Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do you think echoes HAVE to be the same size as their counterparts?

They need to share the same basic model, at least.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I'm fine with clones as long as they don't start to clog up the character select screen. Weither you like it or not, a lot of these characters can be alternative costumes and not actual clones filling up slots. Sakurai could easily increase the max limit of costumes per character. Just because Sakurai said there won't be that many newcomers does not mean it's okay to just fill up the character select screen with a bunch of clones. That comes off as lazy and bootleg. Alph is the perfect example on how to do these type of characters. Pretty much I'm against having a bunch of clones filling up an already congested character select screen anyway.

 

[?????????????]

Technically, at least in Smash 4, Lucina is marginally shorter than Marth. Who did you have in mind?

Any other Punch-Out!! character.

I think the main thing that would separate them from Mac would be the size difference, giving them better range and power in exchange for speed and mobility.

...Although plenty of those characters would work as semi-clones anyways. Or just newcomers...not that I think a Punch-Out newcomer would be likely at all.

 

[Slavic]

Any other Punch-Out!! character.

I think the main thing that would separate them from Mac would be the size difference, giving them better range and power in exchange for speed and mobility.

...Although plenty of those characters would work as semi-clones anyways. Or just newcomers...not that I think a Punch-Out newcomer would be likely at all.

Yeah, the other boxers in the series are kinda supposed to contrast with Little Mac's frame, so I could see the issue. He's very statistically opposite a lot of the fighters.

I've actually thought that Hitmonchan would work as a Little Mac Echo near perfectly if you add elemental damage and take away the KO Punch mechanic. Not that I imagine Hitmonchan is remotely on Sakurai's radar. Or anyone's tbh.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Maybe the Space Pirates just have an absurdly large ship for all their gigantic members.

Or maybe...Kraid IS the ship!!

BUT HEY


THAT'S JUST A THEORY

A GAM-

*gets shot*

 

[Tree Gelbman]

They need to share the same basic model, at least.

There's not really necessary any truth to this yet. Daisy has the dress, but her hair is different and the patterns put into her dress are different.

Lucina has similar colors to Marth, but really nothing about her look is similar.

Dark Pit is the closest thing to a true recolor.

 

[?????????????]

Alph is the perfect on how to do these type of characters.

I thought it’d be cool if they took this specific example even further, like add alts for Louie, Brittany, Charlie, and the President.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

There's not really necessary any truth to this yet. Daisy has the dress, but her hair is different and the patterns put into her dress are different.

Lucina has similar colors to Marth, but really nothing about her look is similar.

Dark Pit is the closest thing to a true recolor.

I think they mean the model's skeleton has to match. Every echo fighter we have supports this fact.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's not really necessary any truth to this yet. Daisy has the dress, but her hair is different and the patterns put into her dress are different.

Lucina has similar colors to Marth, but really nothing about her look is similar.

Dark Pit is the closest thing to a true recolor.

Model isn't the same as textures, but I might be wrong anyway. From my understanding, they shared a character model that was modified to make them unique enough. Maybe "basic non-textured model/skeleton" would be a better term. Nyeh, I didn't look much into it, but that's my understanding.

Yeah, what Keyblade said. I very poorly worded that. Sorry about that.

 

[Deleted member]

Ridley would have been more exciting if he wasn’t leaked

It was really exciting for me, because I thought that Ridley had close to a zero percent chance of being a fighter...
I am so happy we got Ridley.

 

[Zinith]

I hope sonic gets a buff

I think Sonic's good the way he was. I'VE been waiting for a top tier Yoshi for half my life now...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm fine with clones as long as they don't start to clog up the character select screen. Weither you like it or not, a lot of these characters can be alternative costumes and not actual clones filling up slots. Sakurai could easily increase the max limit of costumes per character. Just because Sakurai said there won't be that many newcomers does not mean it's okay to just fill up the character select screen with a bunch of clones. That comes off as lazy and bootleg. Alph is the perfect on how to do these type of characters. Pretty much I'm against having a bunch of clones filling up an already congested character select screen anyway.

THIS.

I have a feeling that 'echoes' will be counted as unique slots on the CSS, you know - like Lucy and DP did previously. Which means we have them as a unique opponent in All-Star, and you have to play them to unlock things.

I don't know where everyone's getting this idea of thousands of Echoes just because Sakurai named clones "echo characters" and released one before the game was out. People are now trying to make every possible alt costume into a clone now.

We don't know how many changes Pichu, YL, or Doc had that they may be considered semi-clones at this point - definitely Doc was the least cloney of the clones in Sm4sh since he took Mario's Melee moveset, and now that Link's got some differences, YL will be a semi-clone at best. I'm sure Lucy and DP still act exactly as they did in Sm4sh, (remember, Lucy's hitboxes changed since she didn't have a tipper) but there we called them full clones and we all disliked it. Also, Daisy's taunts and a few of her 'with Toad' animations are slightly different to show a different personality, but otherwise she's the same.

I think most characters people reference as possible echoes are actually possible alt costumes. And for the ones who actually have minor differences, I think there still will be a factor of "is this character relevant enough to justify, or is this just bloating the roster?"

 

[Deleted member]

It was really exciting for me, because I thought that Ridley had close to a zero percent chance of being a fighter...
I am so happy we got Ridley.

The creator himself said that Ridley would be in a smash game but apparently he changed his mind

I think Sonic's good the way he was. I'VE been waiting for a top tier Yoshi for half my life now...

Yoshi can be beast if used correctly

 

[?????????????]

The creator himself said that Ridley would be in a smash game but apparently he changed his mind

Yeah, he’s good at that.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

THIS.

I have a feeling that 'echoes' will be counted as unique slots on the CSS, you know - like Lucy and DP did previously. Which means we have them as a unique opponent in All-Star, and you have to play them to unlock things.

I don't know where everyone's getting this idea of thousands of Echoes just because Sakurai named clones "echo characters" and released one before the game was out. People are now trying to make every possible alt costume into a clone now.

We don't know how many changes Pichu, YL, or Doc had that they may be considered semi-clones at this point - definitely Doc was the least cloney of the clones in Sm4sh since he took Mario's Melee moveset, and now that Link's got some differences, YL will be a semi-clone at best. I'm sure Lucy and DP still act exactly as they did in Sm4sh, (remember, Lucy's hitboxes changed since she didn't have a tipper) but there we called them full clones and we all disliked it. Also, Daisy's taunts and a few of her 'with Toad' animations are slightly different to show a different personality, but otherwise she's the same.

I think most characters people reference as possible echoes are actually possible alt costumes. And for the ones who actually have minor differences, I think there still will be a factor of "is this character relevant enough to justify, or is this just bloating the roster?"

My thoughts exactly. There are very few characters I would count worthy enough to join the battle that I would make into Echo Fighters. Impa, Dixie, and Octoling to be exact.

 

[?????????????]

My thoughts exactly. There are very few characters I would count worthy enough to join the battle that I would make into Echo Fighters. Impa, Dixie, and Octoling to be exact.

I’ve actually really gotten into the Shadow idea.

 

[papagenos]

Personally, I'd like to know how many leakers said Daisy would be playable.

There was a post on 4chan like the day before but thats it.

EDIT: oh and memoryman3 on gamefaqs found some amiibo data pointing to daisy and waddle dee possibly getting more amiibos but that ones kind of up for debate and from a somewhat unreliable source due to bias.

I know it's probably nothing, but I find it odd that on the main website artwork of all the characters, Mr. Saturn is oddly enough in it...?

Someone mentioned the idea of waddle dee replacing mr saturn after waddle dee is revealed (if hes revealed) I thought it was pretty fitting actually feels like something that could happen.

I guess I could see captain toad there too but waddle dee being picked up kinda fits that he was sort of just an item thing before.

or it could just stay mr saturn just cause so who knows.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please don't double post. Edit your messages instead.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I really don't see any reason to put Mr. Saturn there as a place holder. They didn't bother to try to hide the space for Daisy or Ridley and then you can clearly see the open space after the fact of the matter of them being revealed.

Mr. Saturn means nothing. It's probably just the artist's little easter egg.

Did they even say who drew that beautiful piece of artwork yet?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I’ve actually really gotten into the Shadow idea.

Maybe it's just my OCD but I personally would rather keep third party franchises to one rep each (only exception I would be happy with is Tails.)

 

[CaptainAmerica]

For me, I don't know which echoes I'd like. I would hope K.Rool is in, so Dixie-the-Diddy-echo seems plausible, but it is a bit of a disservice to her. Still between her and the Kroc, there's no contest who I'd rather have.

Impa as a Sheik echo or Chrom as an Ike echo would both be cool, especially since Impa's one of the few recurring Zelda characters and Chrom was treated pretty harshly last round, but I'm not going to go out campaigning for either.

The one I'd like to see would be Tails as a Sonic echo. I know everyone keeps saying Shadow, but I'm not a fan of the late-90s "let's make everything super edgy Sonic goes to Hot Topic" motif that we already got with DP. Tails was always Sonic's player two, and I used him exclusively in my first video game ever (Sonic 2). I wouldn't want Tails to be too different from Sonic in the first place, but adding a Peach-esque hover from his tail would be a perfect difference for me. I do think Tails has the clout to be a character on his own, but I would like to see most of his moves shared with Sonic since that's how he started.

 

[?????????????]

Did they even say who drew that beautiful piece of artwork yet?

I want the finished product for my house.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I want the finished product for my house.

I hope they continue to update it after every character reveal. Just to see how more crazy and filled it gets.

 

[Deleted member]

Is Steve from minecraft a possibility for a character at all

 

[Shroob]

I really don't see any reason to put Mr. Saturn there as a place holder. They didn't bother to try to hide the space for Daisy or Ridley and then you can clearly see the open space after the fact of the matter of them being revealed.

Mr. Saturn means nothing. It's probably just the artist's little easter egg.

Did they even say who drew that beautiful piece of artwork yet?

Would not be surprised if they didn't say.

Knowing the internet, they'd hound the hell out of the artist trying to get more information.

 

[?????????????]

Is Steve from minecraft a possibility for a character at all

He meets all the requisites.

 

[N3ON]

This just in: troll with large ego thinks he fooled us (even though I recall the very first reply being along the lines of "nice try") while misrepresenting our opinion of Vergeben to the leaker who promptly laughs at him, reaffirms he has no Smashboards account, and shares troll's message instead of playing along as he wanted.

Good stuff.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

This person just came across as someone who wanted to discredit vergeben in a really rude way. If vergeben had said yes, he'd probably have just turned on him.

Good on vergeben for exposing him instead. Lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Peppa Pig in Super Smash Bros ultimate confirmed she will use her fat shame attack on anyone old enough to be a dad and her charge move is idiotic tantrum every time she gets hit this move gets stronger and George will be a assist trophy and he will just throw his dinosaur

 

[Slavic]

Back on the topic of the poll... the numbers have shifted and we're now almost at half the participants expecting over 10 and half expecting 10 or under newcomers. When I first voted in that poll, the numbers were waaaay different, and it was something like 40 to 50% just for 13+ iirc.

 

[papagenos]

Maybe it's just my OCD but I personally would rather keep third party franchises to one rep each (only exception I would be happy with is Tails.)

this.

i feel people are over estimating echo characters just cause they have a name now. we should probably treat them like they were before and not expect very many.

i also dont think if say dixie gets in theyd make her an echo, shed be like dr mario similar but different, the way she'd have always been handled whether we had a name for clones or not.

i dont think they will force echo characters its just that they wanted to bring everyone back and that meant bringing back the controversial dark pit/lucina and then added a fan favorite, daisy, but thought she "fit" best as a peach clone... so they came up with a name and acknowledged it and even went so far as to number the fighters so when they say there is "66 fighters" they specifically arent counting the echos so its not like these "clones" are making the roster insincerely large.

then you have a bunch of possible third party echos but i feel third parties are an honorary guest position and they wont just add shadow/ken/ms pacman/jeanna etc... just cause they can, it diminishes and cheapens the importance it takes for a third party character to get in and it bloats that part of the roster. i do not expect it although i hear a lot of people talking about it.

finally i think the "echo hype" is similar to when a new switch game gets announced and everyone suddenly starts saying a character from that game is now likely in smash. i saw it happen with the crash n sane trilogy and dark souls and a few other games. I think thats just timing clouding peoples judgement and the same thing is happening here, just because we finally got a name for clone characters doesnt mean its going to be a huge part of this game, it will probably be the same as its always been and i dont expect many more and i certainly dont expect sakurai to choose characters simply because they CAN be echos and therefore easy to make.

he'll choose characters the way he always does and he might add an echo or two, i could see chrom cause he was highly demanded and almost choosen so this would be a good way to get him in easily, not choosing him cause he can be an echo but choosing him cause he was sort of teased and almost in last time and its a way to make it happen. impa if the fan demand is there enough i think is another good one but the zelda series might have enough love already as so many characters got redesigns. I'm not betting on many others like dark samus i assume is just an assist trophy and due to assist trophies being able to be K.O.'d they removed samus' dark alt colors to avoid confusion. and again i dont think third party echos will happen and i think characters like dixie will just be semi-clones as those still exist and she's always fit best as a semi-clone and not a complete echo of diddy.

just my feelings on echo characters and everyone guessing at them, i expect one maybe two more tops.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The poll overall is still accurate to the question. It's new characters. So far, we have literally 3. And likely a lot more coming, but not an extreme amount.

Nonetheless, until the game releases, not much reason to update the poll, imo. Unless they reveal all the base game newcomers early on?

 

[Shroob]

The real Verg says in that thread that whatever Konami showed behind closed doors is embargoed until Wednesday.

Have we actually heard of what it was?

 

[Deleted member]

The poll overall is still accurate to the question. It's new characters. So far, we have literally 3. And likely a lot more coming, but not an extreme amount.

Nonetheless, until the game releases, not much reason to update the poll, imo. Unless they reveal all the base game newcomers early on?

He did say not to expect a lot of new characters

 

[Tree Gelbman]

A large chunk of voters still expect 13+.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He say not to expect a lot of new characters

He said something similar for 4 too. We got over 20 characters overall.

I'm still thinking in the 10-14 range.

Also going to change my vote since I thought the game was legitimately going to be an enhanced port ala Splatoon 2.

 

[papagenos]

A large chunk of voters still expect 13+.

I'm surprised people still expect 13+ sakurai said dont expect many and we already have 3, im guessing at 7 more (10 total) and even then i think im being hopeful.

 

[Deleted member]

He said something similar for 4 too. We got over 20 characters overall.

I'm still thinking in the 10-14 range.

Also going to change my vote since I thought the game was legitimately going to be an enhanced port ala Splatoon 2.

I am expecting 5-7 range

 

[Shroob]

The real Verg in that thread also says there's 'about half a dozen reveals left'

Now I have to wonder, if he only knows of Simon and potential Minecraft stuff, how would he know there's 'about half a dozen' left?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The real Verg in that thread also says there's 'about half a dozen reveals left'

Now I have to wonder, if he only knows of Simon and potential Minecraft stuff, how would he know there's 'about half a dozen' left?

I'm calling "he doesn't" or "he got new information".

Pretty sure Gematsu came in multiple parts, so this could be a similar case.

Can't wait till Wednesday, that said. Typically I work that day. >.<