Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[P.Kat]

Just had a horrible thought. After seeing Smash in the background, what if they do the same thing to Ultimate's intro, that they did to Smash 4's intro, but instead of random game play, they just show off the same order of characters that Sakurai did at E3. What if the character introduction video we saw at E3 IS THE INTRO?!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Just had a horrible thought. After seeing Smash in the background, what if they do the same thing to Ultimate's intro, that they did to Smash 4's intro, but instead of random game play, they just show off the same order of characters that Sakurai did at E3. What if the character introduction video we saw at E3 IS THE INTRO?!

Then we're living in the worst possible timeline.

 

[KMDP]

Just had a horrible thought. After seeing Smash in the background, what if they do the same thing to Ultimate's intro, that they did to Smash 4's intro, but instead of random game play, they just show off the same order of characters that Sakurai did at E3. What if the character introduction video we saw at E3 IS THE INTRO?!

Wouldn't be the first time they did that.

Melee's intro is just the E3 trailer with a few clips near the end replaced with new ones.

 

[RandomAce]

Just had a horrible thought. After seeing Smash in the background, what if they do the same thing to Ultimate's intro, that they did to Smash 4's intro, but instead of random game play, they just show off the same order of characters that Sakurai did at E3. What if the character introduction video we saw at E3 IS THE INTRO?!

It probably might be.

I can’t imagine them making an entire new unique intro as much as I love too.

They did this ever since Melee when it was first revealed.

Anyways, now that I’m curious, when do you guys think there will be the next reveal.

At this point, I think it might be August, there’s only like 2 weeks left of July, so I’m going to just take some time to relax during that time.

 

[OdnetninAges]

Just had a horrible thought. After seeing Smash in the background, what if they do the same thing to Ultimate's intro, that they did to Smash 4's intro, but instead of random game play, they just show off the same order of characters that Sakurai did at E3. What if the character introduction video we saw at E3 IS THE INTRO?!

Doubt it. No Ridley, or any other newcomers yet to be revealed.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I remember when it took around 6-7 months after the initial reveal trailer for there to be any new info, and the new character reveal was just Fox's return. It took five months later for Sakurai to update his site and post regular updates. We finally got our first post-reveal newcomer on August 1st 2007, over a year since the initial reveal.

Good old Brawl days.

----

 

[Idon]

I just want something half as good as the Melee intro...

 

[P.Kat]

It probably might be.

I can’t imagine them making an entire new unique intro as much as I love too.

They did this ever since Melee when it was first revealed.

Anyways, now that I’m curious, when do you guys think there will be the next reveal.

At this point, I think it might be August, there’s only like 2 weeks left of July, so I’m going to just take some time to relax during that time.

August, hopefully August 9th specifically.

 

[Patriot Duck]

Going through the footage from that tournament, I just found out Inkling can crawl.

For some....reason...

 

[Danpal65]

Going through the footage from that tournament, I just found out Inkling can crawl.

For some....reason...

But Metroid can’t?!

 

[KMDP]

Going through the footage from that tournament, I just found out Inkling can crawl.

For some....reason...

That's great!

But can Metroid?
EDIT: Seems Danpal65 and I are on the same wavelength on this.

 

[P.Kat]

Alright I'll see y'all around heading to bed

 

[KMDP]

Alright I'll see y'all around heading to bed

Good night, P.Kat.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It probably might be.

I can’t imagine them making an entire new unique intro as much as I love too.

They did this ever since Melee when it was first revealed.

Anyways, now that I’m curious, when do you guys think there will be the next reveal.

At this point, I think it might be August, there’s only like 2 weeks left of July, so I’m going to just take some time to relax during that time.

Either late July or early August. EVO is coming up soon (August 3rd - 5th) so we might get something there too.

Alright I'll see y'all around heading to bed

Goodnight! Get some good sleep.

 

[Chandeelure]

Going through the footage from that tournament, I just found out Inkling can crawl.

For some....reason...

For the same reason Villager can wall jump.

 

[Idon]

Alright, I made it through the stream and very little of value was gained.
I will now rest for the next 13 or so hours.
Before I go, have a picture of what I've been doing for the past day

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Just had a horrible thought. After seeing Smash in the background, what if they do the same thing to Ultimate's intro, that they did to Smash 4's intro, but instead of random game play, they just show off the same order of characters that Sakurai did at E3. What if the character introduction video we saw at E3 IS THE INTRO?!

Still a huge improvement over Brawl's and Smash 4's intros as it's not just a bunch of random CGI/animated clips thrown together with no sense of flow whatsoever and constant jarring cuts (I still can't get over how horribly jarring it is to go from CGI to suddenly anime Palutena to random gameplay in the Smash 4 intro), while not really telling the player what the game is about. Melee may have just reused its E3 trailer, but that trailer was a full cohesive video specifically designed to give you an intro to what the game was about and pump you up for the game, and it certainly wow'd people who didn't see the trailer before playing the game. The roster reveal video for Ultimate succeeds in doing that, though I would much rather see a dedicated intro video made for the game.

 

[Koopaul]

For the same reason Villager can wall jump.

And yet DK can't despite being able to in Jungle Beat.

 

[osby]

For the same reason Villager can wall jump.

He has to have a detailed knowledge about walls, after all.

 

[Zinith]

Put DK among the list of characters who can't wall jump even if it makes sense to...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Dedede should be able to vault off of the side of a stage with his hammer. Just wedge that sucker against it and heaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave

in all seriousness no that'd be silly

Smooth Criminal

 

[Spaceless]

I haven't been following since last thursday. Did anything noteworthy happen? Any new leaks or something?

 

[KMDP]

Dedede should vault off of the side of a stage with his hammer. Just wedge that sucker against it and heaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave

in all seriousness no that'd be silly

Smooth Criminal

You know if Amy Rose were ever playable, that's how I want her to wall jump. XD

I haven't been following since last thursday. Did anything noteworthy happen? Any new leaks or something?

Nope. Ask DaybreakHorizon about leaks.

 

[osby]

You know if Amy Rose were ever playable, that's how I want her to wall jump. XD

Nope. Ask DaybreakHorizon about leaks.

That's silly, stages aren't that durable.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just had a horrible thought. After seeing Smash in the background, what if they do the same thing to Ultimate's intro, that they did to Smash 4's intro, but instead of random game play, they just show off the same order of characters that Sakurai did at E3. What if the character introduction video we saw at E3 IS THE INTRO?!

Then it's be like Melee's intro which was just the reveal trailer

 

[osby]

Then it's be like Melee's intro which was just the reveal trailer

Then it means every other newcomer will be revealed after the game is out?

 

[KMDP]

I think in terms of Smash Ultimate as we know it, an ACTUALLY BASED ON CLASSIC "Classic Mode", and then a Melee-like Adventure Mode (traveling through different worlds) is the way to go because of the base game content we know of.

Now, if all these companies involved get the proper voice actors, writers, designers, and other necessary people in line to create a really engaging story that feels like a natural fit? THEN they release it as like a "Season Pass" item with additional characters that fit the story? ****ing count me in.

Alright, so we talked about how this is basically the equivalent in being epic to Infinity War, but Infinity War was "all these heroes" vs. "The big bad". Smash kinda has this complication because there's no "Big Bad" that fights every Nintendo character. Everybody has their own.

Now, with everybody having their own, that makes me think that having a new 3rd party in the form of a villain, in order to add hype to the reveal of a story mode, I think it would be freaking awesome to do something like a montage of clips with Mario fighting Bowser, Samus and maybe Snake fighting Ridley, MAYBE have Eggman or Dr. Wily show up, Link and Zelda or Sheik fighting Ganondorf, show off a title and then, after the title fades:

Cloud takes down a few enemies, and pauses for a moment. All is quiet. A small breeze begins to blow by, and Cloud then quickly looks behind him. At the last moment, he brings his sword up to block an incoming strike and succeeds. Taking a moment to catch his breath, Cloud finally realizes who he's up against.

Cloud comes face to face with Sephiroth, who effectively says nothing, but just gives a stare. (they could do the iconic flashing like they applied to Ike vs. Cloud in his reveal trailer). They both prepare a strike again, but before they truly get into the battle, the video ends.

I'd probably crap myself if they did that.

...There's a Sephiroth Support Thread, just sayin'... just gonna leave it here.

 

[Mutsukki]

Just had a horrible thought. After seeing Smash in the background, what if they do the same thing to Ultimate's intro, that they did to Smash 4's intro, but instead of random game play, they just show off the same order of characters that Sakurai did at E3. What if the character introduction video we saw at E3 IS THE INTRO?!

I thought about that and.... yeah... it's very possible... and very scary

I don't want that.

Wouldn't be the first time they did that.

Melee's intro is just the E3 trailer with a few clips near the end replaced with new ones.

Then it's be like Melee's intro which was just the reveal trailer

People keep saying this like it was disappointing, but Melee's E3 trailer was a almost 100% unique CGI video synchronized with a orchestra soundtrack with very few gameplay footages to fill in-between. We didn't even get 1/3 of that with Ultimate.

 

[RandomAce]

EDIT: Sorry to cut this off, but I don’t want to be in any conversations right now.

Alright so the hype died down tremendously, hopefully we get some new info tomorrow or in a couple of days.

Can everyone say goodnight to me?

 

[osby]

Alright so the hype died down tremendously, hopefully we get some new info tomorrow or in a couple of days.

Can everyone say goodnight to me?

Goodnight.

EDIT: Agreed, as long as it's new, I wouldn't mind an intro like Smash For and Brawl's one. Brawl at least showed some footage first time.

 

[Zinith]

To be honest, I don’t a lot of people care about the intro anymore. It’s always nice to something like Melee’s but at this point it’s sort of redundant since it’s one time thing.

Off topic:

Alright so the hype died down tremendously, hopefully we get some new info tomorrow or in a couple of days.

Can everyone say goodnight to me?

Nighty night

 

[KMDP]

Alright so the hype died down tremendously, hopefully we get some new info tomorrow or in a couple of days.

Can everyone say goodnight to me?

Good night, RandomAce.

I thought about that and.... yeah... it's very possible... and very scary

I don't want that.




People keep saying this like it was disappointing, but Melee's E3 trailer was a almost 100% unique CGI video synchronized with a orchestra soundtrack with very few gameplay footages to fill in-between. We didn't even get 1/3 of that with Ultimate.

Thinking about that, Melee's trailer showed 69% of the roster.
Specifically: in that order.
Granted Ganondorf is more of a "hidden-in-plain-sight" thing.

I wonder who they'd show if they made a Smash Ultimate opening trailer showing the same percentage of characters... *thinking*

 

[osby]

Good night, RandomAce.

Thinking about that, Melee's trailer showed 69% of the roster.
Specifically: in that order.
Granted Ganondorf is more of a "hidden-in-plain-sight" thing.

I wonder who they'd show if they made a Smash Ultimate opening trailer showing the same percentage of characters... *thinking*

It wouldn't be good unless EVERYONE IS HERE!

Though, Melee also showed like only half of the newcomers.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Good night, RandomAce.

Thinking about that, Melee's trailer showed 69% of the roster.
Specifically: in that order.
Granted Ganondorf is more of a "hidden-in-plain-sight" thing.

I wonder who they'd show if they made a Smash Ultimate opening trailer showing the same percentage of characters... *thinking*

Mewtwo is also briefly sorta-visible in it, as at one point DK is caught in his charging Shadow Ball.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I haven't been following since last thursday. Did anything noteworthy happen? Any new leaks or something?

No good or noteworthy leaks. The biggest thing you missed was a fake picture leak had us going for an hour or so before being proven false.

Anyways, I decided to update my roster again. I literally only added 3 characters.

Spoiler: Roster

Before I give further reasonings, here are my reasonings for the characters I added before this revision:

Spoiler: My Reasonings

I'm largely working under the same assumptions that not too many newcomers is a half-truth, the ballot is being used, and Mii Costumes were a concession.
King K. Rool: I think it's safe to assume that K. Rool performed well in the ballot. Not just in the West like Ridley, but overall. Sakurai is definitely aware of the demand, seeing that K. Rool recieved a Mii Costume. I don't imagine that Sakurai couldn't come up with a moveset for him, as his problem with Ridley wasn't size, but conveying his vicious fighting style and being true to his character. It's definitely possible to make K. Rool true to his zany self. If we don't see K. Rool, then we'll see Dixie as a consolation of sorts.
Geno: Again, Geno likely performed decently in the ballot, moreso in the West. However, Geno's been a long time coming with his potential inclusion being a thing since Brawl. Sakurai likely already has a moveset prepared and only needed Square Enix's approval. He's already got them at the negotiations table, and he's already negotiated to use Geno as a mii costume, so I think next he's going to negotiate for Geno as a character.
Ashley: She's Japan's Ridley. Sakurai has commented on her popularity, acknowledging it with a Mii costume, and she'd be the "Little Mac" of this game. She balances out both Ridley and the Little Mac trend by being a predominantly Japanese pick. She'd bring a full mage moveset to the game, so she'd have a unique moveset too.
Bandana Waddle Dee: A moderately popular character overall who also has the perk of relevance in the Kirby series. A little bit of Sakubias could carry him as well. He fights with a Spear, which is also new to Smash Bros. in terms of movesets.
Lloyd/a Namco Rep: Lloyd is my bias, but I see us getting either Lloyd or Heihachi/a Tekken representative. Both are popular, having received Mii Costumes, represent prominent game series (Tales of being one of the "big three JRPGs" and Tekken being one of the big fighting games), and could bring new movesets to Smash (Lloyd with dual wielding swords and Heihachi with a Tekken based moveset). I think it comes down to two factors: who's more popular and who Sakurai can come up with a moveset for. Hell, we might get both at once, or (my guess) the other as DLC. If Lloyd is made into DLC, there's the possibility he becomes Yuri Lowell due to Tales of Vesperia's popularity and the upcoming definitive edition.
Simon Belmont: Not just due to Vergeben, but also because he's a popular third party pick. I think Simon Belmont would still be a popular character in fan speculation without Vergeben as he and his series are iconic. A whip moveset could also open up a lot of possibilities.
Chorus Men: A scrapped idea from Smash 4 (evidenced by Gematsu) that Sakurai can now add due to no technical limitations holding him back. A moveset is prepped, assets from Smash 4 development likely already exist (Smash Ultimate is built from Smash 4), and there's nothing stopping them this time.
Chibi-Robo: He's our WTF character, but he's also a Nintendo icon in his own right. His series has been around and kicking since the Gamecube Era, with him appearing on every console minus the Wii U in one form or another. In 2015 he also had relevance, with Chibi Robo Zip-Lash coming out then.
Dark Samus: An echo that's easy to make and promotes the upcoming Metroid Prime 4. Also adds some much needed Metroid representation.
Chrom: He's the perfect echo in my eyes. Sakurai has said he'd be too similar to Marth and Ike, he's made fun of for being too similar in a Palutena's guidance conversation, and Ike's moveset practically fits 1:1 on Chrom. And Sakurai gets to avoid Fire Emblem controversy as he takes little to no development time because he's an echo and he gets to please Fire Emblem fans who've been waiting for Chrom since the last game. Celica as a Robin echo is an honorable mention.
Isabelle: A popular character (she's practically the face of Animal Crossing) that's easy to add and appease fans. It's perfect.

Spoiler: Reasonings

The roster rounds to a nice 80 characters (84 counting Mii Fighters and Pokemon Trainer separately), which Nintendo can use when marketing the game. There are 17 newcomers, which, while the same number as Smash 4, is really only 12.5, as Dixie, Chrom, Isabelle, Dark Samus, and Daisy are based off of other characters, making their development easier. Characters like Incineroar and Bandana Dee can also borrow some moves from other characters.

Dixie Kong: A popular, relevant Donkey Kong character who was originally planned to be in Brawl. I imagine her being a semi-clone of Diddy Kong (or maybe an echo), which makes her easier to implement as a character.
Incineroar: I think he's the most likely Pokémon newcomer given that he could bring a unique fighting style to Smash, being that of a grappler/wrestler. That fighting style is classic, and I think Sakurai would want to represent that in Smash Bros. through Incineroar.
Erdrick: One of the leaks today I read really got to me when it said that the Japanese weren't as hyped about Smash 4 as Americans were with picks like Little Mac. I think that makes perfect sense. Characters like Little Mac and now Ridley cater primarily to American fans. Case in point: Little to no one played Ridley in the open tournament tonight compared to characters like Ike, Ness, and Inkling. I feel like this "Ultimate/Special" version of Smash Bros. is meant to cater to both western and eastern fans equally. Characters like Ridley and Geno are largely western picks, whereas characters like Ashley and Erdrick are largely eastern picks. Of course, there is overlap in terms of western/eastern appeal with all of these characters, but certain characters cater more towards certain demographics this time around. Plus, Sakurai might as well take all the Square Enix characters he can while he has them at the table, right?

FURTHER REASONINGS:
Lloyd: In my previous reasonings I cited bias as the reason I included Lloyd over Heihachi. However, looking back at what Sakurai said about Heihachi, I don't think we'll be seeing him in this game. When asked about Heihachi, Sakurai said "However, implementing Heihachi’s movement in Smash would be difficult." I think what's significant here is that he's not citing lack of a moveset, but difficulty of implementing the movement of Tekken, which is a 3D fighter. The 3D aspect is important to the series, and I don't think Sakurai and his team are going to be able to emulate to a point they'll be satisfied. Instead, Lloyd presents himself as a 2D fighter (no free run in Tales of Symphonia) with an already viable moveset (dual wielding swords) and louder fan demand than Heihachi. If we get another Namco rep, it's likely going to be Lloyd. We could also get Heihachi alongside Lloyd or as DLC though.
Simon: I legitimately think that if Simon gets in Konami had something to do with it. There are a couple of leaks that state that Konami specifically requested Simon, or even held Snake hostage and forced Simon in for Sakurai and his team to use Snake, and knowing Konami nowadays it sounds plausible. Castlevania has also been seeing a recent push from Konami in the form of the Netflix series, which has a second season coming out this October. The show's been in development for 10 years, and was likely picking up steam behind the scenes when Sakurai approached Konami to use Snake. Dude's also iconic, and is really the last true classic third party we need in my opinion. Plus, dude also showed up in a fighting game with Snake and Bomberman, so I feel like we'll be seeing him in some form.

REVEAL IDEAS/PREDICTIONS:
I'm actually going to try to predict when/how these will be revealed. This isn't a leak and I'm not a prophet. I'm just having some fun.
K. Rool and Dixie Kong: Trailer in late July/August in a Donkey Kong themed trailer (surprise).
Incineroar: Either EVO, a random reveal trailer (a lá Lucina and Robin), or a special Pokémon Direct around the time Lets Go comes out. Incineroar bodies Little Mac after he wins a Championship Belt.
Geno, Simon, and Dark Samus: Probably somewhere around Halloween. Preferably a continuation of Ridley's trailer where Zero Suit Samus is fighting Ridley, only for their fight to be interrupted by Simon, only for that fight to be interrupted by Dark Samus, only for that fight to get interrupted by Geno, who takes them out and revives Mario and Megaman. Good guys win. Yay.
Isabelle, Ashley, and Bandana Dee: A special Smash Bros. direct (in December-ish) where they're highlighted in Mini-Trailers. Sakurai can make more Waluigi jokes about how these characters got promoted from assist trophies and enemies to playable while he didn't.
Chrom and Erdrick: Reveal trailer at some point. Has Lucina getting her ass handed to her by Erdrick, only to be intercepted by Chrom, who finally gets his chance.
Lloyd: End of the final Smash Bros. Direct (December-ish). Cloud, Erdrick, and Mario are getting the snot kicked out of them by something (Skeleton Dancer maybe?). Lloyd jumps in with Guardian to deflect the final blow and saves their asses.
Chorus Kids and Chibi-Robo: not revealed, left to be unlocked by the player. The other echoes can potentially be "revealed" like this as well.

I might add DLC to this if you guys would be interested in seeing my thoughts on that as well.

 

[Mutsukki]

Good night, RandomAce.

Thinking about that, Melee's trailer showed 69% of the roster.
Specifically: in that order.
Granted Ganondorf is more of a "hidden-in-plain-sight" thing.

I wonder who they'd show if they made a Smash Ultimate opening trailer showing the same percentage of characters... *thinking*

Hmm.. but I believe it showed everyone that wasn't unlockable I think?

Now that I think about it it's more and more likely that the E3 trailer will be the game's intro lol, they wouldn't show everyone and it'd be a massive undertaking to make a CGI movie for it. And since we're not getting a ton of newcomers this time around, there won't be enough trailers to stitch togheter an intro like with Brawl or Smash 4... It would probably be all gameplay footage...

 

[KMDP]

Hmm.. but I believe it showed everyone that wasn't unlockable I think?

Now that I think about it it's more and more likely that the E3 trailer will be the game's intro lol, they wouldn't show everyone and it'd be a massive undertaking to make a CGI movie for it. And since we're not getting a ton of newcomers this time around, there won't be enough trailers to stitch togheter an intro like with Brawl or Smash 4... It would probably be all gameplay footage...

They showed every base roster character; except Ganondorf and Mewtwo (through implication) and Pichu and Jigglypuff (in plain sight), all four of which are unlockable.

It wouldn't be good unless EVERYONE IS HERE!

Though, Melee also showed like only half of the newcomers.

With the "EVERYONE IS HERE!" thing, they'd have to show all 68 characters, but have 99 characters in the game, to show the same percentage as Melee's roster.

 

[osby]

Hmm.. but I believe it showed everyone that wasn't unlockable I think?

Now that I think about it it's more and more likely that the E3 trailer will be the game's intro lol, they wouldn't show everyone and it'd be a massive undertaking to make a CGI movie for it. And since we're not getting a ton of newcomers this time around, there won't be enough trailers to stitch togheter an intro like with Brawl or Smash 4... It would probably be all gameplay footage...

Actually... I'd be fine with that too?

I don't know, Ultimate looks and sounds amazing and gameplay footage bits gets better with each game as we have more effects, characters and items with a dynamic camera. If it makes the team add more content, why not?

 

[DJ3DS]

So here is the Aces tier list.
https://rankedboost.com/mario-tennis-aces/best-characters-tier-list/

Waluigi, Bowser Junior, The Boo and Yoshi are the top tier characters.

They are the four boys.

Seen this before. It's a terrible site and the list is bad.

If it is for standard, Boo is a terrible character with no redeeming qualities. Yoshi is not great either.

If it is for simple then Peach should be right up there.

Chain Chomp is nowhere near as bad as claimed either way.

 

[osby]

99 characters in the game

Sounds good to me.