Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

If Smash gets two new characters as part of a Deluxe edition, I predict a lot of eaten hats if for some reason there's no Splatoon representation.

 

[Cosmic77]

So it looks like Ridley has gotten about 10 votes now. Glad to see the Space Pirates aren't on the verge of extinction like I thought they were.

People may point at characters like K. Rool and Isaac and say that the hardcore doesn't dictate the roster while seemingly glossing over inclusions like Shulk and Palutena.

The truth of the matter is that no one group has sole sway over how the roster takes shape; multiple contingents are appeased... as it should be. You can get your Mario characters and third-parties that everyone knows, you'll get your Bayonettas and Little Macs that the Nintendo gamer cares about, and you'll get your Shulks and Palutenas that the hardcore supports.

I commend Sakurai for finding room for all subsets, and I fear another director, especially EPD, would not cater so equally.

While I agree with you on Sakurai trying his best to balance out the characters, Smash 4 was probably the weakest example we have of this. The number of characters supported primarily by hardcore gamers (Robin, Shulk, Palutena, etc.) greatly outnumbers the amount of "iconic" characters that even non-Nintendo fans would recognize (Bowser Jr., Greninja, Villager, etc.).

For me, Brawl is still the best example of equality between both fanbases and franchises. Hardcores got Pit, Ike, and Lucas, while casuals got Wario, Diddy Kong, and Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't Wario like the most requested character since Melee though?

 

[Cosmic77]

Wasn't Wario like the most requested character since Melee though?

Peach and Bowser actually got added in Melee due to a poll to see who the most popular Mario character was (bar Mario and Luigi). Wario got third and didn't make the cut, hence why he was added in Brawl and not sooner.

But yes, Wario was highly requested. Just keep in mind that popularity doesn't always equal iconicness. Casual gamers are probably far less familiar with Ridley and K. Rool than Wario, Diddy Kong, or Pokemon Trainer, despite the two being incredibly popular characters in each Smash game.

 

[Deleted member]

People seem to have too much faith in Emily Rogers, but if she is actually right than I will be amazed. I honestly think Smash for Switch could be occurring some time around 2018-2019. I honestly really hope Sakurai develops it, because he developed it the way I liked it a lot. Especially Smash 4.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The problem isn't really the leaker(who has gotten things right before, even specific details), it's the fact it's just so vague and expected that it doesn't really merit any reason to trust this particular leak. It's basically a prediction in disguise.

She seems to have some legitimate sources, some not-so-legitimate ones, and tosses some guesses in there so if they're right she looks more credible.

Some of the things she's gotten wrong in the past seem like blatant predictions based on popular rumors or theories, like a Splatoon port (not sequel) for the Switch, or Pokémon Stars existing.

This really seems like one of those predictions where if she gets it right she can act like she is more credible. Her wording is so vague, saying it's a new Smash game reusing assets from Smash Wii U. That could mean anything from a very minor port, to a full blown Smash 5, and everything in between.

If Smash gets two new characters as part of a Deluxe edition, I predict a lot of eaten hats if for some reason there's no Splatoon representation.

If they had two full, non-clone newcomers, and one isn't Inkling, I'd be pretty damn shocked. I can't even really think of two other newcomers that would make more sense than Inkling.

 

[UserKev]

I take issue with a lot of the roster in choice and implementation, so Sakurai can suck an egg.

Tell 'em like it is. Being a jerk is so much fun. We're the minority and represent balance.

I won't speak for you though if that's not what you want to be.

 

[Deleted member]

Tell 'em like it is. Being a jerk is so much fun. We're the minority and represent balance.

I won't speak for you though if that's not what you want to be.

"Sigh"... why can not we be positive in here? It is always the same users who start the same arguments which causes the others who just want to have fun speculating to get in the action because the stuff is either too incorrect or too stupid. Being a jerk sounds fun, but for everybody including you, it is not fun. I want to be more happy than sad and you not being a jerk could totally help me out. Not trying to start drama or anything. Just sharing my thoughts.

So it looks like Ridley has gotten about 10 votes now. Glad to see the Space Pirates aren't on the verge of extinction like I thought they were.



While I agree with you on Sakurai trying his best to balance out the characters, Smash 4 was probably the weakest example we have of this. The number of characters supported primarily by hardcore gamers (Robin, Shulk, Palutena, etc.) greatly outnumbers the amount of "iconic" characters that even non-Nintendo fans would recognize (Bowser Jr., Greninja, Villager, etc.).

For me, Brawl is still the best example of equality between both fanbases and franchises. Hardcores got Pit, Ike, and Lucas, while casuals got Wario, Diddy Kong, and Pokemon Trainer.

I think in Smash 4, hardcores and equals got it even. Hardcores got Dark Pit, Palutena, Shulk, Robin, Roy, Lucas and Bayonetta.
Casuals got Bowser Jr, Pac-Man, Greninja, Villager, Charizard seperate, Cloud, Mega Man and more. I think it is about even in my eyes. I think Sakurai is a good developer.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think in Smash 4, hardcores and equals got it even. Hardcores got Dark Pit, Palutena, Shulk, Robin, Roy, Lucas and Bayonetta.
Casuals got Bowser Jr, Pac-Man, Greninja, Villager, Charizard seperate, Cloud, Mega Man and more. I think it is about even in my eyes. I think Sakurai is a good developer.

Never said Sakurai was a bad developer, just that Brawl's roster was handled better IMO. For my argument's sake, I'll compare the list of newcomers side by side.


Brawl: ()

Smash 4: ()


From my perspective, Brawl had a greater balance of iconic and niche characters. Not at all saying that I'm dissatisfied with Sakurai's work in Smash 4. I just think Brawl was his best in terms of balancing newcomers between casuals and hardcores.

 

[Deleted member]

Inb4 "hurr durr there's no such things like WTF characters".

 

[Cosmic77]

Inb4 "hurr durr there's no such things like WTF characters".

I couldn't disagree more with the "no unlockable characters" part. Working hard to unlock my favorite characters has always been something I enjoyed in Smash. Doesn't make a difference to me if I already know who those characters are. It's no fun when everything is just handed to you from the get-go.

"Those gosh-darn casuals, wantin' everything all at once! In my days, we had to EARN our characters!"

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I couldn't disagree more with the "no unlockable characters" part. Working hard to unlock my favorite characters has always been something I enjoyed in Smash. Doesn't make a difference to me if I already know who those characters are. It's no fun when everything is just handed to you from the get-go.

"Those gosh-darn casuals, wantin' everything all at once! In my days, we had to EARN our characters!"

Agreed. Furthermore, why not provide players with both options? If players want that feeling of progression by unlocking characters, then let them. However, why not provide some method have unlocking all the characters and stages from the start, such as a button in the options menu or a cheat code like the days of old? ARMS recently added a tournament mode, which unlocks all the ARMS for local play (it just disables being able to play Grand Prix and Ranked online). Smash can easily do something like this.

 

[Opossum]

I couldn't disagree more with the "no unlockable characters" part. Working hard to unlock my favorite characters has always been something I enjoyed in Smash. Doesn't make a difference to me if I already know who those characters are. It's no fun when everything is just handed to you from the get-go.

"Those gosh-darn casuals, wantin' everything all at once! In my days, we had to EARN our characters!"

In the end it doesn't really matter to me either way (though I guess if I had to pick I'd rather my mains be starters so they could get more cool promotional material?) but I can see why folks wouldn't want unlockables.

Mainly because it makes it far easier on tournament hosts if everyone is unlocked from the start.

 

[Deleted member]

Inb4 "hurr durr there's no such things like WTF characters".

There were some things I did not like about it ( him wanting no unlockables, and him wanting a move-set change mainly ). Here is my reason why the characters should not get a move-set. It would appeal to some casuals, but the competitive fanbase and some other casuals that are more into the series would hate the change. His video was honestly a little bit too much looking to casuals, but I guess you can say that is the majority that should be focused on, because they do bring the money to Nintendo.

Edit: No unlockables would be good for competitive tournament hosting though, Opo makes a good point. + Having all the characters on the go is satisfying. The feel of unlocking all of them would be ruined though.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I honestly wouldn't mind moveset alterations. I mean, some of the movesets are nearly 20 years old. Time for a damn update, right?

But I don't want anything drastic like completely starting a moveset from scratch. Getting an update in specials like what Pit got in Smash 4 would be nice for some and some animations overhauls like what Bowser got in the same game would be neat too.

 

[Deleted member]

Give DK a Barrel Toss side b pls.

 

[Opossum]

Give DK a Barrel Toss side b pls.

I feel like this was purposely left out for the same reason Ike doesn't have his ranged attacks with Ragnell, and that's moveset cohesion. A projectile on a burly and slower character like Ike or Donkey Kong likely didn't mesh well from a balance perspective.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

As expected as it was, the winner of the last poll was none other than Zoroark. Bisharp was second, Hydreigon was third, and Excadrill came last.

Next is without a doubt the last Gen 5 poll with 50% legendary and 50% non-legendary. Your choices are Genesect, Meloetta, Chandelure, and Krookodile.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Now to see if people still want the prehistoric metal bug.

 

[Deleted member]

Chandelure is the only choice and you know it.
Yes, I'm gonna spam this until the end of the poll.

 

[splat]

Never said Sakurai was a bad developer, just that Brawl's roster was handled better IMO. For my argument's sake, I'll compare the list of newcomers side by side.


Brawl: ()

Smash 4: ()


From my perspective, Brawl had a greater balance of iconic and niche characters. Not at all saying that I'm dissatisfied with Sakurai's work in Smash 4. I just think Brawl was his best in terms of balancing newcomers between casuals and hardcores.

I don't disagree with you, but I feel like there's two things to bring up here:

1. The longer Smash continues the less star power newcomes will have, as most of the lower hanging fruit has been included already. While there are definitely still some larger characters missing, they're nowhere near the size of the likes of Dedede, MK, Wario and Olimar. (I feel that's largely reflected in the large amount of third party characters who have been given priority above the remaining first party characters, too)
   
   
2. I feel like Smash 4 revolved around having newcomers with unique movesets (for the most part) rather than around newcomers with much star power. Granted, Brawl did have a fair few characters with unique moveset too, but quite a few characters didn't really bring much new to the table.

(Also, there's at least one retro character missing from either list)

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

So it looks like Ridley has gotten about 10 votes now. Glad to see the Space Pirates aren't on the verge of extinction like I thought they were.



While I agree with you on Sakurai trying his best to balance out the characters, Smash 4 was probably the weakest example we have of this. The number of characters supported primarily by hardcore gamers (Robin, Shulk, Palutena, etc.) greatly outnumbers the amount of "iconic" characters that even non-Nintendo fans would recognize (Bowser Jr., Greninja, Villager, etc.).

For me, Brawl is still the best example of equality between both fanbases and franchises. Hardcores got Pit, Ike, and Lucas, while casuals got Wario, Diddy Kong, and Pokemon Trainer.

Ridley had like 5 or so votes from Facebook before posting the poll here.

---

One thing we all should realize by now with 4 Smash games is that popularity is not everything and that certain characters being the next definitive choice of a representation for a series isn't always the case.

If popularity was everything the roster of Brawl and Smash 4 would be so different (maybe even parts of Melee). And certain characters being the next choice kind of depends on if they are still relevant and if other choices don't outway them. One such choice mentioned on this discussion the last day or so is Bandanna Dee. Obviously he makes sense, he is popular, and he is used in the series still. But at any moment another character could be created or brought back and utilized as much or more so. I will say this, if Prince Fluff years ago would have continued to be used he would also have been just as relevant and just as possible for Smash 4. But his chances dropped tremendously since then because he hasn't been used in the series since then. But his chances dropping doesn't guarantee Bandanaa Dee as any other Kirby character could be made relevant again.

In terms of Zelda everyone would likely say the next obvious choice is Impa. She was relevant during the days of Melee because of games like Ocarina of Time and the Oracle games. But after that she disappeared until Skyward Sword, A Link Between Worlds, and Hyrule Warriors which canned her shot for Brawl but gave her one for Smash 4 (which didn't happen). Now she has started to disappear again (somewhat) and other characters are debuting and being brought back so she now has competition, some of which might be more relevant than her come the time of Smash 5.

And in terms of Fire Emblem a lot of people I have seen still ask for Lyn or Hector. Others have started pushing for Celica and Alm. But the likes of Hector and Lyn haven't had an actual appearance in the series since their game back in 2003, one that wasn't DLC. Their highest shot was BRAWL when GBA was a central focus. And Echoes is still relevant now but we are getting ever so closer to Fire Emblem 16 on Switch. When that happens we all know characters fron it will pretty much be taking preference over anyone else, much like Ike did in Brawl when his games were still new and like Awakening and Fates did in Smash 4.

These are only some examples but it applies to every franchise. To every series and individual games released. Smash games tend to pull from stuff relevant leading up to its release (like the GBA, DS, and GC for Brawl or the DS, 3DS, and Wii for Smash 4). Fans may request stuff all the time, many things might have popularity, but that doesn't guarantee whether something is likely or obvious to add.

 

[Deleted member]

As expected as it was, the winner of the last poll was none other than Zoroark. Bisharp was second, Hydreigon was third, and Excadrill came last.

Next is without a doubt the last Gen 5 poll with 50% legendary and 50% non-legendary. Your choices are Genesect, Meloetta, Chandelure, and Krookodile.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Now to see if people still want the prehistoric metal bug.

Both Chandelure and Krookodile are among my top favorite 'mons.

Voted for the Krook though, at least Chandelure demonstrated its talents as a fighter in Pokkén.

 

[Deleted member]

Both Chandelure and Krookodile are among my top favorite 'mons.

You have amazing ta-

Voted for the Krook though,

Dead. To. Me.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I take issue with a lot of the roster in choice and implementation, so Sakurai can suck an egg.

You take issue with everything. I'd hate to see what your alternative choices are.

 

[Lukingordex]

You have amazing ta-

View attachment 137582
Dead. To. Me.

I'll get my bealtiful krookodile to use a super effective Crunch attack on that chandelure of yours

 

[Deleted member]

I'll get my bealtiful krookodile to use a super effective Crunch attack on that chandelure of yours

Chandy has grass coverage










It's also god

 

[Lukingordex]

Chandy has grass coverage










It's also god

Too slow. Gonna get munched before it can do anything

 

[ike¥]

Chandy has grass coverage










It's also god

bro krook lives in the dessert how u have oil for ur lamp in the dessert

 

[Deleted member]

Too slow. Gonna get munched before it can do anything

...**** you got me









It's still god though

bro krook lives in the dessert how u have oil for ur lamp in the dessert

It's a chandelier, not a lamp. Get your facts right, jeez.
Also gods don't need no oil.

 

[ike¥]

It's a chandelier, not a lamp. Get your facts right, jeez.
Also gods don't need no oil.

fire needs oil man
u aint no god u can literally be hung from a ceiling and destroyed just quit

 

[Deleted member]

fire needs oil man
u aint no god u can literally be hung from a ceiling and destroyed just quit

First off, I didn't say I was a god. I said Chandelure was a god.
Second, don't compare real life situations to Pokemon. Chandelure is a ghost, not a chandelier.

 

[ike¥]

First off, I didn't say I was a god. I said Chandelure was a god.
Second, don't compare real life situations to Pokemon. Chandelure is a ghost, not a chandelier.

ur already ded then u lost before u started smh

 

[Deleted member]

ur already ded then u lost before u started smh

Mods, how do I delete someone else's post?
Also Chandelure is still a better Pokemon.

 

[ike¥]

Mods, how do I delete someone else's post?
Also Chandelure is still a better Pokemon

bro ur a ghost u can fly thru my walls and get on my laptop

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let's get back on-topic. This isn't a Pokemon general discussion, it's actually about Smash speculation.

Anyway, my overall problem with Emily Roger's so-called leak is it's impossible to take seriously. It's too vague, and there's no way to really give her credibility just cause it turns out to be real. It needs clear details to say if it's real or not.

 

[NintenRob]

Saw people saying there shouldn't be unlockables

Strongly disagree


Instead they should include a system that allows for instant unlocks, like a cheat code system

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Saw people saying there shouldn't be unlockables

Strongly disagree


Instead they should include a system that allows for instant unlocks, like a cheat code system

That's the best of both worlds, really.

 

[NintenRob]

That's the best of both worlds, really.

Exactly

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Saw people saying there shouldn't be unlockables

Strongly disagree


Instead they should include a system that allows for instant unlocks, like a cheat code system

A cheat code is the perfect compromise. Super Smash Bros is the best game to have unlockable characters in. Nothing will ever be cooler than the "Challenger Approaching" sequences in Super Smash Bros. Melee.

If people want to spoil characters on the internet that should be their choice. But, even if you know who all the characters are, it's important to earn them.

Characters that provide a fresh twist to familiar fighters (Luigi, Toon Link, Wolf) are something you should earn after you've already had a taste of the original. More obscure characters are something special because you start out with all these well known all-stars and then by playing the game you are rewarded with gem characters that you possibly have never seen before or characters you would have never expected like Duck Hunt.

I especially would like to see some more Japan-Only unlockables like Takamaru, Ayumi, and Lip. Some more unlockable clones would be cool once you've revealed the whole roster. Pichu and Donkey Kong Jr. would be great additions in that regard in my personal opinion. I love clones more than anything because I like to see how Sakurai can make familiar characters into something different, yet familiar.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

And the winner of the poll is Krookodile. It was interesting seeing that Genesect support is alive and well. Chandelier didn't do too bad and Meloetta just shown how badly her support died.

Moving on, we start with Generation 6, which brought us the Smash 4 newcomer Greninja. Your picks are Chestnaught, Delphox, Diggersby, and Florges.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good luck.