Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[papagenos]

This right here, even though it's a smaller poll, shows why I think the marketing for Ultimate is "Everyone is here". People wanted all the vets back, and then there's Inklings who were the very first thing revealed for Ultimate.

I agree, getting all the vets back IS the most BALLOT thing sakurai has done.

 

[vaanrose]

I'm usually pretty off-topic, but with everyone talking about the ballot stuff, I got really excited and had to pull up this old thing:

And this was in JAPAN. If Sakurai said that he was put in because of his popularity in the West, I can't even imagine what we're about to see over the next few months. With all cut fighters returning, let's look at the remaining characters on here:

> The elephant in the room is K.Rool. He tops the graph here, and like many people have been saying, if he's not in the game at all at this point, it'll be a huge surprise.
> Bandanna Dee. I was never a huge fan of him, but it'll be nice to see the Kirby fighters padded up to a complete set of 4. He'll probably get in over Mag, though (or maybe Mag will make it in as an AT).
> Inkling is already in. She isn't the most popular fighter here, but it makes sense why she was revealed first. If K.Rool is your most requested fighter here, why reveal him first? Sakurai is actually in a really good position here: by revealing Ridley first, he got people extremely hyped for the game, but he still has another ace up his sleeve to get people back to maximum hype before release.
> Geno. With Magolor and all the returning fighters taken off the graph, we have Geno to make for the perfect sixth newcomer. Yay! <3
> Banjo-Kazooie. Probably better suited for DLC, but definitely the beginning of the "maybe, maybe not" territory.

This was just DustIn browsing 2ch and other sites and manually counting how often he saw a character get mentioned, lol.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

>Banadana Dee playable but Magolor as an AT


No

 

[DarkFalcon]

This isn't the case though, 1.0.6's data would have been done quite a bit before it actually released (it was probably older than the two weeks at that point), then the process of deciding Bayo, getting her licensing finished, and starting development on would be very doubtful to have occurred within two weeks. Then combine that with how 1.0.6's data was older than its actual release data, and it's just completely infeasible for Bayo to have been chosen off of very initial Ballot results.

I know nothing of programming so I'll take your word for it, but apparently this was known a couple years back so why is it being brought up again like it's new info?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

are we still discussing nintendo (possibly) lying?

first off, this shouldn't be a surprise. as much as we all love nintendo, nintendo is like every other big company out there more than everyone here (myself included) wishes. they're a company. what do you expect? try being a mario RPG fan. we've been dealing with stretching's of truth since 2012.

beyond that,
mewtwo - was supposed to be put in anyways
lucas - iirc, same thing as mewtwo, just a debate on which one was DLC (remember, the wii U was selling poorly. desperation was high)
roy - requests
ryu - they already got in with capcom for mega man so
cloud - do you know how stupidly requested "Square enix" character is? and how much Sakurai has tried to get Geno in? (and potentially saved him for this game). if we didn't have Cloud, I assure you, Square Enix Character (Cloud, Geno, Final Fantasy character placeholder, Sora, etc) would overall be one of the most requested things. it's one of those things people have asked for even since the Melee days.

really anyone who doesn't needs to get out of their bubble
corrin - advertisement marketing advertisement marketing advertisement marketing
bayonetta - nintendo is basically platinum games' donor for Bayo; it was a smart business move. hell, if they can, they might as well just buy platinum (or at least a share). they have a share in cygames of all things.

and,
when they said "realizable characters" I quickly realized they'd go for something more hype and save characters like Wolf and Ridley for Smash Ult so I'm not really shocked. Now that we know about how Ultimate was developed, it makes the "realizable characters" part less shocking. why put in wolf if wolf was already going to be in ulti anyways? like, by 2015, it looks like the "abandon ship" thing was pretty clear

finally
ya'll might as well wait for sourcegaming and other sources to clear the air on this

Spoiler

smashboards' writing team is already investigating

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Westerners voted in the poll.
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

Are you sure you are looking at the right poll?
The quote you posted says krystal was in 1st with over 400 votes.

However, reading the results of the chart Wambo posted, Krystal is much much lower and only got 38 votes.

 

[Captain Fun]

This was just DustIn browsing 2ch and other sites and manually counting how often he saw a character get mentioned, lol.

Yeah, it's hardly concrete data.

Hell, even Smashboards only represents a small portion of the fanbase.

 

[DarkFalcon]

If I remember right, that was just Source Gaming asking people in Japan who they voted for, and not an accurate representation of the actual poll results. I mean, it's probably accurate enough, but I'm just sayin' certain characters were probably higher or lower than what this chart shows.

I think it'd explain Krystal getting acknowledged as an Assist Trophy.

 

[BluePikmin11]

As a hardcore supporter of Bayonetta back in the Smash 4 DLC days, I think that it is awesome that Bayonetta was planned before the ballot began. Given what Sakurai had said about the Bayonetta games in older Famitsu columns, the close relationship with Platinum Games, and the endless moveset potential she provided, she is a choice that would be extremely hard to avoid for Sakurai at the time of deciding characters for Smash 4 DLC.

If Sakurai had a priority list on who to add as the last Smash 4 "ballot" DLC character, assuming they fair well in the ballot, Bayonetta would have been #1 priority I feel.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I know nothing of programming so I'll take your word for it, but apparently this was known a couple years back so why is it being brought up again like it's new info?

The Mario slots having stats wasn't known at the time and was discovered after the fact, a lot of the datamine stuff was a process to figure out (like stats weren't known how to find for a long time, for example Dedede's air speed nerf was discovered after the fact, and landing lag wasn't known how to be found in the data for nearly the entirety of Smash 4's active patching period, meaning landing lag changes had to be found by manually recording everyone and counting the frames of their landing lag)

 

[NeonBurrito]

For reference again, here is the leak that predicted the ballot being rigged for Bayonetta. I've quoted it this time:

My thoughts on the characters/assist trophies

Anybody else want to take a try at this one?

Fighters

• Whip: Simon Belmont (Simon uses a whip to fight, the whip is Castlevania's most iconic weapon, and Simon is without a doubt the most iconic Castlevania character.)
• Pic related: Dark Matter (The image of the 4chan OP is Blackbeard from GeGeGe no Kitarō, a large black mass with a single eye, just like Dark Matter.)
• Witch: Ashley (Ashley is a witch. Pretty simple one.)
• Sliced Apple: Bandana Waddle Dee (Waddle Dees are heavily based on sliced apples, with a reddish-orange exterior and a tannish-front. Alongside that, Bandana Waddle Dee, has a history of being associated with apples, such as with the Gem Apple Tree in Team Kirby Clash Deluxe, and the Apple Juice Song, sung by Bandana Waddle Dee himself.)
• Anime: Fire Emblem Newcomer / Xenoblade Newcomer (too vague to be anything in particular, but both series are often called anime-esqe. Ex: "Get these anime swordfighters out of my Smash game!")
• Archer: Decidueye (The archer Pokemon. Again, another fairly simple choice.)
• House: Chibi-Robo (The crafty little assistant of the Sanderson Household. This one is a bit of a stretch, but its the only thing I could think of, aside from the Tomodachi series, which is already represented by Miis.)
• Science: Dr. Eggman (Only thing I could come up with. He's the only guy I could think of when it came to science. Unless we're getting E. Gadd.)
• Card: Hanafuda Character / Paper Mario (Before video games were ever a thought, Nintendo was making Hanafuda cards. However, Paper Mario also makes use of a card-based fighting system in Paper Mario Color Splash. It could be either.)

Echoes

• Prime: Dark Samus [] (Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. Prime and Echoes in the same title together. In the game Dark Samus was the main antagonist of. Also, no Assist Trophy and no Samus color swap anymore.)
• Edgy: Shadow [] (Heavily associated with being edgy. Also, his Assist Trophy is missing.)
• Dog: Isabelle [] (She is a dog. She's also pretty popular.)
• Asthma: Ninten [] (Poor kid has asthma.)
• Blue Hair: Chrom [] (He's got blue hair, and Sakurai already poked fun at him in the Palutena's Guidences for being "too similar to Ike". Also, Robin's Final Smash hasn't been seen yet.)

Assist Trophies

• Lego: Steve / Creeper (LEGO and Minecraft are often compared to one another.)
• Merchant Egg: Magolor (Merchant character in Team Kirby Clash Deluxe. Often jokingly referred to as an egg.)
• Octopus: Octolings / DJ Octavio (They're octopi.)
• Divine: Viridi (Divine Goddess of Nature in Kid Icarus Uprising.)
• Dad: Duster (Lucas' father. Currently, he's the only main party member from both Earthbound and MOTHER 3 to not be in Ultimate.)
• Pig: Pigma / Porky (Both characters heavily associated with pigs. Pigma is a pig, and Porky being the commander of the Pork Troopers in MOTHER 3.)

 

[Deleted member]

King K. Rool and Bandanaa Dee look the most guaranteed newcomers to me.
Sakurai wants to bring up the hype in this game even more than Smash 4, so those two are very likely now.

>Banadana Dee playable but Magolor as an AT

View attachment 151209
No

Oh yes.
Bandanna Dee deserves to be a fighter much more than that pest Magalor.

 

[Zerp]

"...I think Sakurai most likely puts characters in that he really likes, so he must have really liked Bayonetta." -Atsushi Inaba
He says he didn't have the discussion with Sakurai but I find it really hard to believe he didn't know about the ballot, between this, that ZSS congratulations screen and the evidence that Bayonetta was planned early on as DLC, I feel a implication here. It might not even have had anything to do with the ballot as crazy as that sounds.

There's no hard evidence to say that Sakurai and his team 'cheated' lol.

Misdirection and cheating are practically the same thing to me, probably should have worded that better because it technically isn't cheating or waht-not, I'm not saying he voted for her ten quadrillion times (although that would be hilarious enough to the point where I can't even get internally angry about it), what's wrong with it is that she was explicity stated to be the number one voted among "realizable" characters, and while some of us guessed what it mean't, none of us could have known that, it's misleading, that's what I'm upset about.

If what I'm reading is right, Bayo's data was added 2 weeks after the ballot started. What I'm taking away is Bayo had a lot of votes early on and Sakurai picked her, even if she wasn't the most requested everywhere. So most of the ballot was there to gain data while only the first weeks of it actually decided a fighter. Doesn't really seem like anything to be upset about to me. I mean it's not like they picked a character that had no fanbase. People really did want Bayonetta, and if the real ballot winner was someone like K. Rool and he makes it in this game I don't see what the fuss is about.

I'd want them to at least announce King K. Rool as one of the formerly unrealizable ballot characters if that happened, if they were more transparent I wouldn't have a problem with it. The current lack of transparency and misdirection bothers me though.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I've never been a Kirby guy so I never felt the love for Bandanna Dee.

 

[Deleted member]

I've never been a Kirby guy so I never felt the love for Bandanna Dee.

Bandanna Dee is a cinnamon roll, so you will love him if you get to know him.

I have been a Kirby guy for a while.

As a hardcore supporter of Bayonetta back in the Smash 4 DLC days, I think that it is awesome that Bayonetta was planned before the ballot began. Given what Sakurai had said about the Bayonetta games in older Famitsu columns, the close relationship with Platinum Games, and the endless moveset potential she provided, she is a choice that would be extremely hard to avoid for Sakurai at the time of deciding characters for Smash 4 DLC.

I do not want Bayonetta to go. I mean she is a very unique fighter and making her go would not feel like Ultimate to me.
I am glad she is in Ultimate.

 

[Jetsurge]

>Banadana Dee playable but Magolor as an AT

View attachment 151209
No

Sounds perfect to me

 

[papagenos]

I know nothing of programming so I'll take your word for it, but apparently this was known a couple years back so why is it being brought up again like it's new info?

I have the same question. This is the first I'm hearing about this, and I remember a lot of discussion about "realizable" character and Corrin being more of a promotional character than one fans asked for etc... Why is this just coming out now that there is actual factual Data proving it, if that data was found years ago? I sorta fell into this discussion so i don't know what sparked it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I have the same question. This is the first I'm hearing about this, and I remember a lot of discussion about "realizable" character and Corrin being more of a promotional character than one fans asked for etc... Why is this just coming out now that there is actual factual Data proving it, if that data was found years ago? I sorta fell into this discussion so i don't know what sparked it.

Data originates from years ago, but was just found now.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I have the same question. This is the first I'm hearing about this, and I remember a lot of discussion about "realizable" character and Corrin being more of a promotional character than one fans asked for etc... Why is this just coming out now that there is actual factual Data proving it, if that data was found years ago? I sorta fell into this discussion so i don't know what sparked it.

The Mario slots having stats wasn't known at the time and was discovered after the fact, a lot of the datamine stuff was a process to figure out (like stats weren't known how to find for a long time, for example Dedede's air speed nerf was discovered after the fact, and landing lag wasn't known how to be found in the data for nearly the entirety of Smash 4's active patching period, meaning landing lag changes had to be found by manually recording everyone and counting the frames of their landing lag)

 

[Wambo]

I think the important thing to mention right now is that Sakurai said "I hope you don't expect too many newcomers", not meaning "expect one or two newcomers" (although someone should get confirmation of what he said in the Japanese stream). The fact that he said "too many" means to me that we should probably expect half of Smash 4's newcomers (21), and it's not too far out of the question to believe that we'll be getting the popular ballot choices as said newcomers.

I think since this game was supposedly built off of Smash 4, adding the returning fighters probably took the time it would've taken to add half of the ballot newcomers. Sakurai said that the Mii costumes were added so fans would at least feel they got something (this was because the most popular ballot choices were saved for the next game. This makes sense, as having all the popular characters saved for the next game would help sell both it and the console its on), and this was also to let fans know that the devs were paying close attention to the ballot, even if those fighters weren't added at the time.

I guess what I'm saying is, EVERYONE IS HERE, bois.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Going off the topic of ballot stuff....I can't be the only one who thinks Bowser looks fantastic in Ultimate. A lot of characters do but Bowser's darker tone with his scales looks so good.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

And this was in JAPAN.

I like how the Inklings were higher than Snake

Edgy: Shadow [] (Heavily associated with being edgy. Also, his Assist Trophy is missing.)
Dog: Isabelle [] (She is a dog. She's also pretty popular.)
Blue Hair: Chrom [] (He's got blue hair, and Sakurai already poked fun at him in the Palutena's Guidences for being "too similar to Ike". Also, Robin's Final Smash hasn't been seen yet.)
Divine: Viridi (Divine Goddess of Nature in Kid Icarus Uprising.)

Shadow and Isabelle I can get down with, but Imma need a playable Viridi in Smash...also Chrom can do whatever as long as he still gets roasted

 

[Wambo]

>Banadana Dee playable but Magolor as an AT

View attachment 151209
No

Off-topic for a second; That pic looks familiar. Urusei Yatsura?

 

[Zinith]

I like Yoshi's new idle animation and his grab, oh that glorious grab animation...

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

are we still discussing nintendo (possibly) lying?

first off, this shouldn't be a surprise. as much as we all love nintendo, nintendo is like every other big company out there more than everyone here (myself included) wishes. they're a company. what do you expect? try being a mario RPG fan. we've been dealing with stretching's of truth since 2012.

beyond that,
mewtwo - was supposed to be put in anyways
lucas - iirc, same thing as mewtwo, just a debate on which one was DLC (remember, the wii U was selling poorly. desperation was high)
roy - requests
ryu - they already got in with capcom for mega man so
cloud - do you know how stupidly requested "Square enix" character is? and how much Sakurai has tried to get Geno in? (and potentially saved him for this game). if we didn't have Cloud, I assure you, Square Enix Character (Cloud, Geno, Final Fantasy character placeholder, Sora, etc) would overall be one of the most requested things. it's one of those things people have asked for even since the Melee days.

really anyone who doesn't needs to get out of their bubble
corrin - advertisement marketing advertisement marketing advertisement marketing
bayonetta - nintendo is basically platinum games' donor for Bayo; it was a smart business move. hell, if they can, they might as well just buy platinum (or at least a share). they have a share in cygames of all things.

and,
when they said "realizable characters" I quickly realized they'd go for something more hype and save characters like Wolf and Ridley for Smash Ult so I'm not really shocked. Now that we know about how Ultimate was developed, it makes the "realizable characters" part less shocking. why put in wolf if wolf was already going to be in ulti anyways? like, by 2015, it looks like the "abandon ship" thing was pretty clear

finally
ya'll might as well wait for sourcegaming and other sources to clear the air on this

Spoiler

smashboards' writing team is already investigating

listen to this man, he has a brain.

WiiU was a bad system and was underperforming. Might as well save the big guns for the mothership, aka the Switch. Look at all the WiiU ports we got-- all great games that undersold because they were part of a system that not many cared for.

 

[sdpdude9]

So here's a little game. Which character would put as a lock to be in and which highly requested character do you think is definitely not in?

Definitely in: King K. Rool. He's at the top of every voting list I've seen and I think roster will be heavily influenced by the ballot.

Definitely not in: Banjo. I don't think they'll be able to work it out with Microsoft.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Off-topic for a second; That pic looks familiar. Urusei Yatsura?

yea

 

[UberMadman]

I just wanted to say to Swamp Sensei that I'm revising my answer to your question from the other night slightly. You asked which newcomers and echo fighters would be the most recently released chronologically, and I stand by the part of my original answer that states Decidueye would be the most recent release on the base roster and Rex and Pyra would be the most recent characters if the game got DLC. However, I would like to revise my answer for the Echo character. I previously stated that I believed Dark Samus would be the most chronologically recent echo fighter, but I completely forgot that Chrom has a decent shot of being an Ike echo this time around, so I would like to revise my answer to him.

 

[Zerp]

Oh, does anyone know if this Bayonetta information has reached the Japanese Smash community yet?

 

[Slavic]

Going off the topic of ballot stuff....I can't be the only one who thinks Bowser looks fantastic in Ultimate. A lot of characters do but Bowser's darker tone with his scales looks so good.

Making characters look good seems to be pretty high up on the priorities for Ultimate...

unless you're Snake ;~; poor man needs to do some squats

But I have been wondering if we should expect a whole wave of new Smash Ultimate amiibos, not just for majorly redesigned characters like the Zelda ones, but for all with new poses etc. (this might have been officially answered already lmao)

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I seriously think Geno will be in Smash Ultimate. I'm NOT SURE IF 3 Square-Enix characters will be in Smash tho (R.I.P SORA). Who knows tho eh?

Edit: It doesn't help that Bayonetta literally destroyed the Metagame in Smash 4 with her inclusion though.

 

[Wambo]

Making characters look good seems to be pretty high up on the priorities for Ultimate...

unless you're Snake ;~; poor man needs to do some squats

But I have been wondering if we should expect a whole wave of new Smash Ultimate amiibos, not just for majorly redesigned characters like the Zelda ones, but for all with new poses etc. (this might have been officially answered already lmao)

I wouldn't count on it, especially for redesigned vets. Nintendo has probably taken note of things like Skylanders/Disney Infinity ending, and I think a few more Smash Bros. amiibo are all that we should expect.

I'm personally happy about that, because I pity collectors in the future who have to track down every single freaking one of these things. Plus, I hated how some features were locked out of games with them (Metroid 3DS).

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I seriously think Geno will be in Smash Ultimate. I'm NOT SURE IF 3 Square-Enix characters will be in Smash tho (R.I.P SORA). Who knows tho eh?

I think it's agreed that Geno would be a Mario character if he were in Smash.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I think it's agreed that Geno would be a Mario character if he were in Smash.

Geno is Square-Enix property and they created him. I think due to licensing issues Geno would not be classified as a Mario character. I could be wrong

 

[StormC]

People on this forum sometimes act like Sakurai is their kindly old neighbor and Nintendo is some upstart little company that needs all the support it can.

They're businessmen. Their job is to make their bottomline look as nice as possible that year. We pay them money for their products.

Sakurai is a person and deserves as much respect as any artist - but he's a big boy. And Nintendo is a faceless corporation. They aren't your friend.

 

[Jetsurge]

I think the important thing to mention right now is that Sakurai said "I hope you don't expect too many newcomers", not meaning "expect one or two newcomers" (although someone should get confirmation of what he said in the Japanese stream). The fact that he said "too many" means to me that we should probably expect half of Smash 4's newcomers (21), and it's not too far out of the question to believe that we'll be getting the popular ballot choices as said newcomers.

I think since this game was supposedly built off of Smash 4, adding the returning fighters probably took the time it would've taken to add half of the ballot newcomers. Sakurai said that the Mii costumes were added so fans would at least feel they got something (this was because the most popular ballot choices were saved for the next game. This makes sense, as having all the popular characters saved for the next game would help sell both it and the console its on), and this was also to let fans know that the devs were paying close attention to the ballot, even if those fighters weren't added at the time.

I guess what I'm saying is, EVERYONE IS HERE, bois.

It's more likely characters like King K. Rool and Geno are playable since their mii costumes didn't use existing assets.

 

[Will]

Geno is Square-Enix property and they created him. I think due to licensing issues Geno would not be classified as a Mario character. I could be wrong

Considering each icon reprresents a different game, either in series name or specific quantities (Bayonetta is specifically Bayonetta 2, Cloud is FFVII, you get the gist), he'd either be in Mario or Mario RPG.

 

[lordvaati]

There's a lot of iffy co-owned characters in hindsight-Waluigi and Isaac are part Camelot, Vaati is part Capcom, Geno, Mallow and Culex part Square, Linkle(might be) part Tecmo-Koei....

 

[Thirdkoopa]

People on this forum sometimes act like Sakurai is their kindly old neighbor and Nintendo is some upstart little company that needs all the support it can.

They're businessmen. Their job is to make their bottomline look as nice as possible that year. We pay them money for their products.

Sakurai is a person and deserves as much respect as any artist - but he's a big boy. And Nintendo is a faceless corporation. They aren't your friend.

this man is smart as well. please listen to this man.

Also, it's pretty selfless when you think about it. A bloody roster that's over 70 characters? Honestly, it's shaping up to be the roster everyone dreamed about in Brawl and then some more. By that I mean, a lot more.

 

[Opossum]

Making characters look good seems to be pretty high up on the priorities for Ultimate...

unless you're Snake ;~; poor man needs to do some squats

But I have been wondering if we should expect a whole wave of new Smash Ultimate amiibos, not just for majorly redesigned characters like the Zelda ones, but for all with new poses etc. (this might have been officially answered already lmao)

Honestly I doubt it. Reggie may have said Nintendo is still going "all in" on amiibo, but they've also said they're continuing 3DS support well into 2019 despite the system being on life support.

The bubble has long since burst for Toys to Life. Skylanders, Disney Infinity, and Lego Dimensions are all discontinued. Stores like Walmart and most GameStops don't have dedicated TTL shelfspace anymore. Even with amiibo themselves, the enormous Animal Crossing line flopped so hard that if you found a mint condition Tom Nook for over three dollars, you were getting conned. Amiibo support has since been smaller, with the only other notably big series since being the Zelda line. Everything else comes in small batches of 2-3 amiibo for a specific game.

I don't see them making another Mario or Mewtwo or Marth or Mac. Besides returning veterans and newcomers, the only new ones I can see are additional "Player 2" versions for Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Ike, and maybe female Robin and Alph.