am neither.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Don't think it was directly stated as such, though it wouldn't surprise me.

If anything, they just use the Christian Iconography to fight off those filthy vampires and zombies.

Either way, I'm excited to throw holy water on Bayo and Bowser. :ultsimon:
The fact every character gets hit by Holy Water means they're all sinners, even the Christians. I did not expect political commentary on religion in my party game where there's like 5 full sentences
 

Knight Dude

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I forgot about Great Tiger. He's another really cool dude. Just like most of the Punch-Out!! cast.

I hope there's an Assist Trophy at least. Maybe one that acts like Brawl Mac.
 

Starbound

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However, I don't think it's too much to ask to see a character like myself shown.
Man I'd be so jealous if Smash gets a character like you in it.

Especially because no one IRL is actually has a character like themselves in it already, unless there are some Italian plumbers in the thread already.

None of us are princesses or princes of fantasy kingdoms or space warriors or dinosaurs or hedgehogs or turtles or kings of evil or vampire hunters or... you get the idea.

Smash is representing no one as a demographic and, as a result, it isn't obligated to represented anyone. I get the appeal of having characters like yourself (as an Indigenous person I'd love to see my people shown off as more than the token weird guy no one takes seriously), but Smash is not the game to push representation in because the game isn't about trying to replicate reality.

Once Nintendo starts adding more LGBT/BIPOC to their games, then we can hopefully have them added in Smash. And hopefully they've learned from the Soleil controversy to do it right this time.
 

nintenplayer

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Anyway, to steer from this topic to keep it more Smash related:
Anybody going to use their amiibo to unlock some characters right from the gate?
It's a cool feature, but personally I won't be using it. I want to fully experience the "fun way to unlock characters" Sakurai mentioned, and besides, I have my main from the get-go anyways so
 

Arcadenik

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yeah it had (and still has) a big scene in countries like mexico and brazil. its why KOF has a bunch of Mexican and Latin American characters. It was SNK's way to acknowledge (and pander to) the large latin american fanbase.
Ohhh yeah!

I noticed that! There's this character in Art of Fighting... his name was Robert Garcia. I thought he was a wealthy Spanish man... but SNK Wiki says he is Italian? Garcia doesn't sound Italian to me but whatever.

And the town, South Town, seems to be a pastiche of Mexico, South Florida (Miami Beach + South Beach), and East Asia (Japan and China).
 

Jim_Puff

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A bit off topic and hopefully a good way to talk about something sensible, but I am so pumped for the Castlevania music. Especially this track:


Like, this is a top tier banger right here
 
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Shroob

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I meeeeeeean...there was no promise of Smash content, just assumptions. They didn't actually flat out say "yes, there is definitely a new Smash character trailer in this one, too."
Yeah, but it's also the last general direct until December probably.

Nintendo has never skipped Smash **** in a general direct as far back as I can remember.


And then there's Friday's blogpost which just, never came.
 

WolfCypher

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Here's an attempt at a "game"...

Favorite Song in the Entirety of Smash
Favorite Stage in the Entirety of Smash

Song: Pollyanna/I Believe In You (the alt song from Melee's Onett)
Stage: Hyrule Temple

I think I would love Midgar, but I never got to play it much, cause I dropped Smash 4 before Cloud's DLC was a thing. But it really feels like a "me" stage.
 

Nethermoosen

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What's this about Bowser doing a thing and now he's top tier?

Definitely haven't heard that before :4yoshi:
The tough guy mechanic is looking dirty. He’s armoring through weak attacks much better, and that’s gonna be awesome against faster, weaker, safer attacks(aka the meta)
 

Knight Dude

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Yeah, I completely agree with this. And this is coming from a Hispanic kid btw.
Don't get me wrong, we definitely need more representation of a wider group of people in games and media in general and it'd definitely be great to see. Some statuses or traits shouldn't be considered the norm, only because it's presented through fiction as it.

However, if I'm being honest, it really doesn't mean anything in terms of likeability or relatability of actual characters. It just doesn't actually matter.
A well written, or in this case for Smash, or interesting character and design means much more than the race or the sexuality they are. Like for instance, Ike, Lucina, Shulk, Cloud and the rest of the other RPG protagonists. Them being a different race or different gender doesn't make them any more or less interesting to the players that are attached to them. It's the qualities of the character itself. Someone could have lesser represented traits, but just not be intriguing or even a likeable character. A single trait may pull in someone, but it definitely won't be enough to keep them sticking around.
You can even extend this to characters like :ultpokemontrainer:, :ultrobin, and maybe even :ultlink:. It doesn't matter if they're a certain appearance or skin color, or whatever. They still do a great job in personifying the player and making them feel that they're going on an adventure, and in the case of someone like Red who later became a canon character, as someone fascinating for fans of the series.

Like I said before, I do believe we desperately need various amounts of representation of different groups in media. And I hope that with this changing climate we get there, but for existing characters and even for Smash itself, they aren't quotas that need to be fufilled or met. But hopefully, they will be naturally.

Anyway, to steer from this topic to keep it more Smash related:
Anybody going to use their amiibo to unlock some characters right from the gate?
I got a Mega Man Amiibo. Guess I can unlock him early. Which is good since he's my main. The only Amiibo I got other than him is Samus so, lol.
 

StormC

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I am all for diverse representation in media, in all capacities. I absolutely believe in pushing more media out there with strong female characters, characters of rich racial diversity, LGBT characters, etc.

The problem is Smash can only work with what it has. Nintendo hasn't exactly exceeded in this department historically. Expecting a Japanese company to reflect the social progress of western culture is a surefire way to be disappointed. The root of the problem comes to Nintendo and their source material.
 
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Kirbeh

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Here's an attempt at a "game"...

Favorite Song in the Entirety of Smash
Favorite Stage in the Entirety of Smash

Song: Pollyanna/I Believe In You (the alt song from Melee's Onett)
Stage: Hyrule Temple

I think I would love Midgar, but I never got to play it much, cause I dropped Smash 4 before Cloud's DLC was a thing. But it really feels like a "me" stage.
Environmental Noises
The Great Cave Offensive

But not really tho
 
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Buzzwole

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Genuinely shocked that we haven't heard anything yet about a new date.
I wonder what they've got planned.
 

Mutsukki

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It doesn't make much sense for them to use those symbols to fight if they don't believe in the mythology behind them. But then again, Supernatural tried to pull that with Dean literally sending demons to hell by reading the Bible but still believing it was all BS, so it's not impossible Simon is like that (not likely though)

The only character we can be confident in the religious feelings of is Shulk, who wants a world without gods and reminds the player repeatedly.

I think the point being made though is a lot of people who dont want representation talk about how it should be kept ambiguous, but ignore that for a lot of characters in the cast their gender, race, sexuality, and sometimes even religion are explicit. They just don't notice cuz it's like them or what they're used to.
Dang... I don't want this to be a Xenoblade discussion, but I don't agree with your Shulk sentiment at all. Especially after playing 2 and other Tetsuya Takahashi games. I wouldn't say it's clear cut like that.
 
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Slavic

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Probably but they were not included in Smash for Christian representation. They were included to represent Castlevania and because many fans wanted Simon Belmont in Smash for 10+ years.

If Birdo was included in Smash, you can rest assured it will not be for LGBT representation and it will be because she got in based on her own merits (mainly SMB2 and many spin-off appearances)... that and because she makes an easy Yoshi Echo.
im pretty sure the pope was watching twilight and got scared of the vampires so he called sakurai on his pope phone and said he wanted the belmonts in for when his prerelease arrives.

I'm of the team that the representation (double meanings lmao) in smash isn't a product of Sakurai or the development team's decisions, it's just the place that society is in right now. I also think just attributing a demographic quality to a character for the sake of doing it doesn't do anything for the character or representation (looking at you, Rowling). In a hopefully not controversial example, saying the Belmonts are Christian does something for their character, since they use objects of Christian nature to battle evils, while, for instance, if they announced Mario was Christian, it would do nothing for his character because he isn't built around being Christian. It's sort of a weird example since I'm pretty sure the Christian imagery in Castlevania has about as much meaning as it does in Evangelion (read: nil), but that's where I'm sort of coming from. Was there a point to this? Probably not, but I got to bring up Eva in the thread
 

Buzzwole

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If K. Rool has to actually come out and say it, you just aren’t being very observant.
Funnily enough, K.Rool actually mentioned having a wife in DKC3, which makes him one of the few Smash characters that's technically married I guess?
 
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