Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[EchoAegis]

And before I get lynched for denouncing Waluigi as playable or becoming so as DLC in Ultimate. I understand what it’s like want one certain character SO BADLY that you dread seeing them as an Assist Trophy. I’m in that boat right now, and that boat is the S. S. Isabelle.

I will be crushed if or when the day comes that she’s revealed to be an Assist Trophy again, but you know what I’m not going to do? Set myself up for disappointment that she’ll become DLC, or harass a many miles and miles away who has devoted so much time and energy into a series he feels somewhat trapped in to bring a a game where literally everyone who has ever been playable has been brought back because it’s something fans wanted.

Smash fans are never satisfied, and it’s kind of disrespectful to the man. He gives us every veteran and Ridley, and people are angry Waluigi isn’t in instead of being thankful the man made it a priority to bring everyone back.

That’s how you create anti-“insert character here” fans. Right now, it’s the Waluigi fans.

Dude, I have the same mindset as well my boat S. S. Celica hopefully makes it

But about Waluigi, I understand it pretty bad when your most wanted newcomers get deconfirmed it sucks but I think they need to suck it up and accept that he's not going to be a playable fighter and stop making points about his chances it's getting kinda sad.

I don't hate Waluigi but it's time for the S. S. Waluigi to sink

 

[blackghost]

Yup, which is why a character like Geno could never be a generally popular character among the Smash fanbase because he hasn't had a new major game appearance since 1996. Oh wait.
If anything the whole "echo chamber" argument itself comes from an echo chamber of what supposedly "makes sense."

i didnt name any characters in my post. this wasnt an attack on anyone character it was an observation. myobservation is very simple: some fanmade games like smash flash took time to make anime characters over older nintendo characters. Geno issues arent popularity its more seemingly due to licensing.
looking back at the ballot thing, the thing that to me argues these characters were not entirely preplanned is the music and tracks associated with cloud and bayo. CLoud and bayo came out with no tracks i dont know much about ffvii as a game but id assume there were more relvant songs than what we got bayonetta has world famous classic music in it. Acquiring licenses for music can take longer than making characters especially with music like bayonetta has in it. it will be interesting to see if bayonetta has her full music in smash ultimate. if she still doesnt that is also interesting.

 

[monadoboy]

K. Rool's costume isn't made with existing assets like Takamaru's and Knuckles' costumes. K. Rool already had a trophy that used his Paon design, his Mii costume uses his Rare design and new textures. That's a new design and new assets.

New assets or not, it doesn't mean anything other than they wanted to make a good costume.
Unless every other Mii costume uses reused assets there's nothing to see there.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Waluigi could still be playable. As a mii costume.

 

[Opossum]

Man this anti-Waluigi circlejerk is annoying. It's just profoundly idiotic that people are so quick to vilify all Waluigi supporters because of one guy sending Sakurai a death threat, meanwhile several Rayman supporters sent them to Artsy Omni after his leak, one of which was in Rayman's support thread, but there was no anti-Rayman sentiment after that.

It's disgusting that people pretend it's standing against death threats when in reality they're using it as a convenient scapegoat to put down a character they don't like. Pathetic, really.

 

[EchoAegis]

meanwhile several Rayman supporters sent them to Artsy Omni after his leak, one of which was in Rayman's support thread, but there was no anti-Rayman sentiment after that.

I wasn't around during that time but did that really happen? if so Jesus Christ

 

[Deleted member]

I personally don't see Isabelle showing up as playable either.

Villager already represents so much of the franchise on his own. All Isabelle has left are the Public Works Projects, and I'm not sure how fun that would be.

And she can't be an Echo since her model is vastly different than Villager's.

This argument is honestly tiring to see.
Like Animal Crossing being represented by only Villager is off, and considering Animal Crossing is pretty popular filled with many different and diverse stuff.
We need Isabelle with him to fully represent it.
I think Isabelle and Villager as Animal Crossing representatives is jut fine.
Isabelle is by far the best Animal Crossing newcomer.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Dude, I have the same mindset as well my boat S. S. Celica hopefully makes it

But about Waluigi, I understand it pretty bad when your most wanted newcomers get deconfirmed it sucks but I think they need to suck it up and accept that he's not going to be a playable fighter and stop making points about his chances it's getting kinda sad.

I don't hate Waluigi but it's time for the S. S. Waluigi to sink

A lot of us have our boats/ships trying to dock in Roster of Smash Ultimate. These are treacherous seas though, and not all of us can make it. We’ve already lost the S.S. Takamaru, S.S. Lyn, S.S. Bomberman, and S.S. Waluigi to the Assist Trophy Sea.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Man this anti-Waluigi circlejerk is annoying. It's just profoundly idiotic that people are so quick to vilify all Waluigi supporters because of one guy sending Sakurai a death threat, meanwhile several Rayman supporters sent them to Artsy Omni after his leak, one of which was in Rayman's support thread, but there was no anti-Rayman sentiment after that.

It's disgusting that people pretend it's standing against death threats when in reality they're using it as a convenient scapegoat to put down a character they don't like. Pathetic, really.

Most of the recent comments (like as of the last two pages) haven't been about the guy who bothered Sakurai.

I'm speaking for myself but defintely from what I've seen in these last two pages haven been more try to lower people's near impossible expectations.

Yea that one guy is an asshole. Not all Waluigi fans are like that, but they defintely should not be expecting him because "He's a cheater" or "Sakurai is a Troll".

 

[Troykv]

No - Fire Emblem's only given us characters and a handful of stages. And Lyn's an assist, but she's the only non-character or stage in the universe. Considering representation outside of characters, Fire Emblem's actually lacking.

It's kind of funny that each franchise has as many or more stages than characters (despite the Pokémon sharing background art on the official site) save for ROB (who fits best with any of the old arcade ones) and Fire Emblem, which I think is up to three...all three they've ever had.

We need more Extra FE Content and a Gyromite/R.O.B. Themed Stage.

 

[PsySmasher]

And before I get lynched for denouncing Waluigi as playable or becoming so as DLC in Ultimate. I understand what it’s like want one certain character SO BADLY that you dread seeing them as an Assist Trophy. I’m in that boat right now, and that boat is the S. S. Isabelle.

I will be crushed if or when the day comes that she’s revealed to be an Assist Trophy again, but you know what I’m not going to do? Set myself up for disappointment that she’ll become DLC, or harass a man many miles and miles away who has devoted so much time and energy into a series he feels somewhat trapped in to bring a a game where literally everyone who has ever been playable has been brought back because it’s something fans wanted.

Smash fans are never satisfied, and it’s kind of disrespectful to the man. He gives us every veteran and Ridley, and people are angry Waluigi isn’t in instead of being thankful the man made it a priority to bring everyone back.

That’s how you create anti-“insert character here” fans. Right now, it’s the Waluigi fans.

I hear you man. I just hope that the S.S Ashley isn’t sinking this time around (I already lost the S.S Lyn).

The Waluigi situation is just sad to me. I used to hate him with a burning passion. Over the past few years, I actually grown to genuinely like the character. But all of these overdramatic Waluigi fanboys are making me hate him even more than I did in the past. It’s sad really.

 

[P.Kat]

Nice! I love arms!

Got to admit my favorites are probably Min Min (most useful for me in the game), Lola Pop, and Byte and Barq.

Because Barq is freaking adorable. To the max.



Actually I feel pretty good. Barbara the Bat’s franchise seems to have gone inactive to a point she’s no longer an assist trophy and a character with a bard moveset could be great.

Slider could cause poison, ice, electric, fire, and dark effects based on the tune being played.

And no one has competently fought with a guitar since that legend of the West, El Kabong.

*ding dong*
I'll get it.
Oh *turns to you it's for you*

But yeah now that you mention it we haven't seen Barbara haven't we? And I agree having a fighter with a bard mechanic would be amazing.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Dude, I have the same mindset as well my boat S. S. Celica hopefully makes it

But about Waluigi, I understand it pretty bad when your most wanted newcomers get deconfirmed it sucks but I think they need to suck it up and accept that he's not going to be a playable fighter and stop making points about his chances it's getting kinda sad.

I don't hate Waluigi but it's time for the S. S. Waluigi to sink

Well, if we're thinking of things that way, the S.S. Dovahkiin hasn't even been built. Darn.

Still, the Assists in this game seem to be a lot more involved that they were previously now that they can be KOd and have several attacks (stock icons plz?) I think it'd be cool if we had an option like the "item chooser" for the Assists and the Pokéballs so we could also choose which ones we wanted to see - it'd make a great way to have custom events (remember the Bomb event in Melee where every Pokéball was programmed to be an Electrode?)

Or since the Assists are KOable and more intricate, do you think we'll get Event matches where we need to fight an assist?

 

[Opossum]

Most of the recent comments (like as of the last two pages) haven't been about the guy who bothered Sakurai.

I'm speaking for myself but defintely from what I've seen in these last two pages haven been more try to lower people's near impossible expectations.

Yea that one guy is an *******. Not all Waluigi fans are like that, but they defintely should not be expecting him because "He's a cheater" or "Sakurai is a Troll".

It was less "lower your expectations" and more "you're an idiot if you think it's possible for an Assist to be upgraded for DLC even though Sakurai never said such a thing was impossible."

 

[EchoAegis]

A lot of us have our boats/ships trying to dock in Roster of Smash Ultimate. These are treacherous seas though, and not all of us can make it. We’ve already lost the S.S. Takamaru, S.S. Lyn, S.S. Bomberman, and S.S. Waluigi to the Assist Trophy Sea.

Oh man if I was able to draw I would be drawing this currently such a funny and sad image came up into my mind

 

[Murlough]

To be fair, it is a little annoying when you pour your heart and soul into trying to main a low-tier character or a character with a high learning curve, and then someone comes along with Bayo, picks her up in a day, and is basically "LOL ladder combos and Witch Time".

It's fine if you want main a character with a low learning curve, but that character shouldn't have so many strengths that their moveset basically becomes a "low risk, high reward".

Bayonetta doesn't have a low learning curve. At low level yes she doesn't take a ton of skill because low level players spin the control stick and call it "SDI." At high level though Bayo requires character knowledge. Obviously she naturally is easier to do well with than, say, Zelda but she isn't braindead.

I do agree with you that she shouldn't be as oppressive as she is though.

Cloud on the other hand takes almost no effort for the reward he provides.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Why didn't Waluigi make it into Ultimate come on Nintendo! what a huge missed opportunity for fans of his character. At least he'll be an Assist Trophy once more but since Brawl I've always wanted Waluigi in smash he could be great to have there and would be a pretty good fighter. I mean god u put Daisy in Ultimate why not Waluigi!
Guess well keep dreaming and hoping one day it will happen.

Daisy is slightly more important and didn’t need a unique moveset of her own to Smash

No - Fire Emblem's only given us characters and a handful of stages. And Lyn's an assist, but she's the only non-character or stage in the universe. Considering representation outside of characters, Fire Emblem's actually lacking.

It's kind of funny that each franchise has as many or more stages than characters (despite the Pokémon sharing background art on the official site) save for ROB (who fits best with any of the old arcade ones) and Fire Emblem, which I think is up to three...all three they've ever had.

We need more Extra FE Content

This can only be solved with more everything for Fire Emblem (extra character, assists, items/weapons, music, stages...and Palutena roasts)

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I hear you man. I just hope that the S.S Ashley isn’t sinking this time around (I already lost the S.S Lyn).

The Waluigi situation is just sad to me. I used to hate him with a burning passion. Over the past few years, I actually grown to genuinely like the character. But all of these overdramatic Waluigi fanboys are making me hate him even more than I did in the past. It’s sad really.

To be completely honest, I have nothing against Waluigi. I’m not anti-Waluigi. I’m just trying to temper expectations, because some of the things be said in support of him as playable at this point are just reaching and desperate.

 

[KMDP]

A lot of us have our boats/ships trying to dock in Roster of Smash Ultimate. These are treacherous seas though, and not all of us can make it. We’ve already lost the S.S. Takamaru, S.S. Lyn, S.S. Bomberman, and S.S. Waluigi to the Assist Trophy Sea.

What they don't realise is there's a much safer "Newcomer Sea" just around the corner; unfortunately, it's the only route they've ever known.

So far, only Little Mac has successfully found this sea, but he's being a jerk about and won't tell the others.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It was less "lower your expectations" and more "you're an idiot if you think it's possible for an Assist to be upgraded for DLC even though Sakurai never said such a thing was impossible."

Well once again I can only speak for myself and as a Ridley fan who went near the same situation, I sincerely hope Waluigi fans temper their expectations. On a side though I do wish people would stop citing the "cheater" or "Sakurai's a troll" since that's not really evidence.

 

[Koopaul]

But yeah now that you mention it we haven't seen Barbara haven't we? And I agree having a fighter with a bard mechanic would be amazing.

Oh man that would be a dream come true. But I'm not getting my hopes up. There's not going to be a lot of newcomers this time around and she has too much competition.

Still, I'd love to smash people over the head with a guitar and blast people away with electric power chords.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This argument is honestly tiring to see.
Like Animal Crossing being represented by only Villager is off, and considering Animal Crossing is pretty popular filled with many different and diverse stuff.
We need Isabelle with him to fully represent it.
I think Isabelle and Villager as Animal Crossing representatives is jut fine.
Isabelle is by far the best Animal Crossing newcomer.

She's by far the best only because the only possible ones are Tom Nook, who's already a Final Smash cameo, and Isabelle herself.

If Isabelle gets in, however, I can guarantee it won't be as a Villager Echo like I've seen some suggest because she'd need to have this body build.

Which would be so different from her own build that it would be unsettling and alienating.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

What they don't realise is there's a much safer "Newcomer Sea" just around the corner; unfortunately, it's the only route they've ever known.

So far, only Little Mac has successfully found this sea, but he's being a jerk about and won't tell the others.

That shady *****. Little Mac needs to spill the T to Isabelle.

 

[EchoAegis]

It was less "lower your expectations" and more "you're an idiot if you think it's possible for an Assist to be upgraded for DLC even though Sakurai never said such a thing was impossible."

I hope I wasn't coming out like a ass in my posts about Waluigi if so I apologize. But I personally believe now with the ability to knockout assist trophies now it pretty much is Sakurai saying they're not gonna be fighters but you can still interact with the characters who missed the cut.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Actually my uncle works at Nintendo and he confirmed to me that Waluigi will in fact be playable in smash ultimate. He will team up with Shrek in the new story mode.

 

[Pacack]

As someone who has no attachment to Waluigi whatsoever, the claim that it is impossible for him to be added as DLC is baseless.

Is he possible for the base game? No.

Is he likely for DLC? No.

Is he possible for DLC? Sure.

We have no statement that DLC characters are limited to non-assist characters. I'm not saying that it's likely, but we as a community need to stop with labeling things "impossible" when there have been no official statements to back up that claim.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Actually my uncle works at Nintendo and he confirmed to me that Waluigi will in fact be playable in smash ultimate. He will team up with Shrek in the new story mode.

Did they manage to keep Monika away or not

 

[PsySmasher]

To be completely honest, I have nothing against Waluigi. I’m not anti-Waluigi. I’m just trying to temper expectations, because some of the things be said in support of him as playable at this point are just reaching and desperate.

Yeah. I actually wouldn’t mind Waluigi being playable, even as a DLC character, but the ridiculous justifications from all of the overdramatic fans aren’t doing his chances any favors.

 

[KMDP]

That shady *****. Little Mac needs to spill the T to Isabelle.

And Isaac, and Ashley, and Shadow, and...

Roy: That dastard!
Everyone but the FE Characters: *looks at Roy, confused*
Roy: ...What?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Can we please stop thinking that there's an elaborate scheme to make Assist Trophies in Smash Ultimate playable in Smash Ultimate?

Why in the world would this team, after working hard to add all the characters they've added so far, WASTE THEIR TIME adding an Assist Trophy only to remove it later? That literally makes no sense. At all.

Waluigi is not going to be playable in Smash Ultimate. He has been confirmed as an Assist Trophy. Yes, Knuckles can appear on Green Hill Zone (which I still think is bizarre) but that's not the same thing. Knuckles does not appear twice at the same time with one being a playable appearance. In both cases, he is an NPC.

The fact that there are legitimate mental gymnastics being performed here has left a palm print on my forehead from the cringe. Pretending that Waluigi still has a shot is the equivalent of saying Bomberman has a shot or that Lyn has a shot. Yeah, there's outcry about Waluigi. However, there's literally nothing different among these characters aside from the outcry.

Here's the thing with this site being an echo chamber...certain ideas gain prevalence because everybody here has an interest in the game but might want different stuff. Some people might say Waluigi still has a chance...PROBABLY because they WANT him to still have a chance. That doesn't mean everybody that says to not count him out are diehards, but that's the problem with Smash speculation. The desire for a character often is preferred to the actuality of a situation, and if repeated enough is accepted as fact.

This typically is why there's ALWAYS salt when the games release. "My character didn't get added, I'm salty". You were never guaranteed the character, you just tried to convince yourself it was going to happen. This is exactly what happened with Ridley in Smash 4.

The idea that Waluigi has a chance is the same thing.

It's far easier to just accept what is given to you now so that you avoid disappointment later. I cannot believe we're actually having a conversation about something actually confirmed just because some people are using situations that are not only preposterous to consider, but not like others they supplement their argument with.

SIDE NOTE: With Waluigi, I've seen maybe ONE good moveset idea for him. Other ideas consist of, "give him sports attacks and party attacks".
We play as characters in Smash. We don't play as the games themselves. Those are Mario Tennis and Mario party movesets. Waluigi would deserve a Waluigi moveset.

I think they mean assist trophies that havn't been shown yet.
With Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, i find it interesting they deconfirmed him in the direct, yet he was no where to be seen in the demo.
Maybe Sakurai's leading us into another troll? I doubt it, but it'd be interesting.

 

[P.Kat]

And before I get lynched for denouncing Waluigi as playable or becoming so as DLC in Ultimate. I understand what it’s like want one certain character SO BADLY that you dread seeing them as an Assist Trophy. I’m in that boat right now, and that boat is the S. S. Isabelle.

I will be crushed if or when the day comes that she’s revealed to be an Assist Trophy again, but you know what I’m not going to do? Set myself up for disappointment that she’ll become DLC, or harass a man many miles and miles away who has devoted so much time and energy into a series he feels somewhat trapped in to bring a a game where literally everyone who has ever been playable has been brought back because it’s something fans wanted.

Smash fans are never satisfied, and it’s kind of disrespectful to the man. He gives us every veteran and Ridley, and people are angry Waluigi isn’t in instead of being thankful the man made it a priority to bring everyone back.

That’s how you create anti-“insert character here” fans. Right now, it’s the Waluigi fans.

Yeah I see your point, I sympathize with the Waluigi fans wanting DLC cause I lost two character that I wanted the most in this game to ATs Lyn and Krystal. I was crushed. So I feel for anyone who's character gets ATed but not to the point that I would justify some fans harassing Sakurai when he's working so hard to make this game for those very same fans. So even though I hope AT DLC happens, it's an idea that's on the backburner of my mind because it'll hurt less if it doesn't go through, and because in general there are better thing on the horizon to look forward to

 

[Slavic]

So what all characters have been 'promoted' to playable fighters in some way in the series' history?

I think Little Mac and Charizard are the only ones that have been promoted from Assists.

Palutena and ZSS were promoted from Final Smashes.

Sheik was promoted from a moveset.

Ridley was promoted from multiple boss appearances.

Did I miss anyone?

 

[Pacack]

I think they mean assist trophies that havn't been shown yet.
With Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, i find it interesting they deconfirmed him in the direct, yet he was no where to be seen in the demo.
Maybe Sakurai's leading us into another troll? I doubt it, but it'd be interesting.

No. He's not.

Waluigi wasn't in the demo because not every assist trophy was in the demo.

That is reaching.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

It was less "lower your expectations" and more "you're an idiot if you think it's possible for an Assist to be upgraded for DLC even though Sakurai never said such a thing was impossible."

Are you referring to me? If so, let me clarify that I never had any malice or hatred behind my comments. I may not have worded them the best way, but I have issues articulating myself sometimes.

I have nothing against Waluigi or his supporters. It’s the extremist I have something against.

I was trying to temper expectations. He’s not and will not be playable in Smash Ultimate though. I’m sorry for that, and I’m sorry if you took offense to any of my previous statements.

It just is what it is.

 

[KMDP]

I think they mean assist trophies that havn't been shown yet.
With Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, i find it interesting they deconfirmed him in the direct, yet he was no where to be seen in the demo.
Maybe Sakurai's leading us into another troll? I doubt it, but it'd be interesting.

I dunno, Sakurai's trolls are normally very short term.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It was less "lower your expectations" and more "you're an idiot if you think it's possible for an Assist to be upgraded for DLC even though Sakurai never said such a thing was impossible."

Not making this about me, but if this IS about my comment, i’d like to mention that nowhere did I say anyone was an idiot. Those are your words, my dude.

My comment was more that the probability of an Assist Trophy being worked on, THEN being removed makes no sense considering it would be a waste of time.

Just because Sakurai doesn’t say something is impossible doesn’t mean there’s reason to believe it will happen. I don’t even hate Waluigi. I simply believe the writing is on the wall, and people saying that the Assist Trophy confirmation doesn’t heavily damage his playable chances are setting themselves up for major, major disappointment.

 

[Deleted member]

She's by far the best only because the only possible ones are Tom Nook, who's already a Final Smash cameo, and Isabelle herself.

If Isabelle gets in, however, I can guarantee it won't be as a Villager Echo like I've seen some suggest because she'd need to have this body build.

Which would be so different from her own build that it would be unsettling and alienating.

I am not saying Isabelle is very likely, but she is by far the most likely newcomer as you said.
Isabelle does not have to posses the same build as Villager at all to be an echo fighter.
In fact Isabelle is more than a Villager clone.

 

[Louie G.]

Which would be so different from her own build that it would be unsettling and alienating.

I've been thinking about this too, people are throwing the idea of Isabelle as an echo around but her body type is different than that of Villager. Sure she could share some moves, but minimally she would be a semi-clone and at best she would be an original character.

That begs the question though, since it took Sakurai a while to make just one Animal Crossing character playable, what would be the chances of adding a brand new character with an original moveset? I'd say Isabelle's chances are 50/50, her role as an AT fits her just fine but she's practically the mascot of Animal Crossing at this rate, one of the most prominent recent Nintendo icons next to Inkling. So I do hope that the effort is made to give her an original moveset (at least partially unique) since AC is huge and Isabelle is a crazy popular character, maybe not in the context of Smash but if we're looking at some of the most iconic characters not yet playable she's one of them.

But yeah, Isabelle echo makes less and less sense to me by the day.

 

[Pacack]

I was trying to temper expectations. He’s not and will not be playable in Smash Ultimate though.

We can only say this with certainty in regard to the base game.

We do not know if assist trophies can be promoted through DLC, and we shouldn't make absolutist statements indicating that we know for sure.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think they mean assist trophies that havn't been shown yet.
With Waluigi as an Assist Trophy, i find it interesting they deconfirmed him in the direct, yet he was no where to be seen in the demo.
Maybe Sakurai's leading us into another troll? I doubt it, but it'd be interesting.

I’ll counter this with a more ridiculous claim that goes by the same logic.

If they showed all the playable characters, the Meta Ridley costume, and many other things that weren’t in the demo, does that mean they aren’t going to be in the game the way they were revealed? Of course not.

It’s not impossible. It’s just ignoring a ton of context that we were literally just shown a few weeks ago that literally says, “Waluigi is an Assist Trophy”. People are taking things that really probably don’t mean anything and applying meaning that really has no contextual backing.