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A selfish part of me wants to see all Awakening main cast together, but I was content with Chrom aiding Robin. I doubt he'll be a fighter but I'd be okay with it.
Sure if he wants to flesh out and Dixie wasn't already in, but it'd be a waste of a character model and disservice to the character.
I don't think echoes really will be padding. Unlike Melee, Sakurai made it extremely clear that they aren't 100% new additions and we don't need any more fighters with a 60+ roster.
) or only as an echo. And it's easier to consider Dixie as a Diddy echo than K.Rool as a Bowser echo (but I can concieve of both...)
One thing to point out about series backlash; I also don't persume to be Sakurai, but the backlash over Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus (which I don't remember too much of? Are you just reffering to Dark Pit?) is because most of the added characters weren't necessarily highly requested (Robin, Corrin & Dark Pit. You can even make arguments for Lucina and Roy). Even though they have some fan bases, they don't compare at all to the fan demand of King K. Rool or even Dixie.We keep coming around to this Dixie-can't-be-an-echo topic, and all I can hear is "It would be criminal to add Ganondorf as a Captain Falcon clone! He doesn't even punch or kick in his fights, and he definitely doesn't have magic-charged kicks. Every Ganondorf boss fight has used Dead Man's Volley in some form, so if they even thought about including Ganondrof without his main projectile that would be totally out of character!"
Uhh...
And it works well enough. True, HW Dorf is quite a bit more faithful than Smash Dorf, but it worked in Melee and Brawl. Smash 4 needed to fix the animations so he didn't move like a derpy grandpa and then it would have been okay.
I don't want to presume about Sakurai's mind, but every poll has shown that K.Rool is favored over Dixie, despite Dixie being quite a bit more recent. Sakurai may be hesitant to spend too much time on a single series after the backlash he got from focusing heavily on KI or FE from last time (then again, if any series deserves more love this game than other series, it's DK). I fear that he'll only want to devote the time to one of them, and leave the other as an echo at that. Of course it'd be best for both to be unique, and there's a good chance of that. But there's a good chance that we could only get one (or none
Sure, it'd be wrong for Dixie to not use her hair - as wrong as it is for Ganondorf to not have a magic projectile.
I don't think Chrom will get in because "too many sword wielders".
Didn't even read all that, but yeah. That's enough to convince me it's not a rip-off.Okay,Guh-Huzzah! , I've written up the differences between Pokémon and Digimon.
Well then, allow me to explain!
I hope to God this covers everything and is understandable to anyone but myself. XDWhat is Digimon, the Franchise?
Digimon is a spinoff of Tamagotchi aimed at boys, focusing more on raising Monsters for battle rather than to care for them. It eventually grew into a multi-media franchise, I'll be focusing on the more popular franchises over the V-Pets.Digimon Continuity
To preface this, I'll list off the different continuities of Digimon, I'll assume you have a working knowledge of how Pokémon works to save time.Naturally, I won't cover every continuity, since then I'd be here all night, and most of them have similarities anyway.
- Digimon V-Pets
- Digmon Adventure V-Tamer 01 (Manga)
- Digimon Adventure (2 Anime series, 3 Canon Movies and 1 non-canon movie, and Digimon Adventure Tri, a series of movie sequels)
- Digimon Tamers (Anime, two movies that may or may not be canon)
- Digimon Frontier (Anime, one non-canon movie)
- Digimon Savers (Anime, one non-canon movie), called Digimon Data Squad in the West
- Digimon Xros Wars (2 Anime series), called Digimon Fusion in the west, has an alternate retelling in manga form.
- Digimon Universe: Applimon (Anime, and Manga)
- Digimon X-Evolution (a movie unrelated to the others)
- C'Mon Digimon (manga)
- Digimon Chronicle (manga)
- Digimon D-Cyber (manga)
- Digimon Next (manga)
- Digimon World (series of games)
- Digimon Story (a series of games that expanded upon Digimon World 3's formula, I think, this has multiple continuities)
Pokémon World vs. The Digital World and More Digimon Continuity
In Digimon, there is a “Digital World”, a parallel dimension connected to the “Real World” via computer networks (it's weird, bear with me). There are also multiple unconnected universes: for example, there are six Anime continuities and multiple manga and game continuities, though this is not really any different from Pokémon having the game universe, the anime universe, the manga universes and Mystery Dungeon and other spinoff game universes.The Digital World is separate from the Real World, and in some continuities time passes much faster in the DW than in the Real World. In Pokémon, the Pokémon world is the real world, and Pokémon are theorized to come from space.Prior to Digimon Xros Wars: The Young Hunters who Leapt through Time, there was only one major connection between anime continuities: The protagonist of a series of Japan Exclusive Wonderswan games (Digimon Adventure: Anode Tamer & Cathode Tamer and it's sequels), eventually crossed dimensions from Digimon Adventure's continuity into Digimon Tamers'... somehow. In the dub this was never explained, but still hinted at. In Young Hunters, all the previous anime Main Characters reappeared to help the latest protagonists defeat the Big Bad of that series. Why? Anniversary tie-in.Pokémon Trainers vs. Digimon Tamers
There are characters, usually but not always children, called “Digimon Tamers”. Depending on the version, they can have just one “Digimon Partner” (Digimon Adventure V-Tamer 01, Digimon Adventure and it's sequels, Digimon Tamers, Digimon Savers and Digimon World) or multiple (Digimon Xros Wars, the extreme majority of the games). In one series, the characters don't have Digimon Partners, they instead become Digimon, this is Digimon Frontier. In the Digimon Adventure anime, “Digimon Tamers” are called “Chosen Children (JP)/Digidestined (Dub)”.Digimon the species vs. Pokémon the species
In most Digimon universes, Digimon are usually unknown, or a mystery (much moreso than they are a mystery in Pokémon).Digimon are always sapient creatures that can speak human languages, while certain Pokémon in certain continuities can learn to speak English (the anime Meowth) or can communicate telepathically (Mewtwo; Lucario; Zoroark; Arceus), they are the exception, not the norm. Pokémon are usually treated like animals, while they can understand human commands, this is little different to training a Dog.Certain games, like Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth Hacker's Memory, actually bring up the implications of people treating Digimon as tools.How Tamers acquire Digimon
In the continuities where a Tamer has only one partner, it's more of a soul-link bond kind of thing (hey, like Ash-Greninja!). They have one Digimon who will generally reflect their personality.In the continuities where a Tamer has multiple Digimon... well, there are actually three methods:In Digimon Xros Wars, the characters recruit armies of Digimon to fight with (with one main), they then fuse the Digimon together (DigiXros/DigiFuse) to achieve higher power. This is a case of the Tamer and Digimon having a common goal of defeating the Big Bad/fighting for the Big Bad, or the Digimon settling a debt with the army.In Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth, there is a character (who is not the main character), who has two Digimon partners who she treats like the Digimon from previous series. In Digimon World: Next 0rder, most Digimon Tamers have one partner, except the main character who has two for some reason and is considered special because of it. There is also a character in V-Tamer 01 who also has two Digimon. When a Tamer has two Digimon, it's almost always Agumon and Gabumon (who are, or have, evolved into WarGreymon and MetalGarurumon), who then fuse into Omegamon (Omnimon in the Dub). As the player character, you are given the freedom to deviate from this mold. In the Digimon Adventure movie “Hurricane Touchdown!” (part three of Digimon: the Movie), there is Wallace (Willis in the dub), who has Terriermon and Lopmon.In the Digimon Story games, it plays a little bit more like Pokémon (you collect teams of Digimon to use in battles). Even there, it is different to Pokémon, when facing a Digimon, you scan data on them, when you have scanned enough data, you can generate a new instance of that Digimon.Evolution
Like Pokémon, Digimon evolve (well, to get pedantic, both undergo metamorphosis, but that's splitting hairs). They both also hatch from Eggs (though Pokémon do so in a more natural way... or so we think... Digimon eggs are usually just reincarnated Digimon.In the Dub, evolution is called Digivolution, presumably to differentiate it from Pokémon, also they added "Digi" to everything!There are a few key differences.Firstly, Digimon have twice as many evolution stages as a Pokémon can; Pokémon can only have a maximum of three not including the Egg stage, four with Mega Evolution; a Digimon has six stages not including Egg stage, or seven if you count the rare Super Ultimate stage)Digimon Evolution Stages (Sub/Dub): Digi-Egg > Baby I/Fresh > Baby II/In-Training > Child/Rookie > Adult/Champion > Perfect/Ultimate > Ultimate/Mega > Super Ultimate/UltraWhen left alone, Digimon will evolve over time; however, the process can be sped up by having a Digimon Tamer (the method of this varies depending on whether it's the anime or games). If a Digimon evolves naturally, the evolution is permanent, just like Pokémon; however, if they evolve by means of their Digimon Tamer, the evolution is temporary. This is just like Pokémon's Mega Evolution concept, and has been a staple of the series since Digimon Adventure.Digimon can also fuse, this is called "Jogress Evolution" (DNA Digivolution in the Dub) or "DigiXros" (DigiFusion in the Dub). DigiXros is exclusive to the Xros Wars series, and is more like a MegaZord kind of thing. (As an aside, "Jogress" is a portmanteau of "Joint Progress").Generally, there is no true way a Digimon will evolve, their evolution trees are huge webs of cross pollination. As an example, an Agumon can evolve into Greymon, GeoGreymon, Veedramon, Sukamon, Centarumon, Leomon, Monochromon and a few others. Veemon can also evolve into Veedramon, and other Digimon also have similar crossovers.Most Digimon have 'official' lines, for Agumon it's: Botamon > Koromon > Agumon > Greymon > MetalGreymon > WarGreymon > Omegamon and Botamon > Koromon > Agumon > GeoGreymon > RizeGreymon > ShineGreymon > ShineGreymon: Burst Mode, but these aren't necessarily what all Agumon will evolve into.When Digimon die, they reincarnate into a new Digimon, starting from an egg; however, this only applies in the Digital World, if a Digimon dies in the real world, they're gone for good (except as ghosts). This is a plot point multiple times.Gods of Digimon and Pokémon
Both series have Gods, go figure. In Pokémon, the top god is Arceus, but Arceus might just be an uber-powerful Pokémon. Digimon's Top God, Yggdrasil, is the "Main Server" of the Digital World, it's not really a Digimon, in multiple continuities, Yggdrasil becomes faulty and is replaced by "Homeostasis", though the being didn't get a name until the Xros Wars manga, it appeared as early as Digimon Adventure.Digimon also has other gods based on the gods of other religions (example: the "Olympos XII" guess who they're based on). But they're just really, really powerful Digimon. There's also the "Seven Great Demon Lords" (Seven Deadly Digimon in the dub), who are... well, the seven deadly sins.Digimon really, really likes referencing mythology in an overt way, while Pokémon is more covert with it's mythological references.Types
This is a big difference between Digimon and Pokémon, in Pokémon there are 18 Types (Normal, Grass, Fire, Water, Electric, Fighting, Flying, Poison, Psychic, Ghost, Bug, Rock, Ground, Ice, Dragon, Steel, Dark and Fairy). In Digimon, there are six main types, called Attributes: Vaccine, Data, Virus, Free, Variable and Unknown. The first three Attributes have a Rock-Paper-Scissors relationship Vaccine > Virus > Data > Vaccine; Free and Variable are always tied with the main ones, and Unknown is always dominant.In the games, there are other sub-types: Fire, Water, Plant, Wind, Electric, Rock, Metal, Holy, Evil, Neutral and "Filth", they have their own RPS relationships (Water > Fire > Plant, and Electric > Wind > Rock) that are unconnected to the Attributes.A Digimon will be one Attribute and one Type, unlike Pokémon who can have one or two types.Some Digimon have abilities that grant them advantages over other families of Digimon, for example WarGreymon's claws are especially effective against Draconic Digimon (Digimon with 'dramon' in their name); this only really applies to the Anime.Pokémon Vs. Digimon
In America, Pokémon and Digimon were localised at about the same time, with Digimon probably being localised as an attempt to cash in on the "Mons" craze. In Japan, Pokémon Red & Green released in February 1996, Tamagotchi started in November of the same year, and Digimon was spawned from Tamagotchi when Bandai wanted to create something more masculine to appeal to Boys. While there is wriggle-room to argue that Tamagotchi (and therefore Digimon) were created in response to Pokémon, it's unlikely.This is an interesting little fact that is up to opinion, but the general consensus of fans of both Pokémon and Digimon is that Pokémon has the better games, while Digimon has the better anime.
Again, this argument is literally bull**** and doesn’t even have baring on character choices. It doesn’t matter if they wield a sword or not.
This argument holds no merit. That's like saying "there's too many people who use their fists and feet for combat". It's a very dumb argument that shouldn't have even been a big deal to begin with.
but ryu literally invented the archetype. he's the original, especially from a games perspective. ryu is going to be ryu. dont blame the character for being generic when the genre spawned as an echo to him. very few of the street fighter characters would pop off a smash roster for their personality to begin with. Most of the ones that have personality are newer characters and the fanbase wouldnt react to them getting in very well at all.
I hate this argument. Most of the characters in Smash could be shoehorned into one of the Mii archetypes. By that logic, we also have too many characters who fight without weapons for most normal attacks.
I agree, it's not like Link or Marth fights remotely similar to Ike or Shulk.
More so I think the argument should be, "FE has too many Sword Wielders " as oppose to Smash itself. I mean every other franchise that has multiple characters have drastically different abilities among their company. Sure you've got your P1 and P2 scenarios but then you haveI hate this argument. Most of the characters in Smash could be shoehorned into one of the Mii archetypes. By that logic, we also have too many characters who fight without weapons for most normal attacks.
Just because two characters hold swords doesn’t mean they’re the same: Link and Marth couldn’t be more different if they tried.
I know Sakurai mentioned that he was hesitant to add Corrin because of Fire Emblem oversaturation, not swordsman oversaturation.
vs or vs
Jr. being a mech character in his Clown Car was a breath of fresh air. I know a lot of fans still hold onto his sunshine appearance with the paintbrush (I do too, Sunshine was my first big Mario game I played by myself) but his entire character now is using mech and gadgets.
Cosmic77
in that swordwielders are pretty boring in that they don't do a lot of different/unique things in their normals, smashes, and aerials (save for Corrin). There's not a lot of room for creativity in the moves. Not saying all sword characters are the exact same, but could certainly stand out a bit more in their movesets. A lot of it is probably "too much FE" though.
But this isn't an argument. FE's protagonists commonly use swords and unlike other franchises, it doesn't have side characters to be included.More so I think the argument should be, "FE has too many Sword Wielders " as oppose to Smash itself. I mean every other franchise that has multiple characters have drastically different abilities among their company. Sure you've got your P1 and P2 scenarios but then you have
She will probably fire bubblegum, like she does in her most recent appearance. As for the jetpack, she uses one in Barrel Blast.
Technically, every Fire Emblem character has a counter in their games, as the counter moves are a nod to Fire Emblem's battle system.
Alright then. Forgive me if this sounds green green but do they all have to function the same?
im not a fire emblem expert but looking at heroes smash inclusions have been pretty reserved there are MANY more weapons that could have been seen. axes, bows, lances, even dragon stones would have been cool. there's a loved character under every weapon in the game that could have done well in smash.More so I think the argument should be, "FE has too many Sword Wielders " as oppose to Smash itself. I mean every other franchise that has multiple characters have drastically different abilities among their company. Sure you've got your P1 and P2 scenarios but then you have
I can see a mounted character being bery difficult to program, and that also extends to Excitebiker/Mach Rider.
ulttoonlink:, and several counters on non-swordsmen
They don't necessarily have to function the same, though I'd argue that Corrin's counter is pretty distinguished from the rest of the Fire Emblem counters as the knockback is vertical, and it cannot be used for edgeguarding.
The same way Lucina gets Aether and her correct sword size. (Hint: she doesn't)
From what I can tell, counter specials are hated because all of them follow the same basic concept of being hit and then unleashing an attack in response. The only counter move that deviates from this mold is Witch Time. All the rest of them only vary in knockback angles, hitboxes, and damage values. I think. There's so many of them, and I always forget Peach has one.Also, I never got the hate for counter specials. They are situationally useful, and are not a defining trait of swordsmen. There are several lacking counters
Yeah but both Robin and Corrin didn't remotely need a sword at all. I know that Corrin only uses their sword for like 7-8 attacks while the rest are dragon but honestly, they could have gone pure tome and pure dragonstone. Corrin wasn't even necessary, we could have gotten Azura for that waterbending spear moveset. The point is, they've had chances to branch out but decided not to.
There is literally no game in the franchise where Ephraim uses a staff.
Welp My bad then.
I do agree that Smash should introduce other weapons for varying play styles (more of a reason as to why I would like to see Simon). But their weapon of choice should never be something that should discredit their chances to be in the game.
We get so many FE characters who wield a sword because all of the main characters (with the exception of Hector, Ephraim and Micaiah) primarily uses a sword. Blame Intelligent System, not Smash, for how lopsided the sword representation is for a franchise where weapon variety is important.
Unless Diddy's ledge attack gets changed so that he doesn't use his tail, I really doubt Dixie is even feasible as am Echo Fighter
Agreed. I think he's great the way he is.
To be fair, the weapon of choice can effect how Sakurai looks at the character. That's part of the reason why we got Robin over Chrom.
Chrom got dismissed because Sakurai felt he was "another plain old sword wielder like Marth and Ike with no unique characteristics." If chrom had something inherently unique to him like, I don't know, a wind sword, he wouldn't have likely been dismissed. I mean, Smash 4 was the same game where half the DLC newcomers were sword wielders
