Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PlasmaDam]

What is the one Chracther you dont want in smash guys

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I love how frank you've become. It fuels my soul.

Thanks man. I like to tell it like it is.

>has persona
>doesn't have smt
View attachment 161380

HE HOLD UP

SMT falls under another one of the "possibly" series, as it lacks Western recognition compared to Persona.

I know some guy was saying that Persona 5 was the "best selling JRPG" which is a lie, but it is the best selling Persona/SMT game, and brought the series into "globally-recognized" territory. Overall Persona has outsold SMT, which is why I say it's more likely we'll see Persona instead of SMT.

That's a good tweet though. Makes me want a Jack Frost plush of my own. Anybody know where I can find one like that?

What is the one Chracther you dont want in smash guys

None.

Is it a character I want? H Y P E.
Is it a character I'm okay with? Okay.
Is it a character I don't like? Good for that character's fans. Bonus points if there's widespread salt.

 

[SvartWolf]

Going back to this because I believe that this is one of, if not the most important things Sakurai has said indicating the possibility of third-party characters in Smash Bros.

The question is, what are the "major globally-recognized franchises" that are left? If I had to speculate, here's some I'd say:

• Kingdom Hearts
• Persona
• Cave Story (most likely indie choice imo)
• Monster Hunter
• Devil May Cry
• Tales of
• Tekken (previously considered)
• Minecraft
• DOOM (significant to gaming history)
• Crash Bandicoot (if it's popular in Japan)

I'm likely missing a few here.
.

Resident Evil,
Witcher
Dark Souls /Bloodborne
Warcraft
Overwatch
Fallout
Grand Theft Auto
Elder Scrolls
God of War
Assasins Creed
Bioshock
Prince of persia (legacy?)
Half Life
Team Fortress
Portal
League of Legends
Tomb Raider
Fortnite

yeah... and im probably missing a few too.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Banjo-Kazooie moveset you ask?
No, you didn’t. So, let’s jump right in.

Spoiler

Run animation: During Banjo’s run of average speed, Kazooie seemlessly takes over with a burst of speed. This will change the power and orientation of their dash attack: Forward Roll, which would become Backward Roll.
Jumps: Banjo and Kazooie could have multiple jumps. My feelings guide me to 3-4 jumps. One from the ground and 2-3 flaps of Kazooie’s wings.

Moveset

Jab: Claw swipes. Something Banjo does other than carry the real hero of the story around.

Dash attack: Forward roll. Donkey Kong has seen better, but he acknowledges the skillz
When Kazooie takes over, Banjo is on his back, facing backwards, so they will roll backwards, leaving Banjo standing the opposite direction, possibly setting up for a Back Air.

Forward Tilt: Banjo whips has backpack out front like it’s a flail, angering Kazooie, Who was pretty sure he was supposed to wait til she wasn’t in it anymore.

Up Tilt: Kazooie emerges from the backpack swiping from front to back with a wing.

Down tilt: Kazooie(as usual) springs forward and downward to peck at his favorite meal. Toes.

Forward Smash: Beak Barge! During start up frames Banjo readies himself for a shoulder check maneuver. As the attack initiates, Banjo leans in and pushes forward as Kazooie extends a powerful, boulder-shattering beak forwards.

Up Smash: Banjo arches a shoulder upward as Kazooie launches his head upward from the backpack for the first hit, rapidly retracting himself while spitting up a short range grenade egg upwards that connects with the opponent before exploding, which is where all the knockback of the attack comes from. Missing with the egg grenade will cause it to linger at it’s peak for only a brief moment before exploding anyways.

Down Smash: Banjo leans down swinging both arms out to each side with a short range, low damage and slight knockback, Kazooie emerging immediately afterward to show Banjo exactly how the pros flap downward, having more range and much greater power from this second hit.

Neutral Air: Banjo whips his backpack around his body.

Forward Air: Rat-a-tat Rap! Kazooie pops out of the pack for three beak attacks in quick succession.

Up Air: Banjo swings his backpack upward for the first hit, while Kazooie erupts a beak upward for the second.

Back Air: Kazooie uses her own legs to deliver a powerful drop kick from Banjo’s back.

Down Air: Beak Buster! Banjo executes a midair flip only halfway as to remain upside down as Kazooie extends her beak downward, rapidly descending for a powerful falling blow.

Grab: Banjo simply reaches out with an underhanded grip. Kazooie holds her head out of the pack, ready to bring the pain.

Pummel: Kazooie beaks at that noggin.

Forward Throw: Banjo tosses the opponent out and up as Kazooie launches two eggs to catch the opponent mid-flight.

Back Throw: Kazooie nabs the opponent out of Banjo’s hands(which he hates) and tosses the opponent backwards by rearing her head back.

Down Throw: Banjo slams the opponent flat on the ground as he uses his other hand to brag Kazooie by her throat to club his probe opponent, bouncing them off the floor.

Up Throw: Kazooie extends her feet from the backpack, lifting both an unsuspecting Banjo and the opponent up before bucking Banjo’s head upwards into the opponent.

Specials!

Neutral: Egg Shot! This move works in two ways.
1. Tapping the special button results in Kazooie shooting eggs horizontally forward. The projectiles are medium speed and somewhat weak.
2. Holding the button will allow you to use the analog stick to choose a direction, angle and type of attack! Forward or diagonally forward will shoot eggs as the first way does, except they can be angled up or down.
Holding the stick backwards will cause the eggs to come out of...the other end, bouncing three times before breaking.

NOTE: Other types of eggs will be used at random, including: Grenade Eggs, Ice eggs, Fire eggs. One type of egg, the Clockwork Kazooie egg, can only appear from the rear shot, it hatches and then walks around similar to a mechakoopa.

Up Special: Flight! Kazooie begins flapping her wings as feathers fall from her(much like in the original games). Kazooie will be able to maneuver Banjo much in the way ROB can maneuver with his thrusters. After a certain number of feathers fall from Kazooie, she will become exhausted and Banjo will be unable to use any aerials involving Kazooie until they land.

Down Special: Wonderwing! Kazooie will shield Banjo with Golden wings, providing super armor and causing mild damage and knockback during motion. Using any other attack, grabbing or jumping will end the Wonderwing special. Each use immediately consumes a golden feather. Kazooie only has 3 Golden feathers to use per stock so use them wisely!

Forward Special: Breegul Bayonnet! Banjo underhandedly grabs Kazooie from the bottom of the pack and thrusts her forward like a spear! Holding the special button will cause Kazooie to spit up an egg at the end of the attack.[SPOILER/]

I always implicitly ask about B&K

I'm not good at analyzing move-sets, as I play Smash for fun, though hoping Ultimate is the key to getting more serious with it (still for casual). I like it as it seems to play similarly to how I would be playing in Banjo-Kazooie. One issue I've always had is random eggs. I would think for movesets you'd want to reduce the randomness of certain moves. I've heard suggestions of perhaps how long you hold down the button determines what type of eggs you use.

Another idea I've had trying to incorporate the element of B&K being two fighters in one would be utilizing Talon Trot to move faster while using Kazooie-specific moves, like Wing Whack. Or perhaps Banjo specific moves, like spinning his backpack, could only occur when Kazooie is let out, running around and being vulnerable to attack. And when you're in full control of Kazooie, using moves like wing whack, Banjo takes a nap leaving him vulnerable. Though, again, that introduces an element of randomness. There's so many possibilities, though, depending on what angle Sakurai approaches it (if B&K makes it in, of course). I really think Banjo & Kazooie could be turned into such a unique fighter. My guess, though, is that Sakurai may only focus on Banjo-Kazooie moves, including using only basic eggs, rather than going crazy with all the stuff Tooie introduced. I'd be pleasantly surprised if he was able to make it work, though.

 

[Luigi The President]

You're basically describing someone who's never been on the internet or gone clothes shopping if you haven't seen Majora's Mask or Skull Kid wearing him at least once.

If you play video games. Like video games that aren't sports and first person shooters. 99% You've seen Majora's Mask, Skull Kid, or The Moon on one or more occasions. If you're even REMOTELY familiar with Zelda, you're familiar with one of those characters.

Please don't make me laugh.

Listen man I don't know how to say it but

This really REALLY ain't it chief

 

[Shroob]

You're basically describing someone who's never been on the internet or gone clothes shopping if you haven't seen Majora's Mask or Skull Kid wearing him at least once.

If you play video games. Like video games that aren't sports and first person shooters. 99% You've seen Majora's Mask, Skull Kid, or The Moon on one or more occasions. If you're even REMOTELY familiar with Zelda, you're familiar with one of those characters.

Please don't make me laugh.

You realize that Majora's Mask is meant to make Skull Kid not stand out from a design stand point, right?


The bright, almost garish colors of Majora's Mask are in stark contrast to the very drab, earth tones that Skull Kid wears.


It's a very basic design to draw your attention to the mask, not the person wearing the mask.

 

[Will]

I never really understood why the moon had a face in Majora's Mask and then never did again in any other Zelda.
like damn imagine if the moon had that face for the rest of the series though

 

[TheLastJinjo]

But you're also one of the people who threw an almighty tantrum when people pissed on the Gardevoir/Gothitelle leak, and your reasoning for believing it as true was because you WANTED it to be true.

Because it has credibility from someone who made accurate predictions. I didn't give it credibility based on an awful photoshop or click bait YouTube video.

^ THIS is an insult.

 

[blazefan519]

You're basically describing someone who's never been on the internet or gone clothes shopping if you haven't seen Majora's Mask or Skull Kid wearing him at least once.

If you play video games. Like video games that aren't sports and first person shooters. 99% You've seen Majora's Mask, Skull Kid, or The Moon on one or more occasions. If you're even REMOTELY familiar with Zelda, you're familiar with one of those characters.

Please don't make me laugh.

Well ****, I guess for a good 6 years of my life, I was playing nothing at all then since I didn't even know Majora's Mask as a game existed. The Mask itself is way more iconic than Skull Kid himself is, i.e. the reason why I thought his name was Majora when I decided to play a Zelda game for the first time. And the only Zelda merch that I've seen in my lifetime is the triforce. Maybe blame the shops where I live at, but I never once say anything Majora's Mask related in stores.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

What is the one Chracther you dont want in smash guys

I don't want Skull Kid, he's just a literal who wearing the Majora's Mask.
IT'S JUST A PRANK BRO

 

[Zathura]

I never really understood why the moon had a face in Majora's Mask and then never did again in any other Zelda.
like damn imagine if the moon had that face for the rest of the series though

Was it actually explained why that was the case? Was it alive?

 

[Luigi The President]

Because it has credibility from someone who made accurate predictions. I didn't give it credibility based on an awful photoshop or click bait YouTube video.

^ THIS is an insult.

Yet you believed a stupid leak?
And it also lost its credibility in the same post as it said Simon didn't make the cut?

I'm feeling like the big question mark in that pic right now.

Take a step back, read some of the replies we're giving you, try to see our POV.

 

[StormC]

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game and in my top ten video games in general.

The Mask? It's pretty iconic, well-recognized to general gamers, maybe those more aligned with Nintendo and Zelda, but not super high up there.

Skull Kid as a character? Majora as a character? A non-entity outside of Zelda fans and people aligned with Zelda (Smash fans, etc.). He's not on the level of Bowser/Ganon/Sephiroth/Eggman/Dr. Wily/M. Bison/Kefka/[insert villain here], that's for sure. He's below K. Rool and perhaps even Ridley.

 

[Shroob]

Because it has credibility from someone who made accurate predictions. I didn't give it credibility based on an awful photoshop or click bait YouTube video.

^ THIS is an insult.

You mean a random 4chan poster?

"I don't believe those DUMB leaks!"


*Believes random 4chan poster*

 

[Tree Gelbman]

None.

Is it a character I want? H Y P E.
Is it a character I'm okay with? Okay.
Is it a character I don't like? Good for that character's fans. Bonus points if there's widespread salt.

This pretty much.

I feel it's also the most realistic and healthy way to handle Smash Brothers.

After all it's all a video game with 70 plus characters. If legit one or two bugs you that much?

Just don't play them. Their presence isn't going to hurt you. Nor does it ruin Smash Brothers.

 

[Pakky]

Shulk in B tier? Snake and Samus above Link and Ganondorf? The star fox characters in A tier? Kirby in C? This list physically hurts me

Saw that earlier today...

The man's daft

 

[Will]

What is the one Chracther you dont want in smash guys

Bottom left. I could give deeper reasoning if you want but they're just there.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Resident Evil,
Witcher
Dark Souls /Bloodborne
Warcraft
Overwatch
Fallout
Grand Theft Auto
Elder Scrolls
God of War
Assasins Creed
Bioshock
Prince of persia (legacy?)
Half Life
Team Fortress
Portal
League of Legends
Tomb Raider
Fortnite

yeah... and im probably missing a few too.

I'd call in to doubt a lot of those. I'd agree with Dark Souls, Tomb Raider, Overwatch, Elder Scrolls/Fallout (more like Bethesda as a company), Prince of Persia as an NES legacy game, maybe Valve as a company, maybe God of War, and maybe Fortnite.

What we're going for is worldwide appeal and/or historical significance

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You mean a random 4chan poster?

"I don't believe those DUMB leaks!"


*Believes random 4chan poster*

Guy who accurately predicted 3 characters a month before all 3 are revealed > Stupid photoshop bull ****.

Do you know what random is? I never said 4chan had anything to do with it's credibility. Stop being pissed off for no reason. What do you give a **** what I believe? You accused ME of throwing a tantrum???

 

[RileyXY1]

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game and in my top ten video games in general.

The Mask? It's pretty iconic, well-recognized to general gamers, maybe those more aligned with Nintendo and Zelda, but not super high up there.

Skull Kid as a character? Majora as a character? A non-entity outside of Zelda fans and people aligned with Zelda (Smash fans, etc.). He's not on the level of Bowser/Ganon/Sephiroth/Eggman/Dr. Wily/M. Bison/Kefka/[insert villain here], that's for sure. He's below K. Rool and perhaps even Ridley.

Yeah. And, two Zelda characters have seniority over Skull Kid. They are Impa (the most recurring character outside of the Triforce Holders) and Tingle (who was popular enough to get his own spinoff games).

 

[Luigi The President]

View attachment 161384

Bottom left. I could give deeper reasoning if you want but they're just there.

Ariga, who's the knight-ponytail-claw guy in Fateful Five? Killer Instinct, right?
BTW, I'd love to hear why you don't want Isabelle.

(also, big respect for Eggman)

 

[Will]

Was it actually explained why that was the case? Was it alive?

If it was, I'd know the answer.
The moon is the source to many theories, notably the big boy "LInK iS DeAd Oh mY GoD!"

 

[StormC]

View attachment 161384

Bottom left. I could give deeper reasoning if you want but they're just there.

A fellow Eggman supporter... we are a rare breed. How do we get him into Smash?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

What is the one Chracther you dont want in smash guys

Rex and pyra, not particularly a fan of either of them as characters and I don't like their designs at all. I'd rather have another other Xenoblade 2 character.

This pretty much.

I feel it's also the most realistic and healthy way to handle Smash Brothers.

After all it's all a video game with 70 plus characters. If legit one or two bugs you that much?

Just don't play them. Their presence isn't going to hurt you. Nor does it ruin Smash Brothers.

I mean I think it's fine to not like or want a certain character, getting mad or upset if they get in is where the line is drawn, it's truly not that deep

 

[Shroob]

Guy who accurately predicted characters a month before they're reveal > Stupid photoshop bull ****.

Stop being pissed off for no reason. What do you give a **** what I believe? You accused ME of throwing a tantrum???

Uhm, you're throwing a tantrum right now by slinging profanity and using all these ????, mate.

I like, am having a hard time taking you seriously when I feel like having a debate with you would turn into you sticking your thumbs in your ears and holding your tongue out the entire time.



The leak is bogus, people have gone into Brawl and Smash4's files and shown that KRool and Dark Samus were never once shown off in the way that the supposed 'leak' said they were. I don't see why this game would be any different.

 

[Aurane]

What is the one Chracther you dont want in smash guys

At this point I'll accept anyone.

But I will throw my **** if Nook gets in over Isabelle.

But not literally because that's just nasty.

 

[Sharkarat]

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game and in my top ten video games in general.

The Mask? It's pretty iconic, well-recognized to general gamers, maybe those more aligned with Nintendo and Zelda, but not super high up there.

Skull Kid as a character? Majora as a character? A non-entity outside of Zelda fans and people aligned with Zelda (Smash fans, etc.). He's not on the level of Bowser/Ganon/Sephiroth/Eggman/Dr. Wily/M. Bison/Kefka/[insert villain here], that's for sure. He's below K. Rool and perhaps even Ridley.

I'm not sure I would put kefka with that first group there. I feel he's in a similar situation where it's mostly the series fans that know him.

 

[Enchess]

A fellow Eggman supporter... we are a rare breed. How do we get him into Smash?

Mods. Getting a job at Nintendo and working your way to senior position so you can make the call. Genie.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Guys, Batman is iconic across all forms of media, he has good movies, good comics, good animated series and good video games. WHY ISN'T HE IN SMASH YET?!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yeah. And, two Zelda characters have seniority over Skull Kid. They are Impa (the most recurring character outside of the Triforce Holders) and Tingle (who was popular enough to get his own spinoff games).

I didn't realize we went by most recurring characters. "Everyone Toad and Waluigi have seniority over Rosalina."

Just throw popularity right out the window. I mean that's basically what you've done when you mentioned Tingle.

 

[Luigi The President]

I didn't realize we went by most recurring characters. "Everyone Toad and Waluigi have seniority over Rosalina."

Just throw popularity right out the window. I mean that's basically what you've done when you mentioned Tingle.

Except Tingle got his games due to his massive popularity in Japan.

 

[StormC]

I'm not sure I would put kefka with that first group there. I feel he's in a similar situation where it's mostly the series fans that know him.

Kefka is pretty well known, I knew of him before I even touched a Final Fantasy game. He's by far the most memorable part of 6 and is a character you fight multiple times throughout the game. Anyone over 20 who spent a decent amount of time discussing video games on the internet probably knows Kefka.

 

[blackghost]

I think you’re missing the context of my post entirely. I was comparing Snake’s theoretical amount of requests to an RE character if he wasn’t in. Never said no RE character should be in.

My point is people don’t think of these characters as being tied to Nintendo the same way they think of say, Mega Man.

thats ultimate hindsight bias. snake would not receive that many requests if he wasn't already in. especially factoring in what has happened to metal gear as a series.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Guy who accurately predicted 3 characters a month before all 3 are revealed > Stupid photoshop bull ****.

Do you know what random is? I never said 4chan had anything to do with it's credibility. Stop being pissed off for no reason. What do you give a **** what I believe? You accused ME of throwing a tantrum???

Yes, cause you ARE throwing a tantrum, chill out

 

[Will]

Ariga, who's the knight-ponytail-claw guy in Fateful Five? Killer Instinct, right?
BTW, I'd love to hear why you don't want Isabelle.

Fulgore.

I don't want Isabelle because of the same reason Sakurai didn't include BoTW Zelda in Smash. She's more a researcher than a fighter. Isabelle is an assistant more than a mayor. I know Isabelle has her reasons, but I just think she fits more in one spot more than the other for her role. Kinda like Waluigi, I guess.

 

[Idon]

best selling JRPG

Oh yeah, that was me.
It was mainly hyperbole, as I followed up with "selling a bajillion copies."

Whoops.

As for SMT, come on, even if the main franchise is niche, its demons are iconic no matter where you go in the world. Not to mention it's the mother of RPGs, coming out just one year after DQ1. Now that's some history.

As for those plushies, they're sold by Atlus here:
https://shop.atlus.com/en/product/458689/jack-frost-plush

 

[Enchess]

I didn't realize we went by most recurring characters. "Everyone Toad and Waluigi have seniority over Rosalina."

Just throw popularity right out the window. I mean that's basically what you've done when you mentioned Tingle.

You don't think Tingle is popular? He got multiple spinoffs and I don't think Nintendo keeps adding him in for the lols. Guy's got fans.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Guy who accurately predicted 3 characters a month before all 3 are revealed > Stupid photoshop bull ****.

Do you know what random is? I never said 4chan had anything to do with it's credibility. Stop being pissed off for no reason. What do you give a **** what I believe? You accused ME of throwing a tantrum???

Uhm, you're throwing a tantrum right now by slinging profanity and using all these ????, mate.

I like, am having a hard time taking you seriously when I feel like having a debate with you would turn into you sticking your thumbs in your ears and holding your tongue out the entire time.



The leak is bogus, people have gone into Brawl and Smash4's files and shown that KRool and Dark Samus were never once shown off in the way that the supposed 'leak' said they were. I don't see why this game would be any different.

Lame. No. Please. Stop. I’m too sensitive for you guys to tear our family apart.

Spoiler

[SPOILER/]

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Who wants to talk about literally anything else right now?

Uhm, you're throwing a tantrum right now by slinging profanity and using all these ????, mate.

I like, am having a hard time taking you seriously when I feel like having a debate with you would turn into you sticking your thumbs in your ears and holding your tongue out the entire time.



The leak is bogus, people have gone into Brawl and Smash4's files and shown that KRool and Dark Samus were never once shown off in the way that the supposed 'leak' said they were. I don't see why this game would be any different.

 

[StormC]

thats ultimate hindsight bias. snake would not receive that many requests if he wasn't already in. especially factoring in what has happened to metal gear as a series.

Dude... I just SAID he wouldn't receive a lot of request, in that post I made. What is your point of contention?