Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zerp]

I'm in a weird position where I feel like a customs metagame would be mostly a improvement and a good thing for us a community, but I'm also actively wishing against it becoming the norm next game. What a horrible twist of fate it is that customs would give increased viability to so many characters, but to get that viability you have to make relatively less viable.

 

[Sharkarat]

l personally want them back, but would like some stuff to be fixed about them.

But if removed please make changes to palutena's base. Also please blade for Dorf.

 

[Schnee117]

Customs should come back.
The DLC characters never got any (would be cool if they did in a port) and the issues have simple fixes (make them have no repeats or have a custom shop for example).

If they can't be bothered to fix them them they might as well cut them.

What a horrible twist of fate it is that customs would give increased viability to so many characters, but to get that viability you have to make relatively less viable.

Sacrifices must be made to get Zelda to her top tier glory

 

[Bowserlick]

Each character should get a Switch *snap* attack in order to offensively tag-team another character in your stock line-up.

Which means you can choose each character for a stock at the beginning of the match. For time battles, you can get three characters you can rotate through.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I'm very indifferent towards custom moves. In my Smash circle they were never used, so their future implementation really won't affect us at all. However for the sake of being a Smash completionist, the least they could go is make them less of a horrible slog to acquire.

However, for god sakes, please change Palutena's default moveset. It's so terrible and I was looking very much forward to that character.

What's wrong with her having a reflecter, counter, and teleport?

Those are some of the most unique moves you could ever give a Smash character, and Sakurai clearly knew that.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

What a horrible twist of fate it is that customs would give increased viability to so many characters, but to get that viability you have to make relatively less viable.

You say that as if she's had any viability since Melee to begin with. RIP Jiggs

I'll take Jigglypuff staying where she is in the tier list if it means indirectly nerfing Cloud and Bayonetta any day. Assuming they don't actually get custom moves, anyway.

 

[N3ON]

What's wrong with her having a reflecter, counter, and teleport?

Those are some of the most unique moves you could ever give a Smash character, and Sakurai clearly knew that.

I know, I was so disappointed her neutral wasn't a charge.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Just to bring a new topic to debate:

Should custom moves still be a thing or are better getting removed?

I guess I'm kind of in the minority that would like to keep them around... But yeah, make the unlock requirements far less tedious if there are still any and not have them linked to equipment for them to be useable against randoms online and a chunk of the gripes would be gone right there. I couldn't avoid using some when it came to certain characters against friends. Shame the DLC ones didn't get any though, or it's good, depending on how you view it...

 

[Kirbeh]

If they're kept, then as others have said, make them less tedious to unlock. I am however in the camp that would rather see them go. While I like the concept of having customs, I'd rather they focus on better balancing the base move-set for each character rather than that character having to rely on a mix of customs to be viable.

It's a pipe dream, but as a replacement for customs, I would like to see alternate movesets for characters in a similar vein to the styles in MKX. No mixing and matching a few variants of the same move, but properly balanced, alternate moves that switch up some of that characters options.

It would lack the customization, but still provide variety for how each character can be played. And perhaps I'm completely off on this, but I feel it'd be easier to balance if it was done this way as opposed to trying to account for the different combinations a player might choose.

I am all on board for more customization on the Miis however. Let us change specials AND normals, even the throws. And expand on Mii costumes. Give us more options aside from a pre-made outfit and a hat. I want separate tops, bottoms, shoes, gloves, accessories, etc. I want my Miis to wear mismatching socks if possible. Just give us more options of some kind.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Just to bring a new topic to debate:

Should custom moves still be a thing or are better getting removed?

I'd rather just have them cut. Unlocking them was really tedious and I rarely ended up using them anyway.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

Wouldn't be thrilled. As much as I liked XC and XCX, there's no justification for the series getting that many characters.

XC2 Protagonist I can't even get into until we honestly know what he even does. I feel like Xenoblade wouldn't be able to get away with having a flavor-of-the-month-basis addition the way Fire Emblem and Pokemon do if the character himself doesn't do enough to stand out from Shulk, let alone the rest of the cast.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wouldn't be thrilled. As much as I liked XC and XCX, there's no justification for the series getting that many characters.

XC2 Protagonist I can't even get into until we honestly know what he even does. I feel like Xenoblade wouldn't be able to get away with having a flavor-of-the-month-basis addition the way Fire Emblem and Pokemon do if the character himself doesn't do enough to stand out from Shulk, let alone the rest of the cast.

What about just Elma?

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

"OH NO!!!! That's enough Xenoblade characters! Please don't repeat what happened with Fire Emblem, Sakurai!"

In all seriousness, I'd be cool with Elma, but I'll reserve judgment for the Xeno 2 protagonist until we know more about him and the upcoming game.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

I wouldn't really like that. I don't think a series that has only three games should have three characters yet.

I wouldn't mind if it got one newcomer, though.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

I'd react negatively. Either one as a single Xenoblade newcomer would be fine.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

Color me pleased.
I think a better question is if we'd get into a new Chrom vs. Robin situation if Xenoblade 2's cast will have more than 1 main character.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

Honestly i really didnt care for elma and we know so little about XC2. I probably eouldnt be super excited at the announcement. Opinion would probably change after playing the characters and XC2 release

 

[Kaze Arashi]

I feel like splatoon characters are likely to be in smash. Maybe some veterans will comeback like wolf or ice climbers. I really hope they add another pokemon from sun and moon as well. If they should take out a character, replace dark pit or put him as a pit alt. Like how they did olinar and alpha.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

 

[Opossum]

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

I still think Shovel Knight is the most likely.

That being said I'm still hoping for Crash or Lara Croft, though I expect them considerably less.

 

[Zerp]

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

Not counting Snake because he's a veteran but for newcomers, I'd bet on Steve from Minecraft, Minecraft's a top 20 seller on Wii-U, is everywhere and it's the king of all indies, granted he has little to no visible smash demand (remember, we haven't seen the ballot's results, how many of us actually thought Bayonetta would have won?), but if they want a big third party character that's huge and that people will be completely shocked about, he'd probably be one of the characters they'd at least end up considering.

 

[Luminario]

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

Shovel Knight and Shantae are always the indie front-runners there, there's also FF characters that are more iconic to Nintendo consoles like Black Mage or Terra. Someone from Sega like Nights or Arle from Puyo Puyo also have a small shot. Who knows, we might get one right out of left field like Hatsune Miku or someone since the "Only Nintendo console protagonists" argument was blown out of the water by Cloud.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

Shovel Knight for one. He's got the notable Smash demand and he's got the Nintendo connection (Nintendo publishing the game in Japan).

....I have a very suspicious feeling about Bomberman. Yes, he's Konami now, however, the whole "anniversary logo" for Super Bomberman R is the same logo Nintendo used for Mario, Zelda, and (if I'm not mistaken) the Year of Luigi.
Makes me think Nintendo's got some sort of deal going on with Konami in regards to the White Bomber.
Notably, not even the anniversary collection for Mega Man featured such logo.

After them, it's anyone's guess, really. If Suda51 is serious about talking with Sakurai about Travis Touchdown though, he might be someone to look at.


EDIT: Though Monster Hunters Stories getting an amiibo line is rather weird to me too.
Before them, Shovel Knight was the only non-Nintendo amiibo that wasn't from the Smash line.
Wonder if it possibly could lead to this duo being included (as well as the female counterpart to the Rider)....

 

[Bowserlick]

I think Scorpion is a pretty big hitter. He could be up there.

I am not sure what the demand for a MK character is in the Smash community. It may not be that high.

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt he'd be a big request.

Basically, for Scorpion to even have a chance, he'd have to either be a notably huge request or Ed Boon would have to be so big on the idea of him being in Smash that he'd pull a Kojima and directly talk to Sakurai about it.

 

[Bowserlick]

You might be right about Ed Boon needed as a pushing force for Scorpion's inclusion.

I do feel that he is one of the few remaining, long-lasting iconic third-party characters that have yet to be featured in Smash

 

[N3ON]

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

Shovel Knight... Rayman...

Bomberman is a possibility. But like Golden said, it's probably due to some clandestine company dealings more than anything else.

But I think if anything the last little while has shown us how unpredictable things become with third-parties.

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

I think one would do it.

But... the series really isn't huge. Even just having Shulk is fine for now.

What about just Elma?

She looks more interesting than Rex, or whoever the XC2 protagonist is, but I think the ship has sailed for her. If they had another, they'd probably want to take it from XC2.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Here's a question.

What would your reaction be....

If we got two Xenoblade newcomers?

So... our Xenoblade roster would be...

, Elma and the XC2 Protagonist

Meh. Better than Fire Emblem bias. *shrugs*

 

[Kenith]

If they're kept, then as others have said, make them less tedious to unlock. I am however in the camp that would rather see them go. While I like the concept of having customs, I'd rather they focus on better balancing the base move-set for each character rather than that character having to rely on a mix of customs to be viable.

It's a pipe dream, but as a replacement for customs, I would like to see alternate movesets for characters in a similar vein to the styles in MKX. No mixing and matching a few variants of the same move, but properly balanced, alternate moves that switch up some of that characters options.

It would lack the customization, but still provide variety for how each character can be played. And perhaps I'm completely off on this, but I feel it'd be easier to balance if it was done this way as opposed to trying to account for the different combinations a player might choose.

I am all on board for more customization on the Miis however. Let us change specials AND normals, even the throws. And expand on Mii costumes. Give us more options aside from a pre-made outfit and a hat. I want separate tops, bottoms, shoes, gloves, accessories, etc. I want my Miis to wear mismatching socks if possible. Just give us more options of some kind.

If i was ever going to say anything on this topic, it's this. Cheers

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

I listed a few the other day. For now I'll just say Shovel Knight and Bomberman.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

Looking at some of the things Sakurai has said it seems like he wants 3rd party characters from Japan who have a good amount of popularity worldwide, and have a decent amount of requests for Smash.

I went really in depth with this so I'll just put all this in a spoiler.

Spoiler

We didn't see Snake return, and I'm sure there was a good reason for that, so I'm not expecting him to return.

I think Bomberman has a decent chance, Nintendo did team up with Konami to make the newest Bomberman game, so they seem to be on good terms. It seems to me that Nintendo has quite a bit of interest in the Bomberman IP.

Sakurai has already said he wanted Geno twice now, and seeing how we are running out of really iconic characters he might get his chance sooner than later.

I think Sora would make a lot of sense, but I don't know how difficult getting the rights from Disney would be.

Professor Layton is pretty popular, and is very closely associated with Nintendo, the only problem I see him having is trying to come up with a good moveset for him.

Simon Belmont is weird for me. Castlvania is pretty popular, and Simon is the best choice from the series, but if you think about it Simon is only the main character of 4 games with a few smaller appearances. If you combine the sales of each Castlvania game he's been in they've only sold about 3million copies. Also at a character design stand point I don't find him iconic, due to how inconsistent his design is. That being said though he does seem to be pretty popular and does have a good amount of requests for Smash. I don't know, I can see him show up eventually, but as for right as far as Konami characters go I think Bomberman might have him beat.

Ryu Hyabusa is interesting, his series Ninja Gaiden is decently popular, but he's also a playable character in the Dead or Alive series which has a similar amount of popularity.
That being said though he doesn't have a lot of requests for Smash and I think there are other characters they would rather add first. I would still expect Simon to show up first. Despite Ryu has more exposure through games than him Simon still seems to be a more popular character, more wanted for Smash, and comes from a more popular series.

A Resident Evil character like Jill makes sense because of just how popular the series is, but if they can't use realistic firearms or knives I don't think it would work. Even if you can somehow manage to have them summon monsters from the game as part of their moveset (which I don't know how you would do in a game like Smash without having it look awkward) the monsters appearance might boost the games age rating. Also Resident Evil characters don't get requested all that much, so I don't think figuring out a way to make it work would be worth the trouble.

There are other Namco characters they could add. Sakurai had considered some of them like Heihacihi, but didn't see them as strong candidates, and went on to say implementing Heihachi's movement in Smash would be difficult, so I don't expect any more Namco characters any time soon.

Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter don't have any characters worth adding imo. Just generic heroes and generic enemies. I don't think Slime and Felyine would do a good job at attracting a large audience.

I guess my answer would be Geno and Bomberman, maybe Sora if getting the rights to use him isn't nearly as complicated/difficult as we think it is.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I really need to play a bomberman game to get what the hype is about


Sora is such a strange case.

He has plenty of Nintendo games (Chain of memories, Re coded, Dream Drop Distance, 358/2 Days) but those are all "spin offs." But all of those spinoffs are completely canon, and at least half are necessary to understand the plot.

But the 2 mainline games are Sony exclusive, and the upcoming one is multiplat but not announced for switch.

His design fits smash perfectly, and he has like 2 billion moves and like 5+ reasonable gimmicks. Him getting a moveset would not even remotely be hard.

He has low support at best from hardcore fans but huge support from casuals (we've all seen miiverse, and youtube comments and such. Dude is in Smash flash 2 for a reason) but we have no idea how that translated to the ballot. IMO I think he did well but who knows


But after all that, Disney. The company that owns him is Disney. And they are stingy as hell with IPs. If Disney wasn't stingy, and assuming Square Enix and Nintendo are on good of terms as you would expect them to be, Sora seems like he would be a shoo in, but he isnt.

How strange

 

[Kirbeh]

As much as I like KH, if Disney were to allow it, but under the condition that they shoehorn non-KH Disney content into the game, then I'd rather not have him.

Perhaps I'm in the minority with this, but if Sora were to ever be considered I'd only be okay with it if any/all Disney content was left out. No Donald. No Goofy. Nothing. Just include trophies for characters like Riku and Kairi. A stage based on an original world like Radiant Garden. And music that isn't related to any of the Disney worlds.

The only acceptable inclusion would be the Hidden Mickey that makes up the Kingdom Key's keychain, and only because he'd have to use the KK given how iconic it is to Sora's character and KH as a whole.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, who do you guys think are the next most likely 3rd party characters? I personally can't really think of anyone myself. We already got the big hitters and then some, and I have a hard time seeing Snake because Konami reasons.

If Konami rejoins Smash with Snake, then Bomberman, while I think his chances are a bit overestimated, wouldn't surprise me too much if the company got a second character; not because I think the new game somehow ties directly into Smash (which I doubt), but because of all the support he might have gained from it.

As much as I'd like to mention Simon Belmont as well, the Castlevania series hasn't been very active in the past few years, and while a few years of inactivity didn't stop Mega Man, I'm sure that the latter's demand was much greater than the former's ever was. I'd like to be wrong, though.

 

[A Distant Demon]

As much as I like KH, if Disney were to allow it, but under the condition that they shoehorn non-KH Disney content into the game, then I'd rather not have him.

Perhaps I'm in the minority with this, but if Sora were to ever be considered I'd only be okay with it if any/all Disney content was left out. No Donald. No Goofy. Nothing. Just include trophies for characters like Riku and Kairi. A stage based on an original world like Radiant Garden. And music that isn't related to any of the Disney worlds.

The only acceptable inclusion would be the Hidden Mickey that makes up the Kingdom Key's keychain, and only because he'd have to use the KK given how iconic it is to Sora's character and KH as a whole.

Nah im with you on this one

Sora is one of my most wanted, but the less non-KH original KH the better


I want more Riku and Axel and Aqua and less Mickey, Donald and Goofy.


Although a Donald Assist Trophy that only heals it self and your allies but never you would be pretty funny.

 

[Kirbeh]

Nah im with you on this one

Sora is one of my most wanted, but the less non-KH original KH the better


I want more Riku and Axel and Aqua and less Mickey, Donald and Goofy.


Although a Donald Assist Trophy that only heals it self and your allies but never you would be pretty funny.

Yeah, if not for Disney's involvement, I'd be more supportive of Sora as a possible third-party. It's conflicting since KH was my childhood and remains one of my favorite series, but so is Smash, and I have a feeling Disney wouldn't care about trying to respect what Smash is and ask for lots of promotion of their own characters.

And Disney content aside, that still leaves more than plenty of content to work with. Hollow Bastion, Radiant Garden, Twilight Town, The World that Never Was, Traverse Town, etc. could all work as stages.

Riku could be an assist trophy. Terra, Ventus, Aqua, Kairi, Namine, and all the Org. XIII members could be trophies.

Grab a few Heartless for Smash Run/Adventure Mode enemies. Maybe Nobodies if they really wanted too.

And music has got to be where they've got the most options. Yoko Shimomura's music is all fantastic. Fragments of Sorrow, Forze de Male, Working Together, Vim and Vigor, The 13th Struggle/Reflection/Dilemma, Sinister Shadows, Sinister Sundown, Scherzo di Notte etc, etc. Only problem there, is how expensive getting the music would be. Only getting two FFVII songs was already really disappointing.

As for Donald, hopefully he'll be more competent in KH3...

 

[Deleted member]

I really can't see Sora without Donald and Goofy being factored in somewhere.
And quite frankly, I can't see KH content being added while specifically leaving out the Disney aspect from the games.

The Disney characters and worlds play a huge role in what makes Kingdom Hearts Kingdom Hearts. To purposely leave them out is basically neutering representation of it.


This is a major reason why I say Sora will never get into Smash. Because he will not get in without at least some Disney content, and getting rights to that on top of Sora himself will be a lot more trouble than it is worth.

It isn't a matter of Disney trying to force promotion of its properties. It's a matter of actually getting the rights to those properties.

 

[Bowserlick]

Nintendo VS Disney would be amazing. Ursula better get in.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, what are some characters whose chances you feel are over- or underrated? I might answer my own question later.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, what are some characters whose chances you feel are over- or underrated? I might answer my own question later.

There's one particular character I feel whose chances are overrated, but for the sake of not beating a dead horse, I'm not going to discuss it further.