Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Elaborating on this a little, her neutral game was probably supposed to be a lot worse than it ended up being. Back air was far too strong an option for spacing and whatnot, and down tilt initially had stupid levels of reach.

Make her run slower (seriously, she's not a fast runner in-game until you get Panther Within.) Make her moves harder to hit unless you're on top of an opponent. Give grounded Witch Twist the windup that it has in-game so it can't be used without risk. Give her more 50/50 options like Sheik instead of confirms. Make her neutral lackluster to make up for having such a good combo game.

As someone who's played both game, I think this would be a great way to handle her.

Makes her less of a ridiculous character while also being a more accurate portrayal of how her games are played.

 

[Wyoming]

While I don't feel franchises deserve representation, persay, I do think that every Smash should include at least 3 franchises that haven't yet been represented in Smash's history. So far in Ultimate we've got Splatoon so by my personal criteria (And as someone who enjoys seeing different franchises) there are two more. I'd say Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven take it for me.

Golden Sun's original two games were some of the best selling games on the GBA with the original breaking 1 Million sales, plus with Isaac having had representation in Brawl, it's not like we're just adding a franchise out of nowhere.

Rhythm Heaven is weird because I hold no personal attachment to the franchise, but I know just how big and popular it is. I'd love to see the Chorus Kids as they're some of the more memorable characters from the franchise, as well as some of the few I've actually played.

Spitballin' here, but I remember Sakurai saying it was the biggest crossover in gaming history once for Smash 4, but cannot recall if that was after Bayonetta or when the game launched. I wonder if the series they showed will be the only series represented in the base roster, since he mentioned that fact during E3?

Probably not, but hey what IF...

 

[KMDP]

ARMS is the most relevant, but also came nearly two years after the project plan for Ultimate was done.

I think that's way too late for base game, but I'd say an ARMS character is practically a guarantee for DLC.

Speaking ooooof.... I'm not really well versed in ARMS (not having a Switch, and generally not being interested in the first place), but who would you guys have as the Representative of ARMS, if you could have literally anyone from the game and not just Spring Man?

 

[Deleted member]

Bayonetta is not attractive at all, so I could care less if she gets new costumes.

Asuka from Senran Kagura

OH YES NOW WE ARE TALKING.

ARMS is the most relevant, but also came nearly two years after the project plan for Ultimate was done.

I think that's way too late for base game, but I'd say an ARMS character is practically a guarantee for DLC.

This post is very correct. If we do not get him as a newcomer, we will very likely get him as a DLC.
We still have a small chance of getting him as a newcomer, but that is debetable. Think about Greninja in Smash 4. Barely any information besides sketches was made about him. Sakurai was deciding the roster when Spring Man was in his beta stages I think. If he is not a newcomer, than very likely DLC. If we are getting an ARMS character, it is Spring Man for sure.

Like Opossum said, he is the Ryu of Street Fighter.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

To be fair, it is a little annoying when you pour your heart and soul into trying to main a low-tier character or a character with a high learning curve, and then someone comes along with Bayo, picks her up in a day, and is basically "LOL ladder combos and Witch Time".

It's fine if you want main a character with a low learning curve, but that character shouldn't have so many strengths that their moveset basically becomes a "low risk, high reward".

I'm a Kirby main, and luckily i havn't come across many bayo mains.
The ones i have come across, well...Fighting them feels like a punch to the gut tbh.

 

[Pacack]

As someone who's played both game, I think this would be a great way to handle her.

Makes her less of a ridiculous character while also being a more accurate portrayal of how her games are played.

Yeah, if you try to play Bayonetta in her own game like you play Bayonetta in Smash, you'll get beaten into the ground.

Throwing moves out recklessly in her home games is stupid. You have to attack intelligently. But that's how she plays in Smash - recklessly.

I shouldn't be able to autopilot while playing Bayonetta.

 

[SonicMario]

Tails as sonic echo or semi-echo

Tails as an echo would make even less sense then when a long while ago there was those defending Shadow. There's reasonable possibilities for Shadow to be an echo because of similar height and body structure. But Tails is shorter then Sonic, and it would cost him the ability to fly which is basically his signature trait (Plays like Sonic in the classic games, with the added ability of limited flight). I don't think they're going to make a semi-echo class. Since by definition that would mean they're not an echo.

 

[osby]

Here's hoping we get 1 or 2 sakurai picks in a roster of highly requested characters.

Literally all characters are Sakurai picks.

 

[MainJPW]

Tails as an echo would make even less sense then when a long while ago there was those defending Shadow. There's reasonable possibilities for Shadow to be an echo because of similar height and body structure. But Tails is shorter than Sonic, and it would cost him the ability to fly which is basically his signature trait (Plays like Sonic in the classic games, with the added ability of limited flight). I don't think they're going to make a semi-echo class. Since by definition that would mean they're not an echo.

Tails physically can't use Sonic's up-throw either.

 

[KMDP]

OH YES NOW WE ARE TALKING.

I would, no joke, unironically appreciate Asuka in Smash Bros., just for the hilarity of it. XD She did get her start on the 3DS, after all.
Maybe Marvelous' Booby Ninja is character we're sleeping on. (No! No giggity! Okay, maybe a little...)

 

[Metal Shop X]

That’s understandable. My mains are Mewtwo, Samus, and Mr. Game & Watch. If I’m not mistaken, Game & Watch isn’t considered high tier. I’ve beaten plenty of Bayonetta’s with him. That’s what I’m trying to get at.

Do I think Bayonetta shouldn’t be nerfed? Absolutely not, she should, but not to the point of basically being useless and having no kill potential i.e. Meta Knight from Brawl to Smash 4.

I can understand the frustration with Bayonetta, but not the hate, and trying to disprove her Ballot win.

I hate fighting Robin. Robin is the bane of my existence in Smash. I have such a hard time beating Robin mains. I think we’ve all got our characters.

When it come to MK, you are talking pre-patch MK right?

Because MK right now is quit good, he isn't Brawl god tier, but he certainly isn't useless.

Beside that, I agree Bayo should be nerf, but not nerfed to the point that she is missing limbs.

Everyone, whatever you like the character or not, should be atleast decent and fun. Making a roster perfectly balanced is impossible, some characters will always be better than others, heck, even Thanos couldn't make a blanced roster even with the infinity gauntlet, they are character design that will just rekt some characters.

What Sakurai, or any fighting game dev for that matter should try to accomplish, is to make every fighters, high, mid or low, atleast fun to play. This is possible, look at , all around, he is a bad character at high level, but alot of peoples still play him because of how fun he is at casual play.

If Bayo could be nerf so that she wouldn't be a monster to fight, but still be fun to play, I think everyone would win. And I know it ain't easy, but that's what I hope Sakurai try to do with her & Cloud.

 

[Opossum]

I.

Also I'll sneak this in here because it doesn't necessarily have to do with Smash Ultimate, but enjoy a Fire Emblem "leak." It's a nice change of pace from the Smash "leaks" I see every day.

Spoiler: "Leak"

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422851098/#422851098
Besides from Three Houses which will be released in 2019, a couple more Fire Emblem games are in development.

Fire Emblem Warriors Legends is being made. It just a physical release of the game with the DLC. Though, it does feature Roy, Hector, Ike, Black Knight, Sigurd, Lief, Alm, Lukas, Felicia, Darios and the villains as playable characters and features more History Mode Maps and will feature more DLC down the path. If you already have the game, you can update to Legends for free.

A fighting game is being made by Arc System Works. It will be a 2 on 2. At least one character from each main series game will be included. The only characters I know that are playable are the Smash Bros bunch of Fire Emblem characters and Chrom. Though, I have heard about Hector and Lyn as well.

The Next Legendary Hero will be Chrom. He will be a old version of him self and will be called Old King: Chrom. He will have a beard and will be a Red Sword Unit.

Not really Fire Emblem, but Project X Zone 3 is being developed. Chrom and Marth are a Pair Unit. Most people from Project X Zone 1 and 2 will return and will feature more characters from Nintendo and will feature characters from Square Enix as well.

A free update to Legends would be painful because I traded in Fire Emblem Warriors for Splatoon 2 because I thought I'd S-Ranked all the missions in both the main game and DLC and thought that the game would get no new content. I also forgot to claim the My Nintendo Gold Points for the game, which also hurt. (¢60 is important to me okay).

Man I love everything about that leak, even if it's probably fake. At least we'll know if it's fake in a month at most. Though on a personal level I'd hope for a few more of my own favorites as Warriors Legends DLC, especially from Shadow Dragon. Merric was robbed.


To make this even tangentially related to Smash, give me a Merric Assist Trophy, Sakurai.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Speaking ooooof.... I'm not really well versed in ARMS (not having a Switch, and generally not being interested in the first place), but who would you guys have as the Representative of ARMS, if you could have literally anyone from the game and not just Spring Man?

Min Min.

She'd have a more creative moveset due to being someone with kicks as the primary gimmick (compared to Spring Man being a boxer and thus, only punches) and the permacharge on her left arm could make for some interesting plays.

She also seems to be the kind of character who would be fast and agile, potentially compensating for how slow her arms could be.

We still have a small chance of getting him as a newcomer, but that is debetable. Think about Greninja in Smash 4. Barely any information besides sketches was made about him.

Yeah, but we don't know when ARMS started being worked on, nor do we know when it was far enough to have character concept arts, so the chances of a Greninja situation are... unknown.

If we are getting an ARMS character, it is Spring Man for sure.

Like Opossum said, he is the Ryu of Street Fighter.

That's what I'd say for base game.

But for DLC, having the basic Spring Man might not be the best. Especially since ARMS doesn't have much lore while Street Fighter has a tendency of giving Ryu some plot armor. SFV being the biggest offender since Ryu's MIA for most of the plot, then saves everyone's ass at the last second.

They could bring a popular pick like Min Min or someone who has actual lore like Dr. Coyle. They don't have to be forced to pick the "Ryu" for DLC.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Characters don't get in based on when their games started development, they never have. XB2's starting development is completely irrelevant to Smash. It's release date and even reveal date on the other hand are away after development started.

Ehhh, I do think characters like Creninja and Corrin were time and place.

We know for Greninja this was trhe

But the thing is she appears to have been planned and started development before the Ballot even launched, thus her stated results in the Ballot and it influencing her being chosen was a cover story for the actual context of her inclusion while the real intention of the Ballot (being used to decide characters for the next Smash game) was hidden.



I will copy paste this again:

ehh i’m not convinced it was a scam or something but I can see them using it to help them limit down choices that had preplanned.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I'm very mad about Waluigi still being an assist trophy. He was going to be my main :/ I still think there might be a chance tho because the game isn't out yet. If they made him DLC it would be a good marketing decision because EVERYONE wants him. They would get tons of money from that.

He’s already an Assist Trophy. He can’t be an Assist Trophy and playable in the same game.

 

[monadoboy]

The amount of detail on the King.K.Rool costume is definitly suspicious. Like, there is way too much effort into it to just be that alone.

Or they just wanted to sell a good product. The Mii costume didn't work out for Takamaru and Knuckles so I'd be wary of putting too much faith into them.

 

[Pacack]

To make this even tangentially related to Smash, give me a Merric Assist Trophy, Sakurai.

But consider...

Einherjar as a Pokeball-style item to summon Fire Emblem characters.

yes i know Lyn disconfirmed this idea, but let me dream

 

[MainJPW]

Or they just wanted to sell a good product. The Mii costume didn't work out for Takamaru and Knuckles so I'd be wary of putting too much faith into them.

K. Rool's costume isn't made with existing assets like Takamaru's and Knuckles' costumes. K. Rool already had a trophy that used his Paon design, his Mii costume uses his Rare design and new textures. That's a new design and new assets.

 

[Opossum]

He’s already an Assist Trophy. He can’t be an Assist Trophy and playable in the same game.

I'm not saying it's likely, but the thought that removing an Assist Trophy when you release a character as DLC is "impossible" is pretty close-minded when nothing has been said officially on the subject.

Hypothetically if Waluigi was a DLC character he'd come with a patch that would remove the Waluigi Assist. Or he can just keep it, since Knuckles can be summoned while on Green Hill.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Or they just wanted to sell a good product. The Mii costume didn't work out for Takamaru and Knuckles so I'd be wary of putting too much faith into them.

Oh don't worry, I'm always on my guard on those kind of things.

Still, I feel like the next character that will be revealed will bring us some light as to what we can expect. Even if King. K Mii Costume mean nothing in the long run, nothing right now can tell if here is more to it or not.

 

[P.Kat]

Here’s another question: the page is currently at 2098. So let’s say it’s the Year 2098. A new century is coming. Where is Smash and what does it look like?

Smash is now a virtual reality, open world, MMORPG game. With Sakurai's overwhelming passion for Smash yet deteriorating body, he downloaded his brain and consciousness into the virtual world. Some say he's the Master Hand who's yet to be defeated.

With a nearly endless world that keeps expanding with updates, players enter the world via headset or glasses. There are over 2,000 characters but you start of as a highly, aesthetically, updated Mii Fighter. You choose between 4 classes: Brawler, Swordfighter, Gunner, and Sorcerer. You can stay as that class, switch Mii classes, or you can venture out into the world of Smashia and find your favorite video game character and convince them to let you train underneath them to learn their moveset and specials.

You could have more than one master teach you and mix and match moveset and specials to prepare you for big tournaments. You can take the form, or wear the clothing of the master who teaches you, or keep your appearance, and still use the moveset and abilities you learn from them.
Why play as Ridley when you can become him? Fly, burn everyone and cause chaos Grab your, friend, family, or lover, and train together to be the best in sync Ice Climbers ever. The possibilities are endless.

Okaaaaaay got a bit carried away there

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Bayonetta is not attractive at all, so I could care less if she gets new costumes.

OH YES NOW WE ARE TALKING.

This post is very correct. If we do not get him as a newcomer, we will very likely get him as a DLC.
We still have a small chance of getting him as a newcomer, but that is debetable. Think about Greninja in Smash 4. Barely any information besides sketches was made about him. Sakurai was deciding the roster when Spring Man was in his beta stages I think. If he is not a newcomer, than very likely DLC. If we are getting an ARMS character, it is Spring Man for sure.

Like Opossum said, he is the Ryu of Street Fighter.

He's also pretty much the best choice as far as ARMS is concerned, so that's a good thing.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm not saying it's likely, but the thought that removing an Assist Trophy when you release a character as DLC is "impossible" is pretty close-minded when nothing has been said officially on the subject.

Hypothetically if Waluigi was a DLC character he'd come with a patch that would remove the Waluigi Assist. Or he can just keep it, since Knuckles can be summoned while on Green Hill.

Perhaps playable Waluigi could wear his tennis outfit to make him visually distinct from the Assist Trophy?

 

[KMDP]

To make this even tangentially related to Smash, give me a Merric Assist Trophy, Sakurai.

Fire Emblem Assist Trophies, two for each character!
Marth

Caeda - Combat Assist, Flies around the stage and periodically attacks random players; she flies fast, making her hard to hit.​

Merrick - Casts Excalibur, works very similarly to Brawl's Isaac AT, but also deals damage.​

Roy

Lyn - ...You know.​

Zephiel - Combat Assist, walks around the stage, occasionally attacking with Eckesachs. The attacks stun those hit.​

Ike

Titania - Combat Assist, works a lot like Caeda, only she rides a horse instead of a Pegasus, to compensate for the fact that she is slower and grounded, she hits a lot harder.​

Black Knight - Combat Assist, a lot like Zephiel, but uses Eclipse to attack. If Eclipse hits you while you are guarding, your shield is immediately broken.​

Robin/Lucina

Tharja - Combat Assist, attacks players with Nosferatu, then returns to you and heals you with whatever she stole from the others before leaving.​

Frederick - Yells "Pick a God and Pray!" and attacks a random opponent, this opponent is attacked with a force equivalent to Warlock Punch.​

Corrin

Azura - Dances where she is summoned, if you are standing by her when she finishes her dance, your attack power is doubled. She cannot be KO'd.​

Elise and Sakura - Instantly heal all of your damage, if you already had 0% they give a free stock/extra point instead.​

 

[Wyoming]

It's been three weeks fellas, Waluigi isn't coming in the foreseeable future.

And that's allll that matteeeeers

 

[Zerp]

That’s understandable. My mains are Mewtwo, Samus, and Mr. Game & Watch. If I’m not mistaken, Game & Watch isn’t considered high tier. I’ve beaten plenty of Bayonetta’s with him. That’s what I’m trying to get at.

Do I think Bayonetta shouldn’t be nerfed? Absolutely not, she should, but not to the point of basically being useless and having no kill potential i.e. Meta Knight from Brawl to Smash 4.

As someone who used to secondary Meta Knight, I still think launch Meta Knight was never anywhere near as bad as people made him out to be, people focus so much on what they lost that they don't even begin to look at what they still had, which included but was not limited to: The best combo starter in the form of dash attack, easy ladder combos in the form of U-air strings (even back before 1.0.4 when the range was increased on U-air it was do-able), amazing edge guarding game and still a pretty great neutral even with the reduced range on some attacks from current Smash 4 and greater end-lag. Really, I can't see how that version of the character was supposedly trash tier, especially when this was when stuff like pre-patch Zelda, Ganondorf and Charizard existed, our standards for low and bottom tiers were waaaaaay lower and weaker back then, if we all went back and played launch 3DS (or even launch Wii-U), Jigglypuff wouldn't even be in the running for worst character, that's how bad some of these characters were, I think he was more underrated than he was actually that bad.

 

[KMDP]

He’s already an Assist Trophy. He can’t be an Assist Trophy and playable in the same game.

Because, you know, you can't just change the Assist Trophy Appearance Likelihood to 0 or anything. No, that would be silly.

Disclaimer: I don't really want Waluigi either (I want Lyn), but the "He's an Assist Trophy" is kind of a bad argument.

 

[ToddCam]

Zephiel - Combat Assist, walks around the stage, occasionally attacking with Eckesachs. The attacks stun those hit.​

Zephiel should be unable to attack Corrin, Charizard, or Ridley.

 

[MysticKnives]

Speaking ooooof.... I'm not really well versed in ARMS (not having a Switch, and generally not being interested in the first place), but who would you guys have as the Representative of ARMS, if you could have literally anyone from the game and not just Spring Man?

MY favorite is Twintelle. Dr. Coyle is my second favorite, and Spring Man rounds out top 3. I’d love Twintelle getting in, but if ARMS were to ever only get 2 reps, I think Spring Man and Dr. Coyle best represent the series. Either way, I want the music the game has. It’s music is so good.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

My favorites are Ribbon Girl, Lola Pop and Dr. Coyle.

Idol singer I could actually get into, Clown that's actually fun and Mad Scientists who dedicated her life and craft to the art of Punching things. What's not to love?

 

[MysticKnives]

My favorites are Ribbon Girl, Lola Pop and Dr. Coyle.

Idol singer I could actually get into, Clown that's actually fun and Mad Scientists who dedicated her life and craft to the art of Punching things. What's not to love?

Lola is definitely underrated. Love the girl.

 

[Pakky]

Given the nature of things Chun Li might be coming use her NEW model... which makes more sense for both women.

assets already exist

 

[BluePikmin11]

There is this deep sinking feeling that Sakurai might have added Isabelle and K.K. Slider in Ultimate's roster the more I think about his DLC Mii Costume in Smash 4. Sakurai might have thought the utilization of his guitar might make for a more interesting moveset at the time of project planning for Ultimate.

The thought internally upsets me as someone who wanted Tom Nook for a long time, but I cannot stop thinking about it. How do you feel about K.K. Slider's chances?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Mad Scientists who dedicated her life and craft to the art of Punching things.

Best description of Dr. Coyle ever.

Also, Hedlok Final Smash would be neat.

 

[DGAMER]

Min Min is the best choice for an ARMS newcomer. They aren't too incredibly restricted and can include punches, kicks, and dragon laser beams.

But who am I kidding, if there ever is an ARMS newcomer it will be springman.

 

[MysticKnives]

I’d love Chun Li. Most best athletic legs. Give me a Power Stone character as well where they get an aerial grab just like in their own game. One of the characters air grabs is a seismic toss lol

 

[KMDP]

There is this deep sinking feeling that Sakurai might have added Isabelle and K.K. Slider in Ultimate's roster the more I think about his DLC Mii Costume in Smash 4. Sakurai might have thought the utilization of his guitar might make for a more interesting moveset at the time of project planning for Ultimate.

The thought internally upsets me as someone who wanted Tom Nook for a long time, but I cannot stop thinking about it. How do you feel about K.K. Slider's chances?

I... can't really see it? Unless he attacks with the guitar and makes hilarious "kwang" noises when he hits you... No, NO, I SAY. AWAY FOUL DEMON!

 

[osby]

Min Min is the best choice for an ARMS newcomer. They aren't too incredibly restricted and can include punches, kicks, and dragon laser beams.

But who am I kidding, if there ever is an ARMS newcomer it will be springman.

I hope it will be Spring Man, he's cute.

 

[MysticKnives]

Why stop at a playable character? Make Valgas a boss character in a single player mode too and give him that eldritch abomination transformation he has after being defeated. It’s crazy to me just how well Smash and Power Stone could mesh together. Playing these games for years and it took me this lon to realize it.

 

[P.Kat]

Speaking ooooof.... I'm not really well versed in ARMS (not having a Switch, and generally not being interested in the first place), but who would you guys have as the Representative of ARMS, if you could have literally anyone from the game and not just Spring Man?

Min-Min I love how she uses her kicks to deflect attacks, and her martial arts in general.