Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MainJPW]

Sonic discussion? Nice, that’s something I haven’t seen yet.

Anyway, with almost past stage returning. I unfortunately don’t expect to see many new stages, it’s the way as the characters.

And I doubt one of the few new areas will be a Sonic one, especially since all Sakurai can think of for Sonic is nothing but some lazy variant of Green Hill.

I had a wild idea for a Sonic level that I shared a couple days ago. Just think something like that would be neat.

But yeah, that's my problem with Sonic's stages in Smash. It's two Green Hill's. Sonic has such a wide variety of level themes and tropes across his gaming history and all we have is the over-saturated Green Hill trope.

Windy Valley with a Tornado gimmick, Death Egg Zone, Emerald Coast, Studiopolis, Ice Cap Zone, Eggman Land. There are SO MANY stages you could go with. I'm so sick of Green Hill Zone.

It’s unlikely since we already have Knuckles but I’d love to see Amy as an AT.

I’m also shocked Eggman hasn’t had a proper role in Smash outside of a trophy. No boss, stage harzard or anything.

I feel like the core cast should be represented in more than just the trophy section. Knuckles, NiGHTS and Amy as AT's, Eggman as a boss, Shadow as an echo and Tails as unique or semi-clone sounds nice. Bring back those Egg Robos from Smash Run. That might be asking for too much.

I'd also just like more SEGA stuff in general. I don't know if I want Arle Nadja but give me something Puyo Puyo, NiGHTS AT, Monkeyball AT. Opa Opa AT. Kazuma Kiryu Mii Fighter perhaps.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oooo, I have a Sonic level that fans will appreciate...

Soleanna

Do I get lavished with praise by Sonic fans now?

As a fan of the game? Do explain more. There's more than one area after all.

 

[MainJPW]

As a fan of the game? Do explain more.

You're a fan of 06? TIL.

There's more than one area after all.

Soleanna City? (that place was supposed to have cars and stop signs by the way) Soleanna Forest? Is that what you mean?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're a fan of 06? TIL.

Last 3D Sonic game I could actually enjoy till Lost World released, and I barely got into that one. I hate Unleashed's inability to control Sonic well and the day stage style is honestly boring to me. The boost mechanic is not really fun design and I like proper control of my character first and foremost. Beyond that, the homing attack sucks when you need to wait to lock-on. All it does is slow down the flow of gameplay. Though a specific issue in Unleashed is the pointless "press X to not die" Tails Stages which are beyond awful design and not remotely fun. I seriously enjoyed the Mach Speed sections more, and I still suck at those. At least I don't have to follow some dumb pattern or anything(yes, I despite the Tails Stages and that kind of "press these buttons in the perfect order" type of gameplay severely. I hate Rhythm gameplay and I can't get into it at all. It's the only reason I couldn't really enjoy Sonic Chronicles, which was otherwise a decent game, bar the eh music, anyway).

Let's note this is the reason I couldn't play Colors at all. And I vastly tried other stages beyond the crap Tails Stages too. I couldn't control Sonic well enough to beat most stages. I did like the Werehog, who while clearly weak and needed fine-tuning, actually controlled in a reasonable manner. Beyond that, a lot of these games have stages where you'll just slam into enemies or hazards over and over again, so that doesn't help either. Basically, they feel about as well-designed as the Mach Speed stages. And I'm not exaggerating in how much I compare them. I don't feel any different from either one. Same reason I couldn't get anywhere on Rush, beyond terrible stage design. Rush Adventure fixed it and gave more gameplay options(I will note I also dislike Sonic only and think they need to stop using Classic Sonic too, while fixing up the parkour system from Lost World and actually adding alternate gameplay styles. Let Classic Sonic be a different sub-series. The modern games don't even have their own identity anymore. They're just a Unleashed + Classic 2.0 with small improvements. I won't deny that Generations was a vast improvement, though. Console only, of course).

Soleanna City? (that place was supposed to have cars and stop signs by the way) Soleanna Forest? Is that what you mean?

Yep. Soleanna consists of more than one area, so I'm not sure what Zinith intends to represent at all. A moving stage? I mean, I think it's safe to say he meant it as a joke.

 

[KingBroly]

I enjoyed Sonic 06 because it was so awful and I could learn how bad the game was designed. A fantastic learning tool.

Echo Fighters seem like Patchwork characters to me. They're just characters created that aren't fully created, but ones that have most of their design come from other characters in the game. So at E3 they show them as 'oh, they're just like these other characters except for one thing' and then during the Smash Direct we see that they can have different animations and different moves from other characters in the same series. I imagine in the next Direct we'll see Echoes that take moves from characters in different series and maybe one or two other things.

 

[Zinith]

I think it's safe to say he meant it as a joke.

Nothing gets past you Irene

But in all seriousness, I'd be down with Egg Carrier as a stage. I have fond memories of Sonic Adventure...

 

[Zippo]

Imran from Game informer hinted at a Square character?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nothing gets past you Irene

But in all seriousness, I'd be down with Egg Carrier as a stage. I have fond memories of Sonic Adventure...

Let's be fair, few people want content from the game anyway. I mean, songs are seriously all I think are good to translate to Smash. Well, a unique Shadow too, using stuff from his own game, Battle, and 06, his most unique appearances and all, but eh.

I honestly am racking my brain to think of a fun stage that could be translated over from 06, actually. Crisis City doesn't work all that well as it doesn't have a lot of well-made platforms. I forget the other names beyond Wave Ocean, which doesn't work either. That Jungle stage might, though. It has some bungee cord-like vines that could be used, a lot of platforms as well as water. Hmm....

 

[pholtos]

Cryptic Castle (Shadow the Hedgehog) and its buttons that flip the stage upside down could be neat.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The stage hazard for the Sonic '06 stage should be glitches.

Like the ground suddenly doesn't work properly and you fall through the stage

 

[Zinith]

The stage hazard for the Sonic '06 stage should be glitches.

Like the ground suddenly doesn't work properly and you fall through the stage

Or touching a portion of the stage locks you into an animation you can't escape from...

The true Sonic the Hedgehog experience...

 

[MSmariosonic]

Yeah those stages wouldn't have been of any USE

Get it?

Argh..

 

[Demonslyer401]

Cryptic Castle (Shadow the Hedgehog) and its buttons that flip the stage upside down could be neat.

you're thinking of Hang Castle from Sonic Heroes

 

[MainJPW]

I honestly am racking my brain to think of a fun stage that could be translated over from 06, actually. Crisis City doesn't work all that well as it doesn't have a lot of well-made platforms. I forget the other names beyond Wave Ocean, which doesn't work either. That Jungle stage might, though. It has some bungee cord-like vines that could be used, a lot of platforms as well as water. Hmm....

I started thinking of this, too. Tropical Jungle, Flame Core, Dusty Desert, Aquatic Base, White Acropolis, Wave Ocean and Kingdom Valley.

Why have Flame Core when we have Red Mountain and Lava Reef?

Dusty Desert is lame.

Wave Ocean is an Emerald Coast ripoff.

Why have White Acropolis when we have Ice Cap Zone from 3 and SA1?

Aquatic Base is just Ocean Base from Sonic Advance 3 but lamer.

Radical Train is forgettable.

Kingdom Valley was promoted heavily pre-release and the first stage revealed. They'd probably go with that.

You could ride wind currents but then it would just be Windy Valley. I wonder if they would ever combine elements from certain stages. Tropical Jungle and Angel Island perhaps?

Cryptic Castle (Shadow the Hedgehog) and its buttons that flip the stage upside down could be neat.

Hang Castle from Heroes did that with switches that flipped the castle up-side-down and vice versa. That's the level you're thinking of.

 

[Jetsurge]

The stage hazard for the Sonic '06 stage should be glitches.

Like the ground suddenly doesn't work properly and you fall through the stage

No it should be Silver. "IT'S NO USE!"

 

[MSmariosonic]

Radical Train is forgettable.

Really?

That stage always came to my mind when someone mentions 06.

 

[MainJPW]

Really?

That stage always came to my mind when someone mentions 06.

I forgot to list it initially. I remember a train and conveyor belts over a bottomless pit in some ugly canyon.

It's just really bland to look at compared to literally any other stage in the game. Everything's ****ing brown.

 

[pholtos]

you're thinking of Hang Castle from Sonic Heroes

Hang Castle from Heroes did that with switches that flipped the castle up-side-down and vice versa. That's the level you're thinking of.

Ah right yes, whoops. Then that. Shadow's involved in Heroes so it works.

 

[MainJPW]

Oh look they're playing Smash again.

I did not expect to see a Boshi mention in the chat.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Last 3D Sonic game I could actually enjoy till Lost World released, and I barely got into that one. I hate Unleashed's inability to control Sonic well and the day stage style is honestly boring to me. The boost mechanic is not really fun design and I like proper control of my character first and foremost. Beyond that, the homing attack sucks when you need to wait to lock-on. All it does is slow down the flow of gameplay. Though a specific issue in Unleashed is the pointless "press X to not die" Tails Stages which are beyond awful design and not remotely fun. I seriously enjoyed the Mach Speed sections more, and I still suck at those. At least I don't have to follow some dumb pattern or anything(yes, I despite the Tails Stages and that kind of "press these buttons in the perfect order" type of gameplay severely. I hate Rhythm gameplay and I can't get into it at all. It's the only reason I couldn't really enjoy Sonic Chronicles, which was otherwise a decent game, bar the eh music, anyway).

Let's note this is the reason I couldn't play Colors at all. And I vastly tried other stages beyond the crap Tails Stages too. I couldn't control Sonic well enough to beat most stages. I did like the Werehog, who while clearly weak and needed fine-tuning, actually controlled in a reasonable manner. Beyond that, a lot of these games have stages where you'll just slam into enemies or hazards over and over again, so that doesn't help either. Basically, they feel about as well-designed as the Mach Speed stages. And I'm not exaggerating in how much I compare them. I don't feel any different from either one. Same reason I couldn't get anywhere on Rush, beyond terrible stage design. Rush Adventure fixed it and gave more gameplay options(I will note I also dislike Sonic only and think they need to stop using Classic Sonic too, while fixing up the parkour system from Lost World and actually adding alternate gameplay styles. Let Classic Sonic be a different sub-series. The modern games don't even have their own identity anymore. They're just a Unleashed + Classic 2.0 with small improvements. I won't deny that Generations was a vast improvement, though. Console only, of course).


Yep. Soleanna consists of more than one area, so I'm not sure what Zinith intends to represent at all. A moving stage? I mean, I think it's safe to say he meant it as a joke.

Really? In terms of Unleashed vs 06--the issue with the mach speed sections was that you couldn't really control Sonic and it was a high speed death trap. I did like how Sonic 06 felt more like the Adventure games in terms of the structure and normal stage layouts, but I much prefer Unleashed/Generations style gameplay. Have a game with the structure of 06 (sans glitches) and the gameplay of Generations, and we're good in my book.

Personally my dream Sonic stage in Smash would be Crazy Gadget.

 

[PSIGuy]

If Square Enix's composers are going to be huge ***** who don't license more than 2 songs then I can honestly say I hard pass on any more Square Enix content. I'd rather not have Crono if it means we're spared from a flaccid half-assed implementation sabotaged by the company that owns the character.

 

[MainJPW]

Have a game with the structure of 06 (sans glitches) and the gameplay of Generations, and we're good in my book.

I don't like the sound of that. The choppy controls of the slower speed gameplay from the Boost games would ruin those levels more than the glitches.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

Kind of a random choice, but I'd want Tropical Resort from Sonic Colors. Mostly because I really love Sonic Colors, but also because it's visually distinct from the other two Sonic stages.

Also because I want Eggman's announcements to play in the background during fights.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If Square Enix's composers are going to be huge ***** who don't license more than 2 songs then I can honestly say I hard pass on any more Square Enix content. I'd rather not have Crono if it means we're spared from a flaccid half-***** implementation sabotaged by the company that owns the character.

I mean to be fair Nobuo Uematsu's songs are particularly pricey as the man himself owns them and charges extra on royalties iirc

 

[Lyndis_]

Geno and 2 songs > No Geno and no songs

 

[Deleted member]

If Square Enix's composers are going to be huge ***** who don't license more than 2 songs then I can honestly say I hard pass on any more Square Enix content. I'd rather not have Crono if it means we're spared from a flaccid half-***** implementation sabotaged by the company that owns the character.

I'd rather have Crono as playable with one song than none at all. You don't know what you're saying man, Ridley got me hyped but Crono would turn me into Etika.

 

[Sephazon]

If Square Enix's composers are going to be huge ***** who don't license more than 2 songs then I can honestly say I hard pass on any more Square Enix content. I'd rather not have Crono if it means we're spared from a flaccid half-***** implementation sabotaged by the company that owns the character.

I believe that's due to Nobuo Uematsu's licensing of the songs, not Square Enix, though I could be mistaken. Nobuo Uematsu hasn't even been a Squeenix employee in a number of years.

 

[Jetsurge]

If Square Enix's composers are going to be huge ***** who don't license more than 2 songs then I can honestly say I hard pass on any more Square Enix content. I'd rather not have Crono if it means we're spared from a flaccid half-***** implementation sabotaged by the company that owns the character.

Mario RPG's composer already has many of her songs in the game and has already done remixes for this game like Noisy Notebook and Vega Stage.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

My pick for a Sonic Stage would be Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2.

Just keep the ding-dang-dong enemies in the background and make the stage out of level set pieces.

 

[MainJPW]

He won with Ganoncide?

 

[Jetsurge]

I'd rather have Crono as playable with one song than none at all. You don't know what you're saying man, Ridley got me hyped but Crono would turn me into Etika.

Nintendo didn't even put Chrono Trigger on the SNES classic so I think it's unlikely

 

[PLATINUM7]

How is it Sakurai got Uematsu to compose Brawl's theme but we can't get more than 2 of his FF songs in Smash?

Since Uematsu is freelance now, I'm more inclined to think the lack of FF music is more to do with Square, than Uematsu wanting more for royalties.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I don't like the sound of that. The choppy controls of the slower speed gameplay from the Boost games would ruin those levels more than the glitches.

Oh, I didn't make it clear in my message--I liked the structure of the game, where there were three stories and three characters each. A hub world like the Adventure games. The newer games feel so diluted in comparison, and I feel like they're afraid to make Sonic's friends playable because of some of the backlash--but the alternatives, Sonic as a werewolf and Classic Sonic doesn't compare to the variety and replayability. The actual stages wouldn't work with Generations gameplay, not sure why I implied that.

If Square Enix's composers are going to be huge ***** who don't license more than 2 songs then I can honestly say I hard pass on any more Square Enix content. I'd rather not have Crono if it means we're spared from a flaccid half-***** implementation sabotaged by the company that owns the character.

Yeah, it's why I'm a lot less certain when it comes to Square Enix. I actually think Microsoft would be more open with their IP than what Square Enix has shown (but the problem there is Nintendo might not be so open). And it's a shame because there are so many great Square Enix IP that would work well in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo didn't even put Chrono Trigger on the SNES classic so I think it's unlikely

I know all my wanted characters have as much of a chance as Goku, you guys don't have to remind me D:

 

[Jetsurge]

My pick for a Sonic Stage would be Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2.

Just keep the ding-dang-dong enemies in the background and make the stage out of level set pieces.

Wait this isn't Metropolis....
This is Grand Metropolis! wohohohohoh

 

[RileyXY1]

How is it Sakurai got Uematsu to compose Brawl's theme but we can't get more than 2 of his FF songs in Smash?

That was back when he was a member of Square Enix.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Really? In terms of Unleashed vs 06--the issue with the mach speed sections was that you couldn't really control Sonic and it was a high speed death trap. I did like how Sonic 06 felt more like the Adventure games in terms of the structure and normal stage layouts, but I much prefer Unleashed/Generations style gameplay. Have a game with the structure of 06 (sans glitches) and the gameplay of Generations, and we're good in my book.

Personally my dream Sonic stage in Smash would be Crazy Gadget.

I didn't feel any tangible difference with the day stages honestly. Yes, there was slightly more control, but there wasn't a point to trying to slow down, make any real decisions, just basically nothing more than a few reaction moves and "press this button to boost/be invincible". I wasn't impressed nor felt like it actually was honestly better than the Mach Speed sections. Adding invincibility frames honestly is not an improvement to a bad design. The boost mechanic has only existed while we've had poor stage design with a serious case of terrible enemy placement too. There's literally no reason to make invincibility frames(essentially) the only way to win. It wouldn't have made the Mach Speed sections any better either. It didn't honestly improve the stage design at all. The non-Boost stuff was just vastly better in the later games because it required more skill and for you to take your time while still going fast to some degree.

Boost just didn't improve anything, it literally was there while we still couldn't properly control Sonic or do much either but react to spikes/jumps/enemies with little room for error. It's just a somewhat slower mach speed section by design, and I think it's an awful design that needs to stop being used. At least parkour did add something proper to the series by making all those walls/etc. you'll run into worthwhile and not just an easy way to screw up.

 

[PLATINUM7]

That was back when he was a member of Square Enix.

He left Square in 2004

 

[NintenRob]

I just want to leave this here and remind everyone how far we've come

I hope we see a scene similar to this in the final game, it's just so ominous and I'd like to see it used before a final challenge of whatever that spirits mode is.

 

[MainJPW]

Wait this isn't Metropolis....
This is grand metropolis! wohohohohoh

Hold the phone. Grand Metropolis Zone would make a nice looking stage. Futuristic, nice use of colours. Flying cars as hazards? That would probably be obnoxious.

Look at how pretty it is in the intro of Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games.