Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh my lord, I thought I was the only one who noticed that.

Speaking of that video, while it started good, the more it goes on, the more Zero just get sidetracked or get angry at minor stuff that don't matter and just make the video longer for nothing (the Pichu & Wario section in particular were horrible). I ended up skipping some portion of it to get to the good stuff.

While I do like the Smash team is going to ask pro player help to balance the game, I hope they also don't do everything the pro players ask, or else we will have Melee HD & Ridley Edition on our hand.

Those gags are great. I hate Bowser Jr but I absolutely adored the little gag with the lollipop too. And Wolf playing fetch with DHD was great

 

[Galgatha]

Those gags are great. I hate Bowser Jr but I absolutely adored the little gag with the lollipop too. And Wolf playing fetch with DHD was great

What's the problem with Bowser Jr? XD

 

[Metal Shop X]

Those gags are great. I hate Bowser Jr but I absolutely adored the little gag with the lollipop too. And Wolf playing fetch with DHD was great

Yeah, I get he is a pro player and only care about gameplay and waifu. But come on, not every trailers need to be ZSS combo, some can just show the character doing one or two new moves, or jokes like you described.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'd rather the Smash series retain the character it's always had in Pics of the Day and videos than just be some boring ''WATCH EM WOMBO COMBO!" That's just lame. Leave that **** for other fighting game series.

 

[Zinith]

ZeRo completely missed things in the Yoshi video that are blatantly obvious, such as the egg bounce and Down B Armor.

But he did point out his new pummel animation. Oh, Bravo ZeRo, bravo

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'd rather the Smash series retain the character it's always had in Pics of the Day and videos than just be some boring ''WATCH EM WOMBO COMBO!" That's just lame. Leave that **** for other fighting game series.

"You will take 5 seconds of the autocombo and level 3 and you will like it" Bamco probably

ZeRo completely missed things in the Yoshi video that are blatantly obvious, such as the egg bounce and Down B Armor.

But he did point out his new pummel animation. Oh, Bravo ZeRo, bravo

Reminds me how D1 needed to watch the Sonic video 5 times before catching the new dash attack as he was too busy jamming to Green Hill

 

[Octorockandroll]

ZeRo completely missed things in the Yoshi video that are blatantly obvious, such as the egg bounce and Down B Armor.

But he did point out his new pummel animation. Oh, Bravo ZeRo, bravo

The down b armor yes, but he definitely noticed the egg bounce thing

 

[Metal Shop X]

ZeRo completely missed things in the Yoshi video that are blatantly obvious, such as the egg bounce and Down B Armor.

But he did point out his new pummel animation. Oh, Bravo ZeRo, bravo

Somewhat yeah, if it wasn't for someone in the chat pointing out Yoshi eggs bounce, he would have probably just called Yoshi trailer a waste of time for 5-10 minutes and then move on.

Pro-analysis right there.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Bayo is honestly the only fighter I can think of that combos is almost necessary to show some combos in her video, because she's built for them, since you know her genre is all about combo-ing.

MAYBE Ryu, but I've never felt or thought of Ryu as a combo fiend even in the Street Fighter series.

 

[Curious Villager]

I may be wrong, but doesn't the Japanese website usually update first? (at least back during the pic of the day and probably the Brawl Dojo.)

Has that been checked yet? Guess I'll take a look...

 

[DYED]

ZeRo completely missed things in the Yoshi video that are blatantly obvious, such as the egg bounce and Down B Armor.

But he did point out his new pummel animation. Oh, Bravo ZeRo, bravo

I watched his stream from two days ago, and he kept saying that that new Ryu thing of always turning towards his opponent in 1 vs 1 matches was a glitch. The chat kept screaming "NOT A GLITCH BRO" but he didn't read it and kept saying it.
That was fun.

 

[Galgatha]

While I do like the Smash team is going to ask pro player help to balance the game, I hope they also don't do everything the pro players ask, or else we will have Melee HD & Ridley Edition on our hand.

I have to agree with you on this. While I really enjoy the competitive side of Smash, I also enjoy Smash in it's entirety. There are some aspects in the behavior of people in competitive scene that I feel, if Sakurai listens completely to them, would ruin Smash for what it really is, an absolutely great game for pick up and play with family and friends as well as a highly competitive fighter game.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh the Japanese site has been updated I think. At least it has a different post

https://www.smashbros.com/ja_JP/blog/index.html

Edit: Oh, never mind, It's probably something else...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I watched his stream from two days ago, and he kept saying that that new Ryu thing of always turning towards his opponent in 1 vs 1 matches was a glitch. The chat kept screaming "NOT A GLITCH BRO" but he didn't read it and kept saying it.
That was fun.

I know he got invited to the invitational and had a few hours to train but did he not watch the Direct? lmao

 

[Octorockandroll]

Somewhat yeah, if it wasn't for someone in the chat pointing out Yoshi eggs bounce, he would have probably just called Yoshi trailer a waste of time for 5-10 minutes and then move on.

Pro-analysis right there.

Well let's be fair here, it was the Yoshi trailer after all

I know he got invited to the invitational and had a few hours to train but did he not watch the Direct? lmao

From this and what I've seen from other people who were there I don't think any of them did. They may have just been backstage practicing.

 

[PSIGuy]

The Japanese site has a blog post explaining that you can try out the demo at some games conference in Japan called RAGE, I think. There was a livestream of some matches last night from it.

 

[DYED]

I know he got invited to the invitational and had a few hours to train but did he not watch the Direct? lmao

Seems like it.
It was really weird. I guess he was practicing through the whole thing instead of watching it?

 

[Zinith]

Well let's be fair here, it was the Yoshi trailer after all

You're barking up the wrong tree here...

 

[L9999]

Oh my lord, I thought I was the only one who noticed that.

Speaking of that video, while it started good, the more it goes on, the more Zero just get sidetracked or get angry at minor stuff that don't matter and just make the video longer for nothing (the Pichu & Wario section in particular were horrible). I ended up skipping some portion of it to get to the good stuff.

While I do like the Smash team is going to ask pro player help to balance the game, I hope they also don't do everything the pro players ask, or else we will have Melee HD & Ridley Edition on our hand.

If it weren't for the pro players we would still have tripping, hitstun cancelling, unpunishable airdodging among other degenerative mechanics that ruin casual play as much as competitive. If you watch the Melee pro interviews their opinion is just as valid as that of you and are very civil about it, but **** the top players who understand the game right? The ones who are truly toxic about mechanics are actually casual players who watch the combo videos and don't know what the devil they are talking about.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Seems like it.
It was really weird. I guess he was practicing through the whole thing instead of watching it?

I mean, I understand the priorities but now that I think about it the only person I saw commentate on the direct itself was D1 who then got shown the character trailers and had to leave

 

[Galgatha]

The Japanese site has a blog post explaining that you can try out the demo at some games conference in Japan called RAGE, I think. There was a livestream of some matches last night from it.

Do you know if they have any of that gameplay up on youtube?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If it weren't for the pro players we would still have tripping, hitstun cancelling, unpunishable airdodging among other degenerative mechanics that ruin casual play as much as competitive. If you watch the Melee pro interviews their opinion is just as valid as that of you and are very civil about it, but **** the top players who understand the game right? The ones who are truly toxic about mechanics are actually casual players who watch the combo videos and don't know what they devil the are talking about.

lmfao where did this come from? First of all, casual fans hated tripping too, second, the criticism was directed mostly at Zero for whining the game still kept casual fans in mind by having fun moments in the character trailers, third, the competitive player base isn't even always in the right as the game isn't meant to be understood in a specific mindset and finally, where do you see casual fans complaining about combos? That really gets me as casual fans love dumb **** like The Salt is Real. Especially as the comparison doesn't make sense, "The game is also meant for casuals, I hate how the top player keeps ******** about fun little jokes and references or Samus having smaller boobs" "WELL THE REAL TOXICITY ARE CASUALS WHO LOOK AT COMBO VIDEOS!" I just don't get it

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yes because sakurai has clearly shown that is a character does not have a future he is very likely to not put them in.

View attachment 148792

you guys

Now call Assist Trophies Portal Warriors and watch people get hype.

 

[DYED]

Probably someone already pointed it out, but since I have all the time in the world I decided to take note of everytime a newcomer trailer was released for Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate so far.

This is what came out:

June 2013 [E3 2013] (Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Mega Man)
December 2013 (Rosalina and Luma)
February 2014 (Little Mac)
April 2014 (Greninja, Charizard)
June 2014 (Palutena, Dark Pit, Pacman)
July 2014 (Robin, Lucina)
August 2014 (Shulk)
October 2014 (Bowser Jr.)
November 2014 (Duck Hunt)

Except for four months, there was a new reveal every month from December 2013 up until the release of the game.
And ... That's it, heh.

I just thought it was interesting, and that it could be considered as proof to the theory that will get a new newcomer (almost?) every month until Ultimate releases. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

 

[L9999]

lmfao where did this come from? First of all, casual fans hated tripping too, second, the criticism was directed mostly at Zero for whining the game still kept casual fans in mind by having fun moments in the character trailers, third, the competitive player base isn't even always in the right as the game isn't meant to be understood in a specific mindset and finally, where do you see casual fans complaining about combos? That really gets me as casual fans love dumb **** like The Salt is Real. Especially as the comparison doesn't make sense, "The game is also meant for casuals, I hate how the top player keeps ******** about fun little jokes and references or Samus having smaller boobs" "WELL THE REAL TOXICITY ARE CASUALS WHO LOOK AT COMBO VIDEOS!" I just don't get it

And that is the reason why Brawl exists. Where I said casuals complain about combo videos? If you knew how to read you would know I refer to those kind of players who get hyped watching Melee combos and say L-Cancelling should be back, without any thought on the implications. L-Cancel being a totally ******** mechanic which only justification of existing is cutting lag, which you could do directly to aerial attacks and what Smash 5 did. No need to break your fingers, anyone can play this game.

 

[GrownManJones]

Since Zero and his input is the topic of discussion at the moment I want to voice my support for Waveland off a ledge, slightly more hitstun and Wavedash.

I'll never understand the arguments against them. They add movement to the game and do not affect casual play at all. It only effects play at higher and higher levels. Let's be honest, most of us would never be pro or not no matter how complex or simple the game is.

That said the game is already amazing I cant wait for it as is. People here seriously undervalue how many people want these movement options and honestly don't even understand why they are good or bad. People act like a Sm4sh+ Melee is a bad thing. There's a reason it has so many sponsors and players.

 

[DJ3DS]

I got bored so attempted to organise the ultimate characters in order of how excited I am for them in the new game:




ultzelda:

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Probably someone already pointed it out, but since I have all the time in the world I decided to take note of everytime a newcomer trailer was released for Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate so far.

This is what came out:

June 2013 [E3 2013] (Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Mega Man)
December 2013 (Rosalina and Luma)
February 2014 (Little Mac)
April 2014 (Greninja, Charizard)
June 2014 (Palutena, Dark Pit, Pacman)
July 2014 (Robin, Lucina)
August 2014 (Shulk)
October 2014 (Bowser Jr.)
November 2014 (Duck Hunt)

Except for four months, there was a new reveal every month from December 2013 up until the release of the game.
And ... That's it, heh.

I just thought it was interesting, and that it could be considered as proof to the theory that will get a new newcomer (almost?) every month until Ultimate releases. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

I'm sorry but that's not every month lol (unless you're going by 30 days in which case u don't know the exact dates).

However unless we are receiving way less newcomers than imagined or most are kept secret, one a month seems about right (July, August, September, October, November, December, so 6 + any hidden characters. Maybe give or take a month and have 4-5 + any hidden characters).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And that is the reason why Brawl exists. Where I said casuals complain about combo videos? If you knew how to read you would know I refer to those kind of players who get hyped watching Melee combos and say L-Cancelling should be back, without any thought on the implications. L-Cancel being a totally ******** mechanic which only justification of existing is cutting lag, which you could do directly to aerial attacks and what Smash 5 did. No need to break your fingers, anyone can play this game.

No. Brawl exists because Sakurai went all "YOU'RE RUINING MY VISION" as he ultimately views Smash as a party game, which not only is a perfectly fine opinion, but one he clearly doesn't agree with anymore.

The ones who are truly toxic about mechanics are actually casual players who watch the combo videos and don't know what the devil they are talking about.

I can read as this is what you said. Though then again, you can't exactly read either as you interpretted "I hate how Zero thinks everything should be competitive focused based on his reactions and that's why top players shouldn't always get what they went" as "**** THE TOP PLAYERS THEY CAN EAT ****"

No need to use slurs to pretend you're cool either

Since Zero and his input is the topic of discussion at the moment I want to voice my support for Waveland off a ledge, slightly more hitstun and Wavedash.

I'll never understand the arguments against them. They add movement to the game and do not affect casual play at all. It only effects play at higher and higher levels. Let's be honest, most of us would never be pro or not no matter how complex or simple the game is.

That said the game is already amazing I cant wait for it as is. People here seriously undervalue how many people want these movement options and honestly don't even understand why they are good or bad. People act like a Sm4sh+ Melee is a bad thing. There's a reason it has so many sponsors and players.

Well the reason Melee gets criticized so much is because it's not really exciting anymore as it's 20XX

 

[92MilesPrower]

So, is Vergeben's "leak" still possible, or is it pretty much dead after confirmation that the embargoed game is that sports game rather than Castlevania? If it's pretty much disconfirmed, then I will happily say THIS IS WHY YOU ALWAYS TAKE THESE THINGS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Well the reason Melee gets criticized so much is because it's not really exciting anymore as it's 20XX

I mean, a Jigglypuff player completely dominated the scene last year, so there's that. Fox is pretty damn strong yes, but he's not ruining the game's competitive scene in the same way that Meta Knight and Bayonetta have previously done, he can still be dealt with, and he at least requires a ton of skill to master.

Melee is still exciting 17 years on, which is pretty damn impressive, I don't really see the need to play it down even if you don't want Ultimate to be like it.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Well let's be fair here, it was the Yoshi trailer after all

Yeah, it was just Yoshi trailer, but he basically acted lke that for every trailers who didn't show much new information he wanted. The Wario one being particular bad since it show his new dash attack & his new f-tilt, yet, Zero complain that the trailer doesn't show anything, compare the trailer to ZSS trailer and how much better it is, and then call Wario trailer garbage.

Again, if he just said that Wario trailer didn't show anything that interested him, I be fine, but he waste too much time on it, and not in a good way mind you.

I honestly would have prefer he just move on quickly to next trailer to keep the pace of the video fresh.

If it weren't for the pro players we would still have tripping, hitstun cancelling, unpunishable airdodging among other degenerative mechanics that ruin casual play as much as competitive. If you watch the Melee pro interviews their opinion is just as valid as that of you and are very civil about it, but **** the top players who understand the game right? The ones who are truly toxic about mechanics are actually casual players who watch the combo videos and don't know what they devil the are talking about.

Woah, chill down a second there.

I didn't say the pro player were the devils and that Sakurai team should take zero (haha) advices from them. Yes, the competitive scene definitly helped the franchise in the long run (tho, the casual fanbase helped alot too, especially about tripping), I agree with that, and like I said, I like that the Smash team is asking helps from the fanbase to make the balance better.

It's just that, pro players are humans like you and me, everything they say aren't 100% right, they can make errors, they are more interested in some characters than others and thus, don't have the same amount of knowedelge that peoples who main those "unpopular" characters does.

Thus, when Zero say things he obviously doesn't know or care enough to pay attention to, it's really infurating since that alot of peoples are listening and following what he is saying, which spread misinformation that could been avoided if Zero just didn't talk about it and move on to something he actually know or care about. Plus, this apply now to the actual dev team, who is taking very seriously what the pro players want.

Since Melee is generally regarded as the most competitif Smash game, who alot of pro players play, they are probably going to tell to the dev team to replicate what Melee did instead of bringing something that could make some of Melee mechanics better, like the new air dodge that have both aspect of Melee air dodge & Brawl/4 airdodge, making it not as harsh as Melee air dodge, but making less safe than Brawl/4 air dodge when trying to go back on the ground, a good balance of the two if you will, that's the kind of change I really like. Heck, if wavedash was to return, I wouldn't mind it tbh, but I like something new along with it, I don't want Ultimate to be just Melee, or just Brawl, or just Smash 4, I want a new game with new mechanics that benefit both casual & pro players.

I'm being frank here, I really want this game to be great, I don't want any side to take control over the other. Which is why I fear at the possibility of pro players taking too much control over the design of the game. 'cuz for all I know, you be right, the pro players could do make the best game ever and I could be totally wrong in 6 months. But as of now, the hint like Zero videos really don't make me too hopeful about it, and I hope Sakurai can find a right balance between casual feedback, pro players feedback & his vision. (because hey, that's his franchise too, he make mistakes yes, but let's not act like players can do no wrong)

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

If there's one thing I don't understand, is why people are so against having proper Wavedashing implemented in the game.

It's called a 'movement option' for a reason.

 

[Zinith]

Yeah, it was just Yoshi trailer

Hey, don't throw shade like that...

 

[Jubileus57]

I got bored so attempted to organise the ultimate characters in order of how excited I am for them in the new game:




ultzelda:

Sounds fun. I'll do that too :


ultshulk:

 

[Metal Shop X]

Hey, don't throw shade like that...

I don't even have shade on me, I don't think they would look good on me tbh.

But don't worry, I like the green dinosaur.

 

[L9999]

I got bored so attempted to organise the ultimate characters in order of how excited I am for them in the new game:

>Da rest

ICs no longer have wobbling to ragequit (RIP) but I just know they have jank and I want to front row to learn it.

I want to play Pichu if he is legit and for the pure disrespect.

DHD is really fun. Can't wait.

Mains because they are the ones that I have the most fun with in S4.

I would need to see the newcomers and play the game to see if anyone else really interests me.

 

[BrytonJ]

I haven't been hanging around here since the weeks following the announcement. I couldn't be happier or more hype about what got shown at E3!! I know this is all old news now but bear with me. I was so nervous about cuts and was totally convinced some of my favs like wii fit were on the chopping block. Could not be happier with the announcement!!!

Plus finally we can have the ultimate rivals duke it out... Snake and Young Link can finally settle their beef once and for all...

On a more constructive note I definitely think we could see another sonic character in this time. I'm not really a sonic fan but there are so many characters it feels like there's gotta be a couple with some really cool moveset potential. Or maybe we won't I guess idk I'm just excited!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't really feel like we need wavedashing, I most certainly wouldn't mind it, but I feel like the new dash is an okay substitute for it that's easier for everyone to use, even if it's not nearly as effective. I would however like wavelanding to have less lag and be able to slip off platforms, the directional air dodge loses a lot of its charm if you can't use it for movement options like that.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Although it's been noted the game is still being worked on. Maybe it's meant to be more powerful, but was bugged. Maybe not.

I'd hope it wasn't too powerful, but still a good ko'ing move.

Considering that the sweetspot for Ridley's tail special dealt as much as 59.3% damage in a 1-on-1 match, that's an absurdly powerful attack for any standard fighter to have. Even Ganondorf's aerial Reverse Warlock Punch doesn't hit THAT hard (dealing 40% damage in Smash Wii U), and it's almost impossible to pull off that attack under normal circumstances.

I have a strong feeling that Ridley's down special will experience a damage nerf, so that way, Ridley would be less likely to make any cheap follow-up KOs after landing the sweetspot.