Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

uh, no they don't??? we already know from things said by sakurai himself that echo characters are easy to develop and happen late in development, after all the other actual newcomers are developed. they're not even counted as separate characters on the website, the number everyone freaked out about specifically excluded them

they aren't real newcomers, this is undeniable

Semantics.

A newcomer isn't just someone who has a unique playstyle. A newcomer is any playable character who has not appeared in Smash before.

Daisy, Richter, Dark Samus, Chrom are DEFINITELY newcomers and to say otherwise is not only rude to Sakurai's efforts to increase the newcomer count by adding cool extra characters that people want, but basically telling fans of those characters? ''Your character doesn't count."

 

[Opossum]

People have to stop overrating how different Chrom is, all we saw different with him was a balanced blade like Lucina, taking his up-b from another clone-compatible character (that most people also thought he was going to be Echo'd from to begin with), and possibly u-tilt being from another clone-compatible character (we don't know yet if Roy took Marcina's u-tilt back or not). We have no idea how Chrom and Roy compare in most facets, Chrom could very well have the exact same movement/physics specs and frame data, and have all his other moves being the exact same to Roy's except for a balanced blade, which would make him less different from Roy than Dr. Mario is from Mario. At best you can call Chrom an Echo with some slight hybridization, not a "semi-Echo" as I've seen some people claiming.



I think Dixie's chances of being a real newcomer are slim, but I think she is very likely as an Echo; even when overshadowed by K. Rool she still had a respectable support base and was certainly a much more popular demand than any of the Echoes we currently have, while being a prominent character in her own right who even got a relevancy boost, plus she was planned for some playable capacity back in Brawl. If she doesn't make it in the base roster, I think it could be because she was intentionally held off to be given the full newcomer treatment in DLC.



Don't mix up a character being considered as being "wanted" or "planned"; Ayumi was never "wanted" and was just a mere consideration that Sakurai passed over, and Takamaru wasn't even really considered in Melee (Sakurai was just responding to someone asking about Takamaru and dismissed it in a snide manner) while Takamaru was just another briefly considered character for Smash 4 that was quickly passed over. People thinking these two were ever "wanted" or "planned" really needs to reread Source Gaming's Definitive Unused Fighters article.

Geno is the only currently unplayable character we know of where Sakurai outright said he wanted to make the character playable in a past game.

That's not Marth's up tilt. That's the initial hit of Aether.

Unlike Ike with Ragnell, Chrom doesn't throw Falchion before he ascends. He just does an upward sword strike. This is true to Awakening, where the move he does in the Two Falchions cutscene doesn't involve a sword throw.

 

[Deleted member]

So let's see...

We've possibly got...
Skull Kid
Gen 7 Pokken that isn't Owliver Queen or Diamond Dog
Square Enix character
The three characters from that one leak that gets this thread into a frothing rage when it's mentioned (GardevoirGothitelleMario2)
Dante (unless DMC leaker is trolling Smash community)
Shantae (if that free DLC meant anything)
Another Xenoblade character (if that slip of the tounge meant anything)

Any I missed?

As far as what recent leaks cover? No, that's about everything. I thought someone had mentioned that the DmC stuff was fake, though.

 

[Mutsukki]

uh, no they don't??? we already know from things said by sakurai himself that echo characters are easy to develop and happen late in development, after all the other actual newcomers are developed. they're not even counted as separate characters on the website, the number everyone freaked out about specifically excluded them

they aren't real newcomers, this is undeniable

They absolutely do. They're new to the series, they're newcomers.

The fact that people would still be VERY disappointed if the game came out like it is right now absolutely baffles me, Jesus Christ.

 

[Bionichute]

gardevor/gothitelle is about as real a leak as the one with steenee in it

 

[Deleted member]

Semantics.

A newcomer isn't just someone who has a unique playstyle. A newcomer is any playable character who has not appeared in Smash before.

Daisy, Richter, Dark Samus, Chrom are DEFINITELY newcomers and to say otherwise is not only rude to Sakurai's efforts to increase the newcomer count by adding cool extra characters that people want, but basically telling fans of those characters? ''Your character doesn't count."

Thank you.
Even if they are very similar, echos count as newcomers.

A newcomer means someone who is coming and is new.

Daisy, Richter, Dark Samus and Chrom are newcomers like you said and they have never been in a Smash game as playable until Ultimate.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

What slip of the tongue?

 

[Deleted member]

The fact that people would still be VERY disappointed if the game came out like it is right now absolutely baffles me, Jesus Christ.

I won't be satisfied until we get PSY as a Just Dance rep. /s

 

[Deleted member]

That's not Marth's up tilt. That's the initial hit of Aether.

Unlike Ike with Ragnell, Chrom doesn't throw Falchion before he ascends. He just does an upward sword strike. This is true to Awakening, where the move he does in the Two Falchions cutscene doesn't involve a sword throw.

I mean, that's still Marth's Up Tilt animation

 

[SvartWolf]

y of them are protagonists of their game. Ryu, Bayonetta, Sonic, Cloud, Shulk, Megaman, Pacman... Do I need to even continue? I really don't see Heihac

I think that if there is a series that may have an villian character before an hero character is Soul Calibur. since Nightmare is literally teh face of teh franchise, and at this point the physical manifestation of soul edge, which is the biggest actor in most soul calibur games (yeah... "Soul calibur" doesn't do much in the games.. go figure)

Still, a similar argument could be made of Dracula and castlevania, but unlike Dracula, Nightmare have had a playable status on all the games (bar ironically soul edge) and as much as the recent storylines want to push for sigfried, there havent been a clear cut hero on soul calibur, mostly focusing on Killik and company, sigfried and company and Sophitia and family, withouth one being clearer on the spotlight than the others. Ironically , nightmare is still more iconic than the 3 most iconic Soul Calibur heroes.

 

[Deleted member]

YOUR REACTION

If we get a double reveal trailer for Shantae & Skull Kid at the Nindies Direct?

Spoiler

Shantae would have me going:

"Yeeesssss...more indie stuff in Smash. All according to keikaku."

*Proceeds to laugh in indie*

Skull Kid would pretty much leave me like this:

 

[Kaeltor]

So people often site the fact that FF only has 2 songs (so far). I think its important to keep in mind that Sakurai may have wanted us to see this and think "well there's not going to be any other Square Enix characters..." That way he can surprise us with Geno and/or some other Square/FF characters.

Or there really are only 2 songs in the game, in which case

 

[Bionichute]

The fact that people would still be VERY disappointed if the game came out like it is right now absolutely baffles me, Jesus Christ.

not everyone has the money to buy everything they want, and here in canada the game costs like a hundred bucks, which is a third of my budget
i'd actually like the only game i'll get that month to have characters i want to play as besides k rool and ridley

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Was Crash planned for PSASBR DLC but ultimately canceled? I know Dart (Legend of Dragoon) was. Damn shame too...

I've seen before people saying that the PSASBR developers planned to have Crash and Spyro in the game, but Activision demanded too much for Sony to agree to the licensing, I don't know if that's actually confirmed or not though.

I could be wrong, but wasn't august 2014 when the smash 4 roster got leaked?

That is when the ESRB leak happened, but Ninka Kiwi leaked the entire remaining roster here on Smashboards nearly a month before that.

Echos count as newcomers though.

Also did King K. Rool slim her chances or not? Just curious.

Echoes aren't full-fledged newcomers though, nor are they treated as such, hence me using the term "real newcomer".

K. Rool slimmed her chances of being a "real newcomer" as I'm a doubtful in a smaller pool of newcomers Sakurai will have two of them from DK and I don't know if he's still willing to make traditional semi-clones, especially when Dixie is obvious Echo material with a couple slight tweaks.

 

[ErenJager]

All the text leaks are bs as far as im concerned. People are just guessing likely and highly speculated characters amd claiming its a leak, and when they get it wrong "oh that was from the unreliable source".

It really appears that obvious, i'm dumbfounded people have faith in it.

 

[Opossum]

I mean, that's still Marth's Up Tilt animation

I know. I just mean that, functionally, it's not his up tilt.

A lot of people mistakenly believe Chrom's up tilt is Marth's.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

not everyone has the money to buy everything they want, and here in canada the game costs like a hundred bucks, which is a third of my budget
i'd actually like the only game i'll get that month to have characters i want to play as besides k rool and ridley

I think the point is how the **** are the only characters you want to play K rool and Ridley

 

[Deleted member]

Echoes aren't full-fledged newcomers though, nor are they treated as such, hence me using the term "real newcomer".

Lets put this. So lets say a kid who played very similar to another kid who was already in the football group wanted to join, and he did. Would he be considered "kind of a new member"? No.

Echos are real newcomers.

 

[Bionichute]

I think the point is how the **** are the only characters you want to play K rool and Ridley

to me a smash game is the new characters, and if the new characters aren't good then its a disappointment. thats a big part of the reason why smash 4 is my least favorite of them all, because most of the new characters are ones i don't like

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

to me a smash game is the new characters, and if the new characters aren't good then its a disappointment. thats a big part of the reason why smash 4 is my least favorite of them all, because most of the new characters are ones i don't like

I can't hold this sentiment as two of my mains in smash are Ices and Marth, characters I never knew existed without Smash

 

[itsaxelol]

Stupid question- is dash dancing like in melee or PM in? Or are the dash dances I'm seeing ridiculous tighter inputs like in brawl and smash 4? They seem to have MUCH more distance than brawl and 4. Is it a simple, lax window to input or what?

Bumping this

 

[Deleted member]

All the text leaks are bs as far as im concerned. People are just guessing likely and highly speculated characters amd claiming its a leak, and when they get it wrong "oh that was from the unreliable source".

It really appears that obvious, i'm dumbfounded people have faith in it.

Oh, so you believe Simon was a lucky guess?

 

[Paperchampion23]

So checking back how the directs went back in 2017… a Nindies happening this 28th is very similar to having one on the 30th last year… Early september direct should be happening even business wise they need to announce general games already, which is probably why they are getting away all the nindies now in two nindies direct before that happens. It's almost time for a general nintendo direct really.

View attachment 159348

I like these odds. I can wait 3 more weeks if it happens then. (Hopefully we get something there so we have more to talk about cause we all just keep going in circles smh)

 

[Bionichute]

I can't hold this sentiment as two of my mains in smash are Ices and Marth, characters I never knew existed without Smash

i mean it also doesnt help that all the characters that i wanted to play as in smash 4 sucked, which is something to worry about in this game potentially
they even ruined my main man dedede in 4 rip

 

[ErenJager]

Oh, so you believe Simon was a lucky guess?

Uh stealth_ leaked it before verge did.
So yeah I do.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

That's not Marth's up tilt. That's the initial hit of Aether.

Unlike Ike with Ragnell, Chrom doesn't throw Falchion before he ascends. He just does an upward sword strike. This is true to Awakening, where the move he does in the Two Falchions cutscene doesn't involve a sword throw.

Thanks for the correction, in that case that's just one less potential difference from Roy then.

View attachment 159352
Lets put this. So lets say a kid who played very similar to another kid who was already in the football group wanted to join, and he did. Would he be considered "kind of new"? No.

Echos are real newcomers.

Echoes are not the same as an actual standalone playable character and it's made blatantly clear in what they are in all official material, but if you want to argue semantics in my usage of "real newcomer", than simply replace it with "non-Echo newcomer" in what I said before to make yourself happy.

 

[Opossum]

Uh stealth_ leaked it before verge did.
So yeah I do.

Then you're just in denial at this point if you don't think Vergeben has legit info.

This truly is Gematsu all over again.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Echoes are technically newcomers, but c'mon, it's not that hard to figure out what people are trying to say. If all we got was a few more echoes with no more unique character a lot of people would be disappointed. I'm already content with the roster, but an echo doesn't have the same impact as a completely unique fighter. People can be happy with echoes and the roster in general and still feel they don't bring the same thing to the table as unique fighters do.

 

[Bionichute]

it was brought up last night that underscore stealth was full of bs right

 

[MSmariosonic]

The amount of content Ultimate has should make the game atleast 80 dollars

I don't see how one looks only at the newcomers when thinking of buying the game.

There is so much other stuff in the game that is just Sakurai rewarding us as if we've all funded the game for years or somethin'

And yet here we are with a price tag that's way off when putting it next to the manhours Ultimate took in it's development.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Bumping this

Judging from the K. Rool video, it seems like it. K. Rool was dash dancing like crazy with little lag.

 

[ErenJager]

Then you're just in denial at this point if you don't think Vergeben has legit info.

This truly is Gematsu all over again.

The facts of verge's leak is his correct stuff is either highly likely or previously leaked from another noteable leaker.

He has yet to deliver a "leak" that is originally his or unsafe.

I'm not in denial. Im looking at it objectively.

Its you with the confirmation bias, my friend.

Like honestly you seriously believe when verge is incorrect... All he has to say is 'oh i didnt trust that source any way' but my other leaks are good. Like come on.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Bumping this

It's not Melee-styled Dash Dancing, Brawl/Smash 4-styled Dash Dancing is in but now after your initial dash you cancel it with another dash in the opposite direction, however it's not fully understood yet.

 

[Deleted member]

Echoes are technically newcomers, but c'mon, it's not that hard to figure out what people are trying to say. If all we got was a few more echoes with no more unique character a lot of people would be disappointed. I'm already content with the roster, but an echo doesn't have the same impact as a completely unique fighter. People can be happy with echoes and the roster in general and still feel they don't bring the same thing to the table as unique fighters do.

They may have similar moves, but echos can bring more to the table if anything than a newcomer can. It all depends on your opinion.

Newcomers definitely have more flash and are more unique movesets, but in character wise, echos are still new.

Echos are real newcomers.

 

[Opossum]

The facts of verge's leak is his correct stuff is either highly likely or previously leaked from another noteable leaker.

He has yet to deliver a "leak" that is originally his or unsafe.

I'm not in denial. Im looking at it objectively.

Its you with the confirmation bias, my friend.

Snake was not a safe call. Ridley was not a safe call. Simon, who was only claimed by well-known bull-****ter stealth, was not a safe call.

 

[DarkFalcon]

The amount of content Ultimate has should make the game atleast 80 dollars

I don't see how one looks only at the newcomers when thinking of buying the game.

There is so much other stuff in the game that is just Sakurai rewarding us as if we've all funded the game for years or somethin'

And yet here we are with a price tag that's way off when putting it next to the manhours Ultimate took in it's development.

Smash is a fighting game. Generally what people care the most about in fighting games are characters. Just because people talk about characters it doesn't mean they don't care for anything else, but talking about if Smash Run will return or not is not as interesting or as fun to talk about as brand new characters from your childhood joining the roster.

 

[Mutsukki]

not everyone has the money to buy everything they want, and here in canada the game costs like a hundred bucks, which is a third of my budget
i'd actually like the only game i'll get that month to have characters i want to play as besides k rool and ridley

I mean the game costs even more where I live, so I can relate to that, but that's not where I was getting at all. The game is well worth it's price already, I don't get playing Smash Bros purely for the total amount of newcomers added.

 

[Megadoomer]

What slip of the tongue?

In an interview, Bill Trinen referred to new characters like Bayonetta, Cloud, and the Xenoblade characters, which seems to hint that this game will have more than one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/90huit/did_bill_trinen_just_slip_up_and_reveal_that/

 

[MSmariosonic]

Echoes are a 1/2th of a newcomer

That's atleast how I look at it.

So I still consider them newcomers

 

[Bionichute]

They may have similar moves, but echos can bring more to the table if anything than a newcomer can. It all depends on your opinion.

Newcomers definitely have more flash and are more unique movesets, but in character wise, echos are still new.

Echos are real newcomers.

im not sure how you think "a different looking missile" brings more to the table than what dark samus could actually do but whatever