Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

After this, Bowserlick, I'm going to laugh so hard if the next Grass starter is like Torterra and can't function in a Smash environment whatsoever and see you either try to backpedal or go out of your way to defend it regardless.

 

[Bowserlick]

After this, Bowserlick, I'm going to laugh so hard if the next Grass starter is like Torterra and can't function in a Smash environment whatsoever and see you either try to backpedal or go out of your way to defend it regardless.

Just as when you backpedaled on Ridley when it was shown that Sakurai really thought he was too big? That was funny.

I am predicting a Grass starter based on the pattern of three elemental starters that Sakurai already established.

 

[Zerp]

After this, Bowserlick, I'm going to laugh so hard if the next Grass starter is like Torterra and can't function in a Smash environment whatsoever and see you either try to backpedal or go out of your way to defend it regardless.

I'm completely and utterly neutral when it comes to grass starters (barring Sceptile, I unfortunately have a bit of negative bias against him), but how come Torterra wouldn't work? We already had , I don't see how something similar to Ivysaur's moveset but slower, heavier, and more powerful couldn't work for Torterra?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

but how come Torterra wouldn't work? We already had , I don't see how something similar to Ivysaur's moveset but slower, heavier, and more powerful couldn't work for Torterra?

Toreterra isn't physically mobile enough for all the movement Smash requires.

Ivysaur is.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

Toreterra isn't physically mobile enough for all the movement Smash requires.

Ivysaur is.

I don't know, a tanky version of little mac could be pretty interesting so long as they have a good enough recovery move to make them viable within the universe

 

[Aurane]

Out of all the Grass-Type starters, I'd prefer either Serperior or Decidueye to be playable.

For Grass-Types in general- Tsreena, Breloom and Roserade would be cool choices.

But the odds of either of them are very low. We'll likely get our new generation before the next Smash hits.

I don't know, a tanky version of little mac could be pretty interesting so long as they have a good enough recovery move to make them viable within the universe

I want to see Torterra box now.

Like get on two and beat people up with super sluggish punch combos.

Sakurai pls

 

[Deleted member]

I'm completely and utterly neutral when it comes to grass starters (barring Sceptile, I unfortunately have a bit of negative bias against him), but how come Torterra wouldn't work? We already had , I don't see how something similar to Ivysaur's moveset but slower, heavier, and more powerful couldn't work for Torterra?

You know those things that Ivysaur has that grow out of it's back? Vines?

Torterra doesn't have those.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Y'all toxic.

I don't know, a tanky version of little mac could be pretty interesting so long as they have a good enough recovery move to make them viable within the universe

People always talk of all the gameplay types we're missing in Smash, grappler being a big one, but I don't a literal Tank fits that bill. DK and Bowser are plenty tank like without having to be literally immovable.

 

[Bowserlick]

Quick search shows that Torterra used green energy in the anime to grab another pokemon. Add his mouth for either holding a weapon or grabbing and he is all set.

 

[Aurane]

Torterra would never get in over Empoleon anyways.

...

...you know, discussing Smash without actually playing Smash anymore is an interesting experience.

But you guys bore me now. I shall return to harass the next rage child who provokes the inner sarcastic beast within.

 

[Bowserlick]

Screenshot. Just to save when the Grass Pokemon gets in.

Sadness will bring out the tears, my xylem will handle the rest.

 

[Zerp]

Toreterra isn't physically mobile enough for all the movement Smash requires.

Ivysaur is.

Um well you see.... You're wrong because Torterra has a 2 jump stat in pokeathlon, see, he has CANONICAL mobility! /s


Point taken, I admittedly didn't think of how much slower than Ivysaur he'd have to be.

You know those things that Ivysaur has that grow out of it's back? Vines?

Torterra doesn't have those.

Looked it up and it turns out he actually does have those, but...

Spoiler

Only in one non-canon game

That is literally the only time the word "vine" comes up on Torterra's bulbapedia.

So, yeah, thinking more about it I think you're right that Torterra wouldn't work, Sakurai'd have to make up stuff like "he can grow trees to recover" or something like Bowser's Up-B to make him work, and that's probably a bit too out of character to be acceptable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Um well you see.... You're wrong because Torterra has a 2 jump stat in pokeathlon, see, he has CANONICAL mobility! /s


Point taken, I admittedly didn't think of how much slower than Ivysaur he'd have to be.

Looked it up and it turns out he actually does have those, but...

Spoiler

Only in one non-canon gameView attachment 133151
That is literally the only time the word "vine" comes up on Torterra's bulbapedia.

So, yeah, thinking more about it I think you're right that Torterra wouldn't work, Sakurai'd have to make up stuff like "he can grow trees to recover" or something like Bowser's Up-B to make him work, and that's probably a bit too out of character to be acceptable.

Well, Growth is a move, but so is Wood Hammer. I mean, while I don't think Torterra would work too well due to how slow it is(balance issues), bull****ting some moves isn't as bad. Something like using Wood Hammer in the air to give itself a lift could work. It'd be odd, though.

Also, probably another thing to note is that when Ivysaur got removed, they also removed all other Tether Recoveries that were Up B's. It's unknown if Ivysaur would've gotten a new Up B, but it appears that they found it unbalanced. Being you can't grab every edge with it, this makes sense. Tether Recoveries as Aerial Throw Commands works fine, as they're not inherent key recovery moves that most characters have.

 

[Deleted member]

Just as when you backpedaled on Ridley when it was shown that Sakurai really thought he was too big? That was funny.

I am predicting a Grass starter based on the pattern of three elemental starters that Sakurai already established.

Um well you see.... You're wrong because Torterra has a 2 jump stat in pokeathlon, see, he has CANONICAL mobility! /s


Point taken, I admittedly didn't think of how much slower than Ivysaur he'd have to be.

Looked it up and it turns out he actually does have those, but...

Spoiler

Only in one non-canon gameView attachment 133151
That is literally the only time the word "vine" comes up on Torterra's bulbapedia.

So, yeah, thinking more about it I think you're right that Torterra wouldn't work, Sakurai'd have to make up stuff like "he can grow trees to recover" or something like Bowser's Up-B to make him work, and that's probably a bit too out of character to be acceptable.

Not just mobility, but range of motion.
Ironically what Ash's Turtwig had that he had to get used to not having once evolving.

 

[Staarih]

It’s not like a Grass Pokemon can _never_ get in, a future gen ”poster boy” may very well be that of type and thus inherently fulfill the type triangle. But it’s wanting a Grass type just for the sake of filling up a pattern that doesn’t compute.

I’m also in the mind of ”any character can work” so Torterra, sure.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Point taken, I admittedly didn't think of how much slower than Ivysaur he'd have to be.

Speed isn't the issue.

Mobility is.

Torterra can't reasonably pick things up, use them, hold on to ledges, turn around easily, dodge in place or easily roll around someone.

Unlike Squirtle, Torterra is built like an actual tortoise. Even with plant powers and immense strength can you imagine Torterra doing those more mobile maneuvers?

 

[Deleted member]

Speed isn't the issue.

Mobility is.

Torterra can't reasonably pick things up, use them, hold on to ledges, turn around easily, dodge in place or easily roll around someone.

Unlike Squirtle, Torterra is built like an actual tortoise. Even with plant powers and immense strength can you imagine Torterra doing those more mobile maneuvers?

A giant tortoise with a tree and mountains on it's back, too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

A giant tortoise with a tree and mountains on it's back, too.

Come to think of it, isn't Torterra kind of huge?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Come to think of it, isn't Torterra kind of huge?

Eeyup. I mean, he's not severely bigger than Bowser, but still.

 

[Mythra]

Inb4 a Grass Pokémon makes it...
...but is Kartana.

Im in for an UB in Smash.

Come to think of it, isn't Torterra kind of huge?

Dude's 2.2m
I see it as a crouched Bowser with the height of Ganondorf.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I see it as a crouched Bowser with the height of Ganondorf.

Holy crap.

Is that including the tree?

 

[Bowserlick]

The only thing problematic about Torterra is the tree. Might make for weird falls. Everything else works.

 

[Mythra]

Holy crap.

Is that including the tree?

Yep, Ganondorf is around 2.3m btw.
Heights aren't a big deal in Smash sometimes () but Torterra would be huge anyway.

Slow as hell with super armor would be fun tho.

 

[N3ON]

I don't expect a Gen VII to be included at this point, though it's possible if the port (if we get a port) had its characters chosen last year, or even the year previous. However in the next generation, and for every following generation I expect the grass starter to get a disproportionate amount of Smash demand due to its typing, should it prove feasible.

I don't really lump Decidueye in with this however, as that Pokemon had the most popularity (of the three) in and of itself and free from a Smash context. So it translating to the highest demand for Smash makes sense regardless of the typing implications. This would apply to a character like Sceptile though, as in most contexts, and prior to this last Smash, Blaziken was the obvious frontrunner.

 

[Aurane]

Inb4 a Grass Pokémon makes it...
...but is Kartana.

Im in for an UB in Smash.

I'd be totally cool with this.

Kartana or UB-Adhesive.

 

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinion:

Smash 5 should be a reboot of the franchise, taking things back to root, scrapping a lot of what's been built up and starting again to try fresh new ideas (as well as having tighter and more competitive gameplay).

The roster should focus on celebrating gaming history instead of just Nintendo's (though all characters need to have made an appearance on Nintendo consoles). Meaning, a lot of the obscure or less relevant Nintendo characters like Shulk, WiiFit Trainer, or the 12+ FE characters, get the axe, but prominent and iconic 3rd party characters who are pillars of gaming or classic icons like Ryu, Megaman, and Cloud come back.

All characters should have their movesets totally redone redone to try new takes on them.

Just off the top of my head, roster should be something along these lines I'd say:

From here on, future installments can further expand on additions from old favorites, but totally redone with brand new movesets just like everyone you see up there^^^^.


Reasoning for this:
-Roster clutter
Too many characters in the roster, and expanding it further just adds more clutter, too many characters with movesets that just don't work, could be done better, or just don't make much sense.
-The gameplay is getting stale
Smash 4 still doesn't capitalize on the potential of the genre. And I don't mean advanced techs like Wavedashing or whatever, but a lot more could be done to make the game both exciting, and accessible imo. Slowing down the gameplay, or further tweaking things from the established formula isn't enough anymore. Even when comparing simple things from Melee, such as the stage variety and such, 4 feels severly lacking in that department, with things being too gimmick heavy, yet having very simple layouts. Stages like Brinstar Depths and Pokefloats have gone totally out the window, despite being some of the more interesting in terms of design.
-What more could you possibly add?
Smash 4 basically pushed the limits in terms of fanservice and what could be added. Plain and simple, nothing more can be done from here to really wow people anymore. Continuing onward with the same routine from here on out will only draw the series stale and really hurt it. Moreover, adding even more content on top of what currently exists, will not only further clutter the game, but also increase the workload exponentially. Starting anew once more gives people a chance to get people excited again to see their favorites return, and expanding the scope of what Smash is, allows for more iconic franchises to get the spotlight, rather than dig deep into the obscure.

I know this is gonna be massively unpopular ITT, so... let the ****storm commence:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Unpopular opinion:

Smash 5 should be a reboot of the franchise, taking things back to root, scrapping a lot of what's been built up and starting again to try fresh new ideas (as well as having tighter and more competitive gameplay).

The roster should focus on celebrating gaming history instead of just Nintendo's (though all characters need to have made an appearance on Nintendo consoles). Meaning, a lot of the obscure or less relevant Nintendo characters like Shulk, WiiFit Trainer, or the 12+ FE characters, get the axe, but prominent and iconic 3rd party characters who are pillars of gaming or classic icons like Ryu, Megaman, and Cloud come back.

All characters should have their movesets totally redone redone to try new takes on them.

Just off the top of my head, roster should be something along these lines I'd say:

View attachment 133156

From here on, future installments can further expand on additions from old favorites, but totally redone with brand new movesets just like everyone you see up there^^^^.


Reasoning for this:
-Roster clutter
Too many characters in the roster, and expanding it further just adds more clutter, too many characters with movesets that just don't work, could be done better, or just don't make much sense.
-The gameplay is getting stale
Smash 4 still doesn't capitalize on the potential of the genre. And I don't mean advanced techs like Wavedashing or whatever, but a lot more could be done to make the game both exciting, and accessible imo. Slowing down the gameplay, or further tweaking things from the established formula isn't enough anymore. Even when comparing simple things from Melee, such as the stage variety and such, 4 feels severly lacking in that department, with things being too gimmick heavy, yet having very simple layouts. Stages like Brinstar Depths and Pokefloats have gone totally out the window, despite being some of the more interesting in terms of design.
-What more could you possibly add?
Smash 4 basically pushed the limits in terms of fanservice and what could be added. Plain and simple, nothing more can be done from here to really wow people anymore. Continuing onward with the same routine from here on out will only draw the series stale and really hurt it. Moreover, adding even more content on top of what currently exists, will not only further clutter the game, but also increase the workload exponentially. Starting anew once more gives people a chance to get people excited again to see their favorites return, and expanding the scope of what Smash is, allows for more iconic franchises to get the spotlight, rather than dig deep into the obscure.

I know this is gonna be massively unpopular ITT, so... let the ****storm commence:

*looks at response to MVCI roster* Sure, cut all the fanfavs in a game that exists as fanservice, that'll go over well with the public

 

[COMMUNIST JOE]

What if Smash for Switch never releases? What if Nintendo never planned for it to come out for Switch?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Unpopular opinion:

Smash 5 should be a reboot of the franchise, taking things back to root, scrapping a lot of what's been built up and starting again to try fresh new ideas (as well as having tighter and more competitive gameplay).

The roster should focus on celebrating gaming history instead of just Nintendo's (though all characters need to have made an appearance on Nintendo consoles). Meaning, a lot of the obscure or less relevant Nintendo characters like Shulk, WiiFit Trainer, or the 12+ FE characters, get the axe, but prominent and iconic 3rd party characters who are pillars of gaming or classic icons like Ryu, Megaman, and Cloud come back.

All characters should have their movesets totally redone redone to try new takes on them.

Just off the top of my head, roster should be something along these lines I'd say:

View attachment 133156

From here on, future installments can further expand on additions from old favorites, but totally redone with brand new movesets just like everyone you see up there^^^^.


Reasoning for this:
-Roster clutter
Too many characters in the roster, and expanding it further just adds more clutter, too many characters with movesets that just don't work, could be done better, or just don't make much sense.
-The gameplay is getting stale
Smash 4 still doesn't capitalize on the potential of the genre. And I don't mean advanced techs like Wavedashing or whatever, but a lot more could be done to make the game both exciting, and accessible imo. Slowing down the gameplay, or further tweaking things from the established formula isn't enough anymore. Even when comparing simple things from Melee, such as the stage variety and such, 4 feels severly lacking in that department, with things being too gimmick heavy, yet having very simple layouts. Stages like Brinstar Depths and Pokefloats have gone totally out the window, despite being some of the more interesting in terms of design.
-What more could you possibly add?
Smash 4 basically pushed the limits in terms of fanservice and what could be added. Plain and simple, nothing more can be done from here to really wow people anymore. Continuing onward with the same routine from here on out will only draw the series stale and really hurt it. Moreover, adding even more content on top of what currently exists, will not only further clutter the game, but also increase the workload exponentially. Starting anew once more gives people a chance to get people excited again to see their favorites return, and expanding the scope of what Smash is, allows for more iconic franchises to get the spotlight, rather than dig deep into the obscure.

I know this is gonna be massively unpopular ITT, so... let the ****storm commence:

I do agree that Smash needs a smaller roster in the next game to prevent having a roster too big and cluttered to balance well, but honestly, that roster is just awful.

It's missing so many characters that aren't just Smash staples, but iconic characters outside of it, like Luigi, Peach, Zelda and Ganondorf among a few others. Also, removing all retro characters? Why?

Also, only one first-party newcomer? No ARMS? No FE newcomer? No new Pokemon? Nothing from an obscure and/or retro game?

Speaking of FE, how the hell are its characters "obscure or less relevant" when the franchise has turned into one of Nintendo's most popular and profitable IPs? Especially since the characters in Smash have become some of the most popular FE characters as well, be it because of Smash or not. There's also no way we won't get a FE newcomer from the most recent FE because that's a pretty noticeable pattern that occured in the Smash games; Roy for Melee, Ike for Brawl, Robin and Lucina for Smash 4 and Corrin for Smash 4's DLC.

Basically, your idea of cutting down the roster is fine and honestly, I wouldn't mind it, but that roster would likely rival MvCI in terms of fan dissappointment and missed opportunities.

 

[Zem-raj]

What if Smash for Switch never releases? What if Nintendo never planned for it to come out for Switch?

What? There's no way they'd not release a game on the Nintendo Switch. Nintendo Switch is a home console that happens to have handheld capabilities and functions. The series has been traditionally developed for home consoles, only Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS has broken this trend, and allowed players to play via handheld where ever they want. Nintendo Switch has best of both worlds.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What if Smash for Switch never releases? What if Nintendo never planned for it to come out for Switch?

Smash is a really big IP for Nintendo. There's just no way it would skip a home console, imo.

In fact, I'm so confident of this that, if the Switch never gets a Smash game, I'll eat both of my shoes after showering them in Carolina Reaper powder.

 

[Deleted member]

I do agree that Smash needs a smaller roster in the next game to prevent having a roster too big and cluttered to balance well, but honestly, that roster is just awful.

It's missing so many characters that aren't just Smash staples, but iconic characters outside of it, like Luigi, Peach, Zelda and Ganondorf among a few others. Also, removing all retro characters? Why?

Also, only one first-party newcomer? No ARMS? No FE newcomer? No new Pokemon? Nothing from an obscure and/or retro game?

Speaking of FE, how the hell are its characters "obscure or less relevant" when the franchise has turned into one of Nintendo's most popular and profitable IPs? Especially since the characters in Smash have become some of the most popular FE characters as well, be it because of Smash or not. There's also no way we won't get a FE newcomer from the most recent FE because that's a pretty noticeable pattern that occured in the Smash games; Roy for Melee, Ike for Brawl, Robin and Lucina for Smash 4 and Corrin for Smash 4's DLC.

Basically, your idea of cutting down the roster is fine and honestly, I wouldn't mind it, but that roster would likely rival MvCI in terms of fan dissappointment and missed opportunities.

Take a closer look at the roster, and there's one character for every franchise except Mario and Pokemon (for obvious reasons), and Marth is right there.

You mean you want MOST FE characters to come back, and on top of that add more?

The point of a reboot is that everyone is getting redone. You start from scratch, all over again. Thus, characters like Peach, Luigi, Ike, etc... would all show up in Smash 6. As far as Retro characters go, you've got Pac-Man right there, as well, as many characters from the N64 back, which is what Retro is nowdays.

Also, I didn't say it was the exact roster, just something "along those lines" it's not even a prediction, just an opinion.

If Smash 5 is Smash 4 but with even MORE stuff, I have no reason to get invested or even care. 4 already delivered on all I could want in terms of content more or less, and it and Brawl both have character mods for the people who wanna turn Smash into MUGEN and have 100+ characters. I want something different, and something fresh. The only way I'm gonna bother with the next installment, is if it goes in that direction, AND fixes the gameplay.

*looks at response to MVCI roster* Sure, cut all the fanfavs in a game that exists as fanservice, that'll go over well with the public

SF4 and Guilty Gear Xrd did just fine.

 

[Schnee117]

SF4 and Guilty Gear Xrd did just fine.

Neither game did the equivalent of cutting the X-Men, Dr Doom and a chunk of other favourites.

 

[Deleted member]

Neither game did the equivalent of cutting the X-Men, Dr Doom and a chunk of other favourites.

And neither am I?

C.Falcon, Yoshi, Fox, DK, Samus, etc... are all present.

And Xrd did cut away fan favorites. Dizzy, Baiken, Anji, Robo Ky, Jam, etc... were all missing in Sign. Only like 1/4 of the cast from XX showed up.

 

[A Distant Demon]

At school so can't really go into too much detail , but TLDR smash isnt guilty gear, street fighter or MvC. (even then, guilty gear is so niche compared to smash, the comparisons get a little wonky)

Looking at smash as a traditional fighting game is a bit disingenuous

Smash is a game 90% about characters, with the other 10% being about having wacky un with poke balls, dragoons, and ****.

 

[Deleted member]

At school so can't really go into too much detail , but TLDR smash isnt guilty gear, street fighter or MvC. (even then, guilty gear is so niche compared to smash, the comparisons get a little wonky)

Looking at smash as a traditional fighting game is a bit disingenuous

Smash is a game 90% about characters, with the other 10% being about having wacky un with poke balls, dragoons, and ****.

The comparisons to Guilty Gear are only being made cause MvC:I was brought up.

Look, it's very simple, but a reboot is imminent sooner or later. Series can't keep expanding like this, it's unreasonable, and it's common for franchises to reboot when things get stale. Smash is no exception.

The only people who care about the super obscure characters who've been in since Melee or their favorite Nintendo character from Y franchise are Smash fans, but the truth is, 90% of Smash fans will buy a Smash game regardless, even if they object to certain choices made. The rest of the people don't care, nor get excited about expanding the roster, or franchise representation or any of that. In fact, the majority of gamers thoroughly object to the CURRENT number of FE characters and Pokemon. Adding in Spring Man, or Inklings, or ANOTHER FE protag or Pokemon isn't gonna get most people excited.

However, adding characters like Lara Croft, Doom Guy, or Simon will.

Proof is in the pudding. While half of this forum was ******** over Cloud or Ryu getting added in, the rest of the internet was losing their **** over their reveals. THOSE people won't care in the slightest if you cut Sheik or Falco or Shulk. They're happy just as long as the characters they most recognize are in. Those are the people who need to be convinced to buy the next game, NOT Smadh fans.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The comparisons to Guilty Gear are only being made cause MvC:I was brought up.

Except it's still a bad comparison. MvC is a good comparison because that game sells itself on all the characters from Marvel and Capcom, meaning if you're a fan if either, you'll have characters you like to look forward to. Smash sold itself on being a fighter with Nintendo characters. Guilty Gear sold itself on it's OWN characters and isn't a crossover. Hell, ArcSys is currently working on a crossover fighter and Guilty Gear isn't even on it
EDIT: Now that I read the rest of your ****posting I realized you're full of ****. The franchise is INCREDIBLY popular with casual gamers already and the sales for the franchise are very impressive. The first game sold 1.4 million in Japan and 2.3 in the US, Melee sold 7 million units worldwide, Brawl sold 1.524 million units in Japan as of March 30 2008 and sold 1.4 million units in it's first week in the US, the 3DS game sold over a million copies in it's first weekend in Japan and as of October 2014 sold more than 3.22 million units worldwide and the Wii U version sold 3.39 million worldwide in 2 months, beating the sales of Mario Kart 8, which made the Wii U sales profitable. All these sales are from people who bought the games, meaning that they played it and liked characters they played as. Cutting a HUGE chunk has a 100% chance of cutting characters people loved to play as. Roy, Wolf and Mewtwo weren't asked for until they got cut

 

[Schnee117]

And neither am I?

You're cutting Luigi, Peach, Diddy, Jigglypuff, Ness, Ganondorf, Zelda, Charizard, Ike, Game and Watch as well as the ballot character.

Tell me again how you're not doing the equivalent of cutting the X-Men, Dr Doom and the likes of Vergil, Wesker and Akuma.

Smash is a game 90% about characters

So is MvC. Being a traditional fighter doesn't change that a large part of the series is about the characters.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

Unpopular opinion:

Smash 5 should be a reboot of the franchise, taking things back to root, scrapping a lot of what's been built up and starting again to try fresh new ideas (as well as having tighter and more competitive gameplay).

The roster should focus on celebrating gaming history instead of just Nintendo's (though all characters need to have made an appearance on Nintendo consoles). Meaning, a lot of the obscure or less relevant Nintendo characters like Shulk, WiiFit Trainer, or the 12+ FE characters, get the axe, but prominent and iconic 3rd party characters who are pillars of gaming or classic icons like Ryu, Megaman, and Cloud come back.

All characters should have their movesets totally redone redone to try new takes on them.

Just off the top of my head, roster should be something along these lines I'd say:

View attachment 133156

From here on, future installments can further expand on additions from old favorites, but totally redone with brand new movesets just like everyone you see up there^^^^.


Reasoning for this:
-Roster clutter
Too many characters in the roster, and expanding it further just adds more clutter, too many characters with movesets that just don't work, could be done better, or just don't make much sense.
-The gameplay is getting stale
Smash 4 still doesn't capitalize on the potential of the genre. And I don't mean advanced techs like Wavedashing or whatever, but a lot more could be done to make the game both exciting, and accessible imo. Slowing down the gameplay, or further tweaking things from the established formula isn't enough anymore. Even when comparing simple things from Melee, such as the stage variety and such, 4 feels severly lacking in that department, with things being too gimmick heavy, yet having very simple layouts. Stages like Brinstar Depths and Pokefloats have gone totally out the window, despite being some of the more interesting in terms of design.
-What more could you possibly add?
Smash 4 basically pushed the limits in terms of fanservice and what could be added. Plain and simple, nothing more can be done from here to really wow people anymore. Continuing onward with the same routine from here on out will only draw the series stale and really hurt it. Moreover, adding even more content on top of what currently exists, will not only further clutter the game, but also increase the workload exponentially. Starting anew once more gives people a chance to get people excited again to see their favorites return, and expanding the scope of what Smash is, allows for more iconic franchises to get the spotlight, rather than dig deep into the obscure.

I know this is gonna be massively unpopular ITT, so... let the ****storm commence:

I agree with this. I love Smash 4. It's my favourite in the series, and one of my favourites games of all time. If a Smash 4 port with more content is announced, I wouldn't object, but if Smash 5 - a completely new game - is announced and it's just gonna do more of the same then I probably wouldn't be excited.

I've actually been thinking a lot about this myself too, and even discussing with friends. As much of a bummer as it would be to lose a lot of characters, I personally would love to see all these characters be revamped and redone to the point where they feel FRESH and new, and hey, if Nintendo wanted to, DLC is ALWAYS an option. A smaller roster potentially means an equal amount of attention given to each character. I want to see every character have an alternate costume, and for everyone to have a home stage. I want a sense of balance without feeling like the devs are just trying to cram in as much as they possibly can.

This goes for marketing and what not too, perhaps doing individual character gameplay trailers in order to give each character as much promotion and attention. Smash 4 put so much emphasis on the newcomers (for obvious reasons) that the rest of the roster felt insignificant in comparison to the new blood (which also carries into the newcomer movesets having so much more personality).

I understand that Smash sells on its characters and the buttload of content it offers, and seeing so many fan favourite characters gone would make a lot of the Smash community upset, but as it's been said many times before, this constant expansion cannot go on forever, and when the time does come for Smash to lighten up, the best way to do so would be the reintroduce the series in a brand new light.

...at least that's how I see it, but what do I know?

 

[Deleted member]

Except it's still a bad comparison. MvC is a good comparison because that game sells itself on all the characters from Marvel and Capcom, meaning if you're a fan if either, you'll have characters you like to look forward to. Smash sold itself on being a fighter with Nintendo characters. Guilty Gear sold itself on it's OWN characters and isn't a crossover. Hell, ArcSys is currently working on a crossover fighter and Guilty Gear isn't even on it
EDIT: Now that I read the rest of your ****posting I realized you're full of ****. The franchise is INCREDIBLY popular with casual gamers already and the sales for the franchise are very impressive. The first game sold 1.4 million in Japan and 2.3 in the US, Melee sold 7 million units worldwide, Brawl sold 1.524 million units in Japan as of March 30 2008 and sold 1.4 million units in it's first week in the US, the 3DS game sold over a million copies in it's first weekend in Japan and as of October 2014 sold more than 3.22 million units worldwide and the Wii U version sold 3.39 million worldwide in 2 months, beating the sales of Mario Kart 8, which made the Wii U sales profitable. All these sales are from people who bought the games, meaning that they played it and liked characters they played as. Cutting a HUGE chunk has a 100% chance of cutting characters people loved to play as. Roy, Wolf and Mewtwo weren't asked for until they got cut

You're cutting Luigi, Peach, Diddy, Jigglypuff, Ness, Ganondorf, Zelda, Charizard, Ike, Game and Watch as well as the ballot character.

Tell me again how you're not doing the equivalent of cutting the X-Men, Dr Doom and the likes of Vergil, Wesker and Akuma.



So is MvC. Being a traditional fighter doesn't change that a large part of the series is about the characters.

Yes, but you've both ignored the core of my argument.

Where do you take the series from here?

What more could you possibly do to get the majority of gamers excited? Not just core Smash fans, but gamers at large. Because let's be honest, it's only a subsection of Smash fans who obsess over roster entries. The majority of people aren't gonna get excited over Spring Man, or yet ANOTHER FE protag. In fact, most would be more disappointed to see Cloud or Ryu not make it back. How do you spark interest in that crowd? What do you do to distinguish this Smash from the last? Why should people bother with Smash 5 when if it's just an upgrade, it'd be less exciting than 4?

The fact of the matter is, the only people who are invested in seeing their personal favorites return, are hard core Smash fans, and in fact, only a portion of them. Luigi for example has been missing from a majority of MARIO games, and you honestly don't hear much of a fuss over it. If him, or Puff, or Ness go missing when you're doing a full reboot, where everyone is getting totally redone, most people aren't gonna care that much, especially if the most popular and iconic characters (like Fox, C.Falcon, and Samus) make it back. They'll be more excited about a fresh new start I'd argue, and curious about all the new interpretations of the returning characters. Because again, it's a complete redo. Ever wanted to see Mario don a Hammer and have more acrobatic moves? Here's that chance. In fact, I'm sure many would openly welcome the idea of certain characters getting a much needed redo. Plus, it's not like any of those characters are totally off the cards, they can always be added in as DLC or more importantly, used to hype up future entries. Thereby maintained hype where stagnation would have settled in otherwise.

People seem to forget that most people wants a fun game with things to get excited about. Not a wish fullfillment MUGEN-sized roster screen full of obscure characters.