Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dragoncharystary]

But Say, Dillon? Spring Man? Isaac? Or even Nester? Please, step right up!

Glad someone actually mentioned Dillon. I think he's a better choice for the next Smash game than Inkling. Yeah, I just said that, come at me.

Edit: On something completely unrelated, was that Project Giant Robot from the Labo commercial? Is that what finally became of that game?

 

[Arcadenik]

So... ummm... Project Giant Robot from that Nintendo Labo game for Smash 5?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Not as good as Ray, but better than R.O.B.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don’t know if I’m getting Nintendo Labo. I don’t have kids and I’m more of a teen at heart than a kid at heart. But I do hope it does well enough to get a playable character in Smash. That so-called Project Giant Robot from the Robot Kit version looks interesting as a potential newcomer. The other cardboard kits from the Variety Kit version could be new items and part of the Labo Robot’s moveset.

 

[Deleted member]

This seems wrong to me. Something from five years ago could be so great that its influence has already been seen or can rationally be expected.

Can you name anything from five years ago that Nintendo has done that is historically significant?

That's the point I'm getting across. There isn't really any Nintendo character past the thinly defined "retro era" that carries significant historical value.

I agree, but that isn't a counterpoint to what he or I said.

You stated that he was talking about characters that are hard to define as "retro". I'm pointing out the you don't have to be "retro" to be historically significant. It just so happens that the three characters I listed are.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Can you name anything from five years ago that Nintendo has done that is historically significant?

The Wii U's first trailer.

It is a historical failure

 

[Ura]

Willing to bet the new IP revealed today will have a stage in the next Smash Bros.

Has anyone unironically brought up "Labo Robot" for Smash yet? No?
Damn, I thought this fanbase would be faster than that....


What are Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt, then?

Retro's of course. Right? I mean Sakurai always adds a really popular retro character in every Smash title. I don't include them in that category.

What I meant is that I hope Sakurai will be more liberal in his policy of "only relevant characters can be in the game" and let some characters from both pre-existing and non pre-existing Nintendo franchises in the game.

Face it Ura, Advance Wars is dead!

Face it NSG, Takamaru is dead...

It's a good idea but it's HIGHLY unlikely I feel. Hell we couldn't even get Isaac and he and Little Mac came back the same year.

Yes, hence why I said wishful thinking lol. Not just for Andy but other characters that get screwed with the relevancy rule.

And Dark Dawn was 2010. Punch Out Wii was 2009. Mac got in because he's an icon from the NES days and from what I hear lots of people at Nintendo of America are big fans of him.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Willing to bet the new IP revealed today will have a stage in the next Smash Bros.

It'll be the new Stage Builder

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Can you name anything from five years ago that Nintendo has done that is historically significant?

That's the point I'm getting across. There isn't really any Nintendo character past the thinly defined "retro era" that carries significant historical value.

You stated that he was talking about characters that are hard to define as "retro". I'm pointing out the you don't have to be "retro" to be historically significant. It just so happens that the three characters I listed are.

Unless you're trying to make the point that "Nintendo characters" specifically haven't been historically significant more recently than the retro era, you seem to be contradicting yourself. Regardless, if you think non-retro characters can be historically significant, then the issue at hand is a matter of opinion on what is historically significant. For example, I'd say Xenoblade Chronicles is historically significant due to Operation Rainfall. If he hadn't been in Sm4sh, I could see someone arguing this way for his inclusion in 5mash. Similarly, I believe Ura would argue that Andy is historically significant.

 

[Ura]

It'll be the new Stage Builder

As if anyone uses the Stage Builder lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Willing to bet the new IP revealed today will have a stage in the next Smash Bros.

Retro's of course. Right? I mean Sakurai always adds a really popular retro character in every Smash title. I don't include them in that category.

What I meant is that I hope Sakurai will be more liberal in his policy of "only relevant characters can be in the game" and let some characters from both pre-existing and non pre-existing Nintendo franchises in the game.

Wrong. The three are more than just "really popular retros" (and honestly, that barely describes them at all; Mr. Game & Watch had popularity when he technically didn't even exist before Smash?)

They were added to be surprise characters. Why them specifically? I can't speak for the first two with absolute certainty, but representing Nintendo's first gaming success before the original Donkey Kong and representing the well-known peripheral that's historically known for its role in keeping the video game industry alive after the Video Game Crash of 1983 likely played key roles.
With Duck Hunt specifically, Sakurai pointed to the sales of the original Duck Hunt game, claiming it as "most-sold shooting game in world".

As in, these characters were in fact, "historically significant" like your original post was asking for and why they were included.

 

[Ura]

Similarly, I believe Ura would argue that Andy is historically significant.

Yes I would

That being of course that AW (or Wars in general) is one of Nintendo's longest running series (barring it's hiatus this past decade) with a presence on every console sans the N64 prior to it's hiatus.

Wrong. The three are more than just "really popular retros" (and honestly, that barely describes them at all; Mr. Game & Watch had popularity when he technically didn't even exist before Smash?)

They were added to be surprise characters. Why them specifically? I can't speak for the first two with absolute certainty, but representing Nintendo's first gaming success before the original Donkey Kong and representing the well-known peripheral that's historically known for its role in keeping the video game industry alive after the Video Game Crash of 1983 likely played key roles.
With Duck Hunt specifically, Sakurai pointed to the sales of the original Duck Hunt game, claiming it as "most-sold shooting game in world".

As in, these characters were in fact, "historically significant" like your original post was asking for and why they were included.

Yeah, 3 retro characters with widespread appeal that are also historically significant. That's what I meant.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah, 3 retro characters with widespread appeal that are also historically significant.

Only one with widespread appeal was .

didn't even exist.

was mostly just a trivia question.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Honestly, I would put Pit, Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., and Game & Watch in the "Retro" catagory. It's a very broad catagory and can lead to some serious confusion as to which is which.

Personally I would put IC's, Pit, and Duck Hunt in the Retro catagory and WFT, R.O.B., and Game & Watch in the "WTF" catagory but that's just me.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Thing about Pit is that he wasn't chosen to be an NES rep or surprise character like the others.

Pit was actually cited to be chosen due to the success of the GBA port of Kid Icarus.

 

[Deleted member]

Thing about Pit is that he wasn't chosen to be an NES rep or surprise character like the others.

Pit was actually cited to be chosen due to the success of the GBA port of Kid Icarus.

Wait, hold the phone. That was actually stated?

....so what was that about ports not influencing things, Issy?

 

[NintenRob]

Not as good as Ray, but better than R.O.B.

LIES

no bot is better than our R.O.B. bot



Also I can't see this new IP having much influence over Smash. Maybe a stage.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Thing about Pit is that he wasn't chosen to be an NES rep or surprise character like the others.

Pit was actually cited to be chosen due to the success of the GBA port of Kid Icarus.

Oh ****, that was stated? Crazy.

LIES

no bot is better than our R.O.B. bot



Also I can't see this new IP having much influence over Smash. Maybe a stage.

I don't think it'll get anything. Like, maybe a trophy, maybe. Doesn't seem like the type of thing to be represented in Smash. Then again there was that one stage in Brawl:

 

[Bowserlick]

Labo type is strong against cat type, yet weak to water type.

 

[Spatman]

Can you name anything from five years ago that Nintendo has done that is historically significant?

who is historically significant only the history can tell us. 5 years is too little time to consider it history.
So we should conclude that in the last 5 years there aren't historically significant character, or rather, characters that can be considered historically significant right now.
But of course Inklings will be remembered as historically significant with so much certainty that right now we can mention them

 

[Deleted member]

Unless you're trying to make the point that "Nintendo characters" specifically haven't been historically significant more recently than the retro era, you seem to be contradicting yourself. Regardless, if you think non-retro characters can be historically significant, then the issue at hand is a matter of opinion on what is historically significant. For example, I'd say Xenoblade Chronicles is historically significant due to Operation Rainfall. If he hadn't been in Sm4sh, I could see someone arguing this way for his inclusion in 5mash. Similarly, I believe Ura would argue that Andy is historically significant.

Yeah, no.
I wouldn't call Xenoblade Chronicles historically significant. At all.
Let alone using Operation Rainfall as a reason why. Or am I to believe that Pandora's Tower and The Last Story are also "historically significant" and not just niche titles that faded into obscurity while Xenoblade didn't only because of Smash and future installments in the franchise?

 

[N3ON]

Thing about Pit is that he wasn't chosen to be an NES rep or surprise character like the others.

Pit was actually cited to be chosen due to the success of the GBA port of Kid Icarus.

I've heard that before, I wouldn't be surprised if it truly was said, but I find that to be nonsense.

There are GBA games with much more impact and success than KI. Pit either had to be on a prior list of considered characters with the port maybe clinching it... or the pool of games out of which KI was only as wide as all the other retro re-releases, because Sakurai was seeking a retro character. Or it's a false statement.

Checking.

There you go, it's the second. I personally would be unsurprised if the first also played a role. Though if anyone has a better source please share, because this guy didn't cite his sources very well. I stand by ports being of little consequence, however as it is with retros, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Further checking.

Hey look, it's also the first as well. Ostensibly, Sakurai was gauging the most popular retro at the time via sales numbers.

Wait.

Ok. And now, to complicate things and throw the whole claim into question, KI was the second worst selling NES GBA port. Fwiw, this is also the only actually sourced claim, though the link has expired.

So idk man...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I've heard that before, I wouldn't be surprised if it truly was said, but I find that to be nonsense.

There are GBA games with much more impact and success than KI. Pit either had to be on a prior list of considered characters with the port maybe clinching it... or the pool of games out of which KI was only as wide as all the other retro re-releases, because Sakurai was seeking a retro character. Or it's a false statement.

Checking.

There you go, it's the second. I personally would be unsurprised if the first also played a role. Though if anyone has a better source please share, because this guy didn't cite his sources very well. I stand by ports being of little consequence, however as it is with retros, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Further checking.

Hey look, it's also the first as well. Ostensibly, Sakurai was gauging the most popular retro at the time via sales numbers.

Wait.

Ok. And now, to complicate things and throw the whole claim into question, KI was the second worst selling NES GBA port. Fwiw, this is also the only actually sourced claim, though the link has expired.

So idk man...

This is...

What even is the truth any more.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

You guys want historically significant characters? Look no further than the Labo robot! I'm pretty sure BEING THE ABSOLUTE END OF NINTENDO AS A WHOLE is a pretty historical achievement!

I for one, am absolutely livid that Smash, Pokémon Switch, Pikmin 4, Metroid Prime 4, Animal Crossing, and BotW 2 weren't shown off today, each with a Holiday 2018 release date.

I'm joking everybuddy. Labo looks alright but not for me because I like the portable aspect of the switch a lot.


But seriously, I think it's hard to look at anything "historically," within the last 5 years. It's not history yet. At some point it will be, just like how Miis are starting to be seen in that light, but it's too recent.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, no.
I wouldn't call Xenoblade Chronicles historically significant. At all.
Let alone using Operation Rainfall as a reason why. Or am I to believe that Pandora's Tower and The Last Story are also "historically significant" and not just niche titles that faded into obscurity while Xenoblade didn't only because of Smash and future installments in the franchise?

Well, Xenoblade also sold a lot better than those two if I recall. Especially in Europe.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well Shulk in Smash does cement the idea of "we bought Monolith Soft!"

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, Xenoblade also sold a lot better than those two if I recall. Especially in Europe.

I mean, if Xenoblade selling well is enough then lots of games are.

 

[Spatman]

every person I know who have played Xenoblade says that Xenoblade is, more or less, a masterpiece.
It's not a game like many other

 

[Swamp Sensei]

every person I know who have played Xenoblade says that Xenoblade is, more or less, a masterpiece.
It's not a game like many other

Trust me.

I love the Xenoblade franchise.

But even if it is a masterpiece.

There are enough of those that i'll need something bigger to stand out in a historical sense.

 

[NintenRob]

Isn't Xenoblade the first Monolith game developed under Nintendo?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

So.... how 'bout that Labo thing that happened... what can that bring to Smash?

 

[Applebutter61]

That was never confirmed though was it? Just a suspicion?

Either way the Switch is more powerful, even if marginally, it could probably handle 16 IC's.

Forgive me...

What are IC's?

 

[Zerp]

Forgive me...

What are IC's?

Ice Climbers.

 

[Arcadenik]

So.... how 'bout that Labo thing that happened... what can that bring to Smash?

That robot from the Labo Robot Kit might work as a playable character.

Those cardboard toys from the Labo Variety Kit could work as items.

 

[Staarih]

Kinda fun to see the Giant Robot Project or whatever see daylight through this. I’ll still wait to see if Nintendo Labo becomes a Wii Fit-type of success before making predictions for Smash haha!

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Yeah, no.
I wouldn't call Xenoblade Chronicles historically significant. At all.
Let alone using Operation Rainfall as a reason why. Or am I to believe that Pandora's Tower and The Last Story are also "historically significant" and not just niche titles that faded into obscurity while Xenoblade didn't only because of Smash and future installments in the franchise?

It was an example. I don't care much whether or not you agree. What I care about is whether or not you understand the point I was making.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

That robot from the Labo Robot Kit might work as a playable character.

Those cardboard toys from the Labo Variety Kit could work as items.

I wouldn't say it could work as a playable character, but an item I can see work. But then again I want the Ultra Hand to be an item too and we've never gotten that.

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't Xenoblade the first Monolith game developed under Nintendo?

Nope, that was Disaster: Day of Crisis, which hasn't been released in America.

 

[Deleted member]

Trust me.

I love the Xenoblade franchise.

But even if it is a masterpiece.

There are enough of those that i'll need something bigger to stand out in a historical sense.

This. Maybe you can add Rex or Pyra or Mythra, but that is really the only three I would add. You are right about needing something bigger to stand out in a historical sense.

Can't wait until I get to play as Cardboard Optimus Prime in Smash.

Exactly, I can not wait either.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wouldn't say it could work as a playable character, but an item I can see work. But then again I want the Ultra Hand to be an item too and we've never gotten that.

I would love the Ultra Hand to be an item in Smash. I always liked that idea since pre-Brawl days. Never say never. We still could get it in Smash eventually. I got Duck Hunt Dog in Smash after 12 years of supporting him and 12 years of naysayers discouraging me (the more they detracted him, the more vocal I became).

The more I watch that Nintendo Labo video, the more I am intrigued with that Project Giant Robot. N3ON described it as Cardboard Optimus Prime and just like that *snaps fingers* I love the idea of playing as the Labo Robot in Smash. This could be the closest thing we have to having a Transformer in Smash. There were playable Transformers in that Smash-like Gamecube game DreamMix TV World Fighters.

I wonder if this is how Sakurai felt when he saw concept art of Greninja... and he loved the idea of playing as a water ninja frog in Smash.