Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[StormC]

Meta Ridley is also on Ridley's site profile, in one of the pictures. They wouldn't do that if he was an echo fighter.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Sandbag for final boss?

Sandbag is the true mastermind behind Tabuu and the Master Core sourge and nearly destroyed the Smashiverse.

 

[Idon]

Honestly, it's still a great game..Hyrule Warriors did something similar with only having OoT, TP, and SS along with OCs and MM as DLC..at least FE Warriors had 5..even if it was just Lyn & Celica for two of them..should have expanded that with Ike and Roy as DLC instead of saving them for the next game..

Yeah but HW also had everyone be completely unique and had DLC to represent everyone else.

So far, Fire Emblem Warriors seems like it's far worse as a fan-service package, especially considering Hyrule Warriors came out years before.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Technically Melee and Wii U are tied with 5 each, though I think people don't count Flat Zone 1...

Flat Zone 1 is technically already in the game because Flat Zone X.

 

[joshoctober16]

You say that, yet Smash Wii U has the most amount of missing stages yet to be in Ultimate, so it's not without precedent.

i sorta agree , but all stages that are missing that arnt the yoshi stage have reasons of not being in...
srsly why is that yoshi stage cut for???

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I wonder why they haven't shown Dillon yet?

Taking him out completely? Upgraded to character?

As much as I would like Ray or Isaac, Having Dillon be a character would be pretty interesting. (Dillon still is going as a series.)

But honestly, we could apply that to Saki too.

In the end, we could say that they could get upgraded. But we don't know.

 

[Schnee117]

"So yeah let's ignore 80% of the franchise and uhh, just get the first game, and the 2 recent games."

"Lets focus on the original game and the ones people have actually played plus two extras, let's also not blow our load so we actually have a big selling point for future stuff"

The difference is that in Hyrule's case, no one was a clone.

Characters being clones in most cases makes sense to a degree because FE is class based, what matters is the stats. Ryoma and Owain have similar movesets but Owain has a magic stat equal to his strength stat so you can put stuff on him to get him to target Res instead of Defense. That is what FE is about.

That said I do have a few issues with some, namely Celica as a Marth clone and having the same archer moveset four times. At least have Takumi and Sakura retain the same moveset and then change Anna and Niles a bit because they aren't Hoshidan royalty.

 

[Deleted member]

srsly why is that yoshi stage cut for???

Being a bad stage?

 

[Enderwoman]

srsly why is that yoshi stage cut for???

probably because the second form is too small and scattered for 8 players. but then again, the third phase of Paper Mario's stage is coming back so maybe it's just for no reason

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

i sorta agree , but all stages that are missing that arnt the yoshi stage have reasons of not being in...
srsly why is that yoshi stage cut for???

Dude, Jingle Hijinxs was great!

And Orbital Gate Assault at least deserves props for being gorgeous.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Apparently Dillon's latest game didn't do so good

The creators are hoping for a way to get more exposure to the character

And have talked about the possibility of making a Rolling Western RPG game

 

[Zinith]

Don't remind me that Woolly World is cut for no apparent reason.

And no, I don't buy that particle effects excuse. The Switch can work around that...

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

This

What potential boss characters could be weilding a gun?

That's something I'm curious about. The only idea I have is something in Metroid, but I can't think of anything

maybe the Shogun mech from Star Fox 64, AKA the “Cocky Little Freaks!” Boss on sector Y.

The guns aren’t an exact match, but the gun would be a good fit if Sakurai updates his design. Seem like a random boss idea but its the only one I can think of that uses a gun.

 

[joshoctober16]

probably because the second form is too small and scattered for 8 players

oh never thought of that.... good point

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

maybe the Shogun mech from Star Fox 64, AKA the “Cocky Little Freaks!” Boss on sector Y.
View attachment 158760
The guns aren’t an exact match, but the gun would be a good fit if Sakurai updates his design. Seem like a random boss idea but its the only one I can think of that uses a gun.

He's calling others cocky because of his tiny gun

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Honestly, it's still a great game..Hyrule Warriors did something similar with only having OoT, TP, and SS along with OCs and MM as DLC..at least FE Warriors had 5..even if it was just Lyn & Celica for two of them..should have expanded that with Ike and Roy as DLC instead of saving them for the next game..

Yeah, but here's the thing with that. Most Zelda games share characters between them or all the most popular characters come from 1 or 2 games with the others being rather deep cuts. They had the chance to go full fan service blowout with Fire Emblem across 13 different games and they only chose to bring two characters from anything that wasn't FE1, Awakening, or Fates. And neither of them were Ike. The single most popular character in Fire Emblem wasn't included.

I mean **** dawg, I wanted to play as The Black Knight, Eliwood, Roy, Hector, Ephraim, Elincia, Hector, Greil, etc. but they limited themselves to hell. The game was an incredible disappointment for me. No, Lyn and Celica doesn't make up for the fact they neglected 75% of the other FE games.

In all fairness, it would have been really difficult for them to fully represent more than just a couple games. They could barely even represent three even when they took shortcuts. Not really points in its favor for longtime FE fans but at least there's an actual reason its roster was so much of a mess. I'm personally still salty that Camilla was the only playable wyvern rider at release. I was so certain they'd at least put Minerva in the base game.My personal favorite theory is that his Meta Ridley skin just wasn't polished enough yet to put in the demo build, so instead they put in the black alt as a placeholder. If he was an echo fighter, I feel like they would have said so during the initial reveal.

Have you seen the Warriors Orochi Games? There's literally hundreds of characters in each one of those games. The excuse that it would've been difficult for them to reach out to other games because there is so many is a poor excuse. Warriors Orochi pulls from Samurai Warriors, Dynasty Warriors, Legends of Troy, Blade Storm, Ninja Gaiden, Dead or Alive, and a couple more that I can't even think of right now. Pulling from more than just 3 being too much to ask is just incorrect considering Omega's tendency for fanservice. There was really no excuse to leave all those characters out except for them trying to get the game out as fast as possible, which honestly just made the game feel cheap to me. Fire Emblem Warriors is "Missed Opportunities and Disappointment The Game"

Anywho, the reason I actually want Black Knight and, more so, Hector in Smash is because of how much they neglected the old fans in Warriors. Now we got to depend on a completely different franchise to get our fanservice from.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

People need to chill with the whole Echo fighter.

Like Meta Ridley,Dry Bowser? Come on people

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

People need to chill with the whole Echo fighter.

Like Meta Ridley,Dry Bowser? Come on people

It’s 2018 and people want more clones.....

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Apparently Dillon's latest game didn't do so good

The creators are hoping for a way to get more exposure to the character

And have talked about the possibility of making a Rolling Western RPG game

Honestly, being on the 3DS and NOT being a retail product hurt it's chances of success with its localization with PAL and US countries.

 

[Zinith]

oh never thought of that.... good point

Woolly World in Smash 4 wasn't available for 8 player Smash for that very reason. Is it confirmed that ALL stages in Ultimate have to be available in 8-Player Smash? Cause if that's the case, several stages from Smash 4 to Ultimate don't make the cut...

 

[joshoctober16]

People need to chill with the whole Echo fighter.

Like Meta Ridley,Dry Bowser? Come on people

stuff like that should be alts , but thats just my opinion

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Honestly, being on the 3DS and NOT being a retail product hurt it's chances of success with its localization with PAL and US countries.

I was hoping for a retail release. I was so disappointed when I found out only Japan got it.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

stuff like that should be alts , but thats just my opinion

Fully agree. Like wtf would people want Dry Bowser as a character. The whole echo definition has made some of the characters suggestions really dumb

 

[Idon]

two extras, let's also not blow our load so we actually have a big selling point for future stuff

Saving things as a future selling point is a stupid idea that assumes you'd succeed anyway regardless of your finished product. Also, I'm quite sure that's just not the developer saying during the interview "support this game and maybe we'll include your favorites in the next! nudge nudge, wink wink!"

And besides that, I could hardly call Awakening and Fates "bonuses" when they consist of more than 2/3s of the game's cast, including DLC.

Characters being clones in most cases makes sense to a degree because FE is class based, what matters is the stats. Ryoma and Owain have similar movesets but Owain has a magic stat equal to his strength stat so you can put stuff on him to get him to target Res instead of Defense. That is what FE is about.

Now that just sounds like excuses.
FE is a stat based game, that's why characters with entirely different universes fight exactly the same, even with said different stats?
That makes no sense, and it's a poor way to generalize a large portion of the FE cast.

 

[Deleted member]

Woolly World in Smash 4 wasn't available for 8 player Smash for that very reason. Is it confirmed that ALL stages in Ultimate have to be available in 8-Player Smash? Cause if that's the case, several stages from Smash 4 to Ultimate don't make the cut...

According to the direct, all stages will now be usable in 8-Player Smash.

How that's supposed to work with that unplayable Bowser form on the Paper Mario stage is beyond me.

 

[Pakky]

People need to chill with the whole Echo fighter.

Like Meta Ridley,Dry Bowser? Come on people

Those are weird to me really because they can just be costumes.

 

[Idon]

People need to chill with the whole Echo fighter.

Like Meta Ridley,Dry Bowser? Come on people

Pft yeah, that's as stupid as making Dr. Mario more unqiue than all of the echoes despite just being Mario in a lab coat.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I was hoping for a retail release. I was so disappointed when I found out only Japan got it.

It's a shame, since I heard that the gameplay is much more refined than the last one.

But I didnt have time. Just wanted to buy physical games for my 3DS and switch. >.>

 

[joshoctober16]

Woolly World in Smash 4 wasn't available for 8 player Smash for that very reason. Is it confirmed that ALL stages in Ultimate have to be available in 8-Player Smash? Cause if that's the case, several stages from Smash 4 to Ultimate don't make the cut...

also good point... along with mute city from melee.

and note poke floats are not in for a ... reason... just think the battlefield and omega form.... fighting on a pile of pokemon flesh all shaped into a stage like that...

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

stuff like that should be alts , but thats just my opinion

Echo fighters was both an official branding of the term “clone” and official recognization that clone characters do exist in order to legitimize padding the roster due to a lack of development time to create actual unique non-clone characters. And people ate it up.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Dry Bowser should just be a costume.

The fact it's not kind of makes me want DLC costumes for characters

 

[ImajinForSmash]

Listen guys, Imajin is clearly going to be in Smash. He’s practically confirmed.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

Dry Bowser should just be a costume.

The fact it's not kind of makes me want DLC costumes for characters

The dream for me would be Free characters DLC and paid cosmetics.

 

[ImajinForSmash]

Do you know what would be a good costume for Mario? Imajin.

 

[BrytonJ]

Dude, Jingle Hijinxs was great!

And Orbital Gate Assault at least deserves props for being gorgeous.

Jungle Hijinx is great but I think the whole background and foreground thing probably made it impossible to work with for stage morphing. Not sure about OGA tho which I also think is dope.

 

[Opossum]

Forget Bandana Dee, give me Caeda with the Wing Spear.

Saving things as a future selling point is a stupid idea that assumes you'd succeed anyway regardless of your finished product. Also, I'm quite sure that's just not the developer saying during the interview "support this game and maybe we'll include your favorites in the next! nudge nudge, wink wink!"

And besides that, I could hardly call Awakening and Fates "bonuses" when they consist of more than 2/3s of the game's cast, including DLC.



Now that just sounds like excuses.
FE is a stat based game, that's why characters with entirely different universes fight exactly the same, even with said different stats?
That makes no sense, and it's a poor way to generalize a large portion of the FE cast.

Awakening honestly hit the sweet spot. The focus was on three games, and together those three games got eighteen characters at base. Awakening getting six was perfect. Shadow Dragon getting only three while Fates got nine was the issue. Awakening was perfectly represented, Shadow Dragon was grievously under-represented, and Fates was totally over-represented. It should have been six each.

 

[Schnee117]

Have you seen the Warriors Orochi Games? There's literally hundreds of characters in each one of those games. The excuse that it would've been difficult for them to reach out to other games because there is so many is a poor excuse. Warriors Orochi pulls from Samurai Warriors, Dynasty Warriors, Legends of Troy, Blade Storm, Ninja Gaiden, Dead or Alive, and a couple more that I can't even think of right now. Pulling from more than just 3 being too much to ask is just incorrect considering Omega's tendency for fanservice. There was really no excuse to leave all those characters out except for them trying to get the game out as fast as possible, which honestly just made the game feel cheap to me. Fire Emblem Warriors is "Missed Opportunities and Disappointment The Game"

Anywho, the reason I actually want Black Knight and, more so, Hector in Smash is because of how much they neglected the old fans in Warriors. Now we got to depend on a completely different franchise to get our fanservice from.

Warriors Orochi is a crossover between their own franchises, the bulk of which are in the same genre and others in genres not far off from a Musou, they can reuse a lot of assets to help develop the game.
For a series that doesn't have that luxury? Always expect a small roster. Zelda started with like 13 or so. Berserk didn't crack double digits. Gundam had 19 in the first game before getting a huge increase for the second one.

 

[Idon]

Echo fighters was both an official branding of the term “clone” and official recognization that clone characters do exist in order to legitimize padding the roster due to a lack of development time to create actual unique non-clone characters. And people ate it up.

Which is especially weird when you look at Dark Samus who's had every facet of her effects and animations changed except the most important part, the moves themselves. Surely she of all echoes could've had the least bit time to be made into a small semiclone ala the Melee ones or Dr. Mario at least.

 

[joshoctober16]

Dry Bowser should just be a costume.

The fact it's not kind of makes me want DLC costumes for characters

if project m can do it they can too

i also think evrey one forgot about the koopalings and alph , so they panic by saying ECHO FIGHTER , people should be noted about alt characters like the koops and alph

 

[Zinith]

Here's a list of stages in Smash 4 Wii U that weren't available in 8-player Smash (non Omega form) but still got into Ultimate:

Boxing Ring
Coliseum
Delfino Plaza
Gamer
Garden of Hope
Halberd
Kalos Pokemon League
Mushroom Kingdom U
Pilotwings
Pirate Ship
Port Town Aero Drive
Skyloft
Wily Castle
Wrecking Crew
Wuhu Island

Like I said, makes no sense why Woolly World is out...