Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zeox]

While we were worrying for his health, he was hinting King K.Rool and Bloody Tears song, apparently.

I SAID IT! I SAID IT! HE WAS TAUNTING US AGAIN!
Dammit Sakurai... why u so evil

 

[T-Hell]

Hmm.. the ballot.. this fanservice.. Guys Isaac from GS might be coming.

 

[osby]

Maybe if Geno gets in, his music falls under Mario instead of Final Fantasy? Also, they did manage to license a MII COSTUME of Geno before and had him appear in of the Superstar Saga games.

Ubisoft has been buddy buddy with Nintendo to the point of multiple franchise crossovers, and Rayman being in Smash as a trophy has come up before. Disregarding Japanese relevance issues(?), maybe they'll throw Rayman a bone this time around.

Spoiler

Even if Crash is a more relevant icon right nowCOUGH*COUGH

Something to note: We have now three fighters created outside of Japan: Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K.Rool, all of them from Rare.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, now that the big two reptiles are in, who is the next most requested character (that currently isn't an AT)?

How would y'all feel about this roster? I included also three seasons of DLC characters, a la SFV and Tekken 7:

View attachment 156343
- Impa (Sheik Echo)
- Other newcomers after today (all unique): Bandana Dee, Elma, Isabelle, Chorus Kids, Buzzwole
- DLC season 1 ("Switch Stars"): Twintelle, Rex & Pyra, Octoling (Inkling Echo), Addam & Mythra (Rex & Pyra Echo, represented by Mythra cause I didn't have an icon for both of them)
- DLC Season 2 ("Third Party Blowout"): Neku (Square Enix rep 2), Shadow (Sonic echo, Sega rep 3), Lloyd Irving (Bandai Namco rep 2), Dante (Capcom rep 3)
- DLC Season 3 ("Girl Power"): Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong semi-echo), Shantae (indie rep), Fiora (notes on her later), Lip (can interchange with any other female rep of your choice, like Ayumi Tachibana or Linkle)

Notes on Fiora: yes, I'm aware she's in Shulk's final smash. BUT! Something about the MonHun AT during the direct struck a chord. "The first character in history" to be both a stage hazard and assist trophy. Why not Fiora be both in Shulk's final smash and playable? After all, regular Samus is in Zero Suit's new FS. That, or Fiora can just be patched out of Shulk's FS, assuming she's not also in his victory screen.

Also, sorry that icon's so blurry. Can't find a clearer icon of her PXZ2 render

Honorable mentions: Crash Bandicoot, Geno, Joker/Ren Amamiya, Phoenix Wright, Rayman. I considered them but I couldn't really imagine them translating to Smash so easily

I'd be fine with it, since my gal Shantae's in those choices. Although I would question how Buzzwole of all things could be balanced.

Something to note: We have now three fighters created outside of Japan: Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K.Rool, all of them from Rare.

Actually, to correct you, two of those are from Rare, DS is by Retro Studios (but still Western nonetheless).

 

[Taco Cruise]

Once the hype from the direct dies down (in like a few days probably) I hope someone does a close look at any leaks that could potentially be alive besides Vergeben's, this probably eliminated 99% of them.

Only the Toby leaker and the Dante leaker seem to be hanging on right now, with the Toby leaker saying he didn't know Richter but was confident in everyone else, and the Dante leaker coming very close moveset wise where I'd argue they probably just got some details from someone and they got the finals smash wrong (who knows.. definitely less likely of the two I've found that are still living leaks)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I have a feeling considering Verge hasn't gotten a SINGLE echo. He doesn't know about Echos in his info. He knows about unique newcomers.

So if Isabelle is in? She's unique. Not an echo.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Interesting that skull kid doesn't appear in the moon assist trophy

anyways

Shadow is 100% confirmed and i got Richter Belmont

B A S E D S A K U R A I

 

[BlueMagician]

The way they talked about stages made me believe they've revealed all of them, which leads me to believe their won't be anymore characters from new franchises, because they wouldn't have a home stage, and I doubt they would do that.

Kind of sucks, because I was really hoping for a Rhythm Heaven character and stage.

Following that logic, though, means that ROB won't get a stage, which means a character can be from a franchise without a stage, so no fighter is really out on that account.

 

[Wyoming]

The way they talked about stages made me believe they've revealed all of them, which leads me to believe their won't be anymore characters from new franchises, because they wouldn't have a home stage, and I doubt they would do that.

Kind of sucks, because I was really hoping for a Rhythm Heaven character and stage.

Not exactly. Some characters are homeless: Dr. Mario and ROB spring to mind. K. Rool didn't even come with his Gangplank Galleon either, which was a surprise for me.

You could probably feasibly add some Capcom series' tracks onto the Monster Hunter stage. Why, look at this bad boy right here:

Let me dream, ok? He's all I have left alongside ranked online with matchmaking.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash Ultimate's Final Destination looks by far the best.

Thirty-six Street Fighter tracks though. You know what that means.

Guile theme.

And the best part is you can pick that song on any stage.

If Guile's Theme is in, I would cry in joy. That is an amazing theme.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Something to note: We have now three fighters created outside of Japan: Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K.Rool, all of them from Rare.

*Dark Samus from Retro, American studio?
So yeah, between this, getting a second third party franchise's character and a reptile king that hasn't been seen in a decade, supposed rules for fighter inclusions are getting dismissed left and right!

 

[WallyPalmer]

i think as well that he means new fighters periods instead of just new echoes. Even though some would be lovely.

Jeanne stands out in particular. Wouldn't it be lovely to have Bayo's girlfriend join her in the melee?

Chrobin and Jeayonetta... MLM/WLW Solidarity

 

[Jubileus57]

I really don't want to start any arguments or anything, but I'm curious what aspect of his design is offputting. I personally find him having floating limbs to be pretty cool and unique, it goes well with him being very light in his games. Plus that hoodie of his is pretty neat. I'm surprised you're hating on him rather than say, the Rabbids, which are literally just ugly cartoon rabbit-like creatures that are just loud, have the IQ of a banana, and are incredibly annoying (the main Rabbids from Kingdom Battle are an exception).

I couldn't precisely say... If I had to guess it would be his face but it is probably the totum that I personally find hideous and unlikeable. But as I always say, it is just my (unpatriotic, as I am French just like Rayman) opinions.

 

[ErenJager]

Alright, time to talk about characters that got higher chances and lower, first the obvious:

Shadow chances go up:
Castlevania got 2 reps, one of them an echo, it would be obvious that, Sonic, being the rival of Mario and a very classic franchise, would get a new character, and now that echoes are a popular thing, it would be obvious to get him, I would rather have Tails, but he is a little smaller and with the double tail, his hitbox and moveset would be different, and that's not a thing in echoes (as long as i know, i am a human, i can be wrong).

Black Shadow and Porky chances go a little up:
We have 2 Roys, we can have 2 characters with the name shadow on it... Alright now my reasons why i think they got a little better chance, first start with E3, When Sakurai mentioned and show the original 12 characters from 64, this doesn't says much but is a little acknowledge.
And then we got the second one, which was in K. Rool trailer, where we see heroes fighting against villains or rivals, which we only see characters from the original 64, heck, we even see Kirby fighting against Meta Knight, even if he is not really a villain.
But it is interesting that they again, acknowledge the heroes vs villans, and that the only left from 64 are F-Zero and Mother.
Black Shadow would have it easy, he can be an echo of Captain Falcon, the fact that they FINALLY changed Ganondorf to not be a clone should be a hint that this is more possible than ever.
Porky should have to be a new character which can be a problem, but he have a history with smash, he has been in small references since meele and big apparitions since Brawl, and if it comes with a mother 3 localization, better than anything.
And now you must say, why Porky and not Giygas? well, it could be but after this direct I think his chances go down, everyone says that he could be a mewtwo echo but it would be really weird, think about it, every single echo is from the same franchise as the original, and they even can share the same slot, so, having a slot for a pokemon rep and a mother rep would be a very, very weird thing.

Spoiler: Also this image would finally become a reality

Giygas could be an original character with mind control gimmick/ mechanics.
Or like Chrom and be an echo that borrows from multiple characters. Mewtwo, ness, lucas.

And the ppl who designed giygas designed mewtwo.

 

[LilTurel]

Bruh I'm still dizzy from this direct. So much info

 

[WallyPalmer]

So, now that the big two reptiles are in, who is the next most requested character (that currently isn't an AT)?

I could name a few:

1. Geno, big name for a long, long time. Sakurai is aware of his demand, and he seems somewhat likely
2. Waddle Dee, requests for Waddle Dees have apparently been happening since after 64, according to polls. But Bandana Waddle Dee seems like a likely choice.
3. Isaac Goldensun, blonde.

 

[Iridium]

This is nice. This is very niiiiiiiiiiiiice.

Reminder that literally nobody (including me) believed that this could happen (well, except for one guy I found on YouTube).

 

[Capybara Gaming]

73 Fighters So Far with 5 of them being Echo Fighters.

3 More Unique, with 2 more echo fighters, I'm guessing, for a total of 78.

- Incineroar
- Isaac
- Rayman/Bandana Dee/Geno

- Octoling
- ???

 

[Pakky]

I just thought of something

THE CAPTAIN N CREW IS ALL HERE!!!!
Also

 

[KingIceSonic]

Once the hype from the direct dies down (in like a few days probably) I hope someone does a close look at any leaks that could potentially be alive besides Vergeben's, this probably eliminated 99% of them.

Only the Toby leaker and the Dante leaker seem to be hanging on right now, with the Toby leaker saying he didn't know Richter but was confident in everyone else, and the Dante leaker coming very close moveset wise where I'd argue they probably just got some details from someone and they got the finals smash wrong (who knows.. definitely less likely of the two I've found that are still living leaks)

Link to these leakers?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Maybe if Geno gets in, his music falls under Mario instead of Final Fantasy? Also, they did manage to license a MII COSTUME of Geno before and had him appear in of the Superstar Saga games.

Ubisoft has been buddy buddy with Nintendo to the point of multiple franchise crossovers, and Rayman being in Smash as a trophy has come up before. Disregarding Japanese relevance issues(?), maybe they'll throw Rayman a bone this time around.

Spoiler

Even if Crash is a more relevant icon right nowCOUGH*COUGH

It's gonna be Mario for sure because the game focused heavily around Mario's journey to get the 7 stars.

People in this thread who told me K. Rool would never happen, you know who you are.

Eat it up.

I hope their tears are delicious for you to enjoy

 

[Iridium]

Is it confirmed that we're only getting the two?

So far, in the video, when the Sound Test is shown, only two songs are listed for FF. I will check the video and find it.

 

[Zeox]

Giygas could be an original character with mind control gimmick/ mechanics.
Or like Chrom and be an echo that borrows from multiple characters. Mewtwo, ness, lucas.

And the ppl who designed giygas designed mewtwo.

Yeah, Giygas as an original character would work... but wasn't Chrom an echo of Roy? how can a character be an echo of 3 characters if they can share the same slot?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

reminder that since chrom is using moves from other fighters that means shadow can take mewtwo teleport for chaos control

Its happening boys

"b-but 3rd party characters wont have e-echoes!!!!"

 

[WallyPalmer]

One of my favorite moments of the direct was when the Lady was getting ready to go on a nice stroll, she plugs her earbuds into her switch and tucks it away nicely into her purse. And the ****ing LUIGI'S MANSION theme starts playing. That was such a random and odd choice for lovely walking music. I actually laughed out loud.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I have a feeling considering Verge hasn't gotten a SINGLE echo. He doesn't know about Echos in his info. He knows about unique newcomers.

So if Isabelle is in? She's unique. Not an echo.

I think that's likely to be true, leaks this far from release tend to be from early development, and clones have historically always been developed last. Since she's one of the first characters he heard of it's even likely that she might have been high up the priority list.

Even ignoring that Isabelle is generally just more likely to be unique imo.

 

[Deleted member]

Thirty-six Street Fighter tracks though. You know what that means.

Guile theme.

And the best part is you can pick that song on any stage.

Is there seriously 36 SF tracks, was that confirmed?

Also, I thought the selection was per franchise. So the stage had to be of the corresponding franchise. Not any song on any stage.

 

[KingIceSonic]

Loz18(A notable person with inside info) had this to say

At least two newcomers, one of them is strongly implied to be Skull Kid. More echo fighters coming too.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76883130#qp

Thoughts on potential leak? It is vague but he DOES have inside info so this might be worth taking into consideration.

 

[Pakky]

Is that purple dot Skull kid?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

btw the fact we'll know the full roster before the game comes out is so strange to me. I'm not complaining though as the surprises lose all impact after like, a week

 

[Pyra]

I could name a few:

1. Geno, big name for a long, long time. Sakurai is aware of his demand, and he seems somewhat likely
2. Waddle Dee, requests for Waddle Dees have apparently been happening since after 64, according to polls. But Bandana Waddle Dee seems like a likely choice.
3. Isaac Goldensun, blonde.

I genuinely think Geno will be the "but wait there's more" reveal in the definitely-going-to-happen October direct, where he'll be seen allied with Peach and Bowser.

 

[Blargg888]

You know if we follow what Sakurai said we wouldn't have that many newcomers since "We shouldn't expect a lot"
Yet look where we are. 5 Characters in one single direct.
Anything is possible, don't believe his words.

It's true that we just got 5 more characters, but remember, not only are 4 of them Echoes, but that still only totals 8 new characters.
As it stands, that's still less than any other Smash game, and 4 less that the lowest amount we've ever gotten.

Honestly, I am inclined to believe his words. I haven't really been given any major reason to doubt him.

 

[jwillenn]

Argh, I've got somewhere to be but so pumped over the information dump that I can't get myself away from this chair to get prepared to leave.
Great direct and game continues to look and sound amazing! I'll try to dream about a time machine tonight...

 

[Deleted member]

Something to note: We have now three fighters created outside of Japan: Diddy Kong, Dark Samus and King K.Rool, all of them from Rare.

Dark Samus is Retro, not Rare.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

do echoes really count as full on newcomers

i woudnt be surpsrised if we end up with like 8 newcomers and 8 echoes making 16 total but still technically only 8 "new" characters

 

[SquashiniKun]

The way they talked about stages made me believe they've revealed all of them, which leads me to believe their won't be anymore characters from new franchises, because they wouldn't have a home stage, and I doubt they would do that.

Kind of sucks, because I was really hoping for a Rhythm Heaven character and stage.

There is still a large gap in the stage select screen, so i think they haven't revealed ALL of the stages.

 

[WallyPalmer]

Alright, time to talk about characters that got higher chances and lower

I think Waddle Dee's chances have increased some. With the reveal of Kawasaki as Kirby's new Assist Trophy, I feel like Waddle Dee is less likely to take that spot as well!

Loz18(A notable person with inside info) had this to say

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76883130#qp

Thoughts on potential leak?

I think if this is in addition to Isabelle and Incineroar, then yeah I could see it happening.

 

[osby]

It's true that we just got 5 more characters, but remember, not only are 4 of them Echoes, but that still only totals 8 new characters.
As it stands, that's still less than any other Smash game, and 4 less that the lowest amount we've ever gotten.

Honestly, I am inclined to believe his words. I haven't really been given any major reason to doubt him.

I think with this new 'echoes can be made to share slots' thing, it's hard to say how many we'll get. I'm not expecting 15+ newcomers but my expectations definitely gone up.

 

[Blargg888]

Not exactly. Some characters are homeless: Dr. Mario and ROB spring to mind. K. Rool didn't even come with his Gangplank Galleon either, which was a surprise for me.

You could probably feasibly add some Capcom series' tracks onto the Monster Hunter stage. Why, look at this bad boy right here:

Let me dream, ok? He's all I have left alongside ranked online with matchmaking.

Smash Ultimate is already perfect for me.

However, if Phoenix Wright were to be added, the game would transcend BEYOND perfect to something even greater.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

same. No one's gonna believe us tho lol

Alas I have proof!!! i have argued for Chrom being a roy echo on these very forums in the past!