Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kirby Dragons]

Oh man I forgot about RTC


I wonder how long until someone starts a new one. . .
I wonder if they'll wait for E3.

I see no reason to start one before a new Smash is announced.

 

[Deleted member]

There's no overrated character in Smash speculation, but only underrated ones, such as Mike Jones. & Knuckles

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You know, after reading this, I'm thinking that despite being a supporter, I may not be giving Crash Bandicoot enough credit. His first three games were huge in Japan (the second title was the first western game to sell one million copies there). If more people supported him, I think he could stand a decent shot now, especially if the remaster goes well.

Yeah, if we're not counting Nintendo games that were made by western developers then I think the only western video games to even reach 600,000 copies in Japan are the original Crash trilogy, some Tetris games, Minecraft, and Grand Theft Auto V oddly enough.

 

[Geno Boost]

Is it a bad thing that my most wanted characters for smash are the ones that we don't see them in a newer games or forgotten by the company but had a great past in the old games? It's hard for me to get interested on the newer characters that nintendo are making like I bought splatoon and played it and had fun but I don't care if inklings are in smash or not because I know they are going to appear in a lot of games in the future.

 

[Megadoomer]

Is it a bad thing that my most wanted characters for smash are the ones that we don't see them in a newer games or forgotten by the company but had a great past in the old games? It's hard for me to get interested on the newer characters that nintendo are making like I bought splatoon and played it and had fun but I don't care if inklings are in smash or not because I know they are going to appear in a lot of games in the future.

Doesn't seem like it - there are a lot of great characters that, for whatever reason, missed the cut in previous Smash games.

Take Isaac from Golden Sun - the series has clearly done pretty well considering that it got three games, and even though I've barely played a Golden Sun game, even I can tell that he has a ton of material to work with that would make him an interesting character; it seemed like the timing of the games' releases is what kept him out (seeing as the Game Boy Advance wasn't around when Melee came out, and when Brawl came out, the DS was already released).

 

[A Distant Demon]

Well guess it's a good as any time for a leak

Spoiler: Smash for switch

New Stage: Angel Island floating stage in front of the master emerald. The master emerald doesn't do anything because it is perfectly guarded.


Strangely, most mii costumes were removed from he game. All that remains is the knuckles mii costume. and a new one based on the boom design. They are completely different

New Character Knuckles: flexes his muscles and raps for all of his attacks. Does not chuckle

 

[Chandeelure]

For me, every character is overrated except for Inklings, ICs and Wolf, but if I had to choose some...

Veterans that are not ICs or Wolf, ARMS character, Pokemon that are not Decidueye, Mimikyu or Tapu Koko, indies, Zelda characters that are not from BotW, Elma, Waluigi and finally... Bandana Dee and Bomberman because I am pessimistic now and the last game crushed my hopes and dreams.

I would say others like Ridley, Impa or Isaac, but people already realized they are not likely, so they are not overrated anymore.

I would say K. Rool is unlikely too, but the ballot gives me some hope.


And underrated characters... hmm... Paper Mario (I think he is very likely) and Wonder Red (I think he is unlikely, but not THAT much).


What do you think?

 

[Deleted member]

For me, every character is overrated except for Inklings, ICs and Wolf, but if I had to choose some...

Pokemon that are not Decidueye, Mimikyu or Tapu Koko

Read: Incineroar

indies

Read: Shovel Knight

Waluigi

What do you think?

Considering you basically said three of my most wanted characters are "overrated" when one of them isn't even seen as likely at this point, not even by ME (Waluigi) and you're showing clear signs of ignorance towards another (saying Incineroar is "overrated" solely because he isn't Decidueye, Tapu Koko, or Mimikyu), you really DON'T want to know what I think.

 

[Opossum]

I mean, if any generation seven Pokémon is overrated, in my opinion it's Mimikyu, but that may just be me overthinking something.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I mean, if any generation seven Pokémon is overrated, in my opinion it's Mimikyu, but that may just be me overthinking something.

What I find to be ironic is how some people tend to give the Ultra Beasts the cold shoulder. Of course, only a few of them seem viable enough to be potential playable characters. The problem is, the candidates who could actually work (Pheromosa and Buzzwole) are version exclusives, while all the veteran Pokemon fighters are "not" version exclusives (excluding mega evolutions).

 

[Deleted member]

What I find to be ironic is how some people tend to give the Ultra Beasts the cold shoulder. Of course, only a few of them seem viable enough to be potential playable characters. The problem is, the candidates who could actually work (Pheromosa and Buzzwole) are version exclusives, while all the veteran Pokemon fighters are "not" version exclusives (excluding mega evolutions).

I used to think Buzzwole was higher up on the likelihood (and I do still support it, just less than Incineroar) since it just seemed to fit Smash, but I realized that unless Sakurai/Game Freak is specifically wanting to give the Ultra Beasts some representation, none really fit what Sakurai said in how Pokémon are chosen like how the likes of Tapu Koko and Mimikyu do (which is why I see them as the two most likely candidates).

Decidueye and Incineroar could be given a free pass due to what they can offer and due to their eventual anime significance (which is only speculation for the time being), but the likes of Buzzwole/Pheromosa are a bit of a harder sell.

Which is a shame, because just look at this thing:

....it's just perfect.

And we know Sakurai is a fan of Jojo, so those memes of Buzzwole being like a Stand could easily be made canon to Smash if he so chose. :V

 

[Geno Boost]

Which character that isn't in smash yet do you think would be the most complicated character to be developed for smash?

I would say Smithy true form from SMRPG with all the crazy head transformations and stat change and moveset change and a lot of different projectiles with different effects in each form and have more animation than any other characters in smash

How about you?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@GoldenYuiitusin: Yeah pretty much every Pokemon who is playable in Smash 3DS / Wii U has had major roles in the anime series. Of course, Jigglypuff has pretty much disappeared after the Hoenn saga, so its presence in Smash Bros. now has more to do with it being one of the original 12 veterans.

Anyway, what pretty much hurts the Ultra Beasts right now is the fact that they're not in the anime series in any way yet. It's a shame too, because the Beast Boost ability would be an interesting mechanic to implement.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Which character that isn't in smash yet do you think would be the most complicated character to be developed for smash?

I would say Smithy true form from SMRPG with all the crazy head transformations and stat change and moveset change and a lot of different projectiles with different effects in each form and have more animation than any other characters in smash

How about you?

I mean, if they're that complicated to implement, they probably wouldn't be in Smash to begin with.

...

I'm gonna take an easy answer and say give us Ice Climbers back but with a third climber.

 

[Geno Boost]

I mean, if they're that complicated to implement, they probably wouldn't be in Smash to begin with.

I think they can but it would require to remove a lot of things that the character can do and it would make the character less interesting than how it appears in its game just like cloud who can bring a lot of magic attacks but it wasn't used in smash

 

[Deleted member]

@GoldenYuiitusin: Yeah pretty much every Pokemon who is playable in Smash 3DS / Wii U has had major roles in the anime series. Of course, Jigglypuff has pretty much disappeared after the Hoenn saga, so its presence in Smash Bros. now has more to do with it being one of the original 12 veterans.

Anyway, what pretty much hurts the Ultra Beasts right now is the fact that they're not in the anime series in any way yet. It's a shame too, because the Beast Boost ability would be an interesting mechanic to implement.

Though in Greninja's case, it got a major anime role long after its Smash debut.

Overall, Greninja and Pokémon Trainer (as a whole; yes, this includes Charizard since he was introduced as a fighter through Trainer) were exceptions to the norm. I feel there's a chance something like Buzzwole could be another one if the idea of representing the new Ultra Beast concept is seen as important, but I don't think it's very likely.

(I kind of wish Ash would catch a Buzzwole for the sheer comedy potential of having a "tough" Pokémon that constantly flexes but is actually quite friendly, but that's even less likely than it showing up in Smash outside a new Beast Ball item.)

 

[Luminario]

I used to think Buzzwole was higher up on the likelihood (and I do still support it, just less than Incineroar) since it just seemed to fit Smash, but I realized that unless Sakurai/Game Freak is specifically wanting to give the Ultra Beasts some representation, none really fit what Sakurai said in how Pokémon are chosen like how the likes of Tapu Koko and Mimikyu do (which is why I see them as the two most likely candidates).

Decidueye and Incineroar could be given a free pass due to what they can offer and due to their eventual anime significance (which is only speculation for the time being), but the likes of Buzzwole/Pheromosa are a bit of a harder sell.

Which is a shame, because just look at this thing:

....it's just perfect.

And we know Sakurai is a fan of Jojo, so those memes of Buzzwole being like a Stand could easily be made canon to Smash if he so chose. :V

The energy drain drawings look so vicious and nauseating.
I'm more on the side of Pheromosa, but lots of the UBs look pretty fighter worthy, especially Buzzwole liks you said.
It would be nice if there was a UB leader type pokemon that could be added that brings them all together, but the only one that pops up a lot is Nihilego and it certainly isn't much of a fighter and the other potential "leader" type UBs (Guzzlord and I guess Necrozma kinda) are really out of the way.
The only thing to tie all the UBs together is Lusamine, so we could get Lusamine with UB Jojo stands or maybe a dual Pheromosa/Buzzwole tag team where they switch out with down B?

 

[Staarih]

Which character that isn't in smash yet do you think would be the most complicated character to be developed for smash?

If they really want to add a character, they'll find a way.
But come to think of it, I wonder how Inkling of all things (who we all agree on will be added at some point) would be developed. If they really want to stay true with keeping all the ink, swimming in it, squid transformations etc, that could be challenging to implement.
...however I doubt they'd choose to go for anything too complicated and Splatoon has so much material to use anyway (the Inkling thread probably has many good ideas), and as said, if they want to add someone, it'll happen.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Overrated characters? I'm not sure if I can think of any... most characters I previously though were overrated (for example, Sceptile during DLC era and more recently Elma) are not that overrated anymore.

I'm gonna take an easy answer and say give us Ice Climbers back but with a third climber.

Popo & Nana & Knuckles confirmed?

 

[FalKoopa]

A lot of the thread titles are hilarious with & Knuckles tracked on.

The Little Witch of Diamond City - Ashley & Knuckles
The Space Pirate Leader, Ridley & Knuckles
Whipping Up Trouble! Dixie Kong's Barrel of Support Buddies & Knuckles

 

[Chandeelure]

Read: Incineroar
Read: Shovel Knight
Considering you basically said three of my most wanted characters are "overrated" when one of them isn't even seen as likely at this point, not even by ME (Waluigi) and you're showing clear signs of ignorance towards another (saying Incineroar is "overrated" solely because he isn't Decidueye, Tapu Koko, or Mimikyu), you really DON'T want to know what I think.

Are you calling me ignorant because my opinion is not the same as yours and because I said "bad" things about your most wanted characters?

You think Incineroar is as likely as its competition? that's fine, but that is just your opinion, not a fact.

Excuse me for thinking that wrestling, "fighting dirty" and fire is not interesting compared to the other things the more popular competition has to offer. Tapu Koko can use a terrain mechanic, Nature Madness, has fairy and electric moves, can use his mask transformation, has his other Tapu counterparts, has an unique looking Z Move (like lol, even Incineroar's Z move is boring because it's literally Pikachu Libre's Special move in Pokken, but with fire instead of electricity), etc., Decidueye and Mimikyu have more potential just for being ghosts (levitation, teletransportation, curses, illusions, telekinesis, invinsibility, can manipulate souls, etc.) and even if you ignore the other things they have to offer.
All three of them also have more unique body types.

I didn't say Incineroar is overrated for not being them, there are reasons why I think that.
Its competition has more popularity and moveset potential, two of the most important things for Smash newcomers.

Incineroar is steps behind the others IMO and that is why it is overrated IMO, because it's grouped with the others and it just doesn't feel right to me.

Call me ignorant when the character is playable, not now only because I don't agree with you.
And even if it is playable in the future (because Smash is unpredictable), it's not like I'm just creating all these ideas out of nowhere and saying that I think it's not that likely because I don't like it or because I like the competition more (I don't, my most wanted Pokemon is Bewear and it has 0 chances, I don't care about the others). I'm just using logic and the things we've learned with the speculation, so no, I don't think I'm ignorant for saying Incineroar is not that likely compared to the others.

Also, Waluigi is overrated for me because he is still being considered and mentioned a lot, and I personally think he is just not a character that deserves much speculation, he is a character with a lot of competition from his series, low potential compared to its competition, lack of importance and is also an AT, and not only that, but he is like the face of the ATs in Smash.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'm not sure what about Tapu Koko makes him likely, especially compared to the starters and Mimikyu.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I'm not sure what about Tapu Koko makes him likely, especially compared to the starters and Mimikyu.

From what I've heard, it's role in the anime is one of the reasons people think it's likely.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm not sure what about Tapu Koko makes him likely, especially compared to the starters and Mimikyu.

It's got more major roles in the anime and games.

Plus, its very popular competitively.

 

[FalKoopa]

From what I've heard, it's role in the anime is one of the reasons people think it's likely.

It's got more major roles in the anime and games.

Plus, its very popular competitively.

I see.

Though I don't think competitive popularity has any bearing on its chances.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I see.

Though I don't think competitive popularity has any bearing on its chances.

No joke.

People cited that as a reason Greninja got picked back then.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I find Ice Climbers to be overrated, just because I don't think they would work in 8 player Smash.

I also think Decidueye is the best choice for a 7th gen Pokemon. He's the most popular starter of the 7th gen, he get's more requests for Smash than any other Pokémon of the 7th gen, and being Grass and Ghost already helps him stand out from his competition, because no current Smash character covers those types, (except for Mewtwo's Shadow Ball and Greninja'a Shadow Sneak, and maybe you could argue that Villagers ability to pull weeds is a grass move lol).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

From what I've heard, it's role in the anime is one of the reasons people think it's likely.

Even if that's the case, Pikachu is pretty much the star, and it would feel rather weird to have two Electric-type Pokemon being playable. Sure, Melee had Pichu, but it was more of a joke character for referencing baby Pokemon (something that has stopped occurring after the 4th generation).

 

[A Distant Demon]

Even if that's the case, Pikachu is pretty much the star, and it would feel rather weird to have two Electric-type Pokemon being playable.

I don't think 2 electric types would be too bad.

First of all, electric has so much potential, and pikachu barely scratches the surface, but I would think they wou;dn't play very similarly. I mean, Ivysaur and Decidueye probably wouldn't play similarly. Tapu Koko is just so so different from a design standpoint, plus has fairy types to work with instead of just electricity.


hmmm. . .now that I think about it Tapu Koko could be pretty fun.

 

[Deleted member]

Tapu Koko is pretty much the most significant Pokémon from Gen 7.
In damn near all forms of media regarding Sun/Moon (including the games themselves) it plays a major influencing role, something that cannot be said for even the likes of Lucario and Greninja for their regions.

It's also heavily merchandised and promoted by GameFreak/The Pokémon Company/whoever is in charge of that crap, in both standard and shiny states (labeled "Black Tapu Koko/Kapu-Kokeko"), something that is very rare for them to do.
In general, they're doing the opposite of what they did with Lucario and tried to do with Zoroark; hype up Tapu Koko but not be in your face about it.

With that in mind plus its overall popularity and potential fighting style, Tapu Koko is the most likely Pokémon from Alola to be a fighter in Smash if we were to get one from my perspective.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Tapu Koko is pretty much the most significant Pokémon from Gen 7.
In damn near all forms of media regarding Sun/Moon (including the games themselves) it plays a major influencing role, something that cannot be said for even the likes of Lucario and Greninja for their regions.

It's also heavily merchandised and promoted by GameFreak/The Pokémon Company/whoever is in charge of that crap, in both standard and shiny states (labeled "Black Tapu Koko/Kapu-Kokeko"), something that is very rare for them to do.
In general, they're doing the opposite of what they did with Lucario and tried to do with Zoroark; hype up Tapu Koko but not be in your face about it.

With that in mind plus its overall popularity and potential fighting style, Tapu Koko is the most likely Pokémon from Alola to be a fighter in Smash if we were to get one from my perspective.

This is exactly how I've always perceived Tapu Koko in regards to potential Sun/Moon mons for Smash, honestly. It's a viable Smash candidate that doesn't need leaps in logic regarding mechanics/portrayal or over-inflating it's relevance because everything stated in your post is factual and can be seen by pretty much everyone. biases for other pokemon aside anyway

(I totally forgot about the shiny event Tapu Koko when bringing it up in discussion considering I have 4 of them lmao)

 

[Deleted member]

This is exactly how I've always perceived Tapu Koko in regards to potential Sun/Moon mons for Smash, honestly. It's a viable Smash candidate that doesn't need leaps in logic regarding mechanics/portrayal or over-inflating it's relevance because everything stated in your post is factual and can be seen by pretty much everyone. biases for other pokemon aside anyway

(I totally forgot about the shiny event Tapu Koko when bringing it up in discussion considering I have 4 of them lmao)

4 of the event Kokos? Lucky *******.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of , it is still worthy to note what it became in its main series since Sakurai chose it to be a newcomer in Smash 4.

It was one of the Ubers of the XY metagame thanks to Protean, then had a significant role in the anime to the point of having a new form which became a thing in the following generation and keep it to be one of the most used Pokémon competitively.

My point is, if Sakurai did not choose and went with another Pokémon, Game Freak would very likely have not bother to give it a very useful ability and a very versatile moveset in order to make it popular in the XY metagame before its surprising reveal in the end of the Smash Direct of April 2014.


In a similar case, if Sakurai made very strong and not hard to master in Smash 4, I think it is to make him very popular in the competitive scene and to rise the odds that Square Enix would afford Nintendo to use its IPs in future Smash iterations again.

 

[Arcadenik]

Meowth is still a main character in the anime and it still isn't playable in Smash. I don't think having a major role in the anime really helps at all.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Meowth is still a main character in the anime and it still isn't playable in Smash. I don't think having a major role in the anime really helps at all.

Don't forget that with the exception of Melee, it was always a Pokeball Pokemon. Ironically with a move the anime Meowth can't use, but it's still pretty clearly there. Also, as for it not being in Melee, they did cancel a Meowth game, so that's probably just a case of not wanting to promote it that one time. It still has a trophy. Being in the anime never guaranteed something would be playable, but it does often make sure you get an appearance in Smash. Also, reminder that Misty uses her anime design as a trophy. And that Pokemon Trainer's Smash 4 trophy directly references Ash.

The anime definitely plays a role, just not every single time. Sakurai even references the anime directly more than once. Pikachu's neutral B is not in any of the games, given a name from the TCG(which is nothing more than a typo), and the closest actual usage of that exact move in any animation was a small bit in the first season of the anime. But let's note Pikachu's own fighting style is pretty similar to how it is in the anime, including its special moves. Thunder Jolt at best is a unique version of Thundershock(again, you won't ever see this move outside of the anime and SSB games, which is strange). Thunder is another one of Pikachu's very notable moves in the anime. And Quick Attack/Agility are the last one(s).

Mewtwo isn't known for using Shadow Ball outside of the anime as well, especially the second movie. His other specials are pretty much just random ones that seem to fit well enough for him, as he loves to control the opponent. Teleport spam is a great way to confuse someone. Confusion specifically does move characters around in the anime, and Disable is a very odd design.

Pokemon Trainer is a very interesting case here, though. While his Pokemon feel kind of random outside of Charizard, Squirtle was very prominent in the anime more than anywhere. And it's a huge coincidence(or is it?) that only Bulbasaur gets his middle form(who happens to also be one who refused to evolve in the anime) out of anyone. The movesets aren't nearly as obvious as some, though.

Lucario, however, is pretty clearly anime-based. It help it debuted in a movie, not in the games. It fights like its anime counterpart, too. And its heavily featured as a Gym Leader Pokemon more than once. And even part of the Battle Frontier. It surprisingly has less focus in the regular Pokemon games, although the difference is not that much.

Jigglypuff was already covered, but the only move that was given solely from the games was Rollout. She does sleep sometimes(although it's obvious Rest was a more unique move made as a backbone for the Lethal Joke Character design). Pound is not used as often as Doubleslap. In fact, about the only thing not from the anime(I'd say Puff Up, but there is an episode with a huge Jigglypuff and she does puff herself up at times) is her use of the marker pen. But that can be chalked up to "we still want them to use something that is like a real Pokemon move, at least our own interpretation of it". Also, I am aware Jigglypuff has no canon gender in Smash(only Pikachu does due to using the male tail design), but the character is often assumed as female and it's far easier to specify that.

As for Greninja, obviously it was chosen beforehand in Smash. The theory that Gamefreak/etc. promoted it because Sakurai chose it is harder to say. It would make sense to do so so people would love it in Smash. And they did a good job in not having it too much in your face about it. On the other hand, ninjas are popular so it might be nothing more than that. Ash-Greninja is the only truly major thing about it other than Protein. Could being chosen for Smash help influence their decision? Maybe. But it still worked out for the most part. Like, the only complaints I've seen is that "Ash is canon to the games now". In which case, all I gotta say is; "The anime has played a major role in making the games popular too. Many places got the anime first in this world. Get over it and stop being silly. You don't need to enjoy the anime to respect the major influence it has."

 

[Zerp]

With the recent revelation that Female Corrin is seemingly the new Smash amiibo we didn't know about I'm starting to lean more towards the line of thought that maybe we just won't get any new characters next game...

 

[Kirbeh]

With the recent revelation that Female Corrin is seemingly the new Smash amiibo we didn't know about I'm starting to lean more towards the line of thought that maybe we just won't get any new characters next game...

I wasn't expecting any additional characters, but I am surprised that Corrin is getting two amiibo. I doubt they will, but I hope they consider making amiibo for Fem. Robin, Alph, and the Koopalings as well.

As the wise pie stealing zaibatsu community once said "Promise nothing, deliver less."

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I'd be more than ok if we don't get new characters in the Smash4 port.. That being the case, I wouldn't be tempted to buy.. I don't want Wii U ports on the Switch, just new games. But if the game has new content, I expect the bare minimum.. two characters as SourceGaming reported, with one being Inkling and the other a 3rd Party newcomer.

 

[Megadoomer]

I'm not sure if this means anything either way as far as a Smash 4 port goes, whether it exists or even if it will have new characters. By my understanding, female Corrin is quite popular (far more than male Wii Fit Trainer, female Villager, female Robin, etc.), and I guess they're taking advantage of that.

 

[Arcadenik]

Verde Coeden Scalesworth Thanks HyperFalcon. That was informative and really refreshed my memory. If Meowth somehow gets a spot on the fighter roster (and he IS long overdue IMO), he would likely be based on Team Rocket Meowth and Pokeball Meowth.

Oh man... I really wish Meowth would get in Smash. It would be awesome if Meowth had a special move where he summons Wobbuffet to counter physical hits and reflect projectiles (and then he goes back in his Pokeball after defending Meowth).