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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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wildvine47

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Went ahead and did my post-E3 prediction roster.

11 Unique Newcomers
1. Inkling
2. Ridley
3. Dixie Kong
4. King K. Rool
5. Decidueye
6. Bandana Dee
7. Ashley
8. Elma
9. Marshal
10. Simon Belmont
11. Rayman

4 Echo Newcomers
1. Daisy
2. Impa
3. Chrom
4. Dark Samus

80 characters total, 15 newcomers altogether, which is more than Melee but less than Brawl and Smash 4. I waffled on Captain Toad for a while, but he lost out due to Toad getting more involved in Peach's moveset, and to keep the roster a nice even square. He's still the one I feel I'm most in danger of being wrong about, though. Sub in Chorus Kids instead of Marshal if you like, I just prefer having Marshal as a named character instead of the trio of unnamed kids.
 

Freduardo

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Not really. Ganondorf had a sword in the data in Melee from the start. He always had a sword in Smash, just not always using it.

However, Dead Man's Volley was only relevant to Ganondorf in OOT. After that, later games gave tons of characters Dead Man's Volley. It's not Ganondorf's signature ability in any way, just a really cool boss fight idea that got repeated over and over. Besides first being used by Agnahim, it saw use by the Cubus Sisters(who were basically remakes of the Poe Sisters from OOT to a degree), a Blue Stalfos(as a boss), as well as Yuga Ganon(one of the few Ganon/dorf-related ones) and Phantom Ganon. Plus more. It'd take a while to pull up the list, but by the time Brawl came around, characters besides Ganondorf already went for it(Oracle games included, which has Blue Stalfos). It isn't a move tied to Ganon/dorf or his forms, so it makes sense they didn't bother with it. Meanwhile, the sword is often Ganondorf's canon weapon, which makes it actually more accurate to use, especially since it was implemented without completely overhauling his moveset too much(which again, makes sense because Sakurai has no interest in alienating players. He wants all movesets to only be updated, not completely changed over).
Not to mention Agnahim had dead man’s volley in Link to the Past.

But back then, Ganon wasn’t some suave looking man of machismo... he was a giant blue pig with a trident.

And I still would be happy seeing that pig in Smash. As Ganon and not Ganondorf. I’d prefer Vaati, but I’d be cool with Ganon.

Unfortunately, I think both of those were last relevant in Four Sword Adventures on GameCube.
 

Idon

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My wish is that each character has a stage dedicated to them with a specific music remix associated with them.

We already almost have it for most characters, but for some characters it's a bit of a stretch to call it their "home" stage. Or at least Fire Emblem not having generic-brand "Colisseum" or "Castle Siege."
I mean come on, at least call it "Arena" instead.
 
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Ashuree

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Personally I'm glad this speculation period is shortened and a lot of uncertainties are cleared up. Smash speculation is not good for my health and I'm not getting any younger. The table has been cleared at this point and right or wrong... we'll know the end result in a few months.
Yep, then the dlc speculation can commence!
 
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AlphaSSB

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Okay, in conjunction with the whole 12 Newcomers Challenge. Would you guys rather do a 10 Stage Challenge or 10 PokéBall Pokémon Challenge?
Why not both?

10 Stages:
Bowser's Castle (Super Mario)
Volcano Dome (Donkey Kong)
Twilight Realm (The Legend of Zelda)
Phendrana Drifts (Metroid)
Sector Beta (Star Fox)
Alola Islands (Pokemon)
Holosseum (Custom Robo)
Main Street (Animal Crossing)
Spring Stadium (ARMS)
City Escape (Sonic the Hedgehog)

10 Poke Ball Summons:
Ditto - Transform (Turns into the summoner's character, uses Neutral Special a few times towards enemies before disappearing.)
Totodile - Bite (If it contacts an enemy, Totodile latches onto to them compulsively biting for a short while before disappearing.)
Sceptile - Pound (Quickly dashes towards mid-air opponents, and meteor smashes them downward using its tail.)
Blaziken - Sky Uppercut (Charges towards opponents and launches them into the air.)
Swampert - Muddy Water (Send out multiple waves of brown water, catching fighters and drifting them off the stage.)
Croagunk - Poison Jab (Once an enemy comes to close, it hits them with Poison Jab, causing them to fall over like from a Focus Attack.)
Excadrill - Rapid Spin (Slides back and forth across the stage, rapidly spinning around, dealing multiple hits to enemies that come close.)
Doublade - Sacred Sword (Selects random enemies and starts violently attacking them, leaving them vulnerable for a short duration.)
Hoopa - Hyperspace Hole (Travels the stage grabbing enemies and throwing them through Hyperspace Holes, teleporting them randomly.)
Mimikyu - Let's Snuggle Forever (Covers the target in its disguise, then rapidly attacks them before disappearing, leaving them on the ground.)
 

Tree Gelbman

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Make Pyrosphere Ridley's stage for ****s and giggles.

Daisy should have a Mario Tennis/Mario Sports based stage. Maybe a traveling stage like the prior Mario Kart one, but it'd fly over Tennis Courts, Baseball Diamonds, etc, etc.
 

Fenriraga

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Minus Zelda, Metroid, Splatoon and Street Fighter cause we already have remixes of them, as well as retros like R.O.B And Game & Watch...

Minus the Miis...

24 series left...

Hmm....
That also doesn't account for any inevitable new series we're going to be getting within these next 6 months. And If they keep doing the "3 Veterans a week" deal that'll only get them through the beginning of November, so they'd need more to fill that gap in.

It would help if the Smash Blog wasn't as stupidly unpredictable as it is right now, lol.
 

Omega Tyrant

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Yeah, well competitive viability does very little to affect a character's fanbase. In fact, being low-tier is probably a boon for that character's popularity due to the whole underdog factor.
In practically every fighting game, you'll find the trope of the "Big, slow, strong-man that hits hard" and you'll also find that they often have their fan followings regardless of how good they are (which they usually aren't unless their name rhymes with android kicksteen or crack-7).

That "what-if" scenario and Sakurai's whole phobia against alienating the current Smash fanbase is why I would always take a character to not be included in Smash for a while, then be doomed to an eternity of small gradual changes while still forever remaining as a template of some other character.
It does affect it, bad characters will always have a lot less people playing them, low/bottom tiers in Smash always had much smaller playerbases on average than the top/high tiers. Even characters that were really popular in prior games can have their playerbase become near-nonexistent if the character becomes bad; case-in-point Captain Falcon in Brawl and Falco in Smash 4. Even if the character is still good they will see a drastic shrinkage of their playerbase upon being nerfed substantially, such as Meta Knight to Smash 4 (where no exaggeration probably less than 5% of his Brawl players still played him), and Diddy/Luigi/Sheik in Smash 4 after the patches with the key nerfs.
 
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Jedisupersonic

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Which Bowser's Castle do people want? It's gone through countless iterations
"it is a creature of chaos it may take many incarnations"
Sorry the Simon hype is making me quote Castlevania lines.

I think a Bowsers Airship is preferable to me, but for a Castle why not the classic Mario Bros 1 final castle?
 
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SquashiniKun

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Here are my 10 Stages:
1. Mario Party (Mario)
2. Realm Of The Fey (Miitopia)
3. Delfino Plaza (Mario)
4. Fountain Of Dreams (Kirby)
5. Remix (Rhythm Heaven)
6. Avenue Park (Sonic Forces)
7. Pac-Maze (PacMan)
8. Dance Dance Revolution
9. Dive Into The Heart (Kingdom Hearts)
10. The Desk from the opening of Smash 64
 
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Will

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If Ike's VA is changed, I just hope "I fight for my friends" isn't gone. :crying:
 

Guybrush20X6

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Yep, then the dlc speculation can commence!
Especially now there's no Veterans, meaning it's all new fighters from here on out. Until Smash 7 anyways.
 

Jedisupersonic

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If Ike's VA is changed, I just hope "I fight for my friends" isn't gone. :crying:
Yeah it's different, but since he still has prepare yourself maybe "I fight for my friends" is there still too.

Meanwhile i'm just sitting over here glad Adkins is gone finally, as I thought he did a horrible job as Ike besides his grunts in Smash.
 

Green_Pikmin*

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Okay, in conjunction with the whole 12 Newcomers Challenge. Would you guys rather do a 10 Stage Challenge or 10 PokéBall Pokémon Challenge?

TOP 10 STAGES
1. Mangrove Cove (DK Tropical Freeze)
2. Planet SR338 (Metroid Samus Returns 3DS)
3. Flip Around Stage (Yoshi Switch)
4. Sacred Square (Kirby Star Allies)
5. Aquarosa (Star Fox Zero)
6. Altar of the Sunne/Moone (Pokémon S&M)
7. Bottomless Canyon (Fire Emblem Fates)
8. Starfall Basin (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
9 Camp Omega (Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes)
10. Rhythm Heaven (Rhythm Heaven Megamix)

TOP 10 POKÉBALL POKÉMON
1. Blastoise (Hydro Pump) *Return from Melee
2. Unown (Take Down) *Return from Melee
3. Sceptile (Leaf Blade) *If Not Playable
4. Porygon-Z (Tackle) *Same As Porygon 2 from Melee
5. Alolan Exeggutor (Dragon Tail)
6. Litten (Fire Fang)
7. Popplio (Water Gun)
8. Mimikyu (Theif)
9. Buzzwole (Superpower)
10. Necrozma (Prismatic Laser)
 
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Shyy_Guy595

Smash Champion
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Why is Decidueye still a popular choice again? It's not a lock by any means and it's main argument literally relies on a coin toss between it and the other 'mon it is competing with.

Pokken also doesn't help it, as it probably wasn't even considered for that fighting game at first given it's part of a deluxe edition that came out in 2017. The initial game came out in 2015, however, which could've been looked to as a good ground for a moveset for those 'mon which would include: Sceptile, Blaziken, Machamp, Gardevoir, and Garchomp. Those are the ones Ican see Sakurai taking am interest in.

We'll see though.
 

Will

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Yeah it's different, but since he still has prepare yourself maybe "I fight for my friends" is there still too.

Meanwhile i'm just sitting over here glad Adkins is gone finally, as I thought he did a horrible job as Ike besides his grunts in Smash.
I have the opposite thought. I love Adkins but his new voice actor to me is inferior. Good, but not as good. :substitute: or maybe i just have bad taste
 

KMDP

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Sakurai said:
"Don't expect too many Newcomers."
HMK said:
Apparently Nintendo said that all we saw so far with #SuperSmashBrosUltimate is literally the tip of the Iceberg... DUDE WHAT!?!?
Watch Smash Ultimate have the most Newcomers of any Smash game when all is said and done. :laugh:
 

MagnesD3

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Thanks for everyone who replied to my post about about 12 newcomers.

Here’s a challenge for you all,
Since the OG12 seems to hold such an importance this time around. Let’s do a 12 Newcomers list. They can be predicted, wanted, or both. Rules are 8 original/unique characters (2 of which have already been revealed in Inkling and Ridley, so you only need 6 more.) 2 semi-clones, and 2 Echoes (1 of which is Daisy, so you really only need 1 more.)

And....GO!
Predicted

1. Inkling
2. Ridley
3. Elma
4. Chorus Kids
5. Simon Belmont
6. King K Rool
7. Geno
8. Decidueye

Semi

9. Dixie Kong
10. Impa

Echo

11. Chrom
12. Daisy
 
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Opossum

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Yeah it's different, but since he still has prepare yourself maybe "I fight for my friends" is there still too.

Meanwhile i'm just sitting over here glad Adkins is gone finally, as I thought he did a horrible job as Ike besides his grunts in Smash.
My god were his lines in Fates bad. I was thinking maybe it was just the voice direction of the Tellius games, but in Fates he didn't do a good job at all. To quote a YouTube comment, it sounded like he was trying not to wake his mom when recording.
 

Jedisupersonic

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I have the opposite thought. I love Adkins but his new voice actor to me is inferior. Good, but not as good. :substitute:or maybe i just have bad taste
To each their own, I mean differing opinions are part of why discussion is fun! I just personally wasn't fond of him and I like how soft spoken Greg Chun is, fits PoR Ike in particular, Adkin's might be more fitting for the gruff Ike though I'll have to admit at least a little.

Just don't ask him to play kid Ike ever again.
 

Hinata

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To each their own, I mean differing opinions are part of why discussion is fun! I just personally wasn't fond of him and I like how soft spoken Greg Chun is, fits PoR Ike in particular, Adkin's might be more fitting for the gruff Ike though I'll have to admit at least a little.
That's why they should've had Greg Chun play PoR Ike, and Adkins play RD Ike.

Because they made a point of advertising "hey, the two Ikes have different voice clips!" but right now it's just Ike, and Ike but a little more forceful.
 

SuperSmashStephen

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Okay and now for the 10 Pokémon! I’m glad everyone liked the desk idea. That, the Mantine Surf, and Nintendo Badge Arcade were my personal favs.

Okay, Pokémon.
I know I said 10 but I’m going to do 15. I’m a really big Pokémon fan. Breaking my own rule. 10 regular, and 5 legendary.

1. Miltank - Rollout. If you played Gold & Silver, you know why.

2. Delibird - Present. Delibird has a special gift just for you! Could it be food? A healing item? Or a bomb?

3. Magikarp - Splash. Replaces Goldeen.

4. Lilligant - Petal Dance

5. Popplio - Bubble

6. Vivillon - Swarm. All the different Vivillon patterns show up. Think Bedrill from Smash 64.

7. Spinda - Dizzy Punch. If a player is hit by Dizzy Punch, it gives a Broken Shield effect.

8. Cranidos- Headbutt.

9. Porygon Z - Tri Attack. If it hits it either burns, stuns, or freezes.

10. Silvally- Multi-Attack.

Legendaries/Ultra Beast:

1. Hoopa (Unbound): Hyperspace Punch

2. Marshadow - Soul Stealing 7-Star Strike. If it lands at any percentage, it KO’s.

3. Blacephalon

4. Tapu Koko

5. Poipole
 

Jedisupersonic

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That's why they should've had Greg Chun play PoR Ike, and Adkins play RD Ike.

Because they made a point of advertising "hey, the two Ikes have different voice clips!" but right now it's just Ike, and Ike but a little more forceful.
Nah even if I admitted it slightly, no adkins is better than any adkins at all to me, after having to suffer through him for PoR, RD, Codename Steam and Fates.
 

Will

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That's why they should've had Greg Chun play PoR Ike, and Adkins play RD Ike.

Because they made a point of advertising "hey, the two Ikes have different voice clips!" but right now it's just Ike, and Ike but a little more forceful.
I like to believe they just forgot they already had him record lines so when they had the duplicates they just said "you know what, **** it let's just say this one is more gruff".
 

SquashiniKun

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Watch Smash Ultimate have the most Newcomers of any Smash game when all is said and done. :laugh:
Sakurai: Whew, finally, after several months of development, all 12 newcomers of smash ultimate are finally done. now it's finally time to relax.
*Sakurai looks at the calendar*
*It says it's october 7th*
Sakurai: looks like i have a month left to finish this game, it couldn't hurt to add in a couple more characters.
*Sakurai then proceeds to add in 48 more newcomers, and none of them are Waluigi*
 

CaptainAmerica

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At this point, I might as well change my username to "Champion Defender".



(1) Unlikely all four of them will be AT's at this point. We'd have seen at least one by now if they were (not to mention a Gaurdian would probably be a better choice for a BotW Assist Trophy). Not impossible to see one or two, but not all of them are going this route.

(2) The first project plan being completed in 2015 does not mean the roster was finalized by then. The staff wasn't even hired yet, and Sakurai was likely busy working on basic elements for the game rather than just thinking about which newcomers to add. Heck, the Switch wasn't even a thing back then.

(3) Just like with Spring Man and Rex/Pyra, concept art for the Champion definitely existed by mid-2016. Seeing how BotW was showcased at E3 2016 and there was still a solid two and a half years left for production, I doubt bad timing will be the reason why the Champions might not get in.



I'll have to respectfully disagree. Even if the Champions aren't on the levels of Midna and Skull Kid, BotW was a ground-breaking game. Just because they don't have that same level of iconicness now doesn't mean that they'll never be able to get there.

Besides, all four them have wonderful moveset potential. It's not like I'm supporting a bunch of sitting ducks who can't work in Smash.



Same thing I told KingBroly. Highly unlikely the whole roster was decided three years before the release, especially when the focus was bringing back content from previous games. That's even longer than the entire development time it took to create both Smash 3DS and Wii U combined.

And while Impa and Skull Kid could've easily been chosen if Sakurai was specifically looking for a Zelda newcomer, "Zelda Wii U" was in development since 2012. Sakurai was well-aware of BotW's existence way before the first project plan, and unlike Sonic, adding a single Champion as late as even March 2017 wouldn't be impossible, as there was still quite a bit of development time left.

With a game like BotW, yes, I could see Sakurai "pulling a Sonic" if he saw potential in one of the Champs.
Don’t worry, you’re not the only one pulling for a champion...but I don’t think we support the same one...

Super casual alert: I’ve always loved the transformations, so I’d totally be cool with all four champions being in as transformations of each other. It’d keep it so they’re all equally important, and then we can each play the one we want.

We can all make cases for each one, but based on the timeframe, popularity won’t enter into it. I’m hoping that we can see them show up in the game.
 

Omega Tyrant

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Why is Decidueye still a popular choice again? It's not a lock by any means and it's main argument literally relies on a coin toss between it and the other 'mon it is competing with.

Pokken also doesn't help it, as it probably wasn't even considered for that fighting game at first given it's part of a deluxe edition that came out in 2017. The initial game came out in 2015, however, which could've been looked to as a good ground for a moveset for those 'mon which would include: Sceptile, Blaziken, Machamp, Gardevoir, and Garchomp. Those are the ones Ican see Sakurai taking am interest in.

We'll see though.
Decidueye was just the popular frontrunner for a long time for various reasons (I was one of those who thought he was most likely even somewhat recently), and I think it's just hard for people to move past long-held assumptions, plus recency bias; there's still some people thinking an Arms character and Rex/Pyra and other such other recent characters are likely to happen after the revelation of the project plan happening in December 2015. Unlike those characters Decidueye's chances aren't complete shot however, but it does rely on Sakurai taking a particular liking to him (which no one but Sakurai can know which pokemon he will fancy best) or Sakurai really wanting a fully evolved grass pokemon (which has thus far seems to be only a fan desire rather than something Sakurai has actually cared about).

I do think there will be a new pokemon despite Pichu/Squirtle/Ivysaur coming back, but I see it as essentially a dice roll on which pokemon it will be, and I think there's a chance it might not even be a gen 7 pokemon.
 
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CJ Falcon

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Wait, why do people think there will be 12 newcomers? I mean excluding dlc, Lucina, and Dark Pit, that's only 3 less than Smash 4. Sounds like too much to me considering what Sakurai said.
 

MagnesD3

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Why is Decidueye still a popular choice again? It's not a lock by any means and it's main argument literally relies on a coin toss between it and the other 'mon it is competing with.

Pokken also doesn't help it, as it probably wasn't even considered for that fighting game at first given it's part of a deluxe edition that came out in 2017. The initial game came out in 2015, however, which could've been looked to as a good ground for a moveset for those 'mon which would include: Sceptile, Blaziken, Machamp, Gardevoir, and Garchomp. Those are the ones Ican see Sakurai taking am interest in.

We'll see though.
I’d probably lose it over Blazekin, wanted him since brawl but I’ve considered his chances pretty bunk ever since.
 

KingBroly

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Wait, why do people think there will be 12 newcomers? I mean excluding dlc, Lucina, and Dark Pit, that's only 3 less than Smash 4. Sounds like too much to me considering what Sakurai said.
Bringing back all of the Veterans (Pichu, Young Link, Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake and Pokemon Trainer) is cutting into the number of new characters.
 

Idon

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It does affect it, bad characters will always have a lot less people playing them, low/bottom tiers in Smash always had much smaller playerbases on average than the top/high tiers. Even characters that were really popular in prior games can have their playerbase become near-nonexistent if the character becomes bad; case-in-point Captain Falcon in Brawl and Falco in Smash 4. Even if the character is still good they will see a drastic shrinkage of their playerbase upon being nerfed substantially, such as Meta Knight to Smash 4 (where no exaggeration probably less than 5% of his Brawl players still played him), and Diddy/Luigi/Sheik in Smash 4 after the patches with the key nerfs.
Yes, but competitive viability and competitive playerbase (or even semi-competitive playerbase) don't exactly correlate with popularity.

For example, you'll find many people pick Bayo in tourney, but you'll only find people really cheer when someone pulls out a surprise pick many would consider low-tier, like Duck Hunt.

It's not rare for people to like a character and not play them in a tense win-or-lose situation.
 
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L9999

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A lot of the veterans could use an overhaul to better represent them or their series. Maybe I should make a list of that sort of stuff
Quite sincerely they are all fine, and I say they are good representations.

:ultmario: is designed to be simple. His tilts and aerials have straightfoward functions, his smash attacks are fast and hit hard, and his mobility is easy to handle. His specials all educate on the simple special functions. Fireball is a projectile, Cape is a reflector, SJP is a recovery move, and FLUDD while unorthodox serve to teach about charge pressure and ledgeguarding. All of his specials represent Mario pretty well. FLUDD is "outdated," but there is nothing inherently wrong with it, and it is pretty good to Mario's gameplan.

:ultdk: is like Mario but more goofy and with more brute strength. In Smash is a mobile heavyweight with decent frame data who hits hard and is straightfoward. With his new grab animation, S4 dash attack, his facial animations, and his already iconic moves like Down B it is safe to assume he is well represented.

:ultlink: IMO was changed to BOTW as a fad. :link64: was based on OoT but if you think about it his moveset was an amalgation of all the common Zelda stuff by that point (bombs, hookshot, boomerang, spin attack), :linkmelee: added the arrows. :link2: followed the TP fad but he was fundamentally the same. I am also under the impression they changed Link as :ultyounglink: would be coming back, thus the radical changes like normal grab and remote controlled bombs. His design was never unfaithful to Zelda games. He even got a less generic dash attack in Smash 4 to represent jump attack.

:ultkirby: is well represented. No need for change.

:ultfox: has a moveset inspired by loose things in SF like deflecting projectiles, the rapid fire, the hand guns in SF SNES, and the general speed. His design in gameplay is functional, no need for change.

:ultsamus: Some say she should be changed but much like Link, all of her common tools from Metroid are used in her design (Charge Shot, Missiles, Bomb, Screw Attack, Grapple Beam). Her made up moves have nothing inherently wrong with them either.

:ultpikachu: is well represented. No need for change.

:ultluigi:has gained some of his own stuff over time but I think his Smash design represents him really well. Luigi has always been similar to Mario, but with his own flare of slippery attributes. S64 also gave origin to his goofy/coward persona.

:ultness: represents MOTHER really well. It is a gimmicky game with a lot of silly attacks, which Ness does. A lot of his normal moves are product of Smash 64 low budget but they have gained uniqueness over the years adding in PSI effects.

:ultfalcon: has made up moves from the beta of Dragon King the Fighting Game. F-Zero racers have been parodies of common media characters, being an over-the-top meme factory represents that aspect well. F-Zero is also a game about speed and heavy punishment, which is what Captain Falcon does.

:ultjigglypuff: was a product of her popularity in 1998 and low budget, but her being a meme joke character is part of her design, which shouldn't be discarded for the sake of "faithful representation."
 
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Omega Tyrant

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Don’t worry, you’re not the only one pulling for a champion...but I don’t think we support the same one...

Super casual alert: I’ve always loved the transformations, so I’d totally be cool with all four champions being in as transformations of each other. It’d keep it so they’re all equally important, and then we can each play the one we want.

We can all make cases for each one, but based on the timeframe, popularity won’t enter into it. I’m hoping that we can see them show up in the game.
The problem with that is it would require creating four unique newcomers, for a character most casuals would just view as one (failing to appreciate how much work went into them), plus all the extra work needed to get their "transformation" working and trying to balance them so players might actually try them all together instead of just playing the one they like most. Instead of that, you could have a single Zelda newcomer that just takes the work of one character and then three other separate newcomers from other series. That's the big problem with transformation characters, and while something like Majora's Mask Link using each of his transformation masks would be really neat on paper, it's very impractical from a developmental standpoint. I extremely doubt we will ever see a character like Pokemon Trainer again because Sakurai witnessed firsthand how much of a development sink it was trying to get the idea to work, and if this Smash's wasn't intentionally bringing back literally everyone as its top priority, I don't think we would have seen Pokemon Trainer again even if the Switch could handle transformations.
 

CaptainAmerica

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It does affect it, bad characters will always have a lot less people playing them, low/bottom tiers in Smash always had much smaller playerbases on average than the top/high tiers. Even characters that were really popular in prior games can have their playerbase become near-nonexistent if the character becomes bad; case-in-point Captain Falcon in Brawl and Falco in Smash 4. Even if the character is still good they will see a drastic shrinkage of their playerbase upon being nerfed substantially, such as Meta Knight to Smash 4 (where no exaggeration probably less than 5% of his Brawl players still played him), and Diddy/Luigi/Sheik in Smash 4 after the patches with the key nerfs.
Not everyone plays competitively. My favorite characters have been sitting pretty at the bottom of the tier list every game. Doesn’t mean I like them less.

After all, how many kids are goig around screaming Sheik’s name since she’s a speedster?

I think we like to forget Smash is trying to cater to two different audiences here. Sm4sh sometimes did a poor job of it, so hopefully Ultimate is better at that.
 

Radical Bones

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I love Smash Ganon, so I can understand why Sakurai is reluctant to change veterans too much. It does suck for fans who want a better representation of their character though.
This point does bother me a little bit if I'm being honest.

There are quite a few characters from 64/Melee who could do with a moveset update. It's a little annoying that some characters are stuck with moves just because they've had them forever.

I'd love to see a DK overhaul, with a barrel cannon as his Up Special and him throwing a barrel as his Side Special. I can see why they weren't included in 64, but nowadays...

Other characters that could do with an overhaul in my opinion:

:ultyoshi::ultluigi::ultjigglypuff::ultfalcon::ultdoc::ultfalco::ultyounglink:
 

Omega Tyrant

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Yes, but competitive viability and competitive playerbase (or even semi-competitive playerbase) don't exactly correlate with popularity.

For example, you'll find many people pick Bayo in tourney, but you'll only find people really cheer when someone pulls out a surprise pick many would consider low-tier, like Duck Hunt.

It's not rare for people to like a character and not play them in a tense win-or-lose situation.
By popularity I'm talking about how much people like to play the character, not just how much people enjoy watching them; as is, Ganondorf's playerbase, both those who play him seriously and those who play him for fun, is very large disproportionally for how a poor a character he has been.
 

Honest Slug

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The fact that we still don't have a Bowser's Castle is honestly inexcusable.

I will work on my 10 stages later.
 

Idon

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By popularity I'm talking about how much people like to play the character, not just how much people enjoy watching them; as is, Ganondorf's playerbase, both those who play him seriously and those who play him for fun, is very large disproportionally for how a poor a character he has been.
Well, even in terms of being a VERY poor character, the big-heavy archetype is just downright fun for many people, regardless of tourney viability.

Had Ganondorf had a technical-zoner esque template like Zelda or Samus, I'd imagine he'd have quite a smaller fanbase.

Which is also why I believe someone like Pichu doesn't have as much fan outcry.
 
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