Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DarkFalcon]

Keep in mind that Oddysey finished development before January 2017 and Breath of The Wild was delayed multiple times, one of them being for the reason relating to issues with the physics engine. Those two games getting significant content representation is no surprise to me.

I didn't doubt them getting content from those games. I'm just saying I'm not surprised Mario and Link didn't get complete overhauls. Link got more than Mario, who's main gimmick from Odyssey is just a cameo in some of his animations. If Ultimate started its project plan a year later I could picture both Link and Mario having more moveset changes.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I’m starting to think Sakurai just liked what he saw from the 2000 Spaceworld demo, which probably explains why he gave Ganondorf the sword in his Melee render.

That’s practically what he is when you think about it: Spaceworld Ganondorf.

I like that. It adds to the idea of the Zelda roster in this game being an amalgamation of several of their incarnations.

 

[Will]

Damn; this TAS remembers me why MK is so overpower in Brawl xD

That was just an example. The best TAS is probably 0.84, probably just for this scene alone is what reminded me of that Peach combo video:

Spoiler: It needs a spoiler cause it's that good.

Though, you should watch the whole video. For 2012 this was GOD TIER editing for a Smash video.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

https://smashboards.com/threads/sup...t-with-all-confirmed-tracks-come-help.455997/

I made a new thread to talk about the soundtrack of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

I'm currently making a list of every confirmed track in the game.

Come and swing by!

 

[Opossum]

Okay, in conjunction with the whole 12 Newcomers Challenge. Would you guys rather do a 10 Stage Challenge or 10 PokéBall Pokémon Challenge?

Going for want over prediction here.

Ten Poké Balls:
Klefki (Fairy Lock), Ribombee (Pollen Puff), Shiftry (Hurricane), Qwilfish (Fell Stinger), Castform (Rain Dance/Sunny Day/Hail + Weather Ball), Sawsbuck (Horn Leech), Sigilyph (Air Slash), Chandelure (Inferno), Marowak (Bonemerang), Dhelmise (Anchor Shot).

Literally just some of my favorite Pokémon lol.


Ten Stages:
Bowser's Castle (Super Mario Bros.)
Maple Treeway (Mario Kart Wii)
Koholint Island (The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening)
Fortree City (Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire)
Iki Town (Pokémon Sun and Moon)
Macedonian Aerie (Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon)
Duma Tower (Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia)
The Lady Liberty (Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.)
Professor Hector's Lab (Gyromite)
N. Sanity Beach (Crash Bandicoot)

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Also. The plan being done late 2015 explains why Mario and Link don't have full redesigns. Cappy is just a cameo, and Link isn't a full on redesign, just some elements of BOTW.

Stages and music aren't as difficult as characters either, so Mario having an Odyssey level with music from that game isn't nearly as hard to implement later in development compared to a brand new character.

I don't think that's the reason Mario doesn't use Odyssey stuff at all in his moveset while Link only uses a bit of BOTW stuff; the main reason simply is that Sakurai doesn't change veterans much to avoid alienating their players (and probably a developmentally pragmatic decision too as it's easier to just bring a veteran back as is instead of turning them into essentially a new character); characters can get a new look alongside a few new moves and animations, but no one's core design has wavered throughout Smash history. We all know the case of Ganondorf, but the original 12 have it about as bad too, with them lacking many new abilities they gained in their own games since Smash 64 released while still being among the simplest characters in Smash (especially when compared to the Smash 4 newcomers).

With Link in particular we already been through this, where he was changed from OoT Link to TP Link in Brawl, yet the only weapons he got from TP were the Gale Boomerang and Clawshot (the latter of which was just an aesthetic change) while getting none of the hidden skills implemented into his moveset, and then Smash 4 didn't add any TP stuff either. Then Toon Link in Brawl just got a decloned Young Link moveset while having absolutely nothing from WW/PH, even getting a cloned Triforce Slash for a final smash instead of the obvious Hurricane Slash, and in Smash 4 he still got nothing from WW/PH/ST. People expecting Link to get overhauled in Smash Ultimate just because he had his BOTW look were being very ignorant of how veterans been handled throughout Smash history.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I don't think that's the reason Mario doesn't use Odyssey stuff at all in his moveset while Link only uses a bit of BOTW stuff; the main reason simply is that Sakurai doesn't change veterans much to avoid alienating their players (and probably a developmentally pragmatic decision too as it's easier to just bring a veteran back as is instead of turning them into essentially a new character); characters can get a new look alongside a few new moves and animations, but no one's core design has wavered throughout Smash history. We all know the case of Ganondorf, but the original 12 have it about as bad too, with them lacking many new abilities they gained in their own games since Smash 64 released while still being among the simplest characters in Smash (especially when compared to the Smash 4 newcomers).

With Link in particular we already been through this, where he was changed from OoT Link to TP Link in Brawl, yet the only weapons he got from TP were the Gale Boomerang and Clawshot (the latter of which was just an aesthetic change) while getting none of the hidden skills implemented into his moveset, and then Smash 4 didn't add any TP stuff either. Then Toon Link in Brawl just got a decloned Young Link moveset while having absolutely nothing from WW/PH, even getting a cloned Triforce Slash for a final smash instead of the obvious Hurricane Slash, and in Smash 4 he still got nothing from WW/PH/ST. People expecting Link to get overhauled in Smash Ultimate just because he had his BOTW look were being very ignorant of how veterans been handled throughout Smash history.

That's true too. I just didn't talk about it because it wasn't the point I was trying to make. I've been begging for a Samus redesign and I didn't get it so I'm sad.

 

[Enchess]

I don't think that's the reason Mario doesn't use Odyssey stuff at all in his moveset while Link only uses a bit of BOTW stuff; the main reason simply is that Sakurai doesn't change veterans much to avoid alienating their players (and probably a developmentally pragmatic decision too as it's easier to just bring a veteran back as is instead of turning them into essentially a new character); characters can get a new look alongside a few new moves and animations, but no one's core design has wavered throughout Smash history. We all know the case of Ganondorf, but the original 12 have it about as bad too, with them lacking many new abilities they gained in their own games since Smash 64 released while still being among the simplest characters in Smash (especially when compared to the Smash 4 newcomers).

With Link in particular we already been through this, where he was changed from OoT Link to TP Link in Brawl, yet the only weapons he got from TP were the Gale Boomerang and Clawshot (the latter of which was just an aesthetic change) while getting none of the hidden skills implemented into his moveset, and then Smash 4 didn't add any TP stuff either. Then Toon Link in Brawl just got a decloned Young Link moveset while having absolutely nothing from WW/PH, even getting a cloned Triforce Slash for a final smash instead of the obvious Hurricane Slash, and in Smash 4 he still got nothing from WW/PH/ST. People expecting Link to get overhauled in Smash Ultimate just because he had his BOTW look were being very ignorant of how veterans been handled throughout Smash history.

As someone who actually wants Ganondorf to remain a semi-clone, I actually really appreciate this honestly. I love playing Ganondorf because of how he feels, not really for his character. I have sympathy for those who like him for his character. I'd hate it if Shulk (my favorite in the roster outside of Smash) didn't have the Monado Arts and the future vision counter. But I think it's good to slowly build on existing characters a couple of abilities at a time. That's a good compromise between the two types of fans...

...but also it's still ridiculous Ganondorf got his sword before Dead Man's Volley haha

 

[Will]

...but also it's still ridiculous Ganondorf got his sword before Dead Man's Volley haha

Dead Man's Volley is just Dedede's Goros but they don't change that much speed when you hit 'em.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...but also it's still ridiculous Ganondorf got his sword before Dead Man's Volley haha

Not really. Ganondorf had a sword in the data in Melee from the start. He always had a sword in Smash, just not always using it.

However, Dead Man's Volley was only relevant to Ganondorf in OOT. After that, later games gave tons of characters Dead Man's Volley. It's not Ganondorf's signature ability in any way, just a really cool boss fight idea that got repeated over and over. Besides first being used by Agnahim, it saw use by the Cubus Sisters(who were basically remakes of the Poe Sisters from OOT to a degree), a Blue Stalfos(as a boss), as well as Yuga Ganon(one of the few Ganon/dorf-related ones) and Phantom Ganon. Plus more. It'd take a while to pull up the list, but by the time Brawl came around, characters besides Ganondorf already went for it(Oracle games included, which has Blue Stalfos). It isn't a move tied to Ganon/dorf or his forms, so it makes sense they didn't bother with it. Meanwhile, the sword is often Ganondorf's canon weapon, which makes it actually more accurate to use, especially since it was implemented without completely overhauling his moveset too much(which again, makes sense because Sakurai has no interest in alienating players. He wants all movesets to only be updated, not completely changed over).

 

[DarkFalcon]

I love Smash Ganon, so I can understand why Sakurai is reluctant to change veterans too much. It does suck for fans who want a better representation of their character though.

 

[_Sheik]

Opinion: I consider Smash 4's DLC newcomers as, well, newcomers for SSBU, since I never bought them/played as them.

 

[Idon]

Opinion: I consider Smash 4's DLC newcomers as, well, newcomers for SSBU, since I never bought them/played as them.

That's not an opinion.
That's just wrong.

 

[Phil Time]

It looks like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate will actually be released this year.

I kept saying that it was very likely that Super Smash Bros. Ultimate would be released in 2019 (or later).

No matter. I still don't have Nintendo Switch anyway.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I don't think that's the reason Mario doesn't use Odyssey stuff at all in his moveset while Link only uses a bit of BOTW stuff; the main reason simply is that Sakurai doesn't change veterans much to avoid alienating their players (and probably a developmentally pragmatic decision too as it's easier to just bring a veteran back as is instead of turning them into essentially a new character); characters can get a new look alongside a few new moves and animations, but no one's core design has wavered throughout Smash history. We all know the case of Ganondorf, but the original 12 have it about as bad too, with them lacking many new abilities they gained in their own games since Smash 64 released while still being among the simplest characters in Smash (especially when compared to the Smash 4 newcomers).

With Link in particular we already been through this, where he was changed from OoT Link to TP Link in Brawl, yet the only weapons he got from TP were the Gale Boomerang and Clawshot (the latter of which was just an aesthetic change) while getting none of the hidden skills implemented into his moveset, and then Smash 4 didn't add any TP stuff either. Then Toon Link in Brawl just got a decloned Young Link moveset while having absolutely nothing from WW/PH, even getting a cloned Triforce Slash for a final smash instead of the obvious Hurricane Slash, and in Smash 4 he still got nothing from WW/PH/ST. People expecting Link to get overhauled in Smash Ultimate just because he had his BOTW look were being very ignorant of how veterans been handled throughout Smash history.

A lot of the veterans could use an overhaul to better represent them or their series. Maybe I should make a list of that sort of stuff

 

[_Sheik]

That's not an opinion.
That's just wrong.

The first two words of my post are evidence that it is a subjective opinion, though?

 

[Will]

The first two words of my post are evidence that it is a subjective opinion, though?

That's not how it works boyo, I could put any fact after "I consider" but it wouldn't make it my subjective opinion. I could've never unlocked Duck Hunt in Smash 4, therefore if I unlock him in Smash Ultimate he is now a newcomer. Not sound logic.

 

[Idon]

The first two words of my post are evidence that it is a subjective opinion, though?

Just saying it's an opinion doesn't make it subjective (or an opinion).

For example,
"Opinion: The Earth is flat."

Now unless you're so willing to accept everything as a relative opinion, that statement is clearly wrong, as is your's.

 

[RandomAce]

So what are we talking about right now?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Cut the semantics. It's just a fun thing the person is doing. They can feel how they want.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

As someone who actually wants Ganondorf to remain a semi-clone, I actually really appreciate this honestly. I love playing Ganondorf because of how he feels, not really for his character. I have sympathy for those who like him for his character. I'd hate it if Shulk (my favorite in the roster outside of Smash) didn't have the Monado Arts and the future vision counter. But I think it's good to slowly build on existing characters a couple of abilities at a time. That's a good compromise between the two types of fans...

...but also it's still ridiculous Ganondorf got his sword before Dead Man's Volley haha

I like Ganondorf as a character and I always really liked Ganon in Smash, so I like the direction they went with him, and despite a lot of the complaints Smash Ganon gets, Sakurai had to have done something right with him considering how disproportionally popular Ganondorf has been to play in Smash for a character that always been so competitively poor. It is nonetheless intriguing though to wonder the "what if" scenario of if he was passed over for someone else as a clone in Melee and then added as a newcomer in Brawl, how completely different he could have ended up.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Both.

1. Bowser's Castle (Mario)
2. Evershade Valley (Luigi's Mansion 2)
3. Altar of the Sunne/Moone (Pokémon Sun/Moon)
4. Holoseum (Custom Robo)
5. Void Soul (Kirby Star Allies)
6. Tower of Hera (Zelda: a Link Between Worlds)
7. Rice Beach (WarioLand)
8. Serenes Forest Altar (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance)
9. Golden Temple (Donkey Kong Returns)
10. Meta Crystal (Smash Bros.)

And:

1. Stakataka - Iron Defense - Sits still and functions as an extra pair of walls and a platform
2. Turtonator - Shell Trap - Similar to Wobbuffet in previous iterations, but deals major damage if you attack him from the wrong end
3. Sandyghast - Sand Tomb - Creates a sand pit, trapping people
4. Magikarp - Rage - Start off flopping around, but if he's taking a bit of a beating it'll evolve and return the favor
5. Victreebel - Swallow - Tries to eat you, similar to what it did with James in the anime
6. Xatu - Future Sight - Shines bright before disappearing. After 15 seconds or so, the spot where it used to be will explode
7. Drifloon - Levitate - Tries to abduct you, similar to the Beetle item
8. Trubbish - Sludge - Just moves around slowly. Poisons the area below him, hurting foes that'll touch it
9. Litwick - Will-o-wisp - Burns nearby enemies, dealing minor damage
10. Ditto - Transform - Turns into a level 3 CPU copy of the person summoning it

Alright then! We’ll do both!

Stages:
1. Bowser Kingdom (Super Mario Odyssey)

2. Ultra Space (Pokémon UltraSun & UltraMoon)

Changing Stage that travels to different Ultra Beast homeworlds. Whilst traveling the stage is set up like this “-__-“.
3. Mantine Surf (Pokémon UltraSun and UltraMoon)

Hear me out! The players fight atop several surfing Mantines. They are always lowering and raising themselves. There are also obstacles, such as Wailord, Tentacool, and Pyukumuku. Of course there are the big aerial jumps too.
4. Nintendo Badge Arcade
5. Tetris
6. Luiginary Works (Mario & Luigi: Dream Team)
7. Pushmo
8. The Divine Beasts (Appear throughout various Divine Beast)
9. Nintendo Land; fight on a train that stops at different attractions
10. The Desk from Smash 64’s opening.

I’ll do the Pokémon in another post. I have to cook dinner and charge my phone.

 

[Pyra]

Alright then! We’ll do both!

Stages:
1. Bowser Kingdom (Super Mario Odyssey)
View attachment 150166

Wait a second
Why didn't I think of this?
This is officially my number one most wanted stage for Ultimate. Thanks I love it

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Bowser's Castle (Super Mario Bros.)

Honestly, why has this not happened yet?

10 Stages (wants):

Bowser's Castle (duh) (Super Mario Bros.)
Altar of the Sun / Moon (Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon)
Clock Town (The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask)
Salmonid Smokeyard (Splatoon 2)
Fort Dragonfall (Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest)
Saturn Valley (Earthbound)
Gloomy Galleon (Donkey Kong 64)
Comet Observatory (Super Mario Galaxy)
FOUNTAIN OF DREAMS RETURNING
The Desk... you know, this one:

EDIT: NINJAD ON THE DESK

 

[_Sheik]

Bowser Kingdom would be neat!

If we do get a Xenoblade 2 rep, I hope they bring along Tantal as a stage. I fancy its great music, and it would make for a good snowy stage, which is pretty rare in Smash I think?

 

[Idon]

I like Ganondorf as a character and I always really liked Ganon in Smash, so I like the direction they went with him, and despite a lot of the complaints Smash Ganon gets, Sakurai had to have done something right with him considering how disproportionally popular Ganondorf has been to play in Smash for a character that always been so competitively poor. It is nonetheless intriguing though to wonder the "what if" scenario of if he was passed over for someone else as a clone in Melee and then added as a newcomer in Brawl, how completely different he could have ended up.

Yeah, well competitive viability does very little to affect a character's fanbase. In fact, being low-tier is probably a boon for that character's popularity due to the whole underdog factor.
In practically every fighting game, you'll find the trope of the "Big, slow, strong-man that hits hard" and you'll also find that they often have their fan followings regardless of how good they are (which they usually aren't unless their name rhymes with android kicksteen or crack-7).

That "what-if" scenario and Sakurai's whole phobia against alienating the current Smash fanbase is why I would always take a character to not be included in Smash for a while, then be doomed to an eternity of small gradual changes while still forever remaining as a template of some other character.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

The arena where you fight MechaBroodal or whatever or the area in that screenshot would be perfect.

Heck, they could even pull a Paper Mario and have you fight on the Gold Bowser head and the hanging platforms next to it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So question...

How many weeks do we have til release?

I'm thinking. What if we got one remix a week. How would that work with the series we have?

 

[Idon]

So question...

How many weeks do we have til release?

I'm thinking. What if we got one remix a week. How would that work with the series we have?

About 23 full weeks left.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Dude. The desk from Smash 64 would be AWESOME.

That needs to be a reality right now.

Can we get a stage ballot Sakurai? Cause I feel like the entire fandom would vote in the desk.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dude. The desk from Smash 64 would be AWESOME.

That needs to be a reality right now.

Can we get a stage ballot Sakurai? Cause I feel like the entire fandom would vote in the desk.

And of course a proper Bowser's Castle. Though not as much as that kick-ass desk~

 

[Fenriraga]

So question...

How many weeks do we have til release?

I'm thinking. What if we got one remix a week. How would that work with the series we have?

23 weeks remaining.

As of now, there are 31 series currently represented with fighters.

 

[Will]

And of course a proper Bowser's Castle. Though not as much as that kick-*** desk~

There better be a 64!Master Hand hazard.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Could you imagine if they randomly dropped a K.Rool remix and say nothing afterwards for months

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Which Bowser's Castle do people want? It's gone through countless iterations

 

[KingBroly]

What Bowser Castle do people want? It's gone through countless iterations

Odyssey

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Each 3D Mario has only had one stage so far though IIRC.

We already have New Donk.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I hope if Smash 7 builds off rather than rebooting, the Echo characters are allowed to diverge but that's me thinking waaaaaay too far ahead.

My 10 Stages

1. Cascade Kingdom (With T-Rex attacks)
2. Vah Medoh (If you hated Lylat cruise tilting wait til you get a load of this)
3. Bell Hill
4. Mine Cart Carnage
5. Gang Plank Galleon
6. Aether Foundation (With Rainbow Rocket raiding the place intermittently)
7. R.O.B. (Level is a Robotic Operating Buddy IRL)
8. Sander's Kitchen (Chibi Robo Stage)
9. Virgin Victory (Wonderful 101)
10. Phaaze (With Aurora unit attacks)

 

[cmbsfm]

Dude. The desk from Smash 64 would be AWESOME.

That needs to be a reality right now.

Can we get a stage ballot Sakurai? Cause I feel like the entire fandom would vote in the desk.

Why’d you have to bring this up? I’m sad now that this will probably never happen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

23 weeks remaining.

As of now, there are 31 series currently represented with fighters.

Minus Zelda, Metroid, Splatoon and Street Fighter cause we already have remixes of them, as well as retros like R.O.B And Game & Watch...

Minus the Miis...

24 series left...

Hmm....