Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KingBroly]

And here is the 4chan leak from Monday

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Tomorrow .....

I'm Hype



Cause tomorrow I get my braces off

 

[StrangeMann]

And here is the 4chan leak from Monday

There was also a gamefaqs leak the same day that got pretty much the entire floor right.

Spoiler

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76696004?page=6

 

[KingBroly]

There was also a gamefaqs leak the same day that got pretty much the entire floor right.

Spoiler

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76696004?page=6

I posted something on the last page that was from April. Not sure if that's what that is, because it gives me an error

 

[Zerp]

This is like memoryman and his army of alt accounts all over again.

And here is the 4chan leak from Monday

Hilarious how everyone said this one was fake and it got no attention, yet it was the legitimate one. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Anyway, those whole hindsight/etc. thing is blatantly not going anywhere and I'm going to drop it. I don't believe for one second Ridley was an obvious pick, and no tons of leaks will make me think so. Let's keep it at that.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Again.

No a group of individuals on the internet saying Ridley is unlikely.

Did. Not. Make. Him. Unlikely.

Even Sakurai saying he was unlikely didn't really make him unlikely for this game. It meant he was explaining to people why he didn't work the last few games. Nothing more.

And to take that as gospel as most people did was the wrong thing to do. That's the problem with speculation in general for the most part. There's only gospel. Not possibilities.

And that's what you seem to be missing. You're sticking to things as gospel. Not opening your mind to possibilities. There was ALWAYS the possibility Ridley was coming.

The only reason Sakurai even had to make his prior statements against Ridley is because of the sheer fan demand and having to explain why he'd either neither attempted to make him a fighter or why he felt it didn't work at the time. Not why he didn't work forever.

That's the problem I'm saying is fundamentally wrong with taking statements as facts that can't change. It's just acting as if it's gospel and not open to any interpretation or other possibilities.

 

[DarkFalcon]

If fan demand really does help characters get added, then I need to recruit more people into the Fawful camp.

Heh. I think Ridley was a more special case. After nearly 2 decades of speculation and wants, Sakurai finally caved in and got him to work. I doubt any other potential Smash newcomer will come close to the Ridley phenomenon.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Ok, we've talked to death about Vergeben, any word from Emily, Liam, Laura, or any other of those high profile leakers? I recall Emily said something about knowing the roster and she said many people would be happy with it. Has their been any follow up to that? I'm just starting to get tired of vergeben since it's starting up all of these needless arguments.

 

[StrangeMann]

Anyway, those whole hindsight/etc. thing is blatantly not going anywhere and I'm going to drop it. I don't believe for one second Ridley was an obvious pick, and no tons of leaks will make me think so. Let's keep it at that.

Oh, no worries. I completely agree with you in that he was a huge shock for people who didn't believe the vergeben/resetera leaks.
If ResetEra mods and vergeben had never said anything, I would have never thought him as a possibility and it would have been a huge shock. But both have had a rocky history and their words were never gospel. Even now a lot of people don't think Vergeben is right. In some ways, it's a bit unfortunate I considered it a possibility because this happened even though a lot of other people didn't.

Hindsight is 20/20, there's no way people thought seriously daisy and ridley would both be the newcomers shown off. I bet this is going to happen again and no one is going to believe it (unless leakers are proven to be reputable and put the ball forward again). It's just going to be a long wait these next 6 months. It's going to be nerve wracking but enjoyable to see people speculate over the leftovers of such a massive roster for sure and I can't wait to see what's next.

Ok, we've talked to death about Vergeben, any word from Emily, Liam, Laura, or any other of those high profile leakers? I recall Emily said something about knowing the roster and she said many people would be happy with it. Has their been any follow up to that? I'm just starting to get tired of vergeben since it's starting up all of these needless arguments.

We know that MasterofHyrule and Emily Rogers both recieved legitimate leaks of sorts.
We know Emily knew ahead of time because of the "Ultimate smash bros" (hinting to Smash Bros ultimate), expecting no cuts, and a roster that would make a lot of people happy.
The master of Hyrule battlefield leak was also proven to be legitimate when we saw the in-game battlefield.
Please do not pester these people for information, as we've not heard anymore information from them about the game since the announcements.

 

[masterluigi1]

Again.

No a group of individuals on the internet saying Ridley is unlikely.

Did. Not. Make. Him. Unlikely.

Even Sakurai saying he was unlikely didn't really make him unlikely for this game. It meant he was explaining to people why he didn't work the last few games. Nothing more.

And to take that as gospel as most people did was the wrong thing to do. That's the problem with speculation in general for the most part. There's only gospel. Not possibilities.

And that's what you seem to be missing. You're sticking to things as gospel. Not opening your mind to possibilities. There was ALWAYS the possibility Ridley was coming.

The only reason Sakurai even had to make his prior statements against Ridley is because of the sheer fan demand and having to explain why he'd either neither attempted to make him a fighter or why he felt it didn't work at the time. Not why he didn't work forever.

That's the problem I'm saying is fundamentally wrong with taking statements as facts that can't change. It's just acting as if it's gospel and not open to any interpretation or other possibilities.

what does that have to do with the fact that ridley was still an unsafe choice for most people. not many people after sakurais statements on smash4 thought he was very likely.
Whether or not he was in actualality likely has nothing to do with the general perception.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Heh. I think Ridley was a more special case. After nearly 2 decades of speculation and wants, Sakurai finally caved in and got him to work. I doubt any other potential Smash newcomer will come close to the Ridley phenomenon.

Too true. Takamaru didn't help(though to be fair, didn't Sakurai actually say "when he gets a new game?" way beforehand? He never got a new game, so him sticking to what he said is possible. Though most likely, he probably didn't have ideas on how to make him playable at this time).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Further proof of everyone takes Sakurai's word for gospel and not something that can potentially change?

That newcomers quote that's happening right now. It's a pretty good example actually. Now you have people sure there's 2 newcomers, 5 newcomers, 9 newcomers. However many amount is ''low" for them.

And not taking into the fact only Sakurai knows how many ''too many" is. And that's from the mouth of a many who pushes himself consistently to get a ton of content into each game. So there's really no way to actually know what he meant there, but now people are sure of a certain set number.

what does that have to do with the fact that ridley was still an unsafe choice for most people. not many people after sakurais statements on smash4 thought he was very likely.
Whether or not he was in actualality likely has nothing to do with the general perception.

Wow. Do you two just really not get it? It's proof full proof that those people's perceptions on a character's likelyhood do not reflect their actual likelyhood.

And that's what you both seem to be arguing, when it could not be further from the truth.

Either way I'm moving on. I've said my piece on this subject and I'm just talking in circles at this point.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I mean....that's the point of speculation. Talking about who WE think is likely or not.

 

[masterluigi1]

Further proof of everyone takes Sakurai's word for gospel and not something that can potentially change?

That newcomers quote that's happening right now. It's a pretty good example actually. Now you have people sure there's 2 newcomers, 5 newcomers, 9 newcomers. However many amount is ''low" for them.

And not taking into the fact only Sakurai knows how many ''too many" is. And that's from the mouth of a many who pushes himself consistently to get a ton of content into each game. So there's really no way to actually know what he meant there, but now people are sure of a certain set number.

seems like you're arguing an entirely different point now. All im saying that ridley was an unsafe bet for someone to leak.

if someone were to say that there was 20+ more newcomers after what sakurai specificaly said, that would be an unsafe prediction.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean....that's the point of speculation. Talking about who WE think is likely or not.

True, but subjectivity should always be a strong suit, however it is not.

Otherwise you end up with egg on your face. Or a shocked expression. When thinking outside of the box from time to time and entertaining the opposite view and not just sticking your fingers in your ears can make speculation far more fun and engaging.

I mean heck I'm even guilty of it from time to time though. There's a certain princess in an orange dress that I distinctly remember arguing strongly against and yet now there she is in my avatar and signature.

seems like you're arguing an entirely different point now.

And yet. I absolutely am not. Every single post has been the same point over and over. But I digress. Done with the subject.

 

[Skyblade12]

You missed my point. Ridley was absolutely seen heavily as not happening but a crapload of people. He was not an easy guess. At all. For most. And yes, RTC does prove he was not an easy guess as well. It means many thought he had little to no chance. It doesn't matter if it's a somewhat small sample pool, because it proves he was a clearly mixed likelihood. That's the point you're missing.

Of course things change. But not everything does. Patterns don't hold up either, as proven before. And so on. It's still too hard to see how Ridley was a safe guess when he clearly was not one to begin with. Take away all those leaks? People would barely talk about him. A huge amount of people thought he wouldn't happen, while others simply hoped he would.


It was a pretty huge stretch, honestly. Again, pure hindsight. I didn't see him coming, and I thought he was a lock in Brawl and 4. Sakurai's statement made it clear his chances were crap. You know who else was a safe guess? Wolf in 4. Didn't happen.

Different people look for different things.

One big one: Who else would it have been? Lip? Sorry, but Nintendo is running out of big name stars and they can’t keep pushing off some of their most well known characters. K. Rool might not be “relevant”, but his games sold millions and he has heavy fan backing, far more than anyone else left, including Dixie. He’ll get in.

Two: Sakurai’s effort. The fact that Sakurai addresses him multiple times meant that those statements weren’t placating fans. And Smash is a game for the fans. You think it made him less likely, I actually think it made him more likely.

Three: Every game in the Smash franchise has had more and more work put into Ridley. This is indicative not just of what he means to the fans and Sakurai, but that serious efforts were being made.

Etcetera.

This wasn’t “hindsight”. This was my logic going in.

None of this mattered to you. You still weren’t expecting him at all. That doesn’t impact my assessment of his likelihood, though.

If RTC comes back today and says that K. Rool has a 3% chance of showing up, I’ll go on 4chan and “leak” that he’s coming. Because my own assessment is that he is definitely going to be there. Everyone else’s logic concluding differently just means I’ll get more praise when my “source” is correct.

And, like Virgerble, I’ll have multiple “sources”. Elma will be told to me by another source who’s had a good track record but isn’t quite as strong, so I don’t trust him quite as much.

It’s amazing how easy it is to turn a list of expectations into a multi tiered “leak” based just on logic and making your most likely guesses from the most trusted “sources”.

 

[SirCamp]

Further proof of everyone takes Sakurai's word for gospel and not something that can potentially change?

Obviously his opinion can change and things are never set in stone. But what he has said about development in the past is literally the only information we have to go on. I mean what else would you even use as the basis for any sort of speculation?

Ridley was not a safe bet, but that doesn't mean people didn't think he was possible. It just means the only concrete information we had access to (regardless of how out of date) led people to believe he was unlikely. That seems reasonable to me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That said, I hope we get a demo for Smash Ultimate everywhere. I'd love to try it out on my new Switch~

Not that Mario + Rabbids is bad. (though the fact Shaq Fu: A Legend Reborn was sold out is kind of funny)

 

[Skyblade12]

That said, I hope we get a demo for Smash Ultimate everywhere. I'd love to try it out on my new Switch~

Not that Mario + Rabbids is bad. (though the fact Shaq Fu: A Legend Reborn was sold out is kind of funny)

Who would be in the demo? The E3 roster?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Obviously his opinion can change and things are never set in stone. But what he has said about development in the past is literally the only information we have to go on. I mean what else would you even use as the basis for any sort of speculation?

Ridley was not a safe bet, but that doesn't mean people didn't think he was possible. It just means the only concrete information we had access to (regardless of how out of date) led people to believe he was unlikely. That seems reasonable to me.

When Sakurai has pulled the ''Here's a statement" and then ''Here's the counter of this statement." quite a few times? Villager, Ridley, the many times each game has been his last game, Miis not being fighters, etc, etc.

It goes from being reasonable to being ''Gee. I don't understand how this keeps happening. He said the thing and then he did the opposite of the thing."

And it just becomes silly to take everything he says at ONLY face value.

 

[Zinith]

Who would be in the demo? The E3 roster?

Probably a LOT less, like the 3DS demo that had only 5 (Mario, Link, Pikachu, Villager and Mega Man)

On that topic, I found it odd that Kirby wasn't in that demo. He's meant to be a fighter for beginners

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

And here is the 4chan leak from Monday

After reading over the leak, it mentions Lucas being an Echo character and the Inklings Final Smash being the Squid Sisters. While this is true, some of it is false information, likely due to assumptions on the leaker's part. This doesn't mean much, but it was an interesting observation to me.

 

[Shroob]

Imagine the ****storm that would happen if somehow the E3 demo got dumped online and, like soo many companies in the present, all the game's assets were pre-loaded onto it, just unused.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

And here is the 4chan leak from Monday

"All maps have final destination and omega layout"

boi ain't that the same thing

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Who would be in the demo? The E3 roster?

It depends when released. The e3 demo was very buggy, so probably not Bayonetta. It might be a later build, with more costumes and such.

I just hope it doesn't have the really stupid "can only play this amount of times" crap. Let people have fun, damnit.

 

[Whababa]

Saw this on reddit and thought people would appreciate it here.

"Nod to subspace"

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It's also funny to me that it's selective of which of his words get taken at face value. For example? Someone earlier argued against Geno, but yet here we are with a direct quote from Sakurai saying he's considered him, wanted him in the game, he has moveset potential and when he went to Square Enix to get Cloud for fans. He directly asked for Geno as a costume.

That? That doesn't get taken at face value. That's when you guys get subjective and entertain the other possibility. It's so weird to me.

I mean sure there are things that could keep Geno from happening. That guy was right, but it was very clearly a case of ''Sakurai said this sure, BUT..."

But other times everything is face value and nothing else is even remotely entertained.

 

[Hinata]

Probably a LOT less, like the 3DS demo that had only 5 (Mario, Link, Pikachu, Villager and Mega Man)

On that topic, I found it odd that Kirby wasn't in that demo. He's meant to be a fighter for beginners

My bet would be on Mario, Link, Pikachu, Inkling, Ridley for a public demo.

 

[DarkFalcon]

The worst thing about Ultimate is Samus didn't get her Samus Returns suit.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Oh, no worries. I completely agree with you in that he was a huge shock for people who didn't believe the vergeben/resetera leaks.
If ResetEra mods and vergeben had never said anything, I would have never thought him as a possibility and it would have been a huge shock. But both have had a rocky history and their words were never gospel. Even now a lot of people don't think Vergeben is right. In some ways, it's a bit unfortunate I considered it a possibility because this happened even though a lot of other people didn't.

Hindsight is 20/20, there's no way people thought seriously daisy and ridley would both be the newcomers shown off. I bet this is going to happen again and no one is going to believe it (unless leakers are proven to be reputable and put the ball forward again). It's just going to be a long wait these next 6 months. It's going to be nerve wracking but enjoyable to see people speculate over the leftovers of such a massive roster for sure and I can't wait to see what's next.



We know that MasterofHyrule and Emily Rogers both recieved legitimate leaks of sorts.
We know Emily knew ahead of time because of the "Ultimate smash bros" (hinting to Smash Bros ultimate), expecting no cuts, and a roster that would make a lot of people happy.
The master of Hyrule battlefield leak was also proven to be legitimate when we saw the in-game battlefield.
Please do not pester these people for information, as we've not heard anymore information from them about the game since the announcements.

Got a link to the master of Hyrule leak?

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, to me, Ridley was always the unobtainable carrot on a stick, always right in front of me(Subspace, Pyrosphere), but unobtainable.

Now that I finally got the carrot, I'm not sure what else I could ask for.

Geno still seems like a tall ask but, I can't rule out the possibility this time, frankly. If Capcom can have 2 representatives, and potentially Konami as well, I see zero reason why Geno couldn't come in as a weird Mario 3rd Party hybrid.

 

[StrangeMann]

Got a link to the master of Hyrule leak?

https://www.twitter.com/Master0fHyrule/status/988856846487359490
https://www.twitter.com/Master0fHyrule/status/989114143524442112
was here but got deleted by nintendo ninjas?

 

[Aeronite's Kiseki]

I know it's probably nothing, but I find it odd that on the main website artwork of all the characters, Mr. Saturn is oddly enough in it...?

 

[L9999]

Oh so I can watch him stroke his own ego some more? No thanks

At least he talks about the game and disproves the mob mentality of "Smash 4 .5." What are you doing? Wasting your damn time with rumors and red herrings. Sakurai could tweet about breakfast and you lunatics would all go ape**** over it. What about the frame data? What about the tech, or the characters? Not important enough? We rather pay attention to "leaks?"

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, as likable as Adventure Mode is...
Subspace would fit better in Ultimate.
Like, EVERYONE IS HERE!

 

[Shroob]

At least he talks about the game and disproves the mob mentality of "Smash 4 .5." What are you doing? Wasting your damn time with rumors and red herrings. Sakurai could tweet about breakfast and you lunatics would all go ape**** over it. What about the frame data? What about the tech, or the characters? Not important enough? We rather pay attention to "leaks?"

Honestly, yes.

We can't even play the game, and it's still a build that's subject to change, so what's in the demo isn't 100% accurrate of a final product.

Leaks, even the ****ty ones, are fun, because they can kill time.

When the game actually comes out and is in its final build, then is the time to talk about frame data and delay.

 

[Arcadenik]

If fan demand really does help characters get added, then I need to recruit more people into the Fawful camp.

I’m trying to recruit more people to join Team Rocket.

Poor Meowth.

 

[The Animator]

I know it's probably nothing, but I find it odd that on the main website artwork of all the characters, Mr. Saturn is oddly enough in it...?

Its being carried by Pikmin because that's what they do. I doubt it means anything.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Honestly, as likable as Adventure Mode is...
Subspace would fit better in Ultimate.
Like, EVERYONE IS HERE!

I might be in the minority but I prefer a Melee style Adventure mode over a new Subspace. Mainly because producing all those CGI scenes must take a lot of time to make. If that time can be put in some other mode I'd take that any day.