Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[BluePikmin11]

I'm sitting on around 30+ supposed leaks, so it's way past time for another session.

I'd also like your thoughts on opening up my personal document to some others in this thread. The fact of the matter is that I'm not going to have nearly enough time for leak hunting and cataloguing as I begin college within a week. The reason I've been so slow with bringing sessions and updating the count is because I simply decided to spend my free time doing other things. The only two options I can think of are removing the count aspect and simply cataloguing any supposed leaks I come across in my free time, or bring other people on board to help share the load. I could also cancel the project, but that'd just be lame. Even if I have to hand the whole thing over to someone else I'll ensure this keeps going. I'm open to any ideas you all may have as well.

I like the leaks with Professor Layton and Leon Kennedy. Tomorrow is gonna be a big day for leaks I guess.

 

[MagnesD3]

It will hilarious if its literally Simon and Isabelle are revealed making verge legit but making the suffering from waiting greater since we will now nothing truly new character wise for longer..

 

[Jetsurge]

I don't expect Simon at all. I always thought Verg is talking out his *** and that Simon never became mainstream speculation of "definitely possible" until he spat out his name, at least in my eyes.

The reason I think he could be in is because Sakurai might've chosen Simon over Bomberman. Also Ryu and Cloud both represent classic franchises on the SNES and Simon is in a similar vein. He wasn't very popular during the ballot though so who knows.

 

[Houndstooth]

cant wait until tomorrow's blog post and everyone assumes whatever series gets music is going to have a character revealed

Come on, Forest Maze Remix! Let me and the other Geno fans go even crazier for a day...

 

[Shroob]

It will hilarious if its literally Simon and Isabelle are revealed making verge legit but making the suffering from waiting greater since we will now nothing truly new character wise for longer..

Honestly, I'd still be fine with that.


Even though I want 'new' things, even if the characters were leaked ahead of time, they're still technically new and would have plenty of stuff to show off about(Though I'm assuming Isabelle is an echo)

 

[AzureFlame4]

The most mind blowing/happy news for me will be announcing Banjo Kazooie with the direct.

 

[Opossum]

Spoiler: Muddy Mole

Well, I like him.

My absolute favorite retro character choice.

 

[Will]

The reason I think he could be in is because Sakurai might've chosen Simon over Bomberman. Also Ryu and Cloud both represent classic franchises on the SNES and Simon is in a similar vein. He wasn't very popular during the ballot though so who knows.

1. Street Fighter was on every console it could have been. It's an arcade series originally (I don't think SFV has cabinets made for it though).
2. Castlevania started as a NES franchise
3. Final Fantasy started as a NES franchise
4. Cloud represents FFVII and no other Final Fantasy, not the series itself. FFVII is a Playstation game. He's not about the six games that appeared on Nintendo consoles, he's all about FFVII on the PS. No other console, no other game, just the one. His global appeal got him in, not what the first six of Final Fantasy did on Nintendo.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

No she lives.
Also Scar doesn't kill Mufasa, and Vader isn't Luke's father.

Next you’ll tell me people can see John Cena

 

[Shroob]

No she lives.
Also Scar doesn't kill Mufasa, and Vader isn't Luke's father.

I mean.......technically he didn't, it was the stampede.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

1. Street Fighter was on every console it could have been. It's an arcade series originally (I don't think SFV has cabinets made for it though).
2. Castlevania started as a NES franchise
3. Final Fantasy started as a NES franchise
4. Cloud represents FFVII and no other Final Fantasy, not the series itself. FFVII is a Playstation game. He's not about the six games that appeared on Nintendo consoles, he's all about FFVII on the PS. No other console, no other game, just the one. His global appeal got him in, not what the first six of Final Fantasy did on Nintendo.

>Seeing someone use the same reaction video I do

Sakurai doesn't give a damn about the "console wars," but Cloud was chosen because he was the most popular Final Fantasy character, so you could say he's the representation of all of Final Fantasy given his and the series' popularity.

I'd say it depends on if we get more Final Fantasy content in this game, or just more Final Fantasy 7 content.

 

[Radical Bones]

I'm trying to keep my expectations low for the Direct. The last two presentations were so good - Inlking reveal/ game announcement and E3. Three from three might be too much to ask for.

 

[RandomAce]

I just need Smash Run back.

But this time:

- Have 4 players attack/meet each other.
- Have applicable teams available with all of it’s planned mechanics.
- Allow up to 8 players (the stage fits so well for 8 people with a mode like this).
- Allow online multiplayer functionality.

It’s honestly one of my favorite modes in Smash, I played it once, and I got hooked onto it ever since.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

1. Street Fighter was on every console it could have been. It's an arcade series originally (I don't think SFV has cabinets made for it though).
2. Castlevania started as a NES franchise
3. Final Fantasy started as a NES franchise
4. Cloud represents FFVII and no other Final Fantasy, not the series itself. FFVII is a Playstation game. He's not about the six games that appeared on Nintendo consoles, he's all about FFVII on the PS. No other console, no other game, just the one. His global appeal got him in, not what the first six of Final Fantasy did on Nintendo.

Cloud also is a bit about Advent Children, and Sakurai did note a bit about Dissidia earlier when figuring out Cloud's design, but yeah, he's honestly not there to show off the regular FF series. If they wanted to do that, they'd have picked someone who is about using magic/weapons/etc. Cloud's mechanic comes straight FFVII as well. Meanwhile, if you want a more general FF rep, you'd have Red Mage or Terra as really good options to show off the entirety of the series.

Even the stage has more in common with the rest of the series than Cloud himself(Midgar's summons are FFVII specific, but summons existed before it. Limit is a very new mechanic that's quite a bit different from the official Limit Breaks as well. But still based mainly on FFVII, just modified to work better. I also like the nerf Ultimate did to it, vastly making it more balanced, but still making it feel more accurate, as Limits don't last all that long generally.)

 

[Radical Bones]

I mean.......technically he didn't, it was the stampede.

This is off topic and I'm sorry but he orchestrated the assassination as he asked the hyenas to cause the stampede which they did and then chose to throw Mufasa off the side of the canyon rather than pulling him up.

BUT YEAH BACK ON SMASH WHO IS EXCITED TO SEE SOME GAMEPLAY OF CHARACTERS NOT IN THE E3 BUILD?

 

[Zinith]

This is off topic and I'm sorry but he orchestrated the assassination as he asked the hyenas to cause the stampede which they did and then chose to throw Mufasa off the side of the canyon rather than pulling him up.

BUT YEAH BACK ON SMASH WHO IS EXCITED TO SEE SOME GAMEPLAY OF CHARACTERS NOT IN THE E3 BUILD?

Oh yeah, I'm down to see my boi!!!

 

[Will]

Sakurai doesn't give a damn about the "console wars," but Cloud was chosen because he was the most popular Final Fantasy character, so you could say he's the representation of all of Final Fantasy given his and the series' popularity.

mmmmmm nah
I'm like 96% sure it's just because he's the most popular one. There's a timeline where Lightning got in instead, I bet you it would've been FFXIII based and the rest wouldve had its existence ignored.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Vergeban's sources for Simon are different than his sources for Isabelle from what I've been hearing here I think. So they don't techically have to go together.

No, from what Vergeben claims it appears they are the same.

 

[RandomAce]

Cloud’s in Smash, because he’s CLOUD!!!

Like, having the Cloud fight against Snake on Lylat Cruise is why he’s in. He’s just a juggernaut icon.

 

[wildvine47]

Midgar's summons are FFVII specific

Mmmmmnope, not quite. Ifrit’s design on the Midgar stage is actually based on it’s FF8 design, not the FF7 one.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mmmmmnope, not quite. Ifrit’s design on the Midgar stage is actually based on it’s FF8 design, not the FF7 one.

I forget, doesn't Ifrit appear in FFVI first?

But yeah, forgot about that. You'd think I'd remember with VIII being my favorite one, heh.

On the other hand, goes back to what I meant that Midgar shows off more of other Final Fantasy stuff than Cloud does. Though not in the way I entirely meant(as summons didn't originate in VII).

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Smash Ultimate's project plan was devised in December 2015, Metroid Prime 4 was first announced at E3 2017, where it was so early in development we got nothing but a title picture and was still completely absent a year later at E3 2018, Ridley's inclusion had nothing to do with marketing Metroid Prime 4 (nevermind Sakurai outright said it was his big fan demand and the big outcry against his Smash 4 exclusion that got him in finally).

Retro Studios' last original game release was DKC: Tropical Freeze in February 2014. Realistically Metroid Prime 4 started sometime in 2014 as well since dev teams aren't paid to just sit around, and as happens from time to time with Nintendo projects, it probably has been in kinda dev hell for a long time since in dev it was probably turning out badly and Nintendo is really stubborn about not putting out those types of games. The fact that it was first shown with no real information in 2017 isn't terribly meaningful; it just means that that was the first point the project was successful enough Nintendo felt reasonably sure it would even launch. We saw nothing this year at E3 because it didn't fit Nintendo's E3 plans to show it there; they were pushing Smash Ultimate and didn't want to have their other reveals distract from that (it's bad marketing to compete with yourself for airspace). It's also the case that not every character who will be in the game is decided when a project plan is developed; plans do change as they go anyway. I can almost guarantee that whatever character list they had in 2015 is not exactly identical to what will launch this December. It's probably generally close but will have some deviation as things actually developed, and it very well may have even allocated resources to develop an as of the time undecided character who would be used to promote a game that hadn't come out as of the project plan being formed (which is why someone like Pyra or something crazy like a freeform labo character aren't unbelievable).

Also, things never happen for only one reason. Yes, Ridley was included because he was highly requested. Ridley was also included because he's a major component of the Metroid series and a very memorable game character in general. Ridley was also included because Metroid Prime 4 is on the horizon. Everything contributes, and given the incredibly high stakes of developing such a big title as Smash, every factor is considered and weighed. And the broader point I made wasn't "Ridley is in because of Metroid Prime 4" even. Ridley was revealed very early. There are other newcomers in Smash Ultimate too. Why choose to show off Ridley in particular so early instead of someone else? Well, again, there will be multiple reasons because nothing is ever done for only one reason, but two real big reasons might be that you want to make Metroid a focal point of your marketing or because you have several major pieces of Metroid content to reveal and want to spread them out. Of course it's all just speculation. Maybe they don't think Metroid is important at all and showed Ridley early only because the dev work on him went better than the dev work on the other newcomers so he was more ready for a demo or just because his unusually high fan demand made him fit the best with "everybody is here". Maybe Ridley didn't come with a new Metroid stage because there simply won't be one at all or because the new Metroid stage was still really buggy at the time. We can't really know anything until it is revealed, but the Metroid Prime 4 being a major focus in Smash Ultimate idea I think is plausible. We have no information that excludes its possibility at least.

EDIT: Fact check, apparently Retro isn't actually working on MP4 which raises serious questions about what they're even doing. Of course it's possible they started on the project, screwed it up, and the project got moved. We can't really know, but the underlying point was "we really don't know when MP4's development started" remains true.

 

[MysticKnives]

How would you all feel if this is what we got between now and release?

Newcomers
>Ashley
>King K Rool
>Simon Belmont
>New Pokemon
>Dark Samus(Echo Fighter)
>Chrom(Echo Fighter)
>Ken(Echo Fighter)
>Shadow(Echo Fighter)

Stages
> Every single stage returns plus new stages for the newcomers

Predictable. Wouldn't mind it, but I'd prefer to have a few more characters that aren't commonly discussed.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I just need Smash Run back.

But this time:

- Have 4 players attack/meet each other.
- Have applicable teams available with all of it’s planned mechanics.
- Allow up to 8 players (the stage fits so well for 8 people with a mode like this).
- Allow online multiplayer functionality.

It’s honestly one of my favorite modes in Smash, I played it once, and I got hooked onto it ever since.

Yes to all of this...just absolutely yes

 

[AzureFlame4]

I feel like one of the few people out there who actively dislike the idea of Chrom getting in smash. Considering we already have two characters from awakenig in it seems ridiculous to add a third. I also can't imagine Chrom as much more than an echo or semi clone of another Fire Emblem character. I love Fire Emblem as much as the next guy, but there are so many more interesting characters to add than Chrom.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I feel like one of the few people out there who actively dislike the idea of Chrom getting in smash. Considering we already have two characters from awakenig in it seems ridiculous to add a third. I also can't imagine Chrom as much more than an echo or semi clone of another Fire Emblem character. I love Fire Emblem as much as the next guy, but there are so many more interesting characters to add than Chrom.

Chrom would only get in as an echo, IMO. And that's why he'd get in. Because he would be easy to implement. And is also fairly popular

 

[blazefan519]

I feel like one of the few people out there who actively dislike the idea of Chrom getting in smash. Considering we already have two characters from awakenig in it seems ridiculous to add a third. I also can't imagine Chrom as much more than an echo or semi clone of another Fire Emblem character. I love Fire Emblem as much as the next guy, but there are so many more interesting characters to add than Chrom.

He'd be added as just an echo and it wouldn't really take development time. Pretty much a glorified alt of Ike and wouldn't amount to much, just pleasing the people who do want him and would rather play as him instead of Ike. No harm done.

 

[Will]

Chrom would only get in as an echo, IMO. And that's why he'd get in. Because he would be easy to implement. And is also fairly popular

You got 14 games (technically 12 two of them were just remakes). You bring half of them from one game

that upsets my brain

 

[AzureFlame4]

He'd be added as just an echo and it wouldn't really take development time. Pretty much a glorified alt of Ike and wouldn't amount to much, just pleasing the people who do want him and would rather play as him instead of Ike. No harm done.

No harm done except for the numerous echos that could exist from underrepresented series as well not pissing people off with even more with more Fire Emblem characters when Shadow, Ken, or whoever could have been a better echo choice. Three characters from the same game is the biggest problem with Chrom. Let alone two echoes from the same game.

 

[Impa4Smash]

You got 14 games (technically 12 two of them were just remakes). You bring half of them from one game

that upsets my brain

I mean, I’d love for more diverse FE reps. But Chrom as an echo is certainly possible for multiple reasons

 

[Shroob]

Chrom would be weird, even as an Echo.

Fire Emblem always either focuses on the current, or the advertising in Smash.

While Chrom is from Awakening, Awakening is how many years old at this point?


I get that he'd be an echo fighter, but surely Intelligent Systems has as much of a hand in deciding who gets in as the Pokemon Company does for their respective franchises.

 

[Nonno Umby]

No harm done except for the numerous echos that could exist from underrepresented series as well not pissing people off with even more with more Fire Emblem characters when Shadow, Ken, or whoever could have been a better echo choice. Three characters from the same game is the biggest problem with Chrom. Let alone two echoes from the same game.

Great, now we will go from "This dumb clone stole a unique character slot! What a waste of a slot!" to "This dumb echo stole another echo slot! What a waste of a slot!".

Chrom should be added as an Echo just to say "please forgive me" to his fan base. I don't know how would I feel if one of my favourite character is shown BEATEN UP in as trailer and then every main character but him is added in Smash. I laughed at that trailer, but if instead of Chrom it was, IDK, Elma I would have been pissed as well.

 

[Idon]

I'd literally rather have Hector as an Ike echo than have yet another Fateswakening character.

Opossum's gonna hit me with the book of reasons why Chrom is the best ever, but honestly, that **** flew over my head on my playthroughs of that game.

 

[blazefan519]

No harm done except for the numerous echos that could exist from underrepresented series as well not pissing people off with even more with more Fire Emblem characters when Shadow, Ken, or whoever could have been a better echo choice. Three characters from the same game is the biggest problem with Chrom. Let alone two echoes from the same game.

"Underrepresented" Sakurai add who he wants. There isn't a series that is under or over represented and the notion a series deserves to meet some quota of fighters is something that the fans impose on themselves when that has never been the case. If he adds Chrom echo and not a Shadow echo, it's because he added a Chrom echo and not a Shadow echo and there's nothing else to that. Awakening still only has one unique character and until they add more I won't complain about it because they're only added Echoes to please the fans of that character who wouldn't have got in otherwise with minimal effort. I just don't see the problem.

I'd literally rather have Hector as an Ike echo than have yet another Fateswakening character.

Opossum's gonna hit me with the book of reasons why Chrom is the best ever, but honestly, that **** flew over my head on my playthroughs of that game.

Axe model over sword model, armor over an unarmored character

 

[PSIGuy]

let's just say Corrin is the Smash 5 newcomer and in exchange for no longer complaining about Fire Emblem, we are spared from any additional FE reps (newcomer OR Echo) for this game
square deal?

 

[Will]

I'd literally rather have Hector as an Ike echo than have yet another Fateswakening character.

Opossum's gonna hit me with the book of reasons why Chrom is the best ever, but honestly, that **** flew over my head on my playthroughs of that game.

It could be Three Houses for all I care
just not another one of them

I count the Gaiden remake in that group as well. No offense to the game or anything, but it's easy to spot what it's trying to be.

 

[WaxPython]

I feel like one of the few people out there who actively dislike the idea of Chrom getting in smash. Considering we already have two characters from awakenig in it seems ridiculous to add a third. I also can't imagine Chrom as much more than an echo or semi clone of another Fire Emblem character. I love Fire Emblem as much as the next guy, but there are so many more interesting characters to add than Chrom.

What's wrong with making him an echo fighter? And he's in more games than just awakening.

And they can give him lightning which is cool and interesting. Sakurai even said that Lucina was extremely lucky to get in instead of being a costume like planned.

If irrelevant characters like Daisy get in as echo fighters I'm willing to wager money that highly requested and popular characters like
Chrom will easily get in as echo fighters.

 

[AzureFlame4]

Great, now we will go from "This dumb clone stole a unique character slot! What a waste of a slot!" to "This dumb echo stole another echo slot! What a waste of a slot!".

Chrom should be added as an Echo just to say "please forgive me" to his fan base. I don't know how would I feel if one of my favourite character is shown BEATEN UP in as trailer and then every main character but him is added in Smash. I laughed at that trailer, but if instead of Chrom it was, IDK, Elma I would have been pissed as well.

Unfortunately, that's just the nature of a game like smash. No matter how you argue it, a character did take away another characters chance. (echo for echo and actual newcomer for actual newcomer of course.) People will be mad either way. My main hatred for Chrom is three characters from the same game though. Aside from Fire Emblem Warriors they can't even be claimed by another game. I'm a huge Fire Emblem fan but enough is enough.

 

[Shroob]

let's just say Corrin is the Smash 5 newcomer and in exchange for no longer complaining about Fire Emblem, we are spared from any additional FE reps (newcomer OR Echo) for this game
square deal?

Honestly, no.

I get that people are tired of Fire Emblem having soo many characters, but I personally think it kinda deserves that many tbh.

I honestly feel like if we could just veer away from the oh-so-despised "Anime Swordsman" design, people would be more okay with it tbh.


Celica, for example, would be great. She'd bring something to the table that not a lot of Smashers do(Magic). Only Zelda and Robin can be considered dedicated 'mages'.

 

[Idon]

"Underrepresented" Sakurai add who he wants. There isn't a series that is under or over represented and the notion a series deserves to meet some quota of fighters is something that the fans impose on themselves when that has never been the case. If he adds Chrom echo and not a Shadow echo, it's because he added a Chrom echo and not a Shadow echo and there's nothing else to that. Awakening still only has one unique character and until they add more I won't complain about it because they're only added Echoes to please the fans of that character who wouldn't have got in otherwise with minimal effort. I just don't see the problem.

Axe model over sword model, armor over an unarmored character

Eh, they're both big heavy weapons and armor is just an aesthetic thing.